If there is no such thing as a sourdough Ciabatta bread, what other
sourdough Italian type bread would go well with homemade 'pasta e fagioli'?

OldGreyBob wrote:
> If there is no such thing as a sourdough Ciabatta bread, what other
> sourdough Italian type bread would go well with homemade 'pasta e fagioli'?

Look in Nancy Silverton's "Breads from the La Brea Bakery" There you
will find a recipe for a sourdough ciabatta but it does contain
commercial yeast. It will also take a few iterations to tune it to
your liking.

Doc

Hello "OldGreyBob" & all;

"OldGreyBob" > wrote in message
...
> If there is no such thing as a sourdough Ciabatta bread, what
> other
No such thing?? I beg to differ (:-o)!

Try: http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm
and have at it... Been making good Ciabatta with it for years...


Enjoy!
Dusty
....

Thanks for the link. I only thing I don't have is Durham flour. Going to
try it this weekend.
BTW, since I have not used Durham, what other uses does it have?

"Dusty Bleher" > wrote in message
...
> Hello "OldGreyBob" & all;
>
> "OldGreyBob" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If there is no such thing as a sourdough Ciabatta bread, what other
> No such thing?? I beg to differ (:-o)!
>
> Try: http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm and
> have at it... Been making good Ciabatta with it for years...
>
>
> Enjoy!
> Dusty
> ...
>

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:27:24 -0500, "OldGreyBob"
> wrote:

>Thanks for the link. I only thing I don't have is Durham flour. Going to
>try it this weekend.
>BTW, since I have not used Durham, what other uses does it have?

Howdy,

(It's "Durum"), but that said...

It is super high in protein. It is used mostly for noodles
and pasta etc.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Dusty Bleher wrote:
> Try: http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm
> and have at it... Been making good Ciabatta with it for years...

Dusty,

What I don't see in the referenced recipe is a step that creates the
stitches that keep the dough from forming a single large bubble and
looking like a football. I have always found it necessary to press a
floured finger all the way through the dough on (about) 2" centers both
before the final proof and again (in the same holes) just before it
goes into the oven. But my dough does have a small amount of commercial
instant yeast (1/2 t in 1 Kg of 75% hydration dough).

Do you not need to do it (perhaps because you are using stretch and
fold) or am I missing something?

Doc

Hello "OldGreyBob" & all;

"OldGreyBob" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the link. I only thing I don't have is Durham flour.
> Going to try it this weekend.
> BTW, since I have not used Durham, what other uses does it have?
Well, I can't get "Durham" ('Durum'--thanks Kenneth!) flour by name
either, so I use 'Semolina'...the same stuff as used for pasta. Far
as I know it's the same stuff. In any event, it works superbly!


Enjoy!
Dusty
....

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:39:05 -0700, "Dusty Bleher"
> wrote:

>Hello "OldGreyBob" & all;
>
>"OldGreyBob" > wrote in message
...
>> Thanks for the link. I only thing I don't have is Durham flour.
>> Going to try it this weekend.
>> BTW, since I have not used Durham, what other uses does it have?
>Well, I can't get "Durham" ('Durum'--thanks Kenneth!) flour by name
>either, so I use 'Semolina'...the same stuff as used for pasta. Far
>as I know it's the same stuff. In any event, it works superbly!
>
>
>Enjoy!
>Dusty
>...
>

Hi Dusty,

It is my understanding that Durum and Semolina are the same,
but that one is ground finer than the other (and no, I can't
remember which it is...<g>)

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Hi Kenneth, good to hear from you again...(:-o)!

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
....
>>Well, I can't get "Durham" ('Durum'--thanks Kenneth!) flour by
>>name
>>either, so I use 'Semolina'...the same stuff as used for pasta.
>>Far
>>as I know it's the same stuff. In any event, it works superbly!
....
> It is my understanding that Durum and Semolina are the same,
> but that one is ground finer than the other (and no, I can't
> remember which it is...<g>)
I'd "heard" that as well. As far as I can tell, the Semolina is
more coarse than what's typical for "flour". But, like I said, it
seems to work well in my recipes--and it seems to be all I can find
locally that's made from Durum wheat, so I use it as if it was just
what the doctor ordered...(:-o)!

Maybe one of these days I'll run across some "real" Durum flour and
I'll get a chance to test that theory in actual practice. I keep
looking, but I've not found any just yet.

At the moment I'm zeroing in on the "why" my heretofore faithful SD
critters aren't doing their proper job in my Jewish Rye
(http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br.../RyeBread.htm).
After years of doing it well
(http://www.innerlodge.com/pix/Bread/index.htm#JRloaf) it seems to
have taken a turn towards "the dark side" and only seems willing to
make JR hockey pucks! It makes my other breads apparently well
enough, but won't give my JR any loft of note.

I think the problem is that, through neglect (due to travel), I'd
allowed my culture to transform to where it yielded an acetone
smell. While I went through the motions and thought I'd "fixed" it,
it seems that such is not the case. I'm going through the process
of resurrecting an older sample--hopefully taken *before* that
happened--to see if that 'solves' my problem. I'd read (in this
August news group) that such an eventuality is hard or even
impossible to cure...and that one should start over.

I'll let y'all know what happens...


L8r all,
Dusty -- somewhat east of Everett, Wa. at the moment...


>
> All the best,
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Dusty Bleher wrote:
> Well, I can't get "Durham" ('Durum'--thanks Kenneth!) flour by name
> either, so I use 'Semolina'...the same stuff as used for pasta. Far
> as I know it's the same stuff. In any event, it works superbly!

Look for chapati flour at your local south asian market. This is a
fairly fine durum flour with a little bit of fine bran added back, not
like whole wheat flour from which you can sift out most of the bran,
and not nearly as much bran. This should work find if you can't find
durum flour.

Doc

Dusty Bleher wrote:
> Hello "OldGreyBob" & all;
>
> "OldGreyBob" > wrote in message
> ...
> > If there is no such thing as a sourdough Ciabatta bread, what
> > other
> No such thing?? I beg to differ (:-o)!
>
> Try: http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm
> and have at it... Been making good Ciabatta with it for years...
>
>
> Enjoy!
> Dusty
> ...

I attempted this recipe this weekend and it does not seem to have a
very high hydration factor-- the resulting dough was stiff, not slack
like a slipper should be. Although maybe I was "slack" somehow and
made an error somwhere along the way.

--keven.

Hello Keven & all;

"--keven." > wrote in message
ups.com...
....
>> Try:
>> http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm
>> and have at it... Been making good Ciabatta with it for years...
....
> I attempted this recipe this weekend and it does not seem to have
> a
> very high hydration factor-- the resulting dough was stiff, not
> slack
> like a slipper should be. Although maybe I was "slack" somehow
> and
> made an error somwhere along the way.
I've been making this for some time, and it's always worked well. I
often update or modify my recipes as I learn things or figure
something new out. I may well have made a change correctly on my
working copy and then incorrectly changed the on-line copy. I'll
give it another lash in a few days and see what's up with it...

In any event, how did it turn out?

BTW; thanks for taking the time to let me know there might be a
problem with one of my recipes.


Take care all,
Dusty -- east of Everett, Wa. for the moment...

Dusty Bleher wrote:
> Hello Keven & all;
>
> "--keven." > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> ...
> >> Try:
> >> http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm
> >> and have at it... Been making good Ciabatta with it for years...
> ...
> > I attempted this recipe this weekend and it does not seem to have
> > a
> > very high hydration factor-- the resulting dough was stiff, not
> > slack
> > like a slipper should be. Although maybe I was "slack" somehow
> > and
> > made an error somwhere along the way.
> I've been making this for some time, and it's always worked well. I
> often update or modify my recipes as I learn things or figure
> something new out. I may well have made a change correctly on my
> working copy and then incorrectly changed the on-line copy. I'll
> give it another lash in a few days and see what's up with it...
>
> In any event, how did it turn out?
>
> BTW; thanks for taking the time to let me know there might be a
> problem with one of my recipes.
>
>
> Take care all,
> Dusty -- east of Everett, Wa. for the moment...

Well the bread turned out great. So the recipe is a good one, but I
guess just not the ciabatta I was aiming for. I also read your
recommendations for the different treatments of the crust and decided
to spray the loaves. I kept a wet towell on the loaves as they
proofed. It turned into some of the best crust I've made, thin and
crunchy.

Hello "--keven." & all;

"--keven." > wrote in message
oups.com...
....
>> In any event, how did it turn out?
....
> Well the bread turned out great. So the recipe is a good one, but
> I
> guess just not the ciabatta I was aiming for. I also read your
> recommendations for the different treatments of the crust and
> decided
> to spray the loaves. I kept a wet towell on the loaves as they
> proofed. It turned into some of the best crust I've made, thin
> and
> crunchy.
Interesting. Thanks. I've never tried a "wet towel" on a loaf
before. Can you elaborate just what & how you do that? Every time
I've had anything touch the loaf--if it wasn't slathered in
flour--it stuck!

If ya could, 'splain to me how & with what you do it...and I'll
recheck that recipe & see if I can figure out where I went astray...


Regards all,
Dusty

I too made it over the weekend with a San Fran starter culture growing
happily in 100% whole wheat. The bread was fantastic in taste, in crust,
and in crumb. I may not be the ideal ciabatta but it is an excellent bread
in its own right. I just plain loved it.

Since I bake only every other week, I was just wondering how well do you
think the bread freezes?

"--keven." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Dusty Bleher wrote:
>> Hello Keven & all;
>>
>> "--keven." > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> ...
>> >> Try:
>> >> http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm
>> >> and have at it... Been making good Ciabatta with it for years...
>> ...
>> > I attempted this recipe this weekend and it does not seem to have
>> > a
>> > very high hydration factor-- the resulting dough was stiff, not
>> > slack
>> > like a slipper should be. Although maybe I was "slack" somehow
>> > and
>> > made an error somwhere along the way.
>> I've been making this for some time, and it's always worked well. I
>> often update or modify my recipes as I learn things or figure
>> something new out. I may well have made a change correctly on my
>> working copy and then incorrectly changed the on-line copy. I'll
>> give it another lash in a few days and see what's up with it...
>>
>> In any event, how did it turn out?
>>
>> BTW; thanks for taking the time to let me know there might be a
>> problem with one of my recipes.
>>
>>
>> Take care all,
>> Dusty -- east of Everett, Wa. for the moment...
>
> Well the bread turned out great. So the recipe is a good one, but I
> guess just not the ciabatta I was aiming for. I also read your
> recommendations for the different treatments of the crust and decided
> to spray the loaves. I kept a wet towell on the loaves as they
> proofed. It turned into some of the best crust I've made, thin and
> crunchy.
>

--keven. wrote:
http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm
>
> I attempted this recipe (http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm) this weekend and it does not seem to have a very high hydration factor-- the resulting dough was stiff, not slack like a slipper should be. Although maybe I was "slack" somehow and made an error somwhere along the way.
>
> --keven.

Keven,
It looks OK to me. Somewhere between 75% and 82% hydration depending
on how much your "cup" of flour weighs. The calculation below assumes
flour weighs 3.75 oz/cup.

Liquid Flour
(cups) (cups)
0.125 0.125
1.000
0.250
1.000
0.250
0.750
2.500
0.750
total(c) 1.875 4.875
oz/cup 8 3.75
total(oz)15.000 18.28

hydration 82%


Cheers,
Doc

Doc wrote:
> OldGreyBob wrote:
>
>> If there is no such thing as a sourdough Ciabatta bread, what other
>> sourdough Italian type bread would go well with homemade 'pasta e fagioli'?
>>
>
> Look in Nancy Silverton's "Breads from the La Brea Bakery" There you
> will find a recipe for a sourdough ciabatta but it does contain
> commercial yeast. It will also take a few iterations to tune it to
> your liking.
>
>
Or you could look at http://www.sourdoughhome.com/ciabatta.html

Mike

Mike Avery wrote:
> Or you could look at http://www.sourdoughhome.com/ciabatta.html

Mike,
Looks interesting, I would like to have a 100% sourdough ciabatta in my
repertoire. The author says that they weigh the ingredients - do you
know what the weights should be? Or perhaps you could give us your
version with ingredient weights included. I would like to reduce the
required iterations by one or two.

Doc

Doc wrote:
> Mike Avery wrote:
>
>> Or you could look at http://www.sourdoughhome.com/ciabatta.html
>>
>
> Mike,
> Looks interesting, I would like to have a 100% sourdough ciabatta in my
> repertoire. The author says that they weigh the ingredients - do you
> know what the weights should be? Or perhaps you could give us your
> version with ingredient weights included. I would like to reduce the
> required iterations by one or two.
>
Liquids can be accurately measured by volume. And 20 ounces is a
measure by weight. I think the author put most of it into weight. The
only part that isn't as accurate as I (as the author) would like is the
starter measurements. In the end, it's bread, not rocket science.

I am in the process of changing the web site to all weight measurement,
with cups as a secondary and discouraged measurement.

Mike


Mike

Dusty Bleher wrote:
I've never tried a "wet towel" on a loaf
> before. Can you elaborate just what & how you do that? Every time
> I've had anything touch the loaf--if it wasn't slathered in
> flour--it stuck!
>
> If ya could, 'splain to me how & with what you do it...and I'll
> recheck that recipe & see if I can figure out where I went astray...
>
>
> Regards all,
> Dusty

All I did was set two boules on a piece of parchment, then gave them a
good spray with the squirt gun. I then grabbed the thin cotton towel,
not terry cloth, with the print of the state of Maine on it, wet it
under the sink, wrung it out a bit, and then laid it on the loaves.
They sat in the cold oven as described in your recipe for about four
hours while they proofed. All that time with the wet towel on them.

I admit to removing the loaves and per-heating the oven to 450, and
then I removed the towel, gave them three slices each and slid them
onto my baking stone. Baked for 40 minutes.

Doc wrote:
> --keven. wrote:
> http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm
> >
> > I attempted this recipe (http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm) this weekend and it does not seem to have a very high hydration factor-- the resulting dough was stiff, not slack like a slipper should be. Although maybe I was "slack" somehow and made an error somwhere along the way.
> >
> > --keven.
>
> Keven,
> It looks OK to me. Somewhere between 75% and 82% hydration depending
> on how much your "cup" of flour weighs. The calculation below assumes
> flour weighs 3.75 oz/cup.
>
> Liquid Flour
> (cups) (cups)
> 0.125 0.125
> 1.000
> 0.250
> 1.000
> 0.250
> 0.750
> 2.500
> 0.750
> total(c) 1.875 4.875
> oz/cup 8 3.75
> total(oz)15.000 18.28
>
> hydration 82%
>
>
> Cheers,
> Doc

Now that I think about it, I bet it was a fault of my own. I am not
precise in flour measurement, and I forgot to pick up durum flour. I
subsiotituted whole wheat, so I bet that is what mae the difference.
No worries though, it was good bread!

G'day "--keven." & all;

"--keven." > wrote in message
oups.com...
....
> gave them a
> good spray with the squirt gun. I then grabbed the thin cotton
> towel, ...
> wet it
> under the sink, wrung it out a bit, and then laid it on the
> loaves.
> They sat in the cold oven as described in your recipe for about
> four
> hours while they proofed. All that time with the wet towel on
> them.
>
> I admit to removing the loaves and per-heating the oven to 450,
> and
Tsk, tsk, tsk! Such recipe muckery is frowned upon by the good
bread faeries...(:-o)!

> then I removed the towel, gave them three slices each and slid
> them
> onto my baking stone. Baked for 40 minutes.
Sounds like it should work just fine that way.

But the next time, just for drill, take that first loaf and just do
it from cold. Put your stone on a rack above it (assuming your
stove heats from the bottom). When it's done, remove that loaf, put
your stone back where it belongs, and bake that second one on the
stone as per usual. Compare. Let us know what you find...


Regards my friends,
Dusty
>

--keven. wrote:

> Dusty Bleher wrote:
> I've never tried a "wet towel" on a loaf
>> before. Can you elaborate just what & how you do that?

> ... I then grabbed the thin cotton towel,
> not terry cloth, with the print of the state of Maine on it, wet it
> under the sink, wrung it out a bit, and then laid it on the loaves.

I do the same, keeps the surface from drying out. My towels do not have
prints of the state of Maine on them, though, but I don't think that
makes much of a difference. Oh, and I wet the towel in the sink,
because that's where the water taps/faucets are.

B/

"Mike Avery" > wrote in message
news:mailman.3.1159852030.20413.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...

>
> I am in the process of changing the web site to all weight measurement,
> with cups as a secondary and discouraged measurement.
>
Glad to read of that, Mike! I weigh everything, including the liquids as it
is so much easier, especially if you been "metricised":-)
Graham

OldGreyBob wrote:
> I too made it over the weekend with a San Fran starter culture growing
> happily in 100% whole wheat. The bread was fantastic in taste, in crust,
> and in crumb. I may not be the ideal ciabatta but it is an excellent bread
> in its own right. I just plain loved it.
>
> Since I bake only every other week, I was just wondering how well do you
> think the bread freezes?

Hi,

by pure coincidence I'm making ciabatta right now, well it's sitting in
the oven waiting fro me to go and switch the oven on.

Hi Dusty. I can't agree more regarding the cold oven. I don't know
about other people's ovens but in mine I get just as good results from
a cold start and no stone. I proof in the oven these days with a bowl
of warm water for humidity, it works really well and no drying of the
dough surface.
I haven't looked at your recipe Dusty but I've been making great
ciabatte lately with 80% hydration. I'm having a go at 85% today.
They're looking good at the moment.

I'm interested to hear about slashing. I've never seen Italian ciabatte
slashed seems a bit odd wouldn't that just be pagnotta? I know it's
just semantics but that is what many breads are after all, just
different shaped doughs using the same formula. Any way that really is
just being pedantic. Don't take any notice. lol.

Someone mentioned holes that were too big. Never had that problem even
when using commercial yeast starter. Sounds like pita breads. : -)

Jim