Hello all, I made a very strange looking sourdough bread last night.
Has anyone seen this sort of expansion through the bottom of the bread
before? Either I didn't pinch/seal the bottom of the dough enough or I
didn't slash the top deep enough to allow for expansion. I think if the
dough was wetter I would've been able to pinch it shut properly. How do
people make breads with very little to no seams AND have a tight bread
surface?

The bread is very good, especially for my first time. It has a
wonderful sourdough 'twang' to it and is very airy, both of which I
love in a good sourdough loaf. Crust has a nice crunch to it but I
probably could've baked it for another 10 minutes. I preheated a pizza
stone at 445F for one hour and baked it for about 35 minutes. Here are
some photos that I posted to the pizzamaking forum:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/ind...c,3796.40.html

I'm open to constructive criticism if you got it....thanks.....

Congratulations on your success.

Kidder wrote:

> http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/ind...c,3796.40.html
>
> I'm open to constructive criticism if you got it....thanks.....

If you post links purporting to be pictures that are really just links
to forums where there are links purporting to be pictures that are
really just links to login pages for a forum that we're not likely to
belong to, you're just asking for trouble.

Hans Fugal wrote:

> If you post links purporting to be pictures that are really just links
> to forums where there are links purporting to be pictures that are
> really just links to login pages for a forum that we're not likely to
> belong to, you're just asking for trouble.

LOL, he doesn't call himself kidder for nothing. : -)

Jim

Hans Fugal wrote:
> Congratulations on your success.
>
> Kidder wrote:
>
> > http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/ind...c,3796.40.html
> >
> > I'm open to constructive criticism if you got it....thanks.....
>
> If you post links purporting to be pictures that are really just links
> to forums where there are links purporting to be pictures that are
> really just links to login pages for a forum that we're not likely to
> belong to, you're just asking for trouble.

Sorry about that, I forgot you have to join to go into the forums. When
I get home today I'll post them on this newsgroup directly.

"Kidder" > wrote:

>When
>I get home today I'll post them on this newsgroup directly.

Please don't! This isn't a binary group, and some servers will drop your
post. Put it in some personal web space, or in an appropriate binary
group, then post a link here.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

Hans Fugal > wrote:

>If you post links purporting to be pictures that are really just links
>to forums where there are links purporting to be pictures ...

Stack overflow...


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

Well, I have a Photobucket account so should I use that?


Jeff Miller wrote:
> Just FYI, most folks won't see the pics if you send them to the group. As a
> Usenet group, attachments are usually stripped off for most people.
>
> You'd do better to post them to Flickr http://www.flickr.com/ or some other
> Website like that and then post a link here.
>
> I hope you do -- I really want to see this strange loaf!
>
> --
> Jeff Miller
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > ] On
> > Behalf Of Kidder
> > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:22 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: First sourdough bread attempt
> >
> >
> > Hans Fugal wrote:
> > > Congratulations on your success.
> > >
> > > Kidder wrote:
> > >
> > > > http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/ind...c,3796.40.html
> > > >
> > > > I'm open to constructive criticism if you got it....thanks.....
> > >
> > > If you post links purporting to be pictures that are really
> > just links
> > > to forums where there are links purporting to be pictures that are
> > > really just links to login pages for a forum that we're not
> > likely to
> > > belong to, you're just asking for trouble.
> >
> > Sorry about that, I forgot you have to join to go into the
> > forums. When I get home today I'll post them on this
> > newsgroup directly.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > rec.food.sourdough mailing list
> >
> > http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a mail to
> > and then reply to
> > the confirmation request.
> >

Here they are. The last photo I'm quite fond of, for obvious reasons.
Has this sort of expansion happened to any of you? I plan on baking
sourdough on a regular basis...definitely my favorite style of bread.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0204.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0203.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0202.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0201.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0200.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0197.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0211.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0214.jpg


Kidder wrote:
> Hello all, I made a very strange looking sourdough bread last night.
> Has anyone seen this sort of expansion through the bottom of the bread
> before? Either I didn't pinch/seal the bottom of the dough enough or I
> didn't slash the top deep enough to allow for expansion. I think if the
> dough was wetter I would've been able to pinch it shut properly. How do
> people make breads with very little to no seams AND have a tight bread
> surface?
>
> The bread is very good, especially for my first time. It has a
> wonderful sourdough 'twang' to it and is very airy, both of which I
> love in a good sourdough loaf. Crust has a nice crunch to it but I
> probably could've baked it for another 10 minutes. I preheated a pizza
> stone at 445F for one hour and baked it for about 35 minutes. Here are
> some photos that I posted to the pizzamaking forum:
>
> http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/ind...c,3796.40.html
>
> I'm open to constructive criticism if you got it....thanks.....

It's obvious-your bread is giving birth!

Kidder wrote:
> Here they are. The last photo I'm quite fond of, for obvious reasons.
> Has this sort of expansion happened to any of you? I plan on baking
> sourdough on a regular basis...definitely my favorite style of bread.
>
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0204.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0203.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0202.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0201.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0200.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0197.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0211.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0214.jpg
>
>
> Kidder wrote:
> > Hello all, I made a very strange looking sourdough bread last night.
> > Has anyone seen this sort of expansion through the bottom of the bread
> > before? Either I didn't pinch/seal the bottom of the dough enough or I
> > didn't slash the top deep enough to allow for expansion. I think if the
> > dough was wetter I would've been able to pinch it shut properly. How do
> > people make breads with very little to no seams AND have a tight bread
> > surface?
> >
> > The bread is very good, especially for my first time. It has a
> > wonderful sourdough 'twang' to it and is very airy, both of which I
> > love in a good sourdough loaf. Crust has a nice crunch to it but I
> > probably could've baked it for another 10 minutes. I preheated a pizza
> > stone at 445F for one hour and baked it for about 35 minutes. Here are
> > some photos that I posted to the pizzamaking forum:
> >
> > http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/ind...c,3796.40.html
> >
> > I'm open to constructive criticism if you got it....thanks.....

It sure looks like it, doesn't it?


wrote:
> It's obvious-your bread is giving birth!
>
> Kidder wrote:
> > Here they are. The last photo I'm quite fond of, for obvious reasons.
> > Has this sort of expansion happened to any of you? I plan on baking
> > sourdough on a regular basis...definitely my favorite style of bread.
> >
> > http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0204.jpg
> > http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0203.jpg
> > http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0202.jpg
> > http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0201.jpg
> > http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0200.jpg
> > http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0197.jpg
> > http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0211.jpg
> > http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0214.jpg
> >
> >
> > Kidder wrote:
> > > Hello all, I made a very strange looking sourdough bread last night.
> > > Has anyone seen this sort of expansion through the bottom of the bread
> > > before? Either I didn't pinch/seal the bottom of the dough enough or I
> > > didn't slash the top deep enough to allow for expansion. I think if the
> > > dough was wetter I would've been able to pinch it shut properly. How do
> > > people make breads with very little to no seams AND have a tight bread
> > > surface?
> > >
> > > The bread is very good, especially for my first time. It has a
> > > wonderful sourdough 'twang' to it and is very airy, both of which I
> > > love in a good sourdough loaf. Crust has a nice crunch to it but I
> > > probably could've baked it for another 10 minutes. I preheated a pizza
> > > stone at 445F for one hour and baked it for about 35 minutes. Here are
> > > some photos that I posted to the pizzamaking forum:
> > >
> > > http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/ind...c,3796.40.html
> > >
> > > I'm open to constructive criticism if you got it....thanks.....

Come on people. You sure didn't have a problem complaining about my
first post, now when I do post correctly you have no response?

Kidder wrote:
> Here they are. The last photo I'm quite fond of, for obvious reasons.
> Has this sort of expansion happened to any of you? I plan on baking
> sourdough on a regular basis...definitely my favorite style of bread.
>
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0204.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0203.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0202.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0201.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0200.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0197.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0211.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0214.jpg
>
>
> Kidder wrote:
> > Hello all, I made a very strange looking sourdough bread last night.
> > Has anyone seen this sort of expansion through the bottom of the bread
> > before? Either I didn't pinch/seal the bottom of the dough enough or I
> > didn't slash the top deep enough to allow for expansion. I think if the
> > dough was wetter I would've been able to pinch it shut properly. How do
> > people make breads with very little to no seams AND have a tight bread
> > surface?
> >
> > The bread is very good, especially for my first time. It has a
> > wonderful sourdough 'twang' to it and is very airy, both of which I
> > love in a good sourdough loaf. Crust has a nice crunch to it but I
> > probably could've baked it for another 10 minutes. I preheated a pizza
> > stone at 445F for one hour and baked it for about 35 minutes. Here are
> > some photos that I posted to the pizzamaking forum:
> >
> > http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/ind...c,3796.40.html
> >
> > I'm open to constructive criticism if you got it....thanks.....

TOOOOOO Funny!!! I thot the same thing :-) nancy

>
wrote:
>> It's obvious-your bread is giving birth!
>>

"Kidder" > wrote in message ups.com...

> Come on people. You sure didn't have a problem complaining about my
> first post, now when I do post correctly you have no response?

Your loaf looks like something that crawled out of an ancient ocean.
We should have an archive for weird bread photos.

> I'm open to constructive criticism if you got it....thanks.....

OK. Full requoting ( >, >>, >>>, etc.) is unessential.

--
Dicky

Kidder wrote:
> Here they are. The last photo I'm quite fond of, for obvious reasons.
> Has this sort of expansion happened to any of you? I plan on baking
> sourdough on a regular basis...definitely my favorite style of bread.
>
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0204.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0203.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0202.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0201.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0200.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0197.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0211.jpg
> http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/DSCN0214.jpg
>
>
> Kidder wrote:
>> Hello all, I made a very strange looking sourdough bread last night.
>> Has anyone seen this sort of expansion through the bottom of the bread
>> before? Either I didn't pinch/seal the bottom of the dough enough or I
>> didn't slash the top deep enough to allow for expansion. I think if the
>> dough was wetter I would've been able to pinch it shut properly. How do
>> people make breads with very little to no seams AND have a tight bread
>> surface?

That kind of explosion means that you could have risen it longer before
baking. If you had done so it wouldn't have such violent oven spring and
would be more well-behaved. As a bonus it would have developed even more
flavor. Alternatively you can learn to channel the violent oven spring
with shaping and slashing technique... or just fill the niche market for
birthing breads. :-)

The crumb and crust looks very nice. Just how wet was the dough? The
large holes suggest a fair amount of water, but that's not necessarily
true I guess. If you're having trouble pinching it shut, you might try a
little topical water at the time of pinching (or a wetter dough if your
dough is indeed dry). Remember also that part of oven spring comes from
steam, and more water means more steam.

Dick Adams wrote:
> "Kidder" > wrote in message ups.com...
>
>> Come on people. You sure didn't have a problem complaining about my
>> first post, now when I do post correctly you have no response?
>
> Your loaf looks like something that crawled out of an ancient ocean.
> We should have an archive for weird bread photos.
>

Definitely a DNA defect (X/Y confusion), with all the gen-manipulated
food around.... I would not eat that. Does not seem to have rye.

S.

Yeah, I read the recent post about 'exploding bread', maybe that's my
problem. I let it warm rise for 3 hours and immediately put it in the
fridge for about 16 hours prior to baking. I put it in the oven
(preheated at 450F with a pizza stone) straight from the fridge. I
pretty much follwed the 'lesson' on egullet. Not that I have The Bread
Bible I'll try Rose's techniques exclusively. She really seems to know
her bread.

I'd say hydration was around 60-65%. I decided to knead by hand so that
required a little extra flour to keep from sticking to my hands. My
slashing definitely needs improvement. The bread tastes very good and
the crust is nice and chewy. Much better than the local Kroger's
sourdough boules, and more sour. I should've baked it for 10 more
minutes though. Next time I'll try adding water to the seam area and
pinch it shut better.

Thanks for the help and complement.

>
> That kind of explosion means that you could have risen it longer before
> baking. If you had done so it wouldn't have such violent oven spring and
> would be more well-behaved. As a bonus it would have developed even more
> flavor. Alternatively you can learn to channel the violent oven spring
> with shaping and slashing technique... or just fill the niche market for
> birthing breads. :-)
>
> The crumb and crust looks very nice. Just how wet was the dough? The
> large holes suggest a fair amount of water, but that's not necessarily
> true I guess. If you're having trouble pinching it shut, you might try a
> little topical water at the time of pinching (or a wetter dough if your
> dough is indeed dry). Remember also that part of oven spring comes from
> steam, and more water means more steam.

Kidder wrote:
> Yeah, I read the recent post about 'exploding bread', maybe that's my
> problem. I let it warm rise for 3 hours and immediately put it in the
> fridge for about 16 hours prior to baking. I put it in the oven
> (preheated at 450F with a pizza stone) straight from the fridge. I
> pretty much follwed the 'lesson' on egullet. Not that I have The Bread
> Bible I'll try Rose's techniques exclusively. She really seems to know
> her bread.
>
> I'd say hydration was around 60-65%. I decided to knead by hand so that
> required a little extra flour to keep from sticking to my hands. My
> slashing definitely needs improvement. The bread tastes very good and
> the crust is nice and chewy. Much better than the local Kroger's
> sourdough boules, and more sour. I should've baked it for 10 more
> minutes though. Next time I'll try adding water to the seam area and
> pinch it shut better.
>
> Thanks for the help and complement.

Hi Kidder,

First off Ieuwwww! That looks like something from a medical journal.
lol.

Not everyone pops in here everyday so I wouldn't take it too much to
heart if you don't get responses straight away. But it looks like you
got the help anyway.

Have you tried using the no-knead technique? It means when you want a
65% dough you get a 65% dough and more importantly when you, if you,
try an 85% you'll know what to do. : -) ( just another tip, don't think
you have to spend your hard earned cash but a probe thermometer will
help stop undercooking problems. Borrow one a couple of times if you
can because you'll get the hang of it and not use it anymore, 200-207F,
'cept for meat. It looks as if the 'tap' technique probably wouldn't
have worked there.)

I have to say though for 65% there's some big holes there. I proof my
dough for 8-12 hours and if I'm going to put it in the fridge it gets
about four before and ± four after. It looks like your slashing wasn't
doing what it was supposed to do either but that is pretty obvious. :
-)

Jim

More seriously,

reason is clear. Too much pressure inside and no escape on designed
places: slashes on top. That's why pressure takes the weakest spot and
escapes there.

If you look at that pictu

http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/DM3

That's the same issue but the escape was where it was planned.

Remedy: more fermentation and deeper slashing.

Samartha

Haven't tried the no-knead technique. You basically just mix the
ingredients, autolyse, rest/rise, then shape and bake? I do have a
Kitchenaid stand mixer but decided not to use it. Next week I'll try
making another and actually use the mixer.

Thanks for the advice.

> Hi Kidder,
>
> First off Ieuwwww! That looks like something from a medical journal.
> lol.
>
> Not everyone pops in here everyday so I wouldn't take it too much to
> heart if you don't get responses straight away. But it looks like you
> got the help anyway.
>
> Have you tried using the no-knead technique? It means when you want a
> 65% dough you get a 65% dough and more importantly when you, if you,
> try an 85% you'll know what to do. : -) ( just another tip, don't think
> you have to spend your hard earned cash but a probe thermometer will
> help stop undercooking problems. Borrow one a couple of times if you
> can because you'll get the hang of it and not use it anymore, 200-207F,
> 'cept for meat. It looks as if the 'tap' technique probably wouldn't
> have worked there.)
>
> I have to say though for 65% there's some big holes there. I proof my
> dough for 8-12 hours and if I'm going to put it in the fridge it gets
> about four before and ± four after. It looks like your slashing wasn't
> doing what it was supposed to do either but that is pretty obvious. :
> -)
>
> Jim

Wow, looks like the exact same issue, except your's gave birth out the
top. Should I do more of a warm rise, say maybe 6-8 hours instead of 3,
and then put in the fridge?

On 20 Oct 2006 11:14:09 -0700, Kidder > wrote:
> Wow, looks like the exact same issue, except your's gave birth out the
> top. Should I do more of a warm rise, say maybe 6-8 hours instead of 3,
> and then put in the fridge?
>

dunno - depends a lot on starter vitality, inoculation size,
fermentation time and recipe & I don't have time right now to go into
all the possible detail in your case and I am currently not into white
breads and do fridge only in emergencies. Other's may.

Samartha

"Samartha Deva" > wrote in message
news:mailman.46.1161368522.1438.rec.food.sourdough @www.mountainbitwarrior.com...

>
> ... I am currently not into white
> breads

I never did until a few months ago when I realised that I had possibly
developed an intolerance to whole wheat flour. I get indigestion with bread,
pastries, pancakes, biscuits - you name it - if they're made with wholemeal
flours. It stopped when I began using only white flours.

In my case it seems to be one of the penalties of ageing :-(

Mary