Take the finest producers of every pizza product made - I've been
to their inner sanctum where they've spilled their secrets ... the
cheesemakers, flour millers, sauce canners - well, you get the
picture - and I kept my eyes open. I know secrets that even the best
in the pizza industry don't know. And it's time to tell.
It's not about finding one more pizza recipe in a magazine or on the
Internet. (Have you ever noticed they all look alike?) The problem is:
They just don't work. Know what I mean? You end up with yet one more
homemade pizza that is just okay - maybe even good - but not what
you were looking for. Disappointment once again.
You've probably figured it out - it's not the recipe. It's in the
ingredients and techniques! Miss that and you miss everything.
I'll show you all you need to know and where to get everything you
need to make the best pizza right at home.
http://pizzapu.blogspot.com/#

Or, save $29.95 and go he

http://jvpizza.sliceny.com/

birddog wrote:
> Or, save $29.95 and go he
>
> http://jvpizza.sliceny.com/

That's a good site; thanks!

This site is also very good:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/

wrote:

> Take the ...

I make fantastic pizza, better than I got in Italy and my partner just
got back, guess what we're have tonight. : - )

You don't need to spend your hard earned cash on it. How dumb do you
think we are?

Jim

cumin wrote:

> birddog wrote:
> > Or, save $29.95 and go he
> >
> > http://jvpizza.sliceny.com/
>
> That's a good site; thanks!
>
> This site is also very good:
> http://www.pizzamaking.com/

Isn't it? I enjoyed reading that, that is definitely one to bookmark.

I have to say though, that baking tray thingy with the holes is way
better than a pizza stone, the only gadget other than scales I use all
the time, I'm no good trying to slide pizza onto hot terra cotta. It
usually goes down the back. lol.

Jim

TG wrote:

> I have to say though, that baking tray thingy with the holes is way
> better than a pizza stone, the only gadget other than scales I use all
> the time, I'm no good trying to slide pizza onto hot terra cotta. ..
>
> Jim

I build the pizza on parchment paper, then use a peel to transfer the
pizza to the oven. A piece of cardboard would probably work as good as
a peel.

My point is that parchment paper ranks nearly as high as a scale for
baking bread and pizzas.

cumin wrote:

> TG wrote:
>
> > I have to say though, that baking tray thingy with the holes is way
> > better than a pizza stone, the only gadget other than scales I use all
> > the time, I'm no good trying to slide pizza onto hot terra cotta. ..
> >
> > Jim
>
> I build the pizza on parchment paper, then use a peel to transfer the
> pizza to the oven. A piece of cardboard would probably work as good as
> a peel.
>
> My point is that parchment paper ranks nearly as high as a scale for
> baking bread and pizzas.

Hi yeah, thanks for that, I started off using the parchment paper
thing, I thought it would make things easier to get the dough on the
stone, but it stuck like buggery, so I never did that again. I couldn't
manage to use it as a peel either. I do have a peel. Sits at the back
of the cupboard gathering dust and cobwebs. : -)

I was, by pure coincidence watching Heston Blumenthal (See Wiki if you
go Huhh?) on TV last night. He made pizza on the back of a hot frying
pan under the grill. It looked great, really fantastic, and it was done
in two minutes.

Jim

TG wrote:
> Hi yeah, thanks for that, I started off using the parchment paper
> thing, I thought it would make things easier to get the dough on the
> stone, but it stuck like buggery, so I never did that again. I couldn't
> manage to use it as a peel either. I do have a peel. Sits at the back
> of the cupboard gathering dust and cobwebs. : -)
>
Lots of folks have trouble with peels. However, they are an easy tool
to use when you get the knack.

I have, use and like a SuperPeel, but you need to know how to use them too.

Let's talk about a plain peel first. Some people recommend a wooden
peel to put stuff in the oven and a metal one to take it out. I use a
wooden peel for everything, though I can see where a thinner metal peel
would be easier to use to get stuff out of the oven.

Some people use cornmeal or semolina to act as little ball bearings to
help stuff slide off the peel. While it works, I'd rather not do that -
the cornmeal or semolina will be one more thing to clean up, and
cornmeal smells really nasty when it burns (I'm told semolina isn't as
bad, but it is still one more thing to clean up.) Instead, I use
parchment paper. Look around for the best price, there is a LOT of
variation in pricing. Some people use a reusable parchment paper that
works well and costs between $7.00 and $25.00 depending on where you buy
it and the brand. I've used it, but haven't bought any because I still
have about 750 sheets left over from the bakery. I don't recommend the
reuseable stuff for classes or work environments - someone WILL throw it
away, not realizing it is reuseable. And that is an expensive mistake.

The first principle to remember is wet stuff sticks. Whether its dough
or wet parchment paper. So, you need to make sure you aren't putting
something wet right on the peel. If you put dough on parchment paper,
the parchment paper on the peel and then go straight into the oven, you
should be in good shape. If you let the parchment paper get soggy, you
aren't in as good a shape. Reuseable parchment paper, being plasticized
or siliconized, is better in this regard than real paper. The big
problem I've had with parchment paper is when someone slowly builds a
pizza on it... it tends to sog through, and then it will have trouble
moving. I'd suggest a second layer of parchment paper in this case.
Again, the reuseable parchment papers are better for this than the real
paper kind.

Next, remember Newton's laws. An object at rest tends to stay at rest.
An object in motion tends to stay on motion. Many people pick up the
loaded peel, move it towards the oven at a high rate of speed and then
stop the peel. Breads will tend to continue flying to the back of the
oven, where they will make a mess. If you are making pizza, the whole
pizza will tend to fly to the back of the oven, making a bigger mess.
If you are making pizza and your parchment paper is wet, only the
toppings will fly to the back of the oven, making a slightly smaller
mess. Don't ask me how I know this. The better approach is to move the
peel so the bread or pizza are positioned where you want them. Lower
the peel so it touches your oven stones. Then gently jerk the peel out
from under the bread or pizza. When the bread or pizza make contact
with the stone, it will become easier to slide the peel out.

When it's time to retrieve the breads or pizzas, you can pick up an edge
of the parchment paper, slide the peel under the bread or pizza, and
replace the peel under the pizza. Then lift and remove the bread or
pizza. If your bread or pizza isn't on parchment paper, you can wedge
your peel under the bread or pizza. Sometimes this works. Sometimes
you push the bread or pizza to the back of the oven. Once the bread or
pizza hit the back of the oven, it's usually easier to get the peel
under the bread or pizza. Then you're home free. In some severe cases,
the peel still won't slide under the bread or pizza. In that case, get
your oven mits and pull the rack out so you can get to the bread or pizza.

Hope that helps,
Mike


--
....The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world...

Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

"Mike Avery" > wrote in message
news:mailman.10.1164824867.45514.rec.food.sourdoug ...
> TG wrote:
> > Hi yeah, thanks for that, I started off using the parchment paper
> > thing, I thought it would make things easier to get the dough on the
> > stone, but it stuck like buggery, so I never did that again. I couldn't
> > manage to use it as a peel either. I do have a peel. Sits at the back
> > of the cupboard gathering dust and cobwebs. : -)
> >
> Lots of folks have trouble with peels. However, they are an easy tool
> to use when you get the knack.
>
i would just like to add that using a silpat, for me anyway, has been a
better choice than parchment. 1- it lasts forever, thus avoiding the need
for buying parchment; 2- it never gets soggy; 3- i can roll out pizza dough
or pita dough as thin as i want to directly on the silpat, )the parchment
gathers back when rolling out dough.)

when making pizza i heat my oven with stone in and after it reaches temp, i
put it on broil setting for 5 minutes. this gets the stone very hot on the
surface. then i switch back to the bake setting and slide the silpat and
all into the oven. after 10 min or so i remove the silpat and finish the
bake. with pizza i only wait about 5 min to remove silpat.

dan w

dan w wrote:
> i would just like to add that using a silpat, for me anyway, has been a
> better choice than parchment.
Silpat is a brand name for a reusable parchment. All the reusable
parchments last a long, long time. And many of them cost as little as
1/3 of what Silpat costs.

My reservation about using Silpat, or other reusable parchments, is that
I am afraid students or employees will throw them away. A friend lost
about 10 of them during a class she was teaching. You can buy a LOT of
parchment for the cost of one Silpat. How many? Over 1,000 full sheet
pan sized pieces.

Also, you can reuse regular parchment paper about 3 times, depending on
oven temperature. After that it gets too crumbly and falls apart.

Mike

--
....The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world...

Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

"Mike Avery" > wrote in message
news:mailman.11.1164832455.45514.rec.food.sourdoug ...
> dan w wrote:
> > i would just like to add that using a silpat, for me anyway, has been a
> > better choice than parchment.
> Silpat is a brand name for a reusable parchment. All the reusable
> parchments last a long, long time. And many of them cost as little as
> 1/3 of what Silpat costs.
>
> My reservation about using Silpat, or other reusable parchments, is that
> I am afraid students or employees will throw them away. A friend lost
> about 10 of them during a class she was teaching. You can buy a LOT of
> parchment for the cost of one Silpat. How many? Over 1,000 full sheet
> pan sized pieces.
>
> Also, you can reuse regular parchment paper about 3 times, depending on
> oven temperature. After that it gets too crumbly and falls apart.
>
> Mike

perhaps for the professional baker that is a problem. hopefully the home
baker knows the difference between paper parchment and his silicone mat.

dan w

Hello "dan w" & all;

....
>> Lots of folks have trouble with peels. However, they are an easy tool
>> to use when you get the knack.
No doubt about that, Mike.

> i would just like to add that using a silpat, for me anyway, has been a
> better choice than parchment. 1- it lasts forever, thus avoiding the need
10-4 that! While I'm a retro-curmudgeon at heart, I've learned to lose and
do without all sorts of the "high-tech" stuff that so many posting here
think they absolutely need to make bread these days. But my silicon matt?
Nope! Yer gonna hafta bring both a lunch & some help to get me to eschew
that bit of technology...(:-o)! It replaces my stone, cookie sheet, and
parchment. Besides that, it's a most versatile and easily packed bit of
technology...

....
> when making pizza i heat my oven with stone in and after it reaches temp,
> i
Yep. Do that as well. As most of you probably know by now, I always bake
into a cold oven. However, my SD pizza dough is about the only thing I do
in a hot oven. Ain't no way around that. And the pizza's (at least
according to the kids & gKids) are "the best!".


L8r all,
Dusty

Dusty da baker wrote:
...
> Yep. Do that as well. As most of you probably know by now, I always bake
> into a cold oven. However, my SD pizza dough is about the only thing I do
> in a hot oven. Ain't no way around that. And the pizza's (at least
> according to the kids & gKids) are "the best!".
>
>
> L8r all,
> Dusty

Hi Dusty, this may sound like a really daft question, so do you mean
that you put the pizza on the sil-paper then put that in the oven
without a tray or stone? My pizza stones are now living and working
outside under plant pots, lol, I use the holey tray thingies these
days, other than once when, as Mike said, it got a bit wet underneath,
it never sticks. They've been the best thing that I tried for pizza. I
cracked my proper pizza stone because it was a bit too big for the oven
and hung over the flame, then run off from the pizza cracked it.


Jim

Mike Avery wrote:
> TG wrote:.... In some severe cases,
> the peel still won't slide under the bread or pizza. In that case, get
> your oven mits and pull the rack out so you can get to the bread or pizza.
>
> Hope that helps,
> Mike
>
> ...

Thanks Mike,

As always you're a wealth of good information. : -)

Cheers

Jim

"TG" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
> Hi yeah, thanks for that, I started off using the parchment paper
> thing, I thought it would make things easier to get the dough on the
> stone, but it stuck like buggery, so I never did that again. I couldn't
> manage to use it as a peel either. I do have a peel. Sits at the back
> of the cupboard gathering dust and cobwebs. : -)

I have a peel for use outdoors with the bread oven but our kitchen's far too
small to wield its long handle. I'll have to get him to make another, with
an appropriately sized handle. When he's done all the other things on the
list :-)
>
> I was, by pure coincidence watching Heston Blumenthal (See Wiki if you
> go Huhh?) on TV last night. He made pizza on the back of a hot frying
> pan under the grill. It looked great, really fantastic, and it was done
> in two minutes.

What a good idea! Thanks for that. I have a lot of time for Blumenthal but
no TV.

Mary
>
> Jim
>

Mary Fisher wrote:
...
> >...> I have a peel for use outdoors with the bread oven but our kitchen's far too
> small to wield its long handle. I'll have to get him to make another, with
> an appropriately sized handle. When he's done all the other things on the
> list :-)
> >
> > I ....Heston Blumenthal ... He made pizza on the back of a hot frying
> > pan under the grill. ...
>
> What a good idea! Thanks for that. I have a lot of time for Blumenthal but
> no TV.
>
> Mary
> >
> > Jim

You're welcome. : - ) I wish my grill were big enough to get my frying
pan under but I'm really eager to try it. Maybe for lunch tomorrow.
Yeah I couldn't wield a peel with a handle in my kitchen either but I
have a great aluminium baking sheet with a lip on just one side that I
used a few times. I'm so bad at it though. I've have had so many pizzas
on the flour or down the back of the oven. lol. Now, if I had one of
those brick ovens like my dad used to have. mmm.

Jim

What pizza sauce do you use? I use Don Pepino pizza sauce and have been
pretty satisfied with it, but am always open to other sauces. I like my
sauce on the sweet side and very thick and tomatoey.

Peggy Fair wrote:
> What pizza sauce do you use? I use Don Pepino pizza sauce and have been
> pretty satisfied with it, but am always open to other sauces. I like my
> sauce on the sweet side and very thick and tomatoey.
>
I haven't tried that one. All the grocery store brands I've tried have
nasty after tastes. I've found if I don't have the time or energy to
make my own sauce, I like to get a decent spaghetti sauce.

However, very often I don't even use red sauces. I like to take a jar
of prepared basil pesto, spread a generous amount on the pizza crust and
top with shredded mozzarella cheese. A real treat!

Mike

--
....The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world...

Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

Yes, that has been my experience with most pizza sauces that you get in
the store. But Don Pepino seems to be the only one that tastes halfway
decent. I made a pizza a few nights ago and used the DP sauce, a Boboli
pizza crust, I fried some sweet italian sausage and added some anise
liquid to give it more flavor and added swiss, provolone and mozzerala
cheese to it. It came out good for a beginner like me, but I don't
think I will use the swiss cheese anymore because it doesn't seem to go
well with pizza. In the future, as I get better and have more time on
my hands, I am going to make my dough from scratch.

"Peggy Fair" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Yes, that has been my experience with most pizza sauces that you get in
> the store. But Don Pepino seems to be the only one that tastes halfway
> decent. I made a pizza a few nights ago and used the DP sauce, a Boboli
> pizza crust, I fried some sweet italian sausage and added some anise
> liquid to give it more flavor and added swiss, provolone and mozzerala
> cheese to it. It came out good for a beginner like me, but I don't
> think I will use the swiss cheese anymore because it doesn't seem to go
> well with pizza. In the future, as I get better and have more time on
> my hands, I am going to make my dough from scratch.

It's so easy to make your own, you don't need a recipe. Just use whatever
comes to hand!

Mary
>

"TG" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Mary Fisher wrote:
> ..
>> >...> I have a peel for use outdoors with the bread oven but our
>> >kitchen's far too
>> small to wield its long handle. I'll have to get him to make another,
>> with
>> an appropriately sized handle. When he's done all the other things on the
>> list :-)
>> >
>> > I ....Heston Blumenthal ... He made pizza on the back of a hot frying
>> > pan under the grill. ...
>>
>> What a good idea! Thanks for that. I have a lot of time for Blumenthal
>> but
>> no TV.
>>
>> Mary
>> >
>> > Jim
>
> You're welcome. : - ) I wish my grill were big enough to get my frying
> pan under but I'm really eager to try it. Maybe for lunch tomorrow.
> Yeah I couldn't wield a peel with a handle in my kitchen either but I
> have a great aluminium baking sheet with a lip on just one side that I
> used a few times. I'm so bad at it though. I've have had so many pizzas
> on the flour or down the back of the oven. lol. Now, if I had one of
> those brick ovens like my dad used to have. mmm.

Make one!

We made ours earlier this year, brick inside, stone outside. 'The Bread
Builders' was our inspiration.

Mary
>
> Jim
>

>>
>> Jim
>>
>> Now, if I had one of
>> those brick ovens like my dad used to have. mmm.

> Mary
>
> Make one!
>
> We made ours earlier this year, brick inside, stone outside. 'The Bread
> Builders' was our inspiration.
>

Yes but how does it work? Do you like it?

Joe Umstead

"Mary Fisher" > wrote in message t...

> [ ... ] (thread history deleted)*

> We made (our oven) earlier this year, brick inside, stone outside.
> 'The Bread Builders' was our inspiration.


"Joe Umstead" > wrote in message ...

> Yes but how does it work? Do you like it?

I know about those things. They work good, after you get 'em hot
enough, and clean out the remains of the fire.

--
Dicky

_____________________________
* It is recommended to edit out thread history in order (1) to preserve
cyberspace, (2) to demonstrate editing expertise, and (3) to facilitate
the reading of messages without the necessity of scrolling.

"Joe Umstead" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> Now, if I had one of
>>> those brick ovens like my dad used to have. mmm.
>
>> Mary
>>
>> Make one!
>>
>> We made ours earlier this year, brick inside, stone outside. 'The Bread
>> Builders' was our inspiration.
>>
>
> Yes but how does it work? Do you like it?

It works wonderfully! It also looks good in its own right, we think.

Trouble is, we're in Yorkshire, England and our winter, while mild, is cold
and damp. Getting the mass of the oven up to heat would take a lot of wood
so we've only used it in summer. When I use it I make enough bread for a
month at a time.

The grandchildren love making pizzas to bake in it - nicely returning to the
original post :-) It's great for parties, everyone wants to have a go.

I could send you an album of pictures of the building if you liked.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:

>
> "Joe Umstead" > wrote in message
> ...

>>>
>>
>> Yes but how does it work? Do you like it?
>
> It works wonderfully! It also looks good in its own right, we think.
>
> Trouble is, we're in Yorkshire, England and our winter, while mild, is
> cold and damp. Getting the mass of the oven up to heat would take a lot of
> wood so we've only used it in summer. When I use it I make enough bread
> for a month at a time.
>
> The grandchildren love making pizzas to bake in it - nicely returning to
> the original post :-) It's great for parties, everyone wants to have a go.
>
> I could send you an album of pictures of the building if you liked.
>
> Mary
Thanks Mary. Nice to hear from someone that actuly has a brick oven and not
someone that trying to sell you one. Have a Good Christmas.


Joe Umstead

Joe Umstead wrote:
> Thanks Mary. Nice to hear from someone that actuly has a brick oven and not
> someone that trying to sell you one.
If you are interested in information from owners and users, you might
check out Yahoo Groups "Brock-oven" mailing list. An excellent
resource, and a good bunch of people. I'd like to have a brick oven,
but my wife seems to think it would be unattractive and that we'd have
to remove it whenever we moved.... so for now, no brick oven, and I lurk
over there.

Mike

....The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world...

Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

Mary Fisher wrote:

> "TG" > wrote in message ... if I had one of
> > those brick ovens like my dad used to have. mmm.
>
> Make one!
>
> We made ours earlier this year, brick inside, stone outside. 'The Bread
> Builders' was our inspiration.
>
> Mary


lol, I'd love to but I live on the top floor of an apartment block in
the centre of London. : - ) I don't think my neighbours would
appreciate me building in the communal garden. : - )

Jim

Mary Fisher wrote:

> "TG" > wrote in message ... if I had one of
> > those brick ovens like my dad used to have. mmm.
>
> Make one!
>
> We made ours earlier this year, brick inside, stone outside. 'The Bread
> Builders' was our inspiration.
>
> Mary


lol, I'd love to but I live on the top floor of an apartment block in
the centre of London. : - ) I don't think my neighbours would
appreciate me building in the communal garden. : - )

Jim

Mike Avery wrote:

> Peggy Fair wrote:

> However, very often I don't even use red sauces. I like to take a jar
> of prepared basil pesto, spread a generous amount on the pizza crust and
> top with shredded mozzarella cheese. A real treat!
>
> Mike

Hi Mike,

Yeah, pesto is really great on pizza but I just use some concentrated
tomato paste, basil, mozzarella, then salami, nice, simple and quick I
do, very occasionally if I have some left over I use a pasta sauce.
Italian food should be simple. Well that's what the Italians always
tell me. : - )

Jim

On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 16:32:23 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
> wrote:

>Trouble is, we're in Yorkshire, England and our winter, while mild, is cold
>and damp. Getting the mass of the oven up to heat would take a lot of wood
>so we've only used it in summer.

Howdy,

I wonder about that...

Let's assume that in the summer your oven is at a
temperature of 70F, and in the winder 45F.

That would be an extremely modest differential in
temperature when compared with the difference between either
and the baking temperature you need for the oven.

I doubt that you would notice the difference between winter
and summer in the amount of wood used to heat the oven to an
appropriate baking temperature.

Have you tried using it in the cooler weather?

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 16:32:23 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
> > wrote:
>
>> Trouble is, we're in Yorkshire, England and our winter, while mild, is cold
>> and damp. Getting the mass of the oven up to heat would take a lot of wood
>> so we've only used it in summer.
>
> Howdy,
>
> I wonder about that...
>
> Let's assume that in the summer your oven is at a
> temperature of 70F, and in the winder 45F.
>
> That would be an extremely modest differential in
> temperature when compared with the difference between either
> and the baking temperature you need for the oven.
>
> I doubt that you would notice the difference between winter
> and summer in the amount of wood used to heat the oven to an
> appropriate baking temperature.
>
> Have you tried using it in the cooler weather?
>
> All the best,

I agree. However she might be referring to the difficulty of making fire
with soggy wood. :-)