Working with the SDI starter. I think my starter is "active" and alright
because I can get it to "boil over" out of a 3/4 full jar. At least I have
assumed my starter is alright.

I have been following the recipe in the booklet I received. I get good
looking bread, good texture, moist, good rise during that process (at least
doubles in 2.5 hours) but it just doesn't taste sour. If I could add sour
to this bread, all my problems would be solved.

I am thinking that I need to extend the time during the sponge creation
process. Maybe wait 18 hours before feeding the sponge again (instead of 12
hours) and then wait another 18 hours before mixing the sponge up and
baking. But this is only a guess?

Ideas as to what I might be doing wrong?

I am in Oklahoma and getting SF Sourdough is not a viable option to me. The
stuff the bakery sells that they call sourdough is a joke.

Thanks,
Greg

Greg Horne wrote:
> Working with the SDI starter. I think my starter is "active" ..>
> I am thinking that I need to extend the time during the sponge creation
> process. ..> Ideas as to what I might be doing wrong?
>
> I am ..> Thanks,
> Greg

Hi Greg,

Starter activity is about the concentration or organisms, this is
constantly changing. You want the maximum number to raise you bread.
They can die as quickly as they grow so one day the starter can be
active and hours later it's pooped out.


The safest way to manipulate sour is to manipulate the temp. I am
fermenting my dough for 24 hours these days because it fits in with
work. At ambient temp of 16-18 C at the moment in my kitchen I'm not
getting any sour at all. Fine by me though. If I raise the temp to
about 25C when I get home for the final rise I will get some good
flavour balance. In the summer when the temp was getting up to 29C the
bread was far too sour for my taste. All this is irrespective of the
time the dough was fermented. Always try to make sure the starter is at
it's peak as this will give you the best crumb.

Jim

Which SDI starter are you using?

Dutch

"Greg Horne" > wrote in message
...
> Working with the SDI starter. I think my starter is "active" and alright
> because I can get it to "boil over" out of a 3/4 full jar. At least I
have
> assumed my starter is alright.

I am using the San Francisco Sourdough starter.

Greg


"dutch" > wrote in message
...
> Which SDI starter are you using?
>
> Dutch
>
> "Greg Horne" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Working with the SDI starter. I think my starter is "active" and alright
>> because I can get it to "boil over" out of a 3/4 full jar. At least I
> have
>> assumed my starter is alright.
>
>

Thanks. I will try manipulating the temperature some.

So far, I have made two batches with the second batch coming out better as
far as being like bread. In particular, the second batch had better
density, not as dense as the first batch.

The first batch I femented the sponge around 80F (oven with light on temp).
The second batch I fermented around 65F (indoor temp). I actually got
better activity at 65F which kind of surprised me. I thought warmer
temperatuers would speed up the activity.

I'll keep trying.

Greg


"TG" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Greg Horne wrote:
>> Working with the SDI starter. I think my starter is "active" ..>
>> I am thinking that I need to extend the time during the sponge creation
>> process. ..> Ideas as to what I might be doing wrong?
>>
>> I am ..> Thanks,
>> Greg
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> Starter activity is about the concentration or organisms, this is
> constantly changing. You want the maximum number to raise you bread.
> They can die as quickly as they grow so one day the starter can be
> active and hours later it's pooped out.
>
>
> The safest way to manipulate sour is to manipulate the temp. I am
> fermenting my dough for 24 hours these days because it fits in with
> work. At ambient temp of 16-18 C at the moment in my kitchen I'm not
> getting any sour at all. Fine by me though. If I raise the temp to
> about 25C when I get home for the final rise I will get some good
> flavour balance. In the summer when the temp was getting up to 29C the
> bread was far too sour for my taste. All this is irrespective of the
> time the dough was fermented. Always try to make sure the starter is at
> it's peak as this will give you the best crumb.
>
> Jim
>

Well, I have produced another batch and it too is not sour. I am getting
good action, at least it appears so during the sponge process and rising of
the bread. The bread is edible and is just fine. It just has no hint of
sour in it.

Batch 1: Sponge and rise process at 81F. Sponge fed after 12 hours, waited
another 12 hours to mix and knead.
Batch 2: Same times but kept things at room temperature. 66F.
Batch 3: Room temperature again, 66F but waited 18~20 hours or so for sponge
feeding and mix/knead.

I seemed to get a more lively sponge at room temperature.

Suggestions please. Really want some sourdough. Don't know if this is a
problem with my starter or not. Since I get good but not sour bread, I kind
of assume the starter is good but am not really sure.

Thanks,
Greg

"Greg Horne" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks. I will try manipulating the temperature some.
>
> So far, I have made two batches with the second batch coming out better as
> far as being like bread. In particular, the second batch had better
> density, not as dense as the first batch.
>
> The first batch I femented the sponge around 80F (oven with light on
> temp). The second batch I fermented around 65F (indoor temp). I actually
> got better activity at 65F which kind of surprised me. I thought warmer
> temperatuers would speed up the activity.
>
> I'll keep trying.
>
> Greg
>
>
> "TG" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>
>> Greg Horne wrote:
>>> Working with the SDI starter. I think my starter is "active" ..>
>>> I am thinking that I need to extend the time during the sponge creation
>>> process. ..> Ideas as to what I might be doing wrong?
>>>
>>> I am ..> Thanks,
>>> Greg
>>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> Starter activity is about the concentration or organisms, this is
>> constantly changing. You want the maximum number to raise you bread.
>> They can die as quickly as they grow so one day the starter can be
>> active and hours later it's pooped out.
>>
>>
>> The safest way to manipulate sour is to manipulate the temp. I am
>> fermenting my dough for 24 hours these days because it fits in with
>> work. At ambient temp of 16-18 C at the moment in my kitchen I'm not
>> getting any sour at all. Fine by me though. If I raise the temp to
>> about 25C when I get home for the final rise I will get some good
>> flavour balance. In the summer when the temp was getting up to 29C the
>> bread was far too sour for my taste. All this is irrespective of the
>> time the dough was fermented. Always try to make sure the starter is at
>> it's peak as this will give you the best crumb.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>
>

Greg Horne wrote:
> Thanks. I will try manipulating the temperature some.
>
> So far, I .. I actually got
> better activity at 65F which kind of surprised me. I thought warmer
> temperatuers would speed up the activity.
> Greg
>

Hi Greg,

Take care when making conclusion based on one batch of dough. So many
different things can affect how the starter and dough work. The more
starter you use the more it is important what you've done to that
starter previously. Without doing side by side tests it's very
difficult and often misleading to draw conclusions. Make it an
observation you plan to build on.

Good luck
Jim

Greg Horne wrote:
> Well, I have produced another batch and it too is not sour. I am getting
...
> I seemed to get a more lively sponge at room temperature.
>
> Suggestions please. ...
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
>

Hi Greg,

'Don't use a sponge' is the best suggestion. Use about 15 - 20% flour
in your starter to main dough flour this is about 3/4 cup of starter to
4 cups of flour. And try the 81F temp again. Make sure your starter is
fresh, don't ferment your starter for much longer than the peak. All
the big boys will tell you to ferment your dough not the starter. It's
good advice. Keep the temp the same and play around with the timing.
Careful not to over ferment the dough or you'll get no colour. Change
only one thing each bake. Take care with temps they affect the timing
quite a lot more than your intuition tells you.

Check out Dicky's instructions.doc. He also suggests a good way to
build the starter. Search his doc and give it some time. You'll make
great bread in no time. Forget all you've read previously. There's so
much crap around it's not even funny. As a new baker you've no way to
sift out the good from the bad. I suggest looking at Dicky's and Mike
Avery's sites and get good consistent results then if you still want to
go back and try the sponge thing you've got some good results to
compare it to. I've been going even further recently as I'm too busy to
do even an 8 hour fermentation. I go for 24 hours using an even smaller
amount of starter. Works well for my schedule.

Jim

On 22 Dec 2006 02:51:52 -0800, TG > wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
> Starter activity is about the concentration or organisms, this is
> constantly changing. You want the maximum number to raise you bread.
> They can die as quickly as they grow so one day the starter can be
> active and hours later it's pooped out.

Another perspective is that a well grown starter can be used to rise
excellent bread without bakers yeast, depending on procedure, in a
time window of a couple of hours to several days, maybe up to a week
when cooled.

Tried it, done it - works! Two weeks is getting iffy.

Samartha

Samartha Deva wrote:
> On 22 Dec 2006 02:51:52 -0800, TG > wrote:
>
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> > Starter activity is about the concentration or organisms, this is
> > constantly changing. You want the maximum number to raise you bread.
> > They can die as quickly as they grow so one day the starter can be
> > active and hours later it's pooped out.
>
> Another perspective is that a well grown starter can be used to rise
> excellent bread without bakers yeast, depending on procedure, in a
> time window of a couple of hours to several days, maybe up to a week
> when cooled.
>
> Tried it, done it - works! Two weeks is getting iffy.
>
> Samartha


I'm sure you're right Samartha, I'm a bit tired today are you saying
I'm wrong? Sorry, I'll have to put my smart head on when I get home.
Are you saying a badly grown starter can't be used to rise excellent
bread? Or are you saying that if the procedure is bad a well grown
starter is no good? May be you're saying all these things. Oh. I really
need my smart head today.

Jim

What he is saying is that if you have a healthy starter (and you know
what you are doing) you can manipulate your times from hours to days by
altering starter quantity, temperature, etc.
Sharon
TG wrote:
> Samartha Deva wrote:
> > On 22 Dec 2006 02:51:52 -0800, TG > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Greg,
> > >
> > > Starter activity is about the concentration or organisms, this is
> > > constantly changing. You want the maximum number to raise you bread.
> > > They can die as quickly as they grow so one day the starter can be
> > > active and hours later it's pooped out.
> >
> > Another perspective is that a well grown starter can be used to rise
> > excellent bread without bakers yeast, depending on procedure, in a
> > time window of a couple of hours to several days, maybe up to a week
> > when cooled.
> >
> > Tried it, done it - works! Two weeks is getting iffy.
> >
> > Samartha
>
>
> I'm sure you're right Samartha, I'm a bit tired today are you saying
> I'm wrong? Sorry, I'll have to put my smart head on when I get home.
> Are you saying a badly grown starter can't be used to rise excellent
> bread? Or are you saying that if the procedure is bad a well grown
> starter is no good? May be you're saying all these things. Oh. I really
> need my smart head today.
>
> Jim

wrote:
> What he is saying is that if you have a healthy starter (and you know
> what you are doing) you can manipulate your times from hours to days by
> altering starter quantity, temperature, etc.
> Sharon

My point was that the reply was a tad vague and therefor ambiguous. I
put the fault on myself out of being polite and for humour because I
realised Samartha was trying also to be polite. You doughnut. : -)

Jim