Hi - I've had good luck with my KitchenAid stand mixer. However, I bought
it over 10 years ago, and I've heard rumours that they aren't produced
with the same quality today as they used to be. Although I noticed the
other day that the King Arthur Flour company recommends a particular line
of KitchenAid mixers as still being very good. Prices on them have come
down substantially in the last 10 years too. I paid ~$450 (Cdn.) for mine,
and I can now get a comparable model for under $200.

I am very curious about the Magic Mill line, by Electrolux. They seem to
be a bit of an oddity in terms of their design, but I've seen comments
from people that suggest they're orders of magnitude better than any other
mixer for making bread.

Allan

* > 2003-10-29:
> I am very curious about the Magic Mill line, by Electrolux. They seem to
> be a bit of an oddity in terms of their design, but I've seen comments
> from people that suggest they're orders of magnitude better than any other
> mixer for making bread.

I have a Magic Mill DLX myself, but have also heard very good things
about Bosch mixers for making bread. You might want to check the
archives at:

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mixer-Owners>

--
Steve W
s (dot) wal (at) verizon (dot) net

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:20:31 -0500 (EST), wrote:

>Hi - I've had good luck with my KitchenAid stand mixer. However, I bought
>it over 10 years ago, and I've heard rumours that they aren't produced
>with the same quality today as they used to be.

Hi Allan,

Many years ago, the smallest Hobart mixer design was sold to
KitchenAid and became the familiar mixer we see today. The Hobart was
a true commercial mixer with all that implied. The KitchenAid version
was a fine home machine, but certainly not in the league of its
ancestor.

Ever since that transition, the rap on the KA has been that "they are
not as good as they used to be." That certainly may be true (ion the
sense of a deterioration in the quality of the post Hobart KA mixers,
but I do wonder how folks can assess that sort of thing. Most of us
would own one (or maybe two) in a lifetime rendering the comparison a
bit difficult.

One other thought:

The fact that the cost (even in inflated dollars) has come down would
concern me. These machines have not changed in very significant ways
in many years. Why would they be much cheaper to manufacture today
than years ago?

Enjoy whatever you decide to get!

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

I have a friend who has an Hobart commercial mixer. It's fabulous ... you
could knead lead in it.

I quite like my Kitchenaid ... and I think you're right ... it's hard to
determine whether the quality has truly dropped. I suspect the reason the
price has come down is because so many more are being sold. When I bought
mine, it was definitely a "specialty" item. There weren't that many places
in town that carried them. Now you can buy then anywhere ... they've become
very chic. Even people who can't cook seem to have them ...

In any case, I am intrigued by the Magic Mill ... the fact that it can
handle 25 cups of flour puts it almost in the same league as a small Hobart
....

Allan

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:20:31 -0500 (EST), wrote:
>
> >Hi - I've had good luck with my KitchenAid stand mixer. However, I bought
> >it over 10 years ago, and I've heard rumours that they aren't produced
> >with the same quality today as they used to be.
>
> Hi Allan,
>
> Many years ago, the smallest Hobart mixer design was sold to
> KitchenAid and became the familiar mixer we see today. The Hobart was
> a true commercial mixer with all that implied. The KitchenAid version
> was a fine home machine, but certainly not in the league of its
> ancestor.
>
> Ever since that transition, the rap on the KA has been that "they are
> not as good as they used to be." That certainly may be true (ion the
> sense of a deterioration in the quality of the post Hobart KA mixers,
> but I do wonder how folks can assess that sort of thing. Most of us
> would own one (or maybe two) in a lifetime rendering the comparison a
> bit difficult.
>
> One other thought:
>
> The fact that the cost (even in inflated dollars) has come down would
> concern me. These machines have not changed in very significant ways
> in many years. Why would they be much cheaper to manufacture today
> than years ago?
>
> Enjoy whatever you decide to get!
>
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:54:17 -0500, "Allan Risk" >
wrote:

>I have a friend who has an Hobart commercial mixer. It's fabulous ... you
>could knead lead in it.

Hi again Allen,

I should have mentioned that I have a 20qt Hobart. The thing is a
tank.

As you get more info about your other options, post 'em.

BTW, if you are happy with your KA, why replace it? Is it to increase
capacity?

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On 29 Oct 2003 at 17:29, Kenneth wrote:

> Many years ago, the smallest Hobart mixer design was sold to
> KitchenAid and became the familiar mixer we see today. The Hobart was
> a true commercial mixer with all that implied. The KitchenAid version
> was a fine home machine, but certainly not in the league of its
> ancestor.

I have to argue the point here. The KitchenAid made by Hobart
differed from a true commerical mixer in several important ways.

A commercial mixer has a geared transmission on it and is driven by a
single speed motor. Some have two or three speed motors, but these
speed changes are accomodated by activating seperate coils in the
motor.

The KitchenAids, then and now, have a variable speed motor. The
speed is changed by use of a rheostat, resistor divider network, or
some newer sort of "solid state speed control". The sad fact is that any
given motor design has an optimum working speed. Get too much out
of it, and you lose power. Low speeds and high power are very hard
on a motor. You get more power at higher speeds.

Of course, bread dough is a problem here. It's dense, thick, and
sticky. And has to be kneaded at lower speeds, where the motor
generates the least power. So, the motor heats up. I bought my
KitchenAid K45-SS mixer in the late 1970's, and the manual warns
against mixing or kneading too much dough, and warns a rest is
needed between batches of bread dough.

I have honored these warnings, and the mixer is still running fine. I
wonder how much of the decrease in reported reliability is because the
mixer is now sold to a wider audience, one who doesn't bother reading
the manual, and who feels, "for this much money, it should mix
concrete"?

Mike
--
Mike Avery

ICQ: 16241692 AOL IM:MAvery81230
Phone: 970-642-0280
* Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other
way *

A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
"I say we nuke the site from Orbit, it's the only way to be sure"

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:55:23 -0700, "Mike Avery"
> wrote:

>> Many years ago, the smallest Hobart mixer design was sold to
>> KitchenAid and became the familiar mixer we see today. The Hobart was
>> a true commercial mixer with all that implied. The KitchenAid version
>> was a fine home machine, but certainly not in the league of its
>> ancestor.
>
>I have to argue the point here. The KitchenAid made by Hobart
>differed from a true commerical mixer in several important ways.

>>>SNIP<<<

Hi Mike,

I don't know what I wrote that you disagree with.<g>

I wrote that the KA "was a fine home machine, but certainly not in the
league of its ancestor." You seem to be providing the mechanical
details.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

> BTW, if you are happy with your KA, why replace it? Is it to increase
capacity?

Partially. It's the smaller model (4.5 qt bowl), so you can't knead very
large quantities of bread dough. (However, I also do a lot of other baking
(cakes, in particular) for which the KA is great.) The other part is that
I'm just a gadget freak, I guess.

The Kitchen Aid mixer is good. Even the K45.

But if you are the sort which needs an SUV to go to the=20
store for 5 LBS of flour, you will need the Magic Mill, at
least.

--
DickA

Dick,

That's an unfair characterization. I own both a KA Pro mixer and a Magic
Mill (but no SUV). The KA is great for mixing cake batters and beating egg
whites but I've found that the Magic Mill is just the more efficient of the
two for mixing bread dough. I just can't get the gluten development with
the KA that I can with the Magic Mill without the KA seriously overheating.
Perhaps you would attribute this to a personal failure on my part. Perhaps
so. But I must ask... have you ever used a Magic Mill? If not, then any
comments you make regarding it should be suspect.

- Steve Brandt

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...
The Kitchen Aid mixer is good. Even the K45.

But if you are the sort which needs an SUV to go to the
store for 5 LBS of flour, you will need the Magic Mill, at
least.

I had a Kitchenaide 6qt pro, I'm not sure if I got a bad one or what,
it didn't last very long. The motor is computer controlled, that chip
went out on me after a few months. I brought it in and got it
serviced/fixed. A few months later I blew the 'transmission' out.
Brought it back to get fixed again, took it home and sold it. My
opinion is the kitchenaide is probably not the best option for mixing
bread, but its suited for more general purpose kitchen duty (blending
and mixing).

I bought a magic mill dlx and have been VERY hapy with it. I can mix
8 lbs of bagel dough without a problem. That would KILL any
kitchenaide product. The capacity of it amazes me everytime I use it.
I have made up to 10 lbs of multigrain dough in it, and it could
probably handle up to 12 or 14 lbs. I haven't really used it for
anything other than bread dough. It's easy to clean, fairly light
weight, and doesn't take up a huge amount of space.

Hope this helps,
Anton

Steve W > wrote in message >...
> * > 2003-10-29:
> > I am very curious about the Magic Mill line, by Electrolux. They seem to
> > be a bit of an oddity in terms of their design, but I've seen comments
> > from people that suggest they're orders of magnitude better than any other
> > mixer for making bread.
>
> I have a Magic Mill DLX myself, but have also heard very good things
> about Bosch mixers for making bread. You might want to check the
> archives at:
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mixer-Owners>

"Steve B" > wrote in message =
news:OUaob.44997$mZ5.270599@attbi_s54...
Dick,

That's an unfair characterization. I own both a KA Pro mixer and a =
Magic
Mill (but no SUV). The KA is great for mixing cake batters and beating =
egg
whites but I've found that the Magic Mill is just the more efficient of =
the
two for mixing bread dough. I just can't get the gluten development =
with
the KA that I can with the Magic Mill without the KA seriously =
overheating.
Perhaps you would attribute this to a personal failure on my part. =
Perhaps
so. But I must ask... have you ever used a Magic Mill? If not, then =
any
comments you make regarding it should be suspect.

- Steve Brandt

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...
The Kitchen Aid mixer is good. Even the K45.

But if you are the sort which needs an SUV to go to the
store for 5 LBS of flour, you will need the Magic Mill, at
least.

"Steve B" > wrote in message=20
news:OUaob.44997$mZ5.270599@attbi_s54...

> But I must ask... have you ever used a Magic Mill? If not, then any
comments you make regarding it should be suspect.

Nope, and I never drove a Ferrari. But my Toyota goes goes where
a Ferrari can go, and, with speed limits, about as fast.

> Perhaps you would attribute this to a personal failure on my part. =20

Vanity would be my guess.

Elsewhere, some ignorant person posted that=20

> kitchenaids are junk and their worm gears are made of plastic

My K45 KitchenAid mixer has one plastic piece in the gear train,=20
and that is a pinion, not a worm gear. It serves as a mechanical fuse,=20
having the purpose of protecting the rest of the mechanism. Years
ago, when I was new to the KA, I stripped one. The part cost=20
$10 at an appliance parts store, and took 20 min. to replace, well,=20
maybe 30.

It can handle about 4 pounds of dough -- that is two big loaves.
That could be an inconvenience for a large family. I had a shot at
a Magic Mill about a month ago for $100. It takes more space than
the KA, and can make at a time more bread than we eat in a month.

I doubt it facilitates the making of better bread than can be made with
the KA, or even by hand kneading.

KA bashing is a sport for ignoramuses.

--=20
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com

If the below applies to mixers than it could be said that Wonderbread
is equal to homemade sourdough.

Anton


> Nope, and I never drove a Ferrari. But my Toyota goes goes where
> a Ferrari can go, and, with speed limits, about as fast.
>

"Anton S." > wrote in message =
om...

> > Nope, and I never drove a Ferrari. But my Toyota goes goes where
> > a Ferrari can go, and, with speed limits, about as fast.

> If the below applies to mixers than it could be said that Wonderbread
> is equal to homemade sourdough.

No exactly. Wonder Bread is capital intensive. Home-made breads need
only an oven, and for the manually challenged, a modest mixer.

---
DickA