Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

I've been hunting for a recipe for hard Italian rolls suitable for subs. I've
found a few suggestions based on baguettes, cuban rolls and various soft
rolls, but I am particularly fond of the rolls used for subs in South Boston
thirty of so years ago which were quite different.

My wife is actually the baker and she is a serious sourdough fan, so it would
be greatly preferred if I could find a sourdough recipe.

Any help?

Thank you.

--
Robert L. Knighten

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

"Robert Knighten" > wrote in message
...

> rolls used for subs in South Boston thirty of so years ago
> which were quite different.

Different how?

Could it be that some old-timers in old-time South Boston
bakeries might have some memories left?

Recipe probably is flour, water, salt, & leavening. All the
rest is in the details.

Like what equipment is available, for instance?

(Could the Schlotsky Bun be substituted?? -- "Bob" is working
on that.)

(How do you think a Baloney Sandwich on a Schlotsky Bun,
served with Kimchee, would go over in South Boston?)

---
DickA

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:54:19 GMT, "Dick Adams" >
wrote:

>> rolls used for subs in South Boston thirty of so years ago
>> which were quite different.

>(Could the Schlotsky Bun be substituted?? -- "Bob" is working
>on that.)

Not any more. I can make sourdough that is far better than anything
Schlotzsky's has to offer. The technique to making bread with such an
open crumb is to make it very slack.

>(How do you think a Baloney Sandwich on a Schlotsky Bun,
>served with Kimchee, would go over in South Boston?)

Not baloney, fer crap sakes. You put deep-fried lemon-herb catfish on
a sourdough bun.

And once you get hooked on kimchi, you will want it at every meal as
well as for a snack.

Why are all the really great tasting things in life fermented, such as
beer, sourdough, kimchi, etc.?


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

On 12 Dec 2003 19:38:58 -0800, Robert Knighten >
wrote:

> I am particularly fond of the rolls used for subs in South Boston
>thirty of so years ago which were quite different.

Hi Robert,

Please say more about 'em. Anything you can remember may trigger ideas
that will allow folks her to point you in the right direction.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:27:45 -0500, Kenneth
> wrote:

>folks her

Ooops... "folks here"

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

Dick Adams wrote:

> (How do you think a Baloney Sandwich on a Schlotsky Bun,
> served with Kimchee, would go over in South Boston?)

Sounds good to me, it must be lunch time!

Heather
_amaryllisATyahooDOTcom

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

"Kenneth" >
wrote in message ...

> Anything you can remember may trigger ideas that will
> allow folks her to point you in the right direction.

Wrong directions are also among the possibilities.

Beware of nOObie nOnsense (and Senior Senescence).

And Audacious Assholishiness ...

---
Yours truly,
DickA

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 21:15:08 GMT, Darva Conger >
wrote:

>>And once you get hooked on kimchi, you will want it at every meal as
>>well as for a snack.

>as long as you eat it in the dark and don't have to look at it.

You don't like your food staring back at you?


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

Kenneth > writes:

>
> Please say more about 'em. Anything you can remember may trigger ideas
> that will allow folks her to point you in the right direction.
>

About the size of a Subway roll - a foot long and about the same height - but
a crusty roll with a much more substantial distribution of bubbles. A light
bread - certainly no more than 8 oz. for a loaf, but also a reasonably tough
bread so there is something to chew. And of course some actual flavor to the
bread.

Do any of you make your own sub rolls? If so how do you do it?

--
Robert L. Knighten

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

"Robert Knighten" > wrote in message
...

> About the size of a Subway roll - a foot long and about the same =
height - but
> a crusty roll with a much more substantial distribution of bubbles. A =
light
> bread - certainly no more than 8 oz. for a loaf, but also a reasonably =
tough
> bread so there is something to chew. And of course some actual flavor =
to the
> bread.

You might check out
http://www.cookingwithcrack.com/bread/sequence2/
which covers most of the bases for the kind of bread you
seem to be seeking.

It's a fatter loaf than for a sub sandwich, but that is easy to
fix. Use of small amount of kamut flour is entirely optional,
as I see it.

> Do any of you make your own sub rolls? If so how do you do it?

Not me. Skinny loaves dry out fast, and require more work to
shape, since a dough batch yields more such loaves. But the
small loaves are more likely to get a holey crumb when "proofed"
and baked in the usual way (on a preheated "stone").

The technique of "proofing" multiple loaves in folds of linen cloth,
and flipping them onto a "peel", "slashing", and sliding* onto the
hot stone might be useful. Otherwise the use of baguette pans
like Marcella likes, can be useful.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...208122003@net=
news.attbi.com
(Nice photo there!)

* Peel sprinkled with granular matter to facilitate sliding. The
variety of possibilities for such granules stimulates long threads
whenever the subject comes up.

--
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

BEHOLD! The latest in newbie bashing from MR. Adams, otherwise known as Ben
A, Newbie-Never.

As usual has nothing to contribute, so lashes out with viciousness and
degradation.

Don't despair he may come up with something that will do more than take up
computer space yet.

Hail to our omnipotent sourdough guru. Long may he diatribe!

Hey gang, maybe we could chip in and buy Mr. A. a basket weaving kit. Does
wonders for the mentally ill I am told.

AB

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kenneth" >
> wrote in message ...
>
> > Anything you can remember may trigger ideas that will
> > allow folks her to point you in the right direction.
>
> Wrong directions are also among the possibilities.
>
> Beware of nOObie nOnsense (and Senior Senescence).
>
> And Audacious Assholishiness ...
>
> ---
> Yours truly,
> DickA
>
>
>

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:44:54 GMT, "ab" > wrote:

>BEHOLD! The latest in newbie bashing from MR. Adams, otherwise known as Ben
>A, Newbie-Never.
>
>As usual has nothing to contribute, so lashes out with viciousness and
>degradation.
>
>Don't despair he may come up with something that will do more than take up
>computer space yet.
>
>Hail to our omnipotent sourdough guru. Long may he diatribe!
>
>Hey gang, maybe we could chip in and buy Mr. A. a basket weaving kit. Does
>wonders for the mentally ill I am told.

A new crock pot, perhaps.

The one he has now is filled with rye glop that has hardened like
cement from trying to cook it on a Low setting.

Anyone who has ever cooked rye glop in a crock pot knows you have to
set it on High. <jeez>


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

"ab" > wrote in message =
...

> [ ... ] ( full requote of =
)

> BEHOLD! The latest in newbie bashing from MR. Adams ... =20

Jeez, Mr. AB-Man, if you hated it, why'd you play it all again?

"Bob" > wrote in message =


> [ ... ] ( full requote of all the above)

(Yet another crock-pot crack) (deleted)

Can't guess what it was that you One-name nOObies took personally,
including the one who doesn't quite have even one name.

(Fractional-name nOObie!)

r.f.s. FAQ quide at http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html

Newcomer tips at http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/newcomertips.html

(Please see Newcomer Tips, Item. # 4.)

---
( )
(nO-name NOObie)

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

"Dick Adams" > writes:

>
> You might check out
> http://www.cookingwithcrack.com/bread/sequence2/
> which covers most of the bases for the kind of bread you
> seem to be seeking.
>
> It's a fatter loaf than for a sub sandwich, but that is easy to
> fix. Use of small amount of kamut flour is entirely optional,
> as I see it.
>
> > Do any of you make your own sub rolls? If so how do you do it?
>
> Not me. Skinny loaves dry out fast, and require more work to
> shape, since a dough batch yields more such loaves. But the
> small loaves are more likely to get a holey crumb when "proofed"
> and baked in the usual way (on a preheated "stone").
>

Thank you for the pointers, but it's exactly the "easy to fix" transition to a
sub size roll that has not proved easy here. I've got both loaves such as
shown on that website, and fist sized rolls produced with extra pizza dough
and baked on a very hot stone much as I bake pizza. But no success with the
sub rolls. [I should say again that my wife is really the baker - even with
the pizza she makes the dough which I bake.]

--
Robert L. Knighten

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

"Robert Knighten" > wrote in message
...
> Thank you for the pointers, but it's exactly the "easy to fix" transition
to a
> sub size roll that has not proved easy here. I've got both loaves such as
> shown on that website, and fist sized rolls produced with extra pizza
dough
> and baked on a very hot stone much as I bake pizza. But no success with
the
> sub rolls. [I should say again that my wife is really the baker - even
with
> the pizza she makes the dough which I bake.]
>
> --
> Robert L. Knighten
>

Will this work?

http://tinyurl.com/z7sy

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

On 14 Dec 2003 12:53:27 -0800, Robert Knighten >
wrote:

>But no success with the
>sub rolls.

Hi Bob,

What went wrong...?

Also, when you mention the very hot oven for the pizza, how hot?

Small rolls should be baked rather quickly on the order of 475 or
500°F. Steam would also help...

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

"Janet Bostwick" > writes:

>
> Will this work?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/z7sy
>

Thank you for the pointer. Did you have any particular recipe in mind? There
are a couple that look promising, but none appear to be specifically what I want.

--
Robert L. Knighten

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

Kenneth > writes:

> On 14 Dec 2003 12:53:27 -0800, Robert Knighten >
> wrote:
>
> >But no success with the sub rolls.
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> What went wrong...?
>

Well there have been numerous attempts and each time the failure has been
different. The most basic has been either that the rolls have been two small
(not enough rise) or too dense, though there has also been the case of having
such large holes the roll was unusable for something like a meatball sub.

> Also, when you mention the very hot oven for the pizza, how hot?
>
> Small rolls should be baked rather quickly on the order of 475 or
> 500°F. Steam would also help...
>

Exactly - 500 degree oven with a thoroughly preheated heavy stone just as I
use for pizza. As I say small fist sized rolls baked this way have worked
very well.

--
Robert L. Knighten

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

"Robert Knighten" > wrote in message
...
> Thank you for the pointer. Did you have any particular recipe in mind?
There
> are a couple that look promising, but none appear to be specifically what
I want.
>
> --
> Robert L. Knighten
>

I'm sorry, I don't do sub rolls myself. I couldn't tell from your posting
whether you(wife) were having difficulty getting the shape right or if the
recipe/baking portion was the problem.

Janet

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:21:11 -0700, "Janet Bostwick"
> wrote:

>Will this work?

>http://tinyurl.com/z7sy

As I pointed out before, KA's website changes the URL periodically.
Whatever that tinyurl pointed to is now gone.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

Want recipe for hard Italian rolls
 

Robert Knighten wrote:
>
> Well there have been numerous attempts and each time the failure has been
> different.

I have experienced that frustration. You have to do what you
have to do so that you make a consistant product, even if it is
not exactly what you are trying to achieve. Then change one
thing at a time and try to move towards the ultimate goal. A
scale, thermometer, and a logbook are helpful.

FWIW, when I was working on hamburger buns, I found that I had to
proof the buns longer than I thought I should. Also, I had the
best luck baking in a medium oven ~375F. If you are going for a
crisp crust, then a lean dough and a hot oven is a place to
start. The point is that just because you are making a small
bread, you should not automatically assume a hot or very hot oven
is what you need. Good luck.

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

OT: Baguette Pan was Recipe Italian rolls
 

<< Otherwise the use of baguette pans like Marcella likes, can be useful.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...208122003@net=
news.attbi.com
(Nice photo there!) >>

Marcella,
as it was pointed out, that is a great looking loaf of bread. I've been trying
to analyze the features in that photo because I would like to made french
loaves in that style. One feature that stood out was the attractive golden
crust (not to mention the nice holes and balanced shape). The only times I
achieve something that color and texture was using my (round) Bread Cloche
where the bread is basically in steam for upwards of 25 minutes, but my cloche
won't fit a long french loaf. Did you use a Baguette Cloche for that loaf? If
so, now I need to get one of those too. Do you remember how you baked that
bread - any tips? Thanks for sharing the pic.

Ed

OT: Baguette Pan was Recipe Italian rolls
 

In article >,
ojunk (Ed Bechtel) wrote:

> << Otherwise the use of baguette pans like Marcella likes, can be useful.
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...208122003@net=
> news.attbi.com
> (Nice photo there!) >>
>
> Marcella,
> as it was pointed out, that is a great looking loaf of bread. I've been
> trying
> to analyze the features in that photo because I would like to made french
> loaves in that style. One feature that stood out was the attractive golden
> crust (not to mention the nice holes and balanced shape). The only times I
> achieve something that color and texture was using my (round) Bread Cloche
> where the bread is basically in steam for upwards of 25 minutes, but my
> cloche
> won't fit a long french loaf. Did you use a Baguette Cloche for that loaf?
> If
> so, now I need to get one of those too. Do you remember how you baked that
> bread - any tips? Thanks for sharing the pic.
>
> Ed
>

For years I got ugly colored crusts on my bread. Then I read in The
Baker's Apprentice about adding 1 t of malt powder (I get it from King
Arthur) What an enormous difference. From grey to golden just like
that. I had tried so many different brands of flour, but this one
little thing made a huge difference in my bread's appearance.

Actually, I baked this loaf while working my way through that book last
year. So, I used his method for steam as well. Lower rack has a baking
stone on it. Upper rack is in the top position and holds a cast iron
skillet. Preheat. When you are ready to bake, place the bread on the
baking stone and 1 C boiling water is poured into the cast iron pan.
Close the door and let it steam away.

I use those baguette or maybe it's french loaf pans. It is perforated
metal shaped kind of like a "W" but round instead of pointy. It makes
two good sized loaves. I line it with a sheet of parchment. If I
don't, I find that the dough rises through all those perferations and I
cannot remove the loaf of bread after baking as it has grown to the pan.
These pans are the only way I can deal with a slack dough and get loaf
shaped bread instead of inch high pancakes.

hope this helps
marcella

OT: Baguette Pan was Recipe Italian rolls
 

Thanks Marcella,
That steam method is similar to the one I've been using except my skillet is
underneath the stone. Can't remember who suggested the hot skillet plus
boiling water underneath method, but man does it impart a lot of kilocalories
into the loaf. Took photo sequence and will share when I get uploaded to web
next weekend. I will also try your method - maybe will keep crust from getting
so dark.

Ed