I've been hunting for a recipe for hard Italian rolls suitable for subs. I've
found a few suggestions based on baguettes, cuban rolls and various soft
rolls, but I am particularly fond of the rolls used for subs in South Boston
thirty of so years ago which were quite different.

My wife is actually the baker and she is a serious sourdough fan, so it would
be greatly preferred if I could find a sourdough recipe.

Any help?

Thank you.

--
Robert L. Knighten

"Robert Knighten" > wrote in message
...

> rolls used for subs in South Boston thirty of so years ago
> which were quite different.

Different how?

Could it be that some old-timers in old-time South Boston
bakeries might have some memories left?

Recipe probably is flour, water, salt, & leavening. All the
rest is in the details.

Like what equipment is available, for instance?

(Could the Schlotsky Bun be substituted?? -- "Bob" is working
on that.)

(How do you think a Baloney Sandwich on a Schlotsky Bun,
served with Kimchee, would go over in South Boston?)

---
DickA

Dick Adams wrote:

> (How do you think a Baloney Sandwich on a Schlotsky Bun,
> served with Kimchee, would go over in South Boston?)

Sounds good to me, it must be lunch time!

Heather
_amaryllisATyahooDOTcom

On 12 Dec 2003 19:38:58 -0800, Robert Knighten >
wrote:

> I am particularly fond of the rolls used for subs in South Boston
>thirty of so years ago which were quite different.

Hi Robert,

Please say more about 'em. Anything you can remember may trigger ideas
that will allow folks her to point you in the right direction.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:27:45 -0500, Kenneth
> wrote:

>folks her

Ooops... "folks here"

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" >
wrote in message ...

> Anything you can remember may trigger ideas that will
> allow folks her to point you in the right direction.

Wrong directions are also among the possibilities.

Beware of nOObie nOnsense (and Senior Senescence).

And Audacious Assholishiness ...

---
Yours truly,
DickA

BEHOLD! The latest in newbie bashing from MR. Adams, otherwise known as Ben
A, Newbie-Never.

As usual has nothing to contribute, so lashes out with viciousness and
degradation.

Don't despair he may come up with something that will do more than take up
computer space yet.

Hail to our omnipotent sourdough guru. Long may he diatribe!

Hey gang, maybe we could chip in and buy Mr. A. a basket weaving kit. Does
wonders for the mentally ill I am told.

AB

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kenneth" >
> wrote in message ...
>
> > Anything you can remember may trigger ideas that will
> > allow folks her to point you in the right direction.
>
> Wrong directions are also among the possibilities.
>
> Beware of nOObie nOnsense (and Senior Senescence).
>
> And Audacious Assholishiness ...
>
> ---
> Yours truly,
> DickA
>
>
>

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:44:54 GMT, "ab" > wrote:

>BEHOLD! The latest in newbie bashing from MR. Adams, otherwise known as Ben
>A, Newbie-Never.
>
>As usual has nothing to contribute, so lashes out with viciousness and
>degradation.
>
>Don't despair he may come up with something that will do more than take up
>computer space yet.
>
>Hail to our omnipotent sourdough guru. Long may he diatribe!
>
>Hey gang, maybe we could chip in and buy Mr. A. a basket weaving kit. Does
>wonders for the mentally ill I am told.

A new crock pot, perhaps.

The one he has now is filled with rye glop that has hardened like
cement from trying to cook it on a Low setting.

Anyone who has ever cooked rye glop in a crock pot knows you have to
set it on High. <jeez>


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

"ab" > wrote in message =
...

> [ ... ] ( full requote of =
)

> BEHOLD! The latest in newbie bashing from MR. Adams ... =20

Jeez, Mr. AB-Man, if you hated it, why'd you play it all again?

"Bob" > wrote in message =


> [ ... ] ( full requote of all the above)

(Yet another crock-pot crack) (deleted)

Can't guess what it was that you One-name nOObies took personally,
including the one who doesn't quite have even one name.

(Fractional-name nOObie!)

r.f.s. FAQ quide at http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html

Newcomer tips at http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/newcomertips.html

(Please see Newcomer Tips, Item. # 4.)

---
( )
(nO-name NOObie)

Kenneth > writes:

>
> Please say more about 'em. Anything you can remember may trigger ideas
> that will allow folks her to point you in the right direction.
>

About the size of a Subway roll - a foot long and about the same height - but
a crusty roll with a much more substantial distribution of bubbles. A light
bread - certainly no more than 8 oz. for a loaf, but also a reasonably tough
bread so there is something to chew. And of course some actual flavor to the
bread.

Do any of you make your own sub rolls? If so how do you do it?

--
Robert L. Knighten

"Robert Knighten" > wrote in message
...

> About the size of a Subway roll - a foot long and about the same =
height - but
> a crusty roll with a much more substantial distribution of bubbles. A =
light
> bread - certainly no more than 8 oz. for a loaf, but also a reasonably =
tough
> bread so there is something to chew. And of course some actual flavor =
to the
> bread.

You might check out
http://www.cookingwithcrack.com/bread/sequence2/
which covers most of the bases for the kind of bread you
seem to be seeking.

It's a fatter loaf than for a sub sandwich, but that is easy to
fix. Use of small amount of kamut flour is entirely optional,
as I see it.

> Do any of you make your own sub rolls? If so how do you do it?

Not me. Skinny loaves dry out fast, and require more work to
shape, since a dough batch yields more such loaves. But the
small loaves are more likely to get a holey crumb when "proofed"
and baked in the usual way (on a preheated "stone").

The technique of "proofing" multiple loaves in folds of linen cloth,
and flipping them onto a "peel", "slashing", and sliding* onto the
hot stone might be useful. Otherwise the use of baguette pans
like Marcella likes, can be useful.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...208122003@net=
news.attbi.com
(Nice photo there!)

* Peel sprinkled with granular matter to facilitate sliding. The
variety of possibilities for such granules stimulates long threads
whenever the subject comes up.

--
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com

"Dick Adams" > writes:

>
> You might check out
> http://www.cookingwithcrack.com/bread/sequence2/
> which covers most of the bases for the kind of bread you
> seem to be seeking.
>
> It's a fatter loaf than for a sub sandwich, but that is easy to
> fix. Use of small amount of kamut flour is entirely optional,
> as I see it.
>
> > Do any of you make your own sub rolls? If so how do you do it?
>
> Not me. Skinny loaves dry out fast, and require more work to
> shape, since a dough batch yields more such loaves. But the
> small loaves are more likely to get a holey crumb when "proofed"
> and baked in the usual way (on a preheated "stone").
>

Thank you for the pointers, but it's exactly the "easy to fix" transition to a
sub size roll that has not proved easy here. I've got both loaves such as
shown on that website, and fist sized rolls produced with extra pizza dough
and baked on a very hot stone much as I bake pizza. But no success with the
sub rolls. [I should say again that my wife is really the baker - even with
the pizza she makes the dough which I bake.]

--
Robert L. Knighten

"Robert Knighten" > wrote in message
...
> Thank you for the pointers, but it's exactly the "easy to fix" transition
to a
> sub size roll that has not proved easy here. I've got both loaves such as
> shown on that website, and fist sized rolls produced with extra pizza
dough
> and baked on a very hot stone much as I bake pizza. But no success with
the
> sub rolls. [I should say again that my wife is really the baker - even
with
> the pizza she makes the dough which I bake.]
>
> --
> Robert L. Knighten
>

Will this work?

http://tinyurl.com/z7sy

On 14 Dec 2003 12:53:27 -0800, Robert Knighten >
wrote:

>But no success with the
>sub rolls.

Hi Bob,

What went wrong...?

Also, when you mention the very hot oven for the pizza, how hot?

Small rolls should be baked rather quickly on the order of 475 or
500°F. Steam would also help...

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

<< Otherwise the use of baguette pans like Marcella likes, can be useful.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...208122003@net=
news.attbi.com
(Nice photo there!) >>

Marcella,
as it was pointed out, that is a great looking loaf of bread. I've been trying
to analyze the features in that photo because I would like to made french
loaves in that style. One feature that stood out was the attractive golden
crust (not to mention the nice holes and balanced shape). The only times I
achieve something that color and texture was using my (round) Bread Cloche
where the bread is basically in steam for upwards of 25 minutes, but my cloche
won't fit a long french loaf. Did you use a Baguette Cloche for that loaf? If
so, now I need to get one of those too. Do you remember how you baked that
bread - any tips? Thanks for sharing the pic.

Ed

In article >,
ojunk (Ed Bechtel) wrote:

> << Otherwise the use of baguette pans like Marcella likes, can be useful.
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...208122003@net=
> news.attbi.com
> (Nice photo there!) >>
>
> Marcella,
> as it was pointed out, that is a great looking loaf of bread. I've been
> trying
> to analyze the features in that photo because I would like to made french
> loaves in that style. One feature that stood out was the attractive golden
> crust (not to mention the nice holes and balanced shape). The only times I
> achieve something that color and texture was using my (round) Bread Cloche
> where the bread is basically in steam for upwards of 25 minutes, but my
> cloche
> won't fit a long french loaf. Did you use a Baguette Cloche for that loaf?
> If
> so, now I need to get one of those too. Do you remember how you baked that
> bread - any tips? Thanks for sharing the pic.
>
> Ed
>

For years I got ugly colored crusts on my bread. Then I read in The
Baker's Apprentice about adding 1 t of malt powder (I get it from King
Arthur) What an enormous difference. From grey to golden just like
that. I had tried so many different brands of flour, but this one
little thing made a huge difference in my bread's appearance.

Actually, I baked this loaf while working my way through that book last
year. So, I used his method for steam as well. Lower rack has a baking
stone on it. Upper rack is in the top position and holds a cast iron
skillet. Preheat. When you are ready to bake, place the bread on the
baking stone and 1 C boiling water is poured into the cast iron pan.
Close the door and let it steam away.

I use those baguette or maybe it's french loaf pans. It is perforated
metal shaped kind of like a "W" but round instead of pointy. It makes
two good sized loaves. I line it with a sheet of parchment. If I
don't, I find that the dough rises through all those perferations and I
cannot remove the loaf of bread after baking as it has grown to the pan.
These pans are the only way I can deal with a slack dough and get loaf
shaped bread instead of inch high pancakes.

hope this helps
marcella