On 5 Aug 2007, at 19:27, wrote:

>> Instead of attacking each others comments why not behave like adults
>> and just answer the questions Paul asked in the 1st place.
>>
>
>
> I love that comment! You have my vote

Ah, now I see the confusion. This isn't an election nor is it a TV
game show like Big Brother. It's a discussion group. That's a group
where people discuss ideas.

It's interesting though that the ones that are implying that the
people that participate so much over many years and give so much of
the help in this group are childish. Now which ones are being
personal and out of order? I think the ones that need to look at
their choice of words are the ones throwing personal insults. Join in
the discussion about bread and stop expecting people to be just how
you want them to be. This is the real world not your personal VR game
where you call the shots. Accept what the good people of this group
offer as participation or if you don't have the good nature to do
that just stop reading.

Jim

Jim wrote:
> On 5 Aug 2007, at 19:27, > wrote:
>
>>> Instead of attacking each others comments why not behave like adults
>>> and just answer the questions Paul asked in the 1st place.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I love that comment! You have my vote
>
> Ah, now I see the confusion.

It's not confusion - people try to appear smart, or think they are and
other's buying into it.

So - let's give the poster some honors, how about:

Most informative sourdough related first time post to this group ever:
Grow Up!

Or - if that's too much, it could be narrowed down to - this decade,
year, month, week.

(Does this "adult" thing translate into finally getting the rise issue
together? My thinking is that most folks here got this down pat.)

Who would have thought that the SD NG should become "adult only"
material? A horrible idea.

Any thoughts?

Sam

Jim wrote:
> On 5 Aug 2007, at 19:27, > wrote:
>
>>> Instead of attacking each others comments why not behave like adults
>>> and just answer the questions Paul asked in the 1st place.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I love that comment! You have my vote
>
> Ah, now I see the confusion. This isn't an election nor is it a TV game
> show like Big Brother. It's a discussion group. That's a group where
> people discuss ideas.
>
> It's interesting though that the ones that are implying that the people
> that participate so much over many years and give so much of the help in
> this group are childish. Now which ones are being personal and out of
> order? I think the ones that need to look at their choice of words are
> the ones throwing personal insults. Join in the discussion about bread
> and stop expecting people to be just how you want them to be. This is
> the real world not your personal VR game where you call the
> shots. Accept what the good people of this group offer as participation
> or if you don't have the good nature to do that just stop reading.
>
> Jim

Real world... here?????

Here on Usenet you still have your typical schoolyard bullies that never
grew up so they come to Usenet to bully folks here. In the 'real'
world, their actions would just get them a punch in the mouth or worse
these days, but here on Usenet they think they are 'free' to abuse as
'they' see fit because they feel 'safe' behind their computer instead of
feeling 'safe' behind 10 buddies like when they used to bully on the
schoolyard.

This group isn't near as bad as some, that's for sure...

Mike

On 6 Aug 2007, at 15:51, Mike Romain wrote:

> Real world... here?????


Lol, well if this is not real, what is? Or are you getting very deep
and getting into the true nature of reality. But then from which
point of view would you like to tackle that issue. Essentially it's
the only reality I have at the moment. I'm real in a conventional
sense as is this text in that it can be read by different readers who
will independently designate a similar meaning to it.

> Here on Usenet you still have your typical schoolyard bullies that
> never
> grew up so they come to Usenet to bully folks here.

In order for someone to be a bully they must technically have some
power over the bullied. If there is no power then there can be no
bullying. It isn't the same as a children's forum where the users are
known socially to each other outside of the group. And by the way
there is no owner to this group who wields ultimate power to kick
your ass into line if you don't do as they say. So there can be, by
definition, no bullies here. At least no more than in that yahoo
group populated by a bunch of baying banshees who would drive you out
for not toeing their knitted line of sugar wool.

> In the 'real'
> world, their actions would just get them a punch in the mouth

Well here no one can be hurt by discussing bread as we were. If
things get personal and the only person to get personal on this
thread, ironically is Caro, then it usually gets sorted out. The
abuser gets a dressing down and made to look as dumb as there truly are.

> but here on Usenet they think they are 'free' to abuse as
> 'they' see fit because they feel 'safe' behind their computer


If anyone reading in the news group sees something they don't like
they have the choice to stop reading and hit the delete button. No
one is forced to read these posts. Get some perspective and crawl out
of that political crap hole. Lighten up and take some responsibility
for your own actions and give others the credit for the same. The
world isn't populated by a load of weak, feeble idiots who need their
hands holding and their arses wiped.

Jim

Jim wrote:
> On 6 Aug 2007, at 15:51, Mike Romain wrote:
>
>
>> Here on Usenet you still have your typical schoolyard bullies that never
>> grew up so they come to Usenet to bully folks here.
>
> In order for someone to be a bully they must technically have some power
> over the bullied. If there is no power then there can be no bullying.

Sure they have power. They have the power to disrupt a group and they
have the power to make folks feel unwelcome in a group. When folks
leave or get ****ed at them, that justifies the power trip they are on
in their own small minds so they start again with the next one that
threatens 'their' way of doing things, imaginary or otherwise.

I am a member of one Usenet group that has been totally overrun by
'bullies' making the group not usable due to all the flack one bully has
had come back at him from 'imaginary' affronts. The ratio of abuse to
real threads is well over 100 to one now. Anyone new browsing the group
would just go away. This one bully actually thinks he is helping the
group, not killing it and is so 'off' no one can convince him otherwise.
Watching someone go senile over the course of a couple years is painful.

Mike

Totally agree with everything you said Mike....the reason I mentioned
anything in the 1st place was because I thought it was offensive and
CHILDISH the way Jim and his henchmen were lording it over others
(bullying is a good word) You could have corrected someone by replying
respectfully instead of slamming everything they said and behaving
like you are on a power trip. To sum it all up it appears only
certified "OLD FOSSILS" have anything worthwhile to contribute in this
group, newbies aren't going to get a look in unless they are asking
for advice.

Jim I think you've bee eating too much "SOUR" dough.





On Aug 7, 5:47 am, Mike Romain > wrote:
> Jim wrote:
> > On 6 Aug 2007, at 15:51, Mike Romain wrote:
>
> >> Here on Usenet you still have your typical schoolyard bullies that never
> >> grew up so they come to Usenet to bully folks here.
>
> > In order for someone to be a bully they must technically have some power
> > over the bullied. If there is no power then there can be no bullying.
>
> Sure they have power. They have the power to disrupt a group and they
> have the power to make folks feel unwelcome in a group. When folks
> leave or get ****ed at them, that justifies the power trip they are on
> in their own small minds so they start again with the next one that
> threatens 'their' way of doing things, imaginary or otherwise.
>
> I am a member of one Usenet group that has been totally overrun by
> 'bullies' making the group not usable due to all the flack one bully has
> had come back at him from 'imaginary' affronts. The ratio of abuse to
> real threads is well over 100 to one now. Anyone new browsing the group
> would just go away. This one bully actually thinks he is helping the
> group, not killing it and is so 'off' no one can convince him otherwise.
> Watching someone go senile over the course of a couple years is painful.
>
> Mike

On 6 Aug 2007, at 18:47, Mike Romain wrote:

> Sure they have power. They have the power to disrupt a group and they
> have the power to make folks feel unwelcome in a group. When folks
> leave or get ****ed at them, that justifies the power trip they are on
> in their own small minds so they start again with the next one that
> threatens 'their' way of doing things, imaginary or otherwise.
>
> I am a member of one Usenet group that has been totally overrun by
> 'bullies' making the group not usable due to all the flack one
> bully has
> had come back at him from 'imaginary' affronts. The ratio of abuse to
> real threads is well over 100 to one now. Anyone new browsing the
> group
> would just go away. This one bully actually thinks he is helping the
> group, not killing it and is so 'off' no one can convince him
> otherwise.
> Watching someone go senile over the course of a couple years is
> painful.
>
> Mike

Mike, life will never be perfect and people will absolutely never be
perfect especially in this nihilistic age that we are living in. To
try to control the minds of others as you are is a totally futile
exercise, I really do appreciate what you are saying and what you
would like to do but you just can't do it. To try to change everyone
in the world you have a problem with is apart from being incredibly
arrogant, rude and not to mention utterly ignorant as to the way we
see the world, it is akin to trying to cover the world in carpet in
order to protect your feet. It is much simpler to wear shoes, to
change the way you view others. Simply to accept their differences,
it is a much more civilised thing to do as well. After all you are
telling us by your voicing of your dislike of this 'unacceptable'
behaviour how civilised you are. No disrespect to you Mike but I have
seen such hypocrisy in other groups. It's fine to disregard another's
rites when we see that person as not what we would like. It's fine
for us to be far more uncivilised as the person we are focusing our
hostility onto when we think we are being moral. Well no, it's not.
Being a snob does not make you a civilised, respectable person.

Let's not get caught up in hypothetical people and long forgotten
events let's remember what we are talking about here and just review
for a moment what Caro has done. After all it is Caro who has
disrupted this thread, bringing it away from discussion bread. But
it's still Caro's rite to post, who am I to try to rally round a
lynching mob to stop him posting?

Personally I think this group is a very valuable group, sure there's
one or two that are very unpredictable. But so what? As I said it's
just text, we don't have to take it on board or take it seriously
just as you don't have to take on board all the junk mail you
receive. Imagine if you took the junk mail you got as seriously as
you take the people you dislike in the group. Imagine if you accepted
every drink offered to you at a party. We just don't do that outside
of these groups so why do we do it here? We have choices, we can
ignore what we don't like.

I'm not suggesting that we be totally uncaring in just ignore
everyone who doesn't fit our bill. I feel I have to say something
when I see someone making a total arse of themselves out of puffed up
pride, I can't always do anything to change it but sometimes a right
word said at the right time can make a chink in that ego's armour. So
we just have to get along, NOT BE PERSONAL to others in the name of
being right, forgive and forget.


Jim

On 6 Aug 2007, at 23:07, Caro wrote:

> Totally agree with everything you said Mike....the reason I mentioned
> anything in the 1st place was because I thought it was offensive and
> CHILDISH the way Jim and his henchmen were lording it over others
> (bullying is a good word) You could have corrected someone by replying
> respectfully instead of slamming everything they said and behaving
> like you are on a power trip. To sum it all up it appears only
> certified "OLD FOSSILS" have anything worthwhile to contribute in this
> group, newbies aren't going to get a look in unless they are asking
> for advice.
>
> Jim I think you've bee eating too much "SOUR" dough.
>


See what I mean? Caro I'm flattered that you think I control this
group. lol. But I'm a nothing here. I'm nothing but a newcomer in
respect to folks like Mike Avery and Dicky.

You are the only one Caro to get abusive. Take a good look before
throwing your stones. It could well be yourself you are seeing.

By the way, no one in the group as any problem with 'noobies' posting
what they've done and what they think. What I see as something worthy
of commenting on is when that noobie is making out like they are an
expert and potentially misleading other noobies who don't know any
different. On top of that I thought that the noobie concerned was
doing more harm to himself in his puffed up pride than to anyone else
and I thought that he would have a better time in this group if he
put his pride aside and just admitted what he didn't know. I know
because I'm speaking from experience. I've been there making a total
arse of myself thinking I knew what I was talking about because I'd
been baking for years. I'd been baking crap for years that's for sure.

You talk about bullying and yet you storm into this group of people
and start throwing insults around at people you don't know and you
think you are the civilised one. Really Caro you should take a good
hard look in the mirror and try to live up to your name. If you were
not protected by your computer screen you wouldn't dare have the
audacity to do that in any group face to face. You know you would be
picked up by the scruff of your neck and thrown out on the street.
You are the one that is misbehaving here Caro.

Jim

Jim wrote:
> On 6 Aug 2007, at 18:47, Mike Romain wrote:
>
>> Sure they have power. They have the power to disrupt a group and they
>> have the power to make folks feel unwelcome in a group. When folks
>> leave or get ****ed at them, that justifies the power trip they are on
>> in their own small minds so they start again with the next one that
>> threatens 'their' way of doing things, imaginary or otherwise.
>>
>> I am a member of one Usenet group that has been totally overrun by
>> 'bullies' making the group not usable due to all the flack one bully has
>> had come back at him from 'imaginary' affronts. The ratio of abuse to
>> real threads is well over 100 to one now. Anyone new browsing the group
>> would just go away. This one bully actually thinks he is helping the
>> group, not killing it and is so 'off' no one can convince him otherwise.
>> Watching someone go senile over the course of a couple years is
>> painful.
>>
>> Mike
>
> Mike, life will never be perfect and people will absolutely never be
> perfect especially in this nihilistic age that we are living in. To try
> to control the minds of others as you are is a totally futile exercise,

Heh, where in heck do you get that from? I was just replying to your
nonsense about abusers having no power in an unmoderated group.

If 'I' wanted to control any Usenet group, I could always start or join
a moderated group or one with a formal Charter that most ISP's will
recognize (or used to anyway before Google groups).

If it means anything, I think Caro was right on with his correct but
obviously futile opinion, but that was not in any part of what 'I' was
replying to. I already asked Dicky if he was the resident troll and he
replied in the affirmative so I know where he stands and treat him
accordingly.

If you think the group's 'old timers' should be allowed to abuse
'newbies' at their whim on this group, then who am I to stop them or
you. I 'could' be abusive back, but try diplomacy or humor.

It 'really' makes 'newbies' feel welcome, Not....

If this group is 'only' about 4 ingredient sourdough, then the group's
name is wrong.

Mike

On 7 Aug 2007, at 15:20, Mike Romain wrote:

> Heh, where....
> If this group is 'only' about 4 ingredient sourdough, then the group's
> name is wrong.
>
> Mike
> ______

Mike you're taking this way too far and missing the point, as usual
in these group discussion it becomes about something completely
different.

Remember what it is about. Caro thought it was okay to get personal
so long as he didn't like the people he was getting personal about.
It isn't. No one until Caro spoke that crap was being personal. No
one in the group allows personal jibes, that's not to say they don't
happen. My only point is that Caro needs to look in the mirror. If
you think that personal attacks are okay so long as you don't like
the person it's aimed at then you are a lesser a man than you'd like
to think. Throwing personal attacks in a news group is the only thing
about this thread that is childish. Now lets drop it. Before it goes
around in circles some more.

Jim

Jim wrote:
>
> No one in the group allows personal jibes, that's not to say they don't
> happen.
No one on r.f.s. allows personal jibes? Really?

--
Jeff Miller

On 7 Aug 2007, at 16:33, Jeff Miller wrote:

> No one on r.f.s. allows personal jibes? Really?
>
> --
> Jeff Miller
>


Oh Jeff, did you have to stick your oar in as well? Like I said they
happen, of course they happen because no one is perfect. The point,
as you known, that I'm making is there is a big difference between
discussing bread and ideas about bread that get a bit heated from
time to time and getting personal which is totally uncalled for and
always off topic, causing crap like this. There are one or two with a
very dry sense of humour that are not always understood but so what?
This is text and people have to learn to deal with their own thoughts
and take responsibility for how they see things.


Jim

Jim wrote:

> Mike you're taking this way too far and missing the point, as usual in
> these group discussion it becomes about something completely different.
>
> Remember what it is about. Caro thought it was okay to get personal so
> long as he didn't like the people he was getting personal about.

I don't know 'what' newsgroup 'you' are reading, but I have only seen 2
posts from Caro and this one started the shit flying:

Instead of attacking each others comments why not behave like adults
and just answer the questions Paul asked in the 1st place.
----------------------------------

In response to another of Dicky's 'normal' jabs.

Don't see anything in there about him not liking or liking anyone....

Wasted enough bandwidth on this, got bread to make for supper.

Mike

On 7 Aug, 18:22, Mike Romain > wrote:

>> ... behave like adults >

>
> Mike

So that isn't synonymous with you are behaving like children when
actually directed at adults then? And that isn't commenting on
character, so not personal? Right. See only what you want to see Mike.
Roll my eye's and sigh. Fair enough.

Jim

TG wrote:
> On 7 Aug, 18:22, Mike Romain > wrote:
>
>>> ... behave like adults >
>
>> Mike
>
> So that isn't synonymous with you are behaving like children when
> actually directed at adults then? And that isn't commenting on
> character, so not personal? Right. See only what you want to see Mike.
> Roll my eye's and sigh. Fair enough.
>
> Jim
>

Wow, you are getting beyond belief. This will be my last reply to you
because you make absolutely No sense at all.

I was replying to your 'made up' words you put into Caro's mouth,
nothing else.

Here is the part I was talking about that you snipped:

QUOTE:
Jim wrote:

> Mike you're taking this way too far and missing the point, as usual
in these group discussion it becomes about something completely different.
>
> Remember what it is about. Caro thought it was okay to get personal
so long as he didn't like the people he was getting personal about.

UNQUOTE

No where did Caro say this. You are making up Bullshit!

You are also responding with Bullshit!

Good bye.

Mike

On 8 Aug 2007, at 18:37, Mike Romain wrote:

>
> Wow, you are getting beyond belief. This will be my last reply to you
> because you make absolutely No sense at all.

Well I can't put any simpler for you Mike, sorry.

Jim

Mike, for what it may be worth, I think you are wise to step out of
this thread. I've been following the thread, mostly with laughter. As
an outsider to the communication, it's obvious to me that some of the
contributors are reading the posts of others incorrectly - if they are
reading them at all. It's like they're talking but not listening. You
gave it a good shot; but, I don't think anyone is going to be able to
help some of these folks.

You're making wonderful looking bread. I'd like to contact you by
email and ask for some recipes outside this group. OK?


On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 13:37:45 -0400, Mike Romain >
wrote:

>TG wrote:
>> On 7 Aug, 18:22, Mike Romain > wrote:
>>
>>>> ... behave like adults >
>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> So that isn't synonymous with you are behaving like children when
>> actually directed at adults then? And that isn't commenting on
>> character, so not personal? Right. See only what you want to see Mike.
>> Roll my eye's and sigh. Fair enough.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>
>Wow, you are getting beyond belief. This will be my last reply to you
>because you make absolutely No sense at all.
>
>I was replying to your 'made up' words you put into Caro's mouth,
>nothing else.
>
>Here is the part I was talking about that you snipped:
>
>QUOTE:
>Jim wrote:
>
> > Mike you're taking this way too far and missing the point, as usual
>in these group discussion it becomes about something completely different.
> >
> > Remember what it is about. Caro thought it was okay to get personal
>so long as he didn't like the people he was getting personal about.
>
>UNQUOTE
>
>No where did Caro say this. You are making up Bullshit!
>
>You are also responding with Bullshit!
>
>Good bye.
>
>Mike




Burney dot Huff at Mindspring dot com

TG wrote:
> On 7 Aug, 18:22, Mike Romain > wrote:
>
>>> ... behave like adults >

Y'know, I don't think anyone watching this is going to change their
opinion. You really think responding *again* is going to matter, except
to prolong this thread?

B/

BH wrote:

>
> You're making wonderful looking bread. I'd like to contact you by
> email and ask for some recipes outside this group. OK?
>
>

Sure, no problem, I am enjoying the different varieties of bread I can
get. Making rye right now, but it seems like a slow day for starters.
Too hot and humid likely.

Mike