With Wu Wei, holy grail, a picture of me, my bread and a bunch of
recipes amongst other SD thingies besides the term "sourheads".

http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/...647521,00.html


Samartha

--
remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/

Samartha,

Great article and photos.

So how did you get your 15 minutes?

Ed Bechtel

Ed

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:40:06 -0700, Samartha Deva
> wrote:

>With Wu Wei, holy grail, a picture of me, my bread and a bunch of
>recipes amongst other SD thingies besides the term "sourheads".
>
>http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/...647521,00.html
>
>
>Samartha


Congratulations. An interesting story with a wonderful and
well-deserved opportunity for you to strut your stuff.

boron

Ed Bechtel wrote:
>
> Samartha,
>
> Great article and photos.
>
> So how did you get your 15 minutes?

The underlying reason, who knows - what are reasons for something to
happen?

The actual events we

- editor of newspaper asks reporter/journalist to do a feature on
sourdough
- reporter/journalist goes to a potluck party and asks for sourdough
resources
- people at that potluck party have been exposed to my breads before, I
was not there
- a dear friend of mine is at that potluck party and suggests to use me
as a possible resource, which happened

The devil is in the details, though. Initially, the time for the
photographer to take the pictures was set up for 5 pm. They asked me to
show the "real" process, not just waiting, watching the dough rise, and
I targeted 5 pm to be able to show:

- mixing
- punch down and 2. rise
- slashing/baking
- a finished bread

so, I figured what to start when to be able to have the individual steps
ready at 5 pm. What happened the day before was the photographer
calling, asking to come at 4 pm which caused a "nnnngg, sure, come at 4
pm then" and me having to get up on a Saturday at 5:15 am instead of one
hour later and cut off 1 hour in the last 3-Stage step. He took about
90 pictures during the 30 minutes while I was pretty busy.

It was a very interesting experience. I had three different starters
running, targeted to be ready at the right time and it all worked out
fine.

Samartha


--
remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/

Cool, dude!

"Samartha Deva" > wrote in message
...
> With Wu Wei, holy grail, a picture of me, my bread and a bunch of
> recipes amongst other SD thingies besides the term "sourheads".
>
>
http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/...647521,00.html
>
>
> Samartha
>
> --
> remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
> SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/

"Samartha Deva" > wrote in message
...

> With Wu Wei, holy grail, a picture of me, my bread and a bunch of
> recipes amongst other SD thingies besides the term "sourheads".
>
>
http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/...647521,00.html

Samartha:

That is really cool. I guess this makes you somewhat of a celebrity. So is
"sourheads" something that you came up with?

-Mike

We had a three page spread on sourdough in the Oakland Tribune
yesterday. I was hoping to pick up some pointers from it and
while it contained a great deal of information, It didn't contain
anything new.
Ernie

"Ernie" > wrote in message =
om...

> We had a three page spread on sourdough in the Oakland Tribune
> yesterday. I was hoping to pick up some pointers from it and
> while it contained a great deal of information, It didn't contain
> anything new.

Was it=20
http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Storie...963263,00.html
?

---
DickA

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:40:06 -0700, Samartha Deva
> wrote:

>With Wu Wei, holy grail, a picture of me, my bread and a bunch of
>recipes amongst other SD thingies besides the term "sourheads".
>
>http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/...647521,00.html
>
>
>Samartha

Hi Samartha,

I was pleased to see that you made it into the papers! That must have
been great fun, and I wish you the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Samartha Deva > wrote in message >...
> With Wu Wei, holy grail, a picture of me, my bread and a bunch of
> recipes amongst other SD thingies besides the term "sourheads".
>
> http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/...647521,00.html
>
>
> Samartha

Wu wei bread?
Sounds exotic….
Samartha you are applying some Taoist principles on your wu wei
bread. It implies that in your case you are emphasizing spontaneity
in action; Not much of it or no in action either.
You go with the flow of events.. Not to oppose it but live with it.
You may make a mistake in your steps but doing it whether it come out
right of wrong does not matter as long as you are perfectly at peace
with your self sand you are not attached to the results which in the
end you expect to come out good anyway. As you are acting it with good
intentions and you are expectedly to reap good karma. Which result on
consistently good bread as what you found in your experience.
Further You just do everything it in a relaxed manner.And not think
of anything stressfull such as exact measurements and worrying about
the result.
Hmns that sounds like the principle of Tai chi and Pa Kua ( Bagua
)Chinese Soft martial art of taoist origin that embody related
principle as applied in combat.
An expert on such art , can deftly counter enemy force by deflecting
the enemy strike it with minimal force ( instead of meeting the force
head on as done by hard martial art like karate and boxing) and
immediately applying an effective form of counterattack usually
unexpected by the opponent.
You are not disturbing the flow of action but following it in cyclic
manner.
As you applied wu wei in your sourdough ( and how I understand it)it
does not care much about precision or even accuracy but just taking a
part of each ingredient needed and compensating any inevenness it by
adding more or less of the other material until you get the right
balance of ingredients in the resulting dough. Yin and Yang principles
in breadmaking huh?
It looks simple anyway as what you need in your dough is just flour,
starter,salt and water .And it does not need complicated science after
all to enable you to attain your goal. But by publicizing such
method you are looking for disciples of the right mental frame that
does not antagonize your style
And you are hoping that the devoted practitioner of the true
sourdough will become your follower.
It is likely that as your skill in such form of spontaneous baking
impoves you will learn to apply the precepts of The Art of War by
Sun Tzu. for best effect with your dough making<g>.
Roy

Roy Basan wrote:

> Wu wei bread?
> Sounds exotic?.

Sure, maybe from your prospective - why not? On my SD web site, there is
a Wu Wei bread page and on the header if you click on Wu Wei, it gets
you to another page explaining it more. I find that Wu Wei - action
through inaction - goes very well with sourdough (including, but not
limited to) and it is very enjoyable.

Samartha

--
remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/

Mike Pearce wrote:

> Samartha:
>
> That is really cool. I guess this makes you somewhat of a celebrity. So is
> "sourheads" something that you came up with?

Hey thanks,

Well, apparently, I used it again last August after somebody else used
it (unknowingly by me at that time) in July 1985, a Maggie in New
Orleans acc. to Google. But it's really a non-brainer and since
acidheads is around for quite a while and sourheads well - quite close,
it's not really great and a compliment with possible associations (sour,
not well, hangover??), but the writer liked it. I am just waiting until
this email address gets spammed.

Now, me somewhat getting celebribable - I am not sure at all if that
shoe would fit me. You know, using grapes with lots of flour for
starters and coffee with white flour for pumpernickels as "celebrities"
with videos and books do isn't my case;-)

Oh, btw. Lauren Groveman, the 40 minute pumpernickel lady on PBS who
"...happily mix coffee, plums, wheat flour, yeast and some rye flour
together" ( -> http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/PPN01/) must have
stumbled on or was told about my Pumpernickel web site and sent me an
email from there, kinda weird, not very substantial. I haven't gotten
around dealing with it, but I will eventually, I am kinda busy these
days, needing to make a buck, for some change.

Samartha


--
remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/

"Samartha Deva" > wrote in message
...
> With Wu Wei, holy grail, a picture of me, my bread and a bunch of
> recipes amongst other SD thingies besides the term "sourheads".
>
>
http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/...647521,00.html
>
>
> Samartha
>
> --
> remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
> SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/

Congratulations Samartha. The newspaper couldn't have chosen a better or
more knowledgeable representative for sourdough.
Janet

"Samartha Deva" >=20
wrote in message ...

> I find that Wu Wei - action through inaction - goes very well with=20
> sourdough (including, but not limited to) and it is very enjoyable.

Another possibility, following the action through inaction principle,=20
would be to not make bread at all. Sooner or later, some one in
your household will go to the store and buy some. If you are lucky
enough to live in the right place, it might turn out to be sourdough.

The Wu Wei bread procedure mentioned requires considerable
attention, though possibly casual. The solution I propose requires=20
no attention at all.

---
DickA

"Samartha Deva" > wrote in message
...
>
> Now, me somewhat getting celebribable - I am not sure at all if that
> shoe would fit me. You know, using grapes with lots of flour for
> starters and coffee with white flour for pumpernickels as "celebrities"
> with videos and books do isn't my case;-)

Well, at least the word is getting out their a little more about "honest
pumpernickels". That can't be a bad thing.

>
> Oh, btw. Lauren Groveman, the 40 minute pumpernickel lady on PBS who
> "...happily mix coffee, plums, wheat flour, yeast and some rye flour
> together" ( -> http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/PPN01/) must have
> stumbled on or was told about my Pumpernickel web site and sent me an
> email from there, kinda weird, not very substantial.

Look at you! I was right you are becoming a celebrity.

BTW, although I'm not a big fan of the flavor of rye yet, I've been
intrigued by your pumpernickel. One of these days you will likely be hearing
from me with questions. My inability to find anything other than finely
ground rye flour here in New Orleans is the only reason I haven't tried it
already.

Take care,
-Mike

"Samartha Deva" > wrote in message
...
> With Wu Wei, holy grail, a picture of me, my bread and a bunch of
> recipes amongst other SD thingies besides the term "sourheads".
>
>
http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/...647521,00.html
>
>
> Samartha
>
> --
> remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
> SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/

Wow! I've been lurking for some time, but haven't posted...but I have to
comment on this one. I used to work with the writer who wrote that article
when she worked at another local paper. It always surprises me, on a
newsgroup with such wide-spread distribution, when I find out someone else
is so close...

Donna

"D.Currie" > wrote in message=20
...

http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/...2647521,00.ht=
ml

> ... I used to work with the writer who wrote that article when she=20
> worked at another local paper.=20

She is a disappointment to us -- she has our Samartha recommending
to put seeds in one's dough.

"2 grams each (about 3/4 of tablespoon) caraway seeds, coriander=20
seeds, fennel seeds" (in linked article)

Would Samartha do such a thing? Does the Hofpfisterei bakery bake
with spice seeds?

There was also the broad statement (but not attributed to Samartha):
"Starters made with commercial yeast are also essential to baking."=20

Jeez!

---
DickA

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...

"D.Currie" > wrote in message
...

http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/...647521,00.html

> ... I used to work with the writer who wrote that article when she
> worked at another local paper.

She is a disappointment to us -- she has our Samartha recommending
to put seeds in one's dough.

"2 grams each (about 3/4 of tablespoon) caraway seeds, coriander
seeds, fennel seeds" (in linked article)

Would Samartha do such a thing? Does the Hofpfisterei bakery bake
with spice seeds?

There was also the broad statement (but not attributed to Samartha):
"Starters made with commercial yeast are also essential to baking."

Jeez!

---
DickA


I'm no longer surprised at errors that sneak into print. I've read the most
amazing things about myself in the few times I've been interviewed.

To be fair, though, it's not always the writer. When a piece goes through
the editing process, cutting and pasting can make mincemeat of the truth.

Donna

"D.Currie" wrote:

> I'm no longer surprised at errors that sneak into print. I've read the most
> amazing things about myself in the few times I've been interviewed.

FYI:

http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/...659263,00.html

on there, the links at the bottom:

RELATED STORIES
* ...

* Rye Sourdough Starter

that's sourced from the

http://samartha.net/SD/MakeStarter01.html

* Sourdough Rye Bread

that was based on this:

http://samartha.net/SD/images/BYDATE/03-07-12/
- ex sunflower seeds


* Wu Wei Bread

that's sourced from the

http://samartha.net/SD/images/BYDATE/02-08-05/

*....

You may judge yourself, how many errors have sneaked in. The issue for
her was to address a wide audience and I think she did very well.

As for the Hofpfisterei (800+ years baking in Munich) and seeds in their
breads, go the

http://www.hofpfisterei.de/html/Sortiment.html

- although in German, you can easily deduct seeded breads from the names

names containing "Kern" - from "kernel", those are seeded breads

names containing "Korn" - that's grain, those mostly contain whole or
large grain parts

names containing Sonnenblumen, Kümmel, Kürbis, Sesam, Haselnuß, that's
sunflower, caraway, pumpkin, sesame, hazelnut respectively, all seeds.

Several breads have spices either ground or in seed form: coriander,
fennel. I am not sure if they use anise or cardamom which are also good
to use.

Vegetables - Karrotten - carrots, Oliven - olives,

and then they go into sprouted seeds and grains:

Mini-Mungobohnen, Adzukibohnen, Kichererbsen, Alfalfa, Weizen,
Radieschen, Sesam, Leinasmenkeimen, Quinoa und Traubenkernmehl.

mung beans, azuki beans, chickpeas, alfalfa, wheat, radishes, sesame,
flax, quinoa and grape seed flour.

> To be fair, though, it's not always the writer. When a piece goes through
> the editing process, cutting and pasting can make mincemeat of the truth.

certainly true - and so does filtering through neurological pathways in
human brains, in stronger cases given latin names.

Samartha


>
> Donna

--
remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/

"Samartha Deva" >=20
wrote in message ...

(Regarding spice seeds in traditional rye breads)

> http://samartha.net/SD/images/BYDATE/03-07-12/

> - ex(ample sunflower seeds

I don't think that sunflower seeds are spices.=20

It was caraway that caught my eye -- my understanding is that it
is not an ingredient of the bread in question.

OK on coriander and fennel.

Comes right if "sunflower seeds" replaces "caraway seeds" in the
article at =20
<http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/..._2659262,00.h=
tml> =20
> You may judge yourself, how many errors have sneaked in.=20

Well, that, and the very misleading statement in the lead article
<http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/..._2647521,00.h=
tml>,
about starters made with commercial yeast being essential to baking,
were the errors that I saw. But there may be more. If I see any with =
my
McGoo eyes, there's probably more.

One of our contemporary sourdough pioneers was sorely compromised by=20
a bookwriter* -- it is a matter of recent sourdough history. Just to =
say that=20
your 15 minutes could cost you a nickel and a dime if you are cut out of
the final proofreading.

> > ... cutting and pasting can make mincemeat of the truth.

> certainly true - and so does filtering through neurological pathways=20
> in human brains, in stronger cases given Latin names.

Can't argue with that, esp. if it's comes out in Latin (or German, etc.)

--=20
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com

_______
*Book about bread-machine sourdough

Dick Adams wrote:
> "Samartha Deva" >
> wrote in message ...
>
> (Regarding spice seeds in traditional rye breads)
>
>
>>http://samartha.net/SD/images/BYDATE/03-07-12/
>
>
>>- ex(ample sunflower seeds
>
>
> I don't think that sunflower seeds are spices.
>
> It was caraway that caught my eye -- my understanding is that it
> is not an ingredient of the bread in question.
>
> OK on coriander and fennel.
>
> Comes right if "sunflower seeds" replaces "caraway seeds" in the
> article at
> <http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/article/0,1713,BDC_2517_2659262,00.html>
>
>>You may judge yourself, how many errors have sneaked in.
>
>
> Well, that, and the very misleading statement in the lead article
> <http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/food/article/0,1713,BDC_2517_2647521,00.html>,
> about starters made with commercial yeast being essential to baking,
> were the errors that I saw. But there may be more. If I see any with my
> McGoo eyes, there's probably more.
>
> One of our contemporary sourdough pioneers was sorely compromised by
> a bookwriter* -- it is a matter of recent sourdough history. Just to say that
> your 15 minutes could cost you a nickel and a dime if you are cut out of
> the final proofreading.
>
>
>>>... cutting and pasting can make mincemeat of the truth.
>
>
>>certainly true - and so does filtering through neurological pathways
>>in human brains, in stronger cases given Latin names.
>
>
> Can't argue with that, esp. if it's comes out in Latin (or German, etc.)
>

Regarding traditional use of caraway in rye bread in Finland

Rye bread has a long tradition in Norther Europe and wheat was at the
latest introduced in finland 1562 by Mickel Östgöte (earlier in sweden).
The earliest written botanical record of caraway in sweden/finland is
from 1658 in Rudbecks Catalogus plantarum. It is known to be growing in
Sweden and Finland at least since the middle ages.

The french traveller Outhier Réginald wrote about the use of caraway in
finish bread in 1736-1737
"About Spices
....and put caraway in all bread."
Outhier Réginald - Journal d'un voyage au Nord en 1736 & 1737. Paris 1744

A SD bread made with rye, wheat and caraway is from my perspective a
traditional bread. Not that it really matters if the bread is
traditional or not.
I just got the impression that Dick Adams implies that putting spices
(especially caraway) in bread is for people lacking knowledge of how
"real traditional" bread is made. Therefore it seems resonable to point
out that rye bread with spices including caraway have a rather long
tradition at least in Northern Europe. Of corse I might have
misunderstod DA and in that case you can just regard my post as a small
contribution of, in a broader perspective, unuseful knowledge.

/Gabriel Wallden

"Gabriel Wallden" > wrote in message =
...

> Regarding traditional use of caraway in rye bread in Finland

> [ ... ] (requoted text deleted)=20

(Very informative post: see it at
.=
net>=20
when it is gone from >)

> A SD bread made with rye, wheat and caraway is from my perspective a=20
> traditional bread. ... I just got the impression that Dick Adams =
implies=20
> that putting spices (especially caraway) in bread is for people =
lacking=20
> knowledge of how "real traditional" bread is made.

I retracted to some extent, leaving only my observation that the line =20
" ... sunflower seeds, coriander seeds, fennel seeds ... "=20
in the original text had been replaced in the in the rewritten article =
with
" ... caraway seeds, coriander seeds, fennel seeds ..."

My impression is that the Samartha bread mentioned is not flavored
with caraway.

We are very specific about such things here. You can, for instance, get
into a lot of trouble at r.f.s. for suggesting that Pumpernickel is =
colored=20
with coffee or cooked quickly.

My greatest shock, in discovering the details about traditional rye =
breads,
is that they are, by and large, heavily adulterated with wheat (and =
similar)
flours.

--=20
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com

On 4 Mar 2004 at 14:44, Dick Adams wrote:

> My greatest shock, in discovering the details about traditional rye
> breads, is that they are, by and large, heavily adulterated with wheat
> (and similar) flours.

It shouldn't be a surprise. For quite some time wheat and rye were
planted together. In good years, the wheat grew well, in harder years,
the rye took over the field. So, most breads were made with a mixture
of grains.

It is not entirely clear if this was by design or because the technology
of the day didn't allow for effective separation of the rye and wheat
seeds.

In more northern climates, rye tended to take over the fields as it is a
hardier plant.

Mike
--
Mike Avery

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