In a message dated 12/11/07 14:28:53, writes:

> > wrote in message
> news:mailman.22.1197389330.36895.rec.food.sourdoug ...
>
> > I have survived too from doing many things that I would not think of doing
> today.* As a chemist, I still warn you from ingesting carbon tetrachloride
> (tetrachloromethane).* It was once used as a fire extinguisher, but it was
> found
> that the danger of phosgene was too great for that use and for using it as a
> dry
> cleaning agent.** It has been banned from consumer products in the US since
> about 1970.** We learnas time passes on, or else we pass on. <
>
> > AGAIN, DO NOT USE CARBON TETRACHLORIDE IN FOOD. <
>
>
> How does the chemist feel about benzoyl peroxide and chlorine dioxide, those
> substances used to bleach flour, and potassium bromate, which bleaches as
> well
> as strengthens gluten, and unlike the first two, remains in the flour until
> after
> it is sold (but probably not after it is baked)?
>
> Does he think that a few drops of carbon tetrachloride used to fumigate a
> sealed bucket of whole grain remains, to any extent at all, after the grain
> is milled and baked?* Does he believe that carbon tetrachloride combines
> chemically with the grain?
>
> Does he believe that the fumigants used by an exterminator will injure or
> kill
> the (human) occupants when they return?* Do I dare spray my apple trees
> with,
> for instance, malathione?* Do I dare drink water that has been treated with
> chlorine?* How about the chlorine in my salt shaker, and the hazard of water
> poisoning when canoeing, or water-boarding?
>
> Is a person educated as a chemist smart enough to take his email client out
> of rich-text mode?
>
> --
>
> Dicky
>
> Carbon dioxide is also good for fumigating grain.* It works by being heavier
> than
> air and asphyxiating any air-breathing thing that is immersed in it.* I
> asked for
> some solid carbon dioxide (dry ice) at the pharmacy counter of my Walgreens
> and was referred to the chief pharmacist.* (They get frozen stuff packed
> with
> dry ice several time a week).* I explained to him that I wanted to put a
> chip of
> it in a ten-gallon bucket of grain and let it vaporize to drove the air out
> through
> a small hole in the lid, and suffocate any bugs, larvae, eggs, etc.* He
> refused it
> to me.* Apparently he feels it is too dangerous for non-professional use..
>
> Well, heck, I still have a half full bottle of Carbona.
>

Mr. Adams apparently likes to provoke arguments and show off his superior
knowledge and intelligence. That is all right with me, but he should not make
dangerously misleading statements about the safety of materials to be used by
people unfamiliar with the hazards. If he wants to use these hazardous
materials and endanger his own life and health, that is his business, but he should
not endanger others. I was simply warning about hazards.

Mr. Adams recommendation of a "small amount" or a few drops is much too
indefinite for the handling of materials that are too hazardous to be used by
untrained individuals. The face that benzoyl peroxide and potassium bromate are
used commercially does not imply that they are safe for the home baker.
Malathione, while toxic is not in the same class as carbon tetrachloride. This is
used as an insecticide on growing plants. I don't know about Mr. Adams, but
I wash fruit before eating it. I would not recommend its use in a canister
of flour. The chlorine used in public water supplies is carefully controlled
by trained people.

When Mr. Adams mentions the chlorine in the salt shaker he is showing his
ignorance of chemistry. That is sodium chloride, not chlorine. Entirely
different in properties and hazard! Then there is the absurd suggestion of water
poisoning by one canoeing or water-boarding. I am not sure whether he is
talking about the water-boarding torture method or a form of surfing. It is a
ridiculous argument in either case.

I suggest you place the containers of insect infested grain or grain products
in the home freezer for a week or so rather than poison the critters and
yourself in the process.

I don't know which Carbona product he is talking about, but I am reasonably
sure none of the products are recommended for ingestion -- with or without
cooking.


Resident Conservative Curmudgeon

Ford



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> wrote in message news:mailman.24.1197407756.36895.rec.food.sourdoug ...

> If (Dicky) wants to use these hazardous materials and endanger his
own life and health, that is his business, but he should not endanger
others. I was simply warning about hazards. <

Obs.: I said could, not should! Life on the edge is not for the meek.

> Mr. Adams recommendation of a "small amount" or a few drops
is much too indefinite for the handling of materials that are too
hazardous to be used by untrained individuals. <

Old-time farmers used to use several gallons per hundred tons,
but that seems quite a lot. Here several drops allowed to evaporate
in a food pails each containing 30 pounds of grain has quantitatively disinfected
grain known to be infested with Indian flour moths. In these cases, the
pails were tightly sealed for a periods of at least a month before their
contents were aired out.

Here is a citation that carbon tetrachloride did not persist in bread
baked from wheat which had been treated with carbon tetrachloride
at ten times the levels normally used for fumigation.
Munsey, V. E., Mills, P. A. & Klein, A. K. (1957) J. Ass. Off. Agr.
Chemists, 40, 201

> I suggest you place the containers of insect infested grain or
grain products in the home freezer for a week or so rather than
poison the critters and yourself in the process. <

Not everybody has a freezer. Well, there is a little one above
my fridge, but it us usually full of frozen food. You could not get
a 60 lb sack up there.

> I don't know which Carbona product he is talking about, but I
am reasonably sure none of the products are recommended for
ingestion -- with or without cooking. <

Ya got me there. Today's Carbona is a queer as a $3 bill. So
is TSP (formerly trisodium phosphate, good for cleaning paint brushes)
and most flavors of Clorox. Drano is still good, though. Probably
on the way out, though.

This is the last time you hear from me if you persist in being a bad
boy and posting rich text.

Any interested persons could do a key word search using grain and
"carbon tetrachloride". Carbon tetrachloride has not be permitted in
products for the home since 1986. But you can still get lead paint on
toys and mercury in fish.

--
Dicky

Dick Adams wrote:

>
> > wrote in message
> news:mailman.24.1197407756.36895.rec.food.sourdoug ...
>
>> If (Dicky) wants to use these hazardous materials and endanger his
> own life and health, that is his business, but he should not endanger
> others. I was simply warning about hazards. <
>
> Obs.: I said could, not should! Life on the edge is not for the meek.
>
>> Mr. Adams recommendation of a "small amount" or a few drops
> is much too indefinite for the handling of materials that are too
> hazardous to be used by untrained individuals. <
>
> Old-time farmers used to use several gallons per hundred tons,
> but that seems quite a lot. Here several drops allowed to evaporate
> in a food pails each containing 30 pounds of grain has quantitatively
> disinfected
> grain known to be infested with Indian flour moths. In these cases, the
> pails were tightly sealed for a periods of at least a month before their
> contents were aired out.
>
> Here is a citation that carbon tetrachloride did not persist in bread
> baked from wheat which had been treated with carbon tetrachloride
> at ten times the levels normally used for fumigation.
> Munsey, V. E., Mills, P. A. & Klein, A. K. (1957) J. Ass. Off. Agr.
> Chemists, 40, 201
>
>> I suggest you place the containers of insect infested grain or
> grain products in the home freezer for a week or so rather than
> poison the critters and yourself in the process. <
>
> Not everybody has a freezer. Well, there is a little one above
> my fridge, but it us usually full of frozen food. You could not get
> a 60 lb sack up there.
>
>> I don't know which Carbona product he is talking about, but I
> am reasonably sure none of the products are recommended for
> ingestion -- with or without cooking. <
>
> Ya got me there. Today's Carbona is a queer as a $3 bill. So
> is TSP (formerly trisodium phosphate, good for cleaning paint brushes)
> and most flavors of Clorox. Drano is still good, though. Probably
> on the way out, though.
>
> This is the last time you hear from me if you persist in being a bad
> boy and posting rich text.
>
> Any interested persons could do a key word search using grain and
> "carbon tetrachloride". Carbon tetrachloride has not be permitted in
> products for the home since 1986. But you can still get lead paint on
> toys and mercury in fish.
>
> --
> Dicky
I vote for Dick Adams

Joe Umstead

"Joe Umstead" > wrote in message ...
> Dick Adams wrote:

> > [ bla, bla, blah (deleted) ]

> I vote for Dick Adams

That's nice, Joe, and I appreciate your vote.

But don't you know that it is not necessary to report the entirety
of the post you are commenting upon. It is all available by clicking
in the news ID. Try it. Here is the news ID of the subject post:



People who are really smart can find the post in the Google archive
using the string following <news:> So, you could just quote a few words
of the subject article to focus your reply or comment, and the smarties,
if they wished to see the whole post, could find it at Google even after
it decays from the newsservers.

That way we conserve time and bandwidth, and can redirect some of
our energies to keeping our planet green.

---
Dicky