I am trying for a "no knead" high hydration bread. Unlike my very
successful dark rye

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?i...akwasieky4.jpg

my sourdough "no knead" suffer from two problems...

1) No rise in the (very hot) oven.... and, I use a form of dutch oven
to ensure stable and high temperature as
evidenced by those pics..

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?i...013copynr1.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?i...014copyjw6.jpg

2) Very sour taste, quite unlike the real thing from Central Europe,
which is what I am gunning for...

I am trying to develop the dough in a hot bath to ensure sufficient
temp for the intermittent rises.. I take
the dough out maybe five-six times during a six hour period for a
standard folding before dropping the dough
into a very hot dutch oven and baking at around 500-550 F for 45
min...

Surprisingly, same "no-knead" method with a yeasted bread made with
poolish works very well for me...
The bread rises well and has excellent taste...

Can you, please, help me with relevant advice to solve my two
problems?
and has very good taste

On 7 Aug, 09:31, wrote:
> I am trying for a "no knead"

First of all what makes a bread 'no knead'? Not kneading. That's the
only difference. There's nothing special about the ingredients or
method other than that. It could be low or high hydration. Basically
lots of kneading is a waste of time for the home baker. That includes
complicated folding techniques. ...First this way then that... hold
and take two steps back... twist and dosey doe.

....
> my sourdough "no knead" suffer from two problems...
>
> 1) No rise in the (very hot) oven.... and, 2) Very sour taste, quite unlike the real thing from Central Europe,
> which is what I am gunning for...
....

Is it Central Europe or the very sour taste you're gunning for? I hope
it's not Central Europe they've had enough turmoil lately.

> I am trying to develop the dough in a hot bath to ensure sufficient
temp...

I find it easier to make my bread in the kitchen.

Seriously though.

I would put my money on your starter method. I suspect that you're
over fermenting your starter. Also when you say "hot bath" what do you
mean? How hot is 'hot'? it sounds like you would kill your starter or
at least have temperatures so high that it stops growing. Room
temperature is more than enough.

If I were you I'd drop all the paraphernalia and complicated concepts
and methods. Go back to basics. See how that goes, follow Mike Avery's
instructions on his site

www.sourdoughhome.com/

until you have it mastered. When you're making great bread using the
basic methods you probably won't bother with all the other gimmicks.
There's some serious nut cases on the net who would have you tip-
toeing through the tulips on a soggy Sunday in Spring to get the best
results. I'm not saying Dutch ovens or plain old pasta pans won't
work, but is it worth the effort?

Jim

> wrote in message ...
> my sourdough "no knead" suffer from two problems...
> 1) No rise in the (very hot) oven....
> 2) Very sour taste ...

Check out http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/dickpics/starter.html
and http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/ca...galCarlos.html

> I am trying to develop the dough in a hot bath to ensure sufficient
> temp for the intermittent rises ...

Develop? Dough rises fine at room temperature if drying is avoided,
faster if warmer. Maybe developing, by you, means intermittent
kneadings/stretchings/foldings/whatever. Anyway, by me, the dough
should be risen by baking time. See, for instance:
http://home.att.net/~dick.adams/EZSDLoaves/

> Can you, please, help me with relevant advice to solve my two
> problems?

Probably not. It sounds like you may be going for rye bread. For
that, you need to be extremely smart. I can only offer simpleminded
advice. Maybe you should commune with a guru like Samartha
AKA Sam: http://samartha.net/SD/ (Maybe you should trade your
"hot bath" system for some temperature-controlled fish tanks?)

G'day ... whoever you are...

> wrote in message
...
>I am trying for a "no knead" high hydration bread. Unlike my very
> successful dark rye
When I make a "no-knead" bread, I make it like this:
http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...es/noknead.htm

....
> my sourdough "no knead" suffer from two problems...
>
> 1) No rise in the (very hot) oven.... and, I use a form of dutch oven
> to ensure stable and high temperature as
> evidenced by those pics..
Sounds like it's over-proofed. Try baking sooner...

....
> 2) Very sour taste, quite unlike the real thing from Central Europe,
> which is what I am gunning for...
Another vote for over-proofed.

> I am trying to develop the dough in a hot bath to ensure sufficient
> temp for the intermittent rises.. I take
> the dough out maybe five-six times during a six hour period for a
> standard folding before dropping the dough
> into a very hot dutch oven and baking at around 500-550 F for 45
> min...
So, did the dough rise during any of those events?

> Surprisingly, same "no-knead" method with a yeasted bread made with
> poolish works very well for me...
> The bread rises well and has excellent taste...
As it should...

> Can you, please, help me with relevant advice to solve my two
> problems?
> and has very good taste
Well, you didn't give too many details, so it's hard to tell for sure. But
at least glance at my recipe, and see how closely it comes to what you want
to achieve.


L8r all,
Dusty