Hi there,

I've had some excellent help from this mailing list, and have
determined to repay the favor in my fashion – I had a very confusing
time calculating percentages for flour, starter and water, and so
wrote a small program to do it for me, and made it available online.
You can try it out at this page:

http://thenightkitchen.net/sourdough/

Let me know if anything seems wrong, or there's anything I can do to
improve it. Happy baking!

Yours,
Eric

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I've had some excellent help from this mailing list, and have
> determined to repay the favor in my fashion – I had a very confusing
> time calculating percentages for flour, starter and water, and so
> wrote a small program to do it for me, and made it available online.
> You can try it out at this page:
>
> http://thenightkitchen.net/sourdough/
>
> Let me know if anything seems wrong, or there's anything I can do to
> improve it. Happy baking!
>
Interesting.

a couple of things:

functional:

- salt % entered as 1.8 % are refreshed as 2
- desired dough hydration information disappears after submitting - I
tend to print out pages and have them around in the kitchen when I make
bread. In this case, I would have to remember and write it on the sheet.

featu

When I enter the values, I'd like to see the total dough weight.
Or - when I make bread, have a certain amount of starter available -
what do I have to use as ingredients to get a desired hydration?
Or - I want x amount of dough, have a starter, what ingredients do I
need to add to get the dough amount with a certain hydration?.

I made a calculator long time ago and use it still occasionally:

http://samartha.net/SD/ on the right side under baker's math

Sam

Sam wrote:
> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I've had some excellent help from this mailing list, and have
>> determined to repay the favor in my fashion – I had a very confusing
>> time calculating percentages for flour, starter and water, and so
>> wrote a small program to do it for me, and made it available online.
>> You can try it out at this page:
>>
>> http://thenightkitchen.net/sourdough/
>>
>> Let me know if anything seems wrong, or there's anything I can do to
>> improve it. Happy baking!
>>
> Interesting.
>
> a couple of things:
>
> functional:
>
> - salt % entered as 1.8 % are refreshed as 2
> - desired dough hydration information disappears after submitting - I
> tend to print out pages and have them around in the kitchen when I make
> bread. In this case, I would have to remember and write it on the sheet.
>
> featu
>
> When I enter the values, I'd like to see the total dough weight.
> Or - when I make bread, have a certain amount of starter available -
> what do I have to use as ingredients to get a desired hydration?
> Or - I want x amount of dough, have a starter, what ingredients do I
> need to add to get the dough amount with a certain hydration?.
>
> I made a calculator long time ago and use it still occasionally:
>
> http://samartha.net/SD/ on the right side under baker's math
>
> Sam
>

I agree with your comments, but I want to make 2 1.5 lb loaves
or maybe 3 or maybe only one 2 lb loaf. This makes the
calculation a little tougher.

John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee

John Andrews in Knoxville wrote:
>
>
> I agree with your comments, but I want to make 2 1.5 lb loaves
> or maybe 3 or maybe only one 2 lb loaf. This makes the
> calculation a little tougher
Absolutely - adding, multiplying and dividing would be involved - that's
far more complicated than clicking a button.

S.

"Sam" > wrote in message news:mailman.16.1227191859.3709.rec.food.sourdough @www.mountainbitwarrior..com...
> > I agree with your comments, but I want to make 2 1.5 lb loaves
> > or maybe 3 or maybe only one 2 lb loaf. This makes the
> > calculation a little tougher

> Absolutely - adding, multiplying and dividing would be involved - that's
> far more complicated than clicking a button.

I think he is trying to say that amateur bakers are not rocket scientists,
or even close.

So little faith!

On Nov 20, 1:13*pm, John Andrews in Knoxville >
wrote:
> Sam wrote:
> > Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
> >> Hi there,
>
> >> I've had some excellent help from this mailing list, and have
> >> determined to repay the favor in my fashion – I had a very confusing
> >> time calculating percentages for flour, starter and water, and so
> >> wrote a small program to do it for me, and made it available online.
> >> You can try it out at this page:
>
> >>http://thenightkitchen.net/sourdough/
>
> >> Let me know if anything seems wrong, or there's anything I can do to
> >> improve it. Happy baking!
>
> > Interesting.
>
> > a couple of things:
>
> > functional:
>
> > - salt % entered as 1.8 % are refreshed as 2
> > - desired dough hydration information disappears after submitting - I
> > tend to print out pages and have them around in the kitchen when I make
> > bread. In this case, I would have to remember and write it on the sheet..
>
> > featu
>
> > When I enter the values, I'd like to see the total dough weight.
> > Or - when I make bread, have a certain amount of starter available -
> > what do I have to use as ingredients to get a desired hydration?
> > Or - I want x amount of dough, have a starter, what ingredients do I
> > need to add to get the dough amount with a certain hydration?.
>
> > I made a calculator long time ago and use it still occasionally:
>
> >http://samartha.net/SD/*on the right side under baker's math
>
> > Sam
>

Thanks for the tips! Should have known there would be plenty of these
online already... I'll alter this to make it a bit more user-friendly,
and probably add a "printable version" – that's something I'd find
very useful as well. I'll repost when I've got another version.


> I agree with your comments, but I want to make 2 1.5 lb loaves
> or maybe 3 or maybe only one 2 lb loaf. *This makes the
> calculation a little tougher.

I think a calculator like this will only be useful for the initial
dough mass – dividing it into loaves is pretty much the last step, and
will take place after decisions about the ingredients have already
been made. The only thing that might be useful here is adding metric
to imperial conversion, but I'll save that for later...


>
> John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee

> Thanks for the tips! Should have known there would be plenty of these
> online already... I'll alter this to make it a bit more user-friendly,
> and probably add a "printable version" – that's something I'd find
> very useful as well. I'll repost when I've got another version.

New version's up, now you can add annotations when you've got a recipe
you like, and download it as a text file for record-keeping – that
seemed a little more flexible than a printable screen version.
http://thenightkitchen.net/sourdough/

E

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>> Thanks for the tips! Should have known there would be plenty of these
>> online already... I'll alter this to make it a bit more user-friendly,
>> and probably add a "printable version" – that's something I'd find
>> very useful as well. I'll repost when I've got another version.
>
> New version's up, now you can add annotations when you've got a recipe
> you like, and download it as a text file for record-keeping – that
> seemed a little more flexible than a printable screen version.
> http://thenightkitchen.net/sourdough/
>
> E


Doesn't work for me. I want to make 2 loaves of bread each
weighing 12 ounces, or maybe 1.5 lbs. I want to use a hydration
that will give me the proper result for say French or White or
Ciabatta. That is my input. What you suggest is the output I
want except for the hydration. I have a spreadsheet that does
that, but it is not a straightforward calculation. You try.

John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee

On Dec 3, 1:54*am, John Andrews in Knoxville > wrote:
> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
> >> Thanks for the tips! Should have known there would be plenty of these
> >> online already... I'll alter this to make it a bit more user-friendly,
> >> and probably add a "printable version" – that's something I'd find
> >> very useful as well. I'll repost when I've got another version.
>
> > New version's up, now you can add annotations when you've got a recipe
> > you like, and download it as a text file for record-keeping – that
> > seemed a little more flexible than a printable screen version.
> >http://thenightkitchen.net/sourdough/
>
> > E
>
> Doesn't work for me. I want to make 2 loaves of bread each
> weighing 12 ounces, or maybe 1.5 lbs. *I want to use a hydration
> that will give me the proper result for say French or White or
> Ciabatta. *That is my input. *What you suggest is the output I
> want except for the hydration. *I have a spreadsheet that does
> that, but it is not a straightforward calculation. *You try.
>

Okay, the only way to make this work might be to have a separate
calculator altogether, one that takes total dough weight, hydration,
and salt percentage as inputs. I'll see if I can somehow massage that
into the current setup, or if another page altogether is necessary.
Will report back...

E


> John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> > Doesn't work for me. I want to make 2 loaves of bread each
> > weighing 12 ounces, or maybe 1.5 lbs. �I want to use a hydration
> > that will give me the proper result for say French or White or
> > Ciabatta. �

> Okay, the only way to make this work might be to have a separate
> calculator altogether, one that takes total dough weight, hydration,
> and salt percentage as inputs.

Seems to me that if you build an simple table you can do it with one
pass.

Example:

I want 2000 grams of dough.
I want 68% hydration.
I want salt at 2%

flour 100
water 68
salt 2

total 170

2000/170 = 11.76

11.76 is your multiplier for every ingredient.

You can build complexity into it with several flours that add to 100
or even employ starter/sponge/dough stages that require segregating
water and flour but the calculations do not conflict. The dependencies
are obvious.

Another calculation example what I want to do right now:

I have 640 g starter 100 % hydration in the fridge and want:

- to use it all
- make a 55 % hydration pre-dough (for pan cake batter)
- with 18 % of starter flour.

How much flour and water do I need to add to the starter?

I'd use the web GUI and plug in the values, but here is the command
string for that calculation:

http://samartha.net/cgi-bin/SDcalc04.pl?InputWeight=640&DoughHydr=55&StarterPe rc=18&StarterHydr=100&SaltPerc=0&InputType=Starter %20weight&SPercType=Starter%20flour%20as%20baker's %20%

So I need 1458 g of flour and 658 g of water and get something like 2756
g of dough.

And that's what I am going to to now. Maybe the 55 is a bit low - we'll
see....

Sam

On Dec 5, 2:44 pm, Sam > wrote:

> So I need 1458 g of flour and 658 g of water and get something like 2756
> g of dough.

Well good luck. I predict 35 pancakes... based on 13 cm (5 inch)
diameters.

Let us know :-)

Will wrote:
> On Dec 5, 2:44 pm, Sam > wrote:
>
>
>> So I need 1458 g of flour and 658 g of water and get something like 2756
>> g of dough.
>>
>
> Well good luck. I predict 35 pancakes... based on 13 cm (5 inch)
> diameters.
>
>
nope - that's pre-stage, goes in the fridge then 200 g of that are used
to make final batter with eggs (2), milk (150g) and salt.

I am finally at a point to get this organized - so far I just tinkered
with it and hope the hydration is now right.
My pancakes are crepe style, not the standard 1/2" or so US fluffy pan
cakes. So - the 2.7 kg would give me 13 batches and each maybe so 10/15
pancakes each.

Something like that:
http://www.essen-und-trinken.de/reze...annkuchen.html
- the picture is puny.

Better, but not the trimmings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C..._opened_up.jpg - and a bit
more rustic due to FG flour and SD bubbles.

The names are regionally different - where I came from, they are called
Pfannenkuchen - further north they are called "Eierkuchen" (nnnggg)
which immediately identifies the character of the individual.
Further south they are called "Palatschinken" etc.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eierkuchen (I know now where the DE
wikipedia is made

But I use that "pre-dough" also for SD Spätzle which is a different
ballgame.

Using SD with FG wheat to reduce pythate effects apart from having great
taste and entertainment value (sourdough fermentation progress to watch).

Prolonged Fermentation of Whole Wheat Sourdough
Reduces Phytate Level and Increases Soluble Magnesium
H. W. Lopez, V. Krespine, C. Guy, A. Messager, C. Demigne, and C. Remesy
J. Agric. Food Chem., 2001, 49 (5), 2657-2662 • DOI: 10.1021/jf001255z

Sam


> _______________________________________________
> Rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.mountainbitwarrior.com/ma...food.sourdough
>
>

On Dec 5, 4:40 pm, Sam > wrote:

> My pancakes are crepe style, not the standard 1/2" or so US fluffy pan
> cakes. So - the 2.7 kg would give me 13 batches and each maybe so 10/15
> pancakes each.

Super. We make something like that here, but I never thought to give a
name I could not pronounce, so I call them crepes (which I can
pronounce). Mostly we mill and ferment buckwheat groats, but
occasionally rye (most excellent), and sometimes hulled barley (also
good, but not as good as buckwheat or rye). Never done it with wheat,
since gluten happens.

Stuffing is fruit: apples or prunes with fermented thick cream. Except
in late fall when it's crappy outside, like now then we'll stuff with
sauted brussels sprouts, diced potato, and onions... which you
probably can't do because it's POLISH.

Just kidding.

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 11:02:18 -0800 (PST), Will
> wrote:

>On Dec 5, 4:40 pm, Sam > wrote:
>
>> My pancakes are crepe style, not the standard 1/2" or so US fluffy pan
>> cakes. So - the 2.7 kg would give me 13 batches and each maybe so 10/15
>> pancakes each.
>
>Super. We make something like that here, but I never thought to give a
>name I could not pronounce, so I call them crepes (which I can
>pronounce). Mostly we mill and ferment buckwheat groats, but
>occasionally rye (most excellent), and sometimes hulled barley (also
>good, but not as good as buckwheat or rye). Never done it with wheat,
>since gluten happens.
>
>Stuffing is fruit: apples or prunes with fermented thick cream. Except
>in late fall when it's crappy outside, like now then we'll stuff with
>sauted brussels sprouts, diced potato, and onions... which you
>probably can't do because it's POLISH.
>
>Just kidding.

Hey Will,

Could you say something more about "fermented thick cream?"

Are you doing the fermentin' or is this something you buy.

Many thanks,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Dec 6, 1:39 pm, Kenneth > wrote:

> Could you say something more about "fermented thick cream?"

It's regular cream (or whole milk depending on our needs) inoculated
with a small quantity of live culture buttermilk. Works great.
Ferments at temps between between 70 and 90 F. Makes outrageous ice
cream by the way. Nancy Silverton, I believe, also makes ice cream
with fermented dairy. I swear by it.

We retain the last 2 ounces of each batch to start the next one. The
consistency is unusual. It thickens and develops a cohesive quality as
if you'd added a binder.... which is why I think of it as thick.

We ferment about a gallon of whole milk per week in lieu of yogurt,
the kids love it.

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:23:42 -0800 (PST), Will
> wrote:

>On Dec 6, 1:39 pm, Kenneth > wrote:
>
>> Could you say something more about "fermented thick cream?"
>
>It's regular cream (or whole milk depending on our needs) inoculated
>with a small quantity of live culture buttermilk. Works great.
>Ferments at temps between between 70 and 90 F. Makes outrageous ice
>cream by the way. Nancy Silverton, I believe, also makes ice cream
>with fermented dairy. I swear by it.
>
>We retain the last 2 ounces of each batch to start the next one. The
>consistency is unusual. It thickens and develops a cohesive quality as
>if you'd added a binder.... which is why I think of it as thick.
>
>We ferment about a gallon of whole milk per week in lieu of yogurt,
>the kids love it.

Thanks Will,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Will wrote:
> On Dec 6, 1:39 pm, Kenneth > wrote:
>
>> Could you say something more about "fermented thick cream?"
>
> It's regular cream (or whole milk depending on our needs) inoculated
> with a small quantity of live culture buttermilk. Works great.
> Ferments at temps between between 70 and 90 F. Makes outrageous ice
> cream by the way. Nancy Silverton, I believe, also makes ice cream
> with fermented dairy. I swear by it.

That does sound great! I've had ice cream in only a few places, that
tastes like it's made with cultured milk. Do you use the thickened cram
or milk 1:1 in a normal recipe?

Dave

Dave Bell wrote:


> That does sound great! I've had ice cream in only a few places, that
> tastes like it's made with cultured milk. Do you use the thickened cram
> or milk 1:1 in a normal recipe?

We've done it with all cream (too dense for ice cream... but makes a
deadly, deadly, cheesecake), a mixture of milk and cream (rich and
good), and whole milk... which we like the best as it freezes really
well and is a bit lighter... a lot like high quality Italian sherbet.
Fermenting is key. Fermenting adds a wonderful crispness and
refreshing acidity that makes fruit stand up and deliver.

Buttermilk cultures are better than yogurt cultures. I don't know
why... but so much so, that we no longer bother with yogurt. Google
for fermented dairy ice creams or something similar... there's plenty
on the web.

A warning... this is addictive. If you like fermenting dough and
baking bread... you will probably like fermenting dairy and making
stuff with it. The same rules hold... your effort will be profoundly
better than what you can buy.

Will > wrote:
> Dave Bell wrote:
[ . . . ]
> A warning... this is addictive. If you like fermenting dough and
> baking bread... you will probably like fermenting dairy and making
> stuff with it. The same rules hold... your effort will be profoundly
> better than what you can buy.

My wife made a spinach salad with bacon and egg for my dinner. The dressing
was heavy cream and vinegar 3:1. Outstanding!

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I support them at https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops.
You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

It seems brilliant phrase to me is


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