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| Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures. |
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Newbie question
Hi,
We got so busy over the lovely past few months here in Vancouver Canada, have done no baking for a while. Raining now, so gonna bake soon. I have created a grand batch of about 2 litres of lovely starter in a covered glass bowl, has been in the fridge for several months. It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am tempted to mix it all in and proceed with making dough. Or thinking of skimming it off first... What do you recommend pls? TIA -bg- www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca PS - Enjoy the (rough mixes) of the music if you go the website. We will be putting new mixes up by end of Sept. Feedback appreciated. |
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Newbie question, partial self-answer
"**bg**" > wrote in message
news:sL9Qc.11452$J06.160@pd7tw2no... > Hi, > > We got so busy over the lovely past few months here in Vancouver Canada, > have done no baking for a while. Raining now, so gonna bake soon. > > I have created a grand batch of about 2 litres of lovely starter in a > covered glass bowl, has been in the fridge for several months. > > It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am tempted to > mix it all in and proceed with making dough. > > Or thinking of skimming it off first... > > What do you recommend pls? > > TIA > > -bg- > www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca > > PS - Enjoy the (rough mixes) of the music if you go the website. > We will be putting new mixes up by end of Sept. > Feedback appreciated. ____________________________ Hi, Just discovered this layer is likely 'hooch'. The FAQ I read on it does not mention the rather unpleasant colour that my layer has. The article suggests taking some starter from underneath the layer and starting again, for a 'healthier' product. This is the first time I have heard inference of it being unhealthy. Does this undersireable aspect of it just refer to the alcohol content... Tks. -bg- > |
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Newbie question, partial self-answer
"**bg**" > wrote in message
news:sL9Qc.11452$J06.160@pd7tw2no... > Hi, > > We got so busy over the lovely past few months here in Vancouver Canada, > have done no baking for a while. Raining now, so gonna bake soon. > > I have created a grand batch of about 2 litres of lovely starter in a > covered glass bowl, has been in the fridge for several months. > > It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am tempted to > mix it all in and proceed with making dough. > > Or thinking of skimming it off first... > > What do you recommend pls? > > TIA > > -bg- > www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca > > PS - Enjoy the (rough mixes) of the music if you go the website. > We will be putting new mixes up by end of Sept. > Feedback appreciated. ____________________________ Hi, Just discovered this layer is likely 'hooch'. The FAQ I read on it does not mention the rather unpleasant colour that my layer has. The article suggests taking some starter from underneath the layer and starting again, for a 'healthier' product. This is the first time I have heard inference of it being unhealthy. Does this undersireable aspect of it just refer to the alcohol content... Tks. -bg- > |
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Newbie question, partial self-answer
"**bg**" > wrote in message news:qY9Qc.11524$M95.3493@pd7tw1no... > "**bg**" > wrote in message > news:sL9Qc.11452$J06.160@pd7tw2no... > > Hi, > > > > We got so busy over the lovely past few months here in Vancouver Canada, > > have done no baking for a while. Raining now, so gonna bake soon. > > > > I have created a grand batch of about 2 litres of lovely starter in a > > covered glass bowl, has been in the fridge for several months. > > > > It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am tempted > to > > mix it all in and proceed with making dough. > > > > Or thinking of skimming it off first... > > > > What do you recommend pls? > > > > TIA > > > > -bg- > > www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca > > > > PS - Enjoy the (rough mixes) of the music if you go the website. > > We will be putting new mixes up by end of Sept. > > Feedback appreciated. > ____________________________ > Hi, > > Just discovered this layer is likely 'hooch'. The FAQ I read on it does not > mention the rather unpleasant colour that my layer has. > > The article suggests taking some starter from underneath the layer and > starting again, for a 'healthier' product. > > This is the first time I have heard inference of it being unhealthy. Does > this undersireable aspect of it just refer to the alcohol content... > > Tks. > > -bg- The reference is to the overall health and vitality of the starter. It does not mean that it is unhealthy for you. A starter that has sat long enough in the refrigerator to develop hooch and dark colors is telling you that it needs to be fed before it has enough strength to be used for making bread. Janet |
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Newbie question, partial self-answer
"**bg**" > wrote in message news:qY9Qc.11524$M95.3493@pd7tw1no... > "**bg**" > wrote in message > news:sL9Qc.11452$J06.160@pd7tw2no... > > Hi, > > > > We got so busy over the lovely past few months here in Vancouver Canada, > > have done no baking for a while. Raining now, so gonna bake soon. > > > > I have created a grand batch of about 2 litres of lovely starter in a > > covered glass bowl, has been in the fridge for several months. > > > > It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am tempted > to > > mix it all in and proceed with making dough. > > > > Or thinking of skimming it off first... > > > > What do you recommend pls? > > > > TIA > > > > -bg- > > www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca > > > > PS - Enjoy the (rough mixes) of the music if you go the website. > > We will be putting new mixes up by end of Sept. > > Feedback appreciated. > ____________________________ > Hi, > > Just discovered this layer is likely 'hooch'. The FAQ I read on it does not > mention the rather unpleasant colour that my layer has. > > The article suggests taking some starter from underneath the layer and > starting again, for a 'healthier' product. > > This is the first time I have heard inference of it being unhealthy. Does > this undersireable aspect of it just refer to the alcohol content... > > Tks. > > -bg- The reference is to the overall health and vitality of the starter. It does not mean that it is unhealthy for you. A starter that has sat long enough in the refrigerator to develop hooch and dark colors is telling you that it needs to be fed before it has enough strength to be used for making bread. Janet |
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Newbie question
**bg** wrote:eral months.
> > It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am tempted to > mix it all in and proceed with making dough. > > Or thinking of skimming it off first... > > What do you recommend pls? I'm still stuck at the idea of someone thinking they need over a half gallon of starter. B/ |
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Newbie question
**bg** wrote:eral months.
> > It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am tempted to > mix it all in and proceed with making dough. > > Or thinking of skimming it off first... > > What do you recommend pls? I'm still stuck at the idea of someone thinking they need over a half gallon of starter. B/ |
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Newbie recipe herein
"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
... > **bg** wrote:eral months. > > > > It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am tempted to > > mix it all in and proceed with making dough. > > > > Or thinking of skimming it off first... > > > > What do you recommend pls? > > I'm still stuck at the idea of someone thinking they need over a half > gallon of starter. > > B/ ___________________ Hey B, I will be baking two large loaves and eight buns on Friday, using up all the starter at one time, adding flour and water to the bit left in the bowl to start new batch of starter... Portions of the bake are roughly: 1 - 2 c (or more) starter 1 c all purpose flour 4 tbs oat bran 4 tbs soy flour 4 tbs whole wheat flour 4 tbs dark rye flour 2 tbs corn flour 2 tbs flax oil 1 tbs millet 1 tbs buckwheat groats 1 tbs lecithin 1 c (or so) water...to desired hydration, which varies 1 c = 250 ml Have a nice day. -bg- www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca |
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Newbie recipe herein
"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
... > **bg** wrote:eral months. > > > > It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am tempted to > > mix it all in and proceed with making dough. > > > > Or thinking of skimming it off first... > > > > What do you recommend pls? > > I'm still stuck at the idea of someone thinking they need over a half > gallon of starter. > > B/ ___________________ Hey B, I will be baking two large loaves and eight buns on Friday, using up all the starter at one time, adding flour and water to the bit left in the bowl to start new batch of starter... Portions of the bake are roughly: 1 - 2 c (or more) starter 1 c all purpose flour 4 tbs oat bran 4 tbs soy flour 4 tbs whole wheat flour 4 tbs dark rye flour 2 tbs corn flour 2 tbs flax oil 1 tbs millet 1 tbs buckwheat groats 1 tbs lecithin 1 c (or so) water...to desired hydration, which varies 1 c = 250 ml Have a nice day. -bg- www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca |
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Newbie question
On 8/4/04 1:18 PM, "**bg**" > wrote:
> Hi, > > We got so busy over the lovely past few months here in Vancouver Canada, > have done no baking for a while. Raining now, so gonna bake soon. > > I have created a grand batch of about 2 litres of lovely starter in a > covered glass bowl, has been in the fridge for several months. > > It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am tempted to > mix it all in and proceed with making dough. > > Or thinking of skimming it off first... > > What do you recommend pls? > > TIA > > -bg- > www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca > > PS - Enjoy the (rough mixes) of the music if you go the website. > We will be putting new mixes up by end of Sept. > Feedback appreciated. > Pour off the liquid on top. Keep about about 2 tablespoons of that old starter. Toss the rest. Add your reserved starter to about five or six tablespoons of new flour+water mixture. Let it activate, then feed at least twice before using. You should be ready to go in two or three days. When starter gets as old as yours it becomes too acidic to build a loaf with. So you re-balance with new flour+water, then feed a couple of cycles before building a new dough. Good luck! Will > > _______________________________________________ > rec.food.sourdough mailing list > > http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough |
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Newbie question
On 8/4/04 1:18 PM, "**bg**" > wrote:
> Hi, > > We got so busy over the lovely past few months here in Vancouver Canada, > have done no baking for a while. Raining now, so gonna bake soon. > > I have created a grand batch of about 2 litres of lovely starter in a > covered glass bowl, has been in the fridge for several months. > > It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am tempted to > mix it all in and proceed with making dough. > > Or thinking of skimming it off first... > > What do you recommend pls? > > TIA > > -bg- > www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca > > PS - Enjoy the (rough mixes) of the music if you go the website. > We will be putting new mixes up by end of Sept. > Feedback appreciated. > Pour off the liquid on top. Keep about about 2 tablespoons of that old starter. Toss the rest. Add your reserved starter to about five or six tablespoons of new flour+water mixture. Let it activate, then feed at least twice before using. You should be ready to go in two or three days. When starter gets as old as yours it becomes too acidic to build a loaf with. So you re-balance with new flour+water, then feed a couple of cycles before building a new dough. Good luck! Will > > _______________________________________________ > rec.food.sourdough mailing list > > http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough |
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Newbie recipe herein
in article q5cQc.12689$gE.3463@pd7tw3no, **bg** at
wrote on 4/8/04 1:57 PM: > "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message > ... >> **bg** wrote:eral months. >>> >>> It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am > tempted to >>> mix it all in and proceed with making dough. >>> >>> Or thinking of skimming it off first... >>> >>> What do you recommend pls? >> >> I'm still stuck at the idea of someone thinking they need over a half >> gallon of starter. >> >> B/ > ___________________ > Hey B, > > I will be baking two large loaves and eight buns on Friday, using up all the > starter at one time, adding flour and water to the bit left in the bowl to > start new batch of starter... > > Portions of the bake are roughly: > > 1 - 2 c (or more) starter > 1 c all purpose flour > 4 tbs oat bran > 4 tbs soy flour > 4 tbs whole wheat flour > 4 tbs dark rye flour > 2 tbs corn flour > 2 tbs flax oil > 1 tbs millet > 1 tbs buckwheat groats > 1 tbs lecithin > 1 c (or so) water...to desired hydration, which varies > > 1 c = 250 ml > > Have a nice day. > > -bg- > www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca > > That may be a really interesting "bread". Usually one uses a small amount of starter and a larger amount of flour. Ellen -- |
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Newbie recipe herein
in article q5cQc.12689$gE.3463@pd7tw3no, **bg** at
wrote on 4/8/04 1:57 PM: > "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message > ... >> **bg** wrote:eral months. >>> >>> It is about 5" deep, with about 1/4" of dark liquid on top. I am > tempted to >>> mix it all in and proceed with making dough. >>> >>> Or thinking of skimming it off first... >>> >>> What do you recommend pls? >> >> I'm still stuck at the idea of someone thinking they need over a half >> gallon of starter. >> >> B/ > ___________________ > Hey B, > > I will be baking two large loaves and eight buns on Friday, using up all the > starter at one time, adding flour and water to the bit left in the bowl to > start new batch of starter... > > Portions of the bake are roughly: > > 1 - 2 c (or more) starter > 1 c all purpose flour > 4 tbs oat bran > 4 tbs soy flour > 4 tbs whole wheat flour > 4 tbs dark rye flour > 2 tbs corn flour > 2 tbs flax oil > 1 tbs millet > 1 tbs buckwheat groats > 1 tbs lecithin > 1 c (or so) water...to desired hydration, which varies > > 1 c = 250 ml > > Have a nice day. > > -bg- > www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca > > That may be a really interesting "bread". Usually one uses a small amount of starter and a larger amount of flour. Ellen -- |
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> > > That may be a really interesting "bread". Usually one uses a small amount > of starter and a larger amount of flour. > Ellen > -- > Are there any guidelines or "rules of thumb" or ratios that one might keep in mind when considering how much starter to use or not overuse in a recipe? Thanks, Dee |
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Dee Randall wrote: > > Are there any guidelines or "rules of thumb" or ratios that one might keep > in mind when considering how much starter to use or not overuse in a recipe? > Yes and no or it all depends are all good answers to that question. However, if you mean plain white sourdough bread, the preponderence recipes are going to be close to 1 cup starter for a two loaf recipe where the starter is in the pourable hydration range. Of course that any ratio is the most popular does not mean that it is the best one. You need to know what method is being used. Are we talking One stage, two stage, more? Also it is in the mind of the observer. When I take out a spoon of storage starter and grow it until I have bread dough, when exactly is it that I stop growing start and begin making dough? Does it matter? The way to evaluate a new recipe or procedure in the absense of considerable experience is to try it out and see the result rather than depending on something as unreliable as a rule of thumb. If you want to learn how to bake bread, bake bread. Here is a recipe: I cup starter 2 cups water about a tablespoon of salt, maybe less about six cups of flour more or less Bake this recipe twice a week for a year. Try different procedures, different ways to get to the one cup of starter. Try different kneading routines, different temperatures, different grades of flour Etc. Change one thing at a time and keep notes. At the end of a year , you will have learned a little about baking bread. On the other hand, there is nothing difficult at all about bread. The Stone Age cultures baked bread, not a college degree or high school diploma among them. It only gets difficult when we feel that we must exactly control the outcomes and understand the science in the process. Then we turn to authors that don't really understand what is going on, but spin good tales. We belive, we get confused - for no good reason. Forget the bogus science. The two most important rules a 1. Keep good Karma in the kitchen 2. Don't **** off the Bread Faeries Regards Charles -- Charles Perry Reply to: ** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand ** |
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"Charles Perry" > wrote in message ... > > > Dee Randall wrote: > > > > > Are there any guidelines or "rules of thumb" or ratios that one might keep > > in mind when considering how much starter to use or not overuse in a recipe? > > > > Yes and no or it all depends are all good answers to that > question. However, if you mean plain white sourdough bread, the > preponderence recipes are going to be close to 1 cup starter for > a two loaf recipe where the starter is in the pourable hydration > range. > > Of course that any ratio is the most popular does not mean that > it is the best one. You need to know what method is being used. > Are we talking One stage, two stage, more? Also it is in the > mind of the observer. When I take out a spoon of storage starter > and grow it until I have bread dough, when exactly is it that I > stop growing start and begin making dough? Does it matter? > > The way to evaluate a new recipe or procedure in the absense of > considerable experience is to try it out and see the result > rather than depending on something as unreliable as a rule of > thumb. If you want to learn how to bake bread, bake bread. Here > is a recipe: > > I cup starter > 2 cups water > about a tablespoon of salt, maybe less > about six cups of flour more or less > > Bake this recipe twice a week for a year. Try different > procedures, different ways to get to the one cup of starter. Try > different kneading routines, different temperatures, different > grades of flour Etc. Change one thing at a time and keep notes. > At the end of a year , you will have learned a little about > baking bread. > > On the other hand, there is nothing difficult at all about > bread. The Stone Age cultures baked bread, not a college degree > or high school diploma among them. It only gets difficult when > we feel that we must exactly control the outcomes and understand > the science in the process. Then we turn to authors that don't > really understand what is going on, but spin good tales. We > belive, we get confused - for no good reason. > > Forget the bogus science. The two most important rules a > > 1. Keep good Karma in the kitchen > > 2. Don't **** off the Bread Faeries Thanks very much, Charles, for your thoughtful answer. Dee |
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> "Charles Perry" > wrote in message > ... <snip> >> On the other hand, there is nothing difficult at all about >> bread. The Stone Age cultures baked bread, not a college degree >> or high school diploma among them. We might add... especially since we have steam injected ovens, gas and electric ranges, baker's math, flour mills and gram scales. (things that took education to develop...) I believe it was more challenging and took greater insight to bake bread when the technology we take for granted is absent. >>It only gets difficult when we feel that we must exactly control the outcomes >> and understand the science in the process. I suspect this is why we got past the Stone Age. >>Then we turn to authors that don't really understand what is going on, but >>spin good tales. We believe, we get confused - for no good reason. >> So the professionals: Nancy Silverton, Peter Reinhart et al. don't get it. What's mo we are sheep. >> Forget the bogus science. The two most important rules a >> >> 1. Keep good Karma in the kitchen >> >> 2. Don't **** off the Bread Faeries > Baaa!!! Sorry Charles... I couldn't help myself. Will |
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> "Charles Perry" > wrote in message > ... <snip> >> On the other hand, there is nothing difficult at all about >> bread. The Stone Age cultures baked bread, not a college degree >> or high school diploma among them. We might add... especially since we have steam injected ovens, gas and electric ranges, baker's math, flour mills and gram scales. (things that took education to develop...) I believe it was more challenging and took greater insight to bake bread when the technology we take for granted is absent. >>It only gets difficult when we feel that we must exactly control the outcomes >> and understand the science in the process. I suspect this is why we got past the Stone Age. >>Then we turn to authors that don't really understand what is going on, but >>spin good tales. We believe, we get confused - for no good reason. >> So the professionals: Nancy Silverton, Peter Reinhart et al. don't get it. What's mo we are sheep. >> Forget the bogus science. The two most important rules a >> >> 1. Keep good Karma in the kitchen >> >> 2. Don't **** off the Bread Faeries > Baaa!!! Sorry Charles... I couldn't help myself. Will |
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williamwaller wrote: > > > ...I suspect this is why we got past the Stone Age. I don't argue a Luddite position. There are times when technology and precision measurments are indispensable. I am saying that it is easy to get on a quest for knowledge about bread that can get in the way of learning how to actually make bread. However, in this hand I hold a loaf of Wonder Bread, it's great stuff. It is made by high tech equiptment that is tended by the best engineers and scienists that money can buy. They have every tool known to keep the production process flawless. Over here, I have a loaf of bread flown in from France(right now you know this is fiction) from the bakery of M. Poliane. This loaf is baked in a wood fired brick oven of an old design. The baker is not allowed to even use a thermometer. He must know his oven well enough to gauge the temperature by the look of the coals and the feel of the heat on his hand. ( I read this on the Poliane Website). Which bread do you want with your wine and cheese? > > So the professionals: Nancy Silverton, Peter Reinhart et al. don't get it. The late James Beard wrote a great book called "Beard on Bread." The book is famous for the misinformation about sourdough it contained. Mr. Beard was a great cook, author, and eater. Because he was regarded as almost a god by the foodies of the time, his words on sourdough were treated as gospel. Worse, his misinformation was quoted, cribed, and outright plagerized by lesser writers for years. Derivitive writings are all over the place. I believed what he wrote and it delayed my sucess with sourdough for some time. Ignoring the sourdough advice, the book is still a good read and still in print. Nancy Silverton and Peter Reinhart are good authors of a more recent vintage. I have all their books and have enjoyed reading them. Now I wouldn't for a moment disparage either as a baker or author or as a person, but I still think it would be a mistake to treat every word they write as gospel. I have learned that lesson. Anyway, nobody can be the expert in every aspect of baking. For example. I think if I wanted to have a serious discussion on beginning a starter from scratch, I would rather have that discussion with Samartha than Nancy. If, God forbid, I needed to have information on how enzymes facillitate the chemical transformations in a fermentation process, I would probably consult Dick Adams before Peter Reinhart. > What's mo we are sheep. I did not say that. You did. But, there is no question that many folks read things, get confused, and post here seeking clarification. My point is simply that the best way to learn about bread is to bake some. > Baaa!!! > Then, on the other hand, if it bleets like a sheep... Regards, Charles -- Charles Perry Reply to: ** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand ** |
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williamwaller wrote: > > > ...I suspect this is why we got past the Stone Age. I don't argue a Luddite position. There are times when technology and precision measurments are indispensable. I am saying that it is easy to get on a quest for knowledge about bread that can get in the way of learning how to actually make bread. However, in this hand I hold a loaf of Wonder Bread, it's great stuff. It is made by high tech equiptment that is tended by the best engineers and scienists that money can buy. They have every tool known to keep the production process flawless. Over here, I have a loaf of bread flown in from France(right now you know this is fiction) from the bakery of M. Poliane. This loaf is baked in a wood fired brick oven of an old design. The baker is not allowed to even use a thermometer. He must know his oven well enough to gauge the temperature by the look of the coals and the feel of the heat on his hand. ( I read this on the Poliane Website). Which bread do you want with your wine and cheese? > > So the professionals: Nancy Silverton, Peter Reinhart et al. don't get it. The late James Beard wrote a great book called "Beard on Bread." The book is famous for the misinformation about sourdough it contained. Mr. Beard was a great cook, author, and eater. Because he was regarded as almost a god by the foodies of the time, his words on sourdough were treated as gospel. Worse, his misinformation was quoted, cribed, and outright plagerized by lesser writers for years. Derivitive writings are all over the place. I believed what he wrote and it delayed my sucess with sourdough for some time. Ignoring the sourdough advice, the book is still a good read and still in print. Nancy Silverton and Peter Reinhart are good authors of a more recent vintage. I have all their books and have enjoyed reading them. Now I wouldn't for a moment disparage either as a baker or author or as a person, but I still think it would be a mistake to treat every word they write as gospel. I have learned that lesson. Anyway, nobody can be the expert in every aspect of baking. For example. I think if I wanted to have a serious discussion on beginning a starter from scratch, I would rather have that discussion with Samartha than Nancy. If, God forbid, I needed to have information on how enzymes facillitate the chemical transformations in a fermentation process, I would probably consult Dick Adams before Peter Reinhart. > What's mo we are sheep. I did not say that. You did. But, there is no question that many folks read things, get confused, and post here seeking clarification. My point is simply that the best way to learn about bread is to bake some. > Baaa!!! > Then, on the other hand, if it bleets like a sheep... Regards, Charles -- Charles Perry Reply to: ** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand ** |
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On 8/29/04 10:27 PM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:
> > > williamwaller wrote: >> >> >> ...I suspect this is why we got past the Stone Age. > > I don't argue a Luddite position. There are times when > technology and precision measurments are indispensable. I am > saying that it is easy to get on a quest for knowledge about > bread that can get in the way of learning how to actually make > bread. Every learning curve involves turbulence. Sometimes we need direct experience, sometimes we need exposure to another perspective or hand-me-down knowledge or a contrary opinion (DickA for example). > > However, in this hand I hold a loaf of Wonder Bread, it's great > stuff. It is made by high tech equiptment that is tended by the > best engineers and scienists that money can buy. They have every > tool known to keep the production process flawless. Over here, I > have a loaf of bread flown in from France(right now you know this > is fiction) from the bakery of M. Poliane. This loaf is baked in > a wood fired brick oven of an old design. The baker is not > allowed to even use a thermometer. He must know his oven well > enough to gauge the temperature by the look of the coals and the > feel of the heat on his hand. ( I read this on the Poliane > Website). Which bread do you want with your wine and cheese? > I choose M. Poilane. But truth be told... I would be just as satisfied with your bread, Charles. >> So the professionals: Nancy Silverton, Peter Reinhart et al. don't get it. > The late James Beard wrote a great book called "Beard on Bread." > The book is famous for the misinformation about sourdough it > contained. Mr. Beard was a great cook, author, and eater. > Because he was regarded as almost a god by the foodies of the > time, his words on sourdough were treated as gospel. Worse, his > misinformation was quoted, cribed, and outright plagerized by > lesser writers for years. Derivitive writings are all over the > place. I believed what he wrote and it delayed my sucess with > sourdough for some time. Ignoring the sourdough advice, the book > is still a good read and still in print. > I had/have Beard's book too. Fortunately I relied on the Tassajara Bread book back then. Not that it was much better but I believe the monastery was using an Alan Scott oven. That steered them in the right direction. > Nancy Silverton and Peter Reinhart are good authors of a more > recent vintage. I have all their books and have enjoyed reading > them. Now I wouldn't for a moment disparage either as a baker or > author or as a person, but I still think it would be a mistake to > treat every word they write as gospel. I have learned that > lesson. Anyway, nobody can be the expert in every aspect of > baking. > For example. I think if I wanted to have a serious discussion on > beginning a starter from scratch, I would rather have that > discussion with Samartha than Nancy. If, God forbid, I needed to > have information on how enzymes facillitate the chemical > transformations in a fermentation process, I would probably > consult Dick Adams before Peter Reinhart. True enough. Nancy's method of developing a starter from scratch is the most complicated I have read. But if you consulted DickA for enzymatic issues RoyB would be insulted. >> What's mo we are sheep. > > I did not say that. You did. But, there is no question that > many folks read things, get confused, and post here seeking > clarification. My point is simply that the best way to learn > about bread is to bake some. > True. But it was not a far-fetched impression... > >> Baaa!!! >> > Then, on the other hand, if it bleets like a sheep... > Or quacks like a duck... > Regards, > > Charles All the best, Will |
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On 8/29/04 10:27 PM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:
> > > williamwaller wrote: >> >> >> ...I suspect this is why we got past the Stone Age. > > I don't argue a Luddite position. There are times when > technology and precision measurments are indispensable. I am > saying that it is easy to get on a quest for knowledge about > bread that can get in the way of learning how to actually make > bread. Every learning curve involves turbulence. Sometimes we need direct experience, sometimes we need exposure to another perspective or hand-me-down knowledge or a contrary opinion (DickA for example). > > However, in this hand I hold a loaf of Wonder Bread, it's great > stuff. It is made by high tech equiptment that is tended by the > best engineers and scienists that money can buy. They have every > tool known to keep the production process flawless. Over here, I > have a loaf of bread flown in from France(right now you know this > is fiction) from the bakery of M. Poliane. This loaf is baked in > a wood fired brick oven of an old design. The baker is not > allowed to even use a thermometer. He must know his oven well > enough to gauge the temperature by the look of the coals and the > feel of the heat on his hand. ( I read this on the Poliane > Website). Which bread do you want with your wine and cheese? > I choose M. Poilane. But truth be told... I would be just as satisfied with your bread, Charles. >> So the professionals: Nancy Silverton, Peter Reinhart et al. don't get it. > The late James Beard wrote a great book called "Beard on Bread." > The book is famous for the misinformation about sourdough it > contained. Mr. Beard was a great cook, author, and eater. > Because he was regarded as almost a god by the foodies of the > time, his words on sourdough were treated as gospel. Worse, his > misinformation was quoted, cribed, and outright plagerized by > lesser writers for years. Derivitive writings are all over the > place. I believed what he wrote and it delayed my sucess with > sourdough for some time. Ignoring the sourdough advice, the book > is still a good read and still in print. > I had/have Beard's book too. Fortunately I relied on the Tassajara Bread book back then. Not that it was much better but I believe the monastery was using an Alan Scott oven. That steered them in the right direction. > Nancy Silverton and Peter Reinhart are good authors of a more > recent vintage. I have all their books and have enjoyed reading > them. Now I wouldn't for a moment disparage either as a baker or > author or as a person, but I still think it would be a mistake to > treat every word they write as gospel. I have learned that > lesson. Anyway, nobody can be the expert in every aspect of > baking. > For example. I think if I wanted to have a serious discussion on > beginning a starter from scratch, I would rather have that > discussion with Samartha than Nancy. If, God forbid, I needed to > have information on how enzymes facillitate the chemical > transformations in a fermentation process, I would probably > consult Dick Adams before Peter Reinhart. True enough. Nancy's method of developing a starter from scratch is the most complicated I have read. But if you consulted DickA for enzymatic issues RoyB would be insulted. >> What's mo we are sheep. > > I did not say that. You did. But, there is no question that > many folks read things, get confused, and post here seeking > clarification. My point is simply that the best way to learn > about bread is to bake some. > True. But it was not a far-fetched impression... > >> Baaa!!! >> > Then, on the other hand, if it bleets like a sheep... > Or quacks like a duck... > Regards, > > Charles All the best, Will |
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williamwaller wrote: > > > I choose M. Poilane. But truth be told... I would be just as satisfied with > your bread, Charles. > Very nice of you to say that , Will. I am almost never satisfied with my own bread. You would have to hope for a good day. > True enough. Nancy's method of developing a starter from scratch is the most > complicated I have read. But if you consulted DickA for enzymatic issues > RoyB would be insulted. > I don't know. Somehow from the posts that I have read over the years, I formed the impression that Roy was expert in commercial production systems and that Dick had some specialization with enzymes. They will have to speak for themselves. I just picked a couple of names to illustrate a point of discussion. No offence meant to experts not mentioned. Regards, Charles -- Charles Perry Reply to: ** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand ** |
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williamwaller wrote: > > > I choose M. Poilane. But truth be told... I would be just as satisfied with > your bread, Charles. > Very nice of you to say that , Will. I am almost never satisfied with my own bread. You would have to hope for a good day. > True enough. Nancy's method of developing a starter from scratch is the most > complicated I have read. But if you consulted DickA for enzymatic issues > RoyB would be insulted. > I don't know. Somehow from the posts that I have read over the years, I formed the impression that Roy was expert in commercial production systems and that Dick had some specialization with enzymes. They will have to speak for themselves. I just picked a couple of names to illustrate a point of discussion. No offence meant to experts not mentioned. Regards, Charles -- Charles Perry Reply to: ** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand ** |
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