Hey everyone, just a little update here I guess, and some more insight.

I'm on day 5 I think of the Rye starter, on day 3 I started switching over
to normal all-purpouse flour, and an interesting thing happened. The night
before I switched, as I posted, It rose so much overnight that it escaped
it's container. After cleaning it up, There was approximately 1 cup of sour
smelling starter in there. I added 1/2 cup of white flour (when I say white
I mean all-purpouse normal stuff), stirred it, and let it sit. Amazingly,
all day it really didn't do anything... I was dumbstruck because usually as
I checked it throughout the day I could see bubbles and development. I let
it sit overnight, and in the morning there was a small amount of hooch on
top. Perhaps half a centimeter. Also there was very little, if any, evidence
of it growing through the night. I thought maybe something had happened to
it (it hasn't been over 100 degrees), perhaps the yeast doesn't like white
flour? lol. Anyhow, I fed it in the morning regardless (this is yesterday),
and all day there was very little activity. Worried, I thought maybe I would
boost the yeast count a little so I added maybe a quarter cup of rye flour
again. That was last night. Thankfully, this morning it grew and bubbles
were present! Today I fed it again, normal white flour, and it seems to be
growing just fine again now. Any ideas on what happened? I'm determined to
bake a loaf soon, I've been growing this stuff all week ;p

Currently today, it has risen and collapsed a little, and it has a more
pleasant sour odor to it (before it was VERY strong smelling, now it smells
really nice) the bubbles right now are actually very large and healthy
looking (i suppose, I've never done this before). Do you think I could bake
a loaf tomorrow with it to see how it is, and continue it more?

Thanks.

-Dan-

Dan,

At 06:12 PM 8/12/2004, you wrote:
>Hey everyone, just a little update here I guess, and some more insight.
>
>I'm on day 5 I think of the Rye starter, on day 3 I started switching over
>to normal all-purpouse flour, and an interesting thing happened. The night
>before I switched, as I posted, It rose so much overnight that it escaped
>it's container. After cleaning it up, There was approximately 1 cup of sour
>smelling starter in there. I added 1/2 cup of white flour (when I say white
>I mean all-purpouse normal stuff), stirred it, and let it sit. Amazingly,
>all day it really didn't do anything...

What you did in essence was to approximately double the flour on an
(suspected) oversour starter and that did not give it enough boost to get
it out of the hole and that's why you did not see much of activity. With
your next feedings (you did not give any ratios of old/new) you apparently
gave it enough lift or started something new with the rye which could have
been the reason for the stink.

The mechanics of growing a starter are fairly simple.

When you grow a new starter, it needs to "weed" itself out, i. e. grow sour
over time so the undesired organisms die out.

The organisms grow geometrically i. e. double within a time frame and if
you feed a constant amount into an increasing starter amount with
increasing organisms, they will eventually outgrow your food supply and
collapse because the constant food input does not keep up with the growth
factor.

The tricky part is to recognize when it is getting oversour because if it's
not recognized, you get this lifeless something you may have gotten.

To maintain a starter is a different story. It is not desirable to get a
lifeless mass, so watching the ratio of food supply to existing starter is
essential.

Tripling usually works.

You mention a temperature of 100 F - so if it gets warmer than 75/85 F,
things may grow quicker.

You also mention that you are tinkering with it for about a week. That
sounds long.

If you have not, maybe looking at http://samartha.net/SD/MakeStarter01.html
could give you some ideas about time frames, amounts and such.

I suspect that white flour would be quicker in depletion and slower in
getting started and with somewhat higher temperature all may be moving quicker.

Somewhere, as a rule of thumb, I read that a new starter, once it collapsed
twice and smells ok is good enough to make bread.

There are processes which make soured bread without using a starter
(heard/read only, never tried - but curious) and this appears to work as well.

It's always enjoying to hear that folks are growing starers from scratch
(what you seem to do), so all the best.

Samartha



remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

Dan,

At 06:12 PM 8/12/2004, you wrote:
>Hey everyone, just a little update here I guess, and some more insight.
>
>I'm on day 5 I think of the Rye starter, on day 3 I started switching over
>to normal all-purpouse flour, and an interesting thing happened. The night
>before I switched, as I posted, It rose so much overnight that it escaped
>it's container. After cleaning it up, There was approximately 1 cup of sour
>smelling starter in there. I added 1/2 cup of white flour (when I say white
>I mean all-purpouse normal stuff), stirred it, and let it sit. Amazingly,
>all day it really didn't do anything...

What you did in essence was to approximately double the flour on an
(suspected) oversour starter and that did not give it enough boost to get
it out of the hole and that's why you did not see much of activity. With
your next feedings (you did not give any ratios of old/new) you apparently
gave it enough lift or started something new with the rye which could have
been the reason for the stink.

The mechanics of growing a starter are fairly simple.

When you grow a new starter, it needs to "weed" itself out, i. e. grow sour
over time so the undesired organisms die out.

The organisms grow geometrically i. e. double within a time frame and if
you feed a constant amount into an increasing starter amount with
increasing organisms, they will eventually outgrow your food supply and
collapse because the constant food input does not keep up with the growth
factor.

The tricky part is to recognize when it is getting oversour because if it's
not recognized, you get this lifeless something you may have gotten.

To maintain a starter is a different story. It is not desirable to get a
lifeless mass, so watching the ratio of food supply to existing starter is
essential.

Tripling usually works.

You mention a temperature of 100 F - so if it gets warmer than 75/85 F,
things may grow quicker.

You also mention that you are tinkering with it for about a week. That
sounds long.

If you have not, maybe looking at http://samartha.net/SD/MakeStarter01.html
could give you some ideas about time frames, amounts and such.

I suspect that white flour would be quicker in depletion and slower in
getting started and with somewhat higher temperature all may be moving quicker.

Somewhere, as a rule of thumb, I read that a new starter, once it collapsed
twice and smells ok is good enough to make bread.

There are processes which make soured bread without using a starter
(heard/read only, never tried - but curious) and this appears to work as well.

It's always enjoying to hear that folks are growing starers from scratch
(what you seem to do), so all the best.

Samartha



remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address