Lopsided loaves
 

Hi folks,

The last two loaves I've baked have been almost identical in that after
I put them in the oven, one side has risen significantly higher than the
other. So much so that on the "high" side the dough actually tore around
the cut, while on the other it just opened up the slit. Both times it's
been the same side which has done this, so it seems likely that the oven
is hotter on one side than the other. My oven (electric) allows me to
control whether the oven fan is on or off, so I'm wondering what people
here do - do you bake with your oven fan on? So far I've always baked
with it off (thinking it would dry the loaves out too much) but perhaps
this is a way of more evenly distributing the heat.

Thanks,

james

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:35:47 +0800, James >
wrote:

>Hi folks,
>
>The last two loaves I've baked have been almost identical in that after
>I put them in the oven, one side has risen significantly higher than the
>other. So much so that on the "high" side the dough actually tore around
>the cut, while on the other it just opened up the slit. Both times it's
>been the same side which has done this, so it seems likely that the oven
>is hotter on one side than the other. My oven (electric) allows me to
>control whether the oven fan is on or off, so I'm wondering what people
>here do - do you bake with your oven fan on? So far I've always baked
>with it off (thinking it would dry the loaves out too much) but perhaps
>this is a way of more evenly distributing the heat.
>
>Thanks,
>
>james

Hi James,

I would suggest that you just turn the loaves after the first part of
the bake...

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:35:47 +0800, James >
wrote:

>Hi folks,
>
>The last two loaves I've baked have been almost identical in that after
>I put them in the oven, one side has risen significantly higher than the
>other. So much so that on the "high" side the dough actually tore around
>the cut, while on the other it just opened up the slit. Both times it's
>been the same side which has done this, so it seems likely that the oven
>is hotter on one side than the other. My oven (electric) allows me to
>control whether the oven fan is on or off, so I'm wondering what people
>here do - do you bake with your oven fan on? So far I've always baked
>with it off (thinking it would dry the loaves out too much) but perhaps
>this is a way of more evenly distributing the heat.
>
>Thanks,
>
>james

Hi James,

I would suggest that you just turn the loaves after the first part of
the bake...

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

>
>Hi folks,
>
>The last two loaves I've baked have been almost identical in that after
>I put them in the oven, one side has risen significantly higher than the
>other. So much so that on the "high" side the dough actually tore around
>the cut, while on the other it just opened up the slit. Both times it's
>been the same side which has done this, so it seems likely that the oven
>is hotter on one side than the other. My oven (electric) allows me to
>control whether the oven fan is on or off, so I'm wondering what people
>here do - do you bake with your oven fan on? So far I've always baked
>with it off (thinking it would dry the loaves out too much) but perhaps
>this is a way of more evenly distributing the heat.
>
>Thanks,
>
>james
>
When I had a fan oven I always baked with the fan on, never noticed any drying
out, from my experience that's an old wives' tale, though others may disagree.


How did you shape the loaves? Sometimes the shaping method can lead to greater
rise on one side of a loaf.

John

>
>Hi folks,
>
>The last two loaves I've baked have been almost identical in that after
>I put them in the oven, one side has risen significantly higher than the
>other. So much so that on the "high" side the dough actually tore around
>the cut, while on the other it just opened up the slit. Both times it's
>been the same side which has done this, so it seems likely that the oven
>is hotter on one side than the other. My oven (electric) allows me to
>control whether the oven fan is on or off, so I'm wondering what people
>here do - do you bake with your oven fan on? So far I've always baked
>with it off (thinking it would dry the loaves out too much) but perhaps
>this is a way of more evenly distributing the heat.
>
>Thanks,
>
>james
>
When I had a fan oven I always baked with the fan on, never noticed any drying
out, from my experience that's an old wives' tale, though others may disagree.


How did you shape the loaves? Sometimes the shaping method can lead to greater
rise on one side of a loaf.

John

>
>On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:35:47 +0800, James >
>wrote:
>
>>Hi folks,
>>
>>The last two loaves I've baked have been almost identical in that after
>>I put them in the oven, one side has risen significantly higher than the
>>other. So much so that on the "high" side the dough actually tore around
>>the cut, while on the other it just opened up the slit. Both times it's
>>been the same side which has done this, so it seems likely that the oven
>>is hotter on one side than the other. My oven (electric) allows me to
>>control whether the oven fan is on or off, so I'm wondering what people
>>here do - do you bake with your oven fan on? So far I've always baked
>>with it off (thinking it would dry the loaves out too much) but perhaps
>>this is a way of more evenly distributing the heat.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>james
>
>Hi James,
>
>I would suggest that you just turn the loaves after the first part of
>the bake...
>
>HTH,
>
>--
>Kenneth
>
That doesn't solve the problem, Kenneth. The lopsides rise appears in the first
few minutes of the bake and, by the time the loaf is baked enough to turn
without risk of deflation, the shape is pretty much set.

John

>
>On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:35:47 +0800, James >
>wrote:
>
>>Hi folks,
>>
>>The last two loaves I've baked have been almost identical in that after
>>I put them in the oven, one side has risen significantly higher than the
>>other. So much so that on the "high" side the dough actually tore around
>>the cut, while on the other it just opened up the slit. Both times it's
>>been the same side which has done this, so it seems likely that the oven
>>is hotter on one side than the other. My oven (electric) allows me to
>>control whether the oven fan is on or off, so I'm wondering what people
>>here do - do you bake with your oven fan on? So far I've always baked
>>with it off (thinking it would dry the loaves out too much) but perhaps
>>this is a way of more evenly distributing the heat.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>james
>
>Hi James,
>
>I would suggest that you just turn the loaves after the first part of
>the bake...
>
>HTH,
>
>--
>Kenneth
>
That doesn't solve the problem, Kenneth. The lopsides rise appears in the first
few minutes of the bake and, by the time the loaf is baked enough to turn
without risk of deflation, the shape is pretty much set.

John

Wcsjohn wrote:

> That doesn't solve the problem, Kenneth. The lopsides rise appears in the first
> few minutes of the bake and, by the time the loaf is baked enough to turn
> without risk of deflation, the shape is pretty much set.

You took the words out of my mouth, John. I tried turning them after
about 10 minutes (both times) and it was too late - the damage had
already been done.

james

Wcsjohn wrote:

> That doesn't solve the problem, Kenneth. The lopsides rise appears in the first
> few minutes of the bake and, by the time the loaf is baked enough to turn
> without risk of deflation, the shape is pretty much set.

You took the words out of my mouth, John. I tried turning them after
about 10 minutes (both times) and it was too late - the damage had
already been done.

james

Wcsjohn wrote:

> When I had a fan oven I always baked with the fan on, never noticed any drying
> out, from my experience that's an old wives' tale, though others may disagree.

That's good to know.. tomorrow I'll have another go with the fan on.

> How did you shape the loaves? Sometimes the shaping method can lead to greater
> rise on one side of a loaf.

I had shaped the dough into a boule, just by tucking the dough
underneath and leaving it to rest. It seemed suspicious that it happened
on the same side both times. I've not noticed this with normal yeasted
bread, but then again I did tend to bake mostly baguettes.

james

Wcsjohn wrote:

> When I had a fan oven I always baked with the fan on, never noticed any drying
> out, from my experience that's an old wives' tale, though others may disagree.

That's good to know.. tomorrow I'll have another go with the fan on.

> How did you shape the loaves? Sometimes the shaping method can lead to greater
> rise on one side of a loaf.

I had shaped the dough into a boule, just by tucking the dough
underneath and leaving it to rest. It seemed suspicious that it happened
on the same side both times. I've not noticed this with normal yeasted
bread, but then again I did tend to bake mostly baguettes.

james

>
>> When I had a fan oven I always baked with the fan on, never noticed any
>drying
>> out, from my experience that's an old wives' tale, though others may
>disagree.
>
>That's good to know.. tomorrow I'll have another go with the fan on.
>
>> How did you shape the loaves? Sometimes the shaping method can lead to
>greater
>> rise on one side of a loaf.
>
>I had shaped the dough into a boule, just by tucking the dough
>underneath and leaving it to rest. It seemed suspicious that it happened
>on the same side both times. I've not noticed this with normal yeasted
>bread, but then again I did tend to bake mostly baguettes.
>
>james

Making a boule by tucking under should, indeed, produce a symmetrical loaf, I
think your suspicions about the oven are well founded.

Try it with the fan on, I'd be interested to know the result.

John

On 9/25/04 8:55 AM, "James" > wrote:

> Wcsjohn wrote:
>
>> That doesn't solve the problem, Kenneth. The lopsides rise appears in the
>> first
>> few minutes of the bake and, by the time the loaf is baked enough to turn
>> without risk of deflation, the shape is pretty much set.
>
> You took the words out of my mouth, John. I tried turning them after
> about 10 minutes (both times) and it was too late - the damage had
> already been done.
>
> james

When you sectioned the loaf, was the crumb different across the slices?

Will

> _______________________________________________
> rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:35:47 +0800, James >
wrote:

>Hi folks,
>
>The last two loaves I've baked have been almost identical in that after
>I put them in the oven, one side has risen significantly higher than the
>other. So much so that on the "high" side the dough actually tore around
>the cut, while on the other it just opened up the slit. Both times it's
>been the same side which has done this, so it seems likely that the oven
>is hotter on one side than the other. My oven (electric) allows me to
>control whether the oven fan is on or off, so I'm wondering what people
>here do - do you bake with your oven fan on? So far I've always baked
>with it off (thinking it would dry the loaves out too much) but perhaps
>this is a way of more evenly distributing the heat.
Did you slash the loaves well ??
>
>Thanks,
>
>james

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:35:47 +0800, James >
wrote:

>Hi folks,
>
>The last two loaves I've baked have been almost identical in that after
>I put them in the oven, one side has risen significantly higher than the
>other. So much so that on the "high" side the dough actually tore around
>the cut, while on the other it just opened up the slit. Both times it's
>been the same side which has done this, so it seems likely that the oven
>is hotter on one side than the other. My oven (electric) allows me to
>control whether the oven fan is on or off, so I'm wondering what people
>here do - do you bake with your oven fan on? So far I've always baked
>with it off (thinking it would dry the loaves out too much) but perhaps
>this is a way of more evenly distributing the heat.
Did you slash the loaves well ??
>
>Thanks,
>
>james

"Wcsjohn" > wrote in message =
...

> Making a boule by tucking under should, indeed, produce a=20
> symmetrical loaf ...

Not if one tucks unsymmetrically.

--
DickA

P.S. Lopsidedness happens!

"Wcsjohn" > wrote in message =
...

> Making a boule by tucking under should, indeed, produce a=20
> symmetrical loaf ...

Not if one tucks unsymmetrically.

--
DickA

P.S. Lopsidedness happens!

Hi, James,
it helps if the dough does not stick to the baking stone / baking
sheet / tray when you put it in the oven. Sometimes when you invert it
onto the baking stone (for example) a wet spot of the dough will touch
the hot stone and adhere to it for a few moments hindering the rising
of the dough at that spot in the first minutes, causing the loaf to
tear or rise unevenly. You can use corn- or rice flour to prevent this
or bake the loaf on oiled trays.

Also, try spritzing the oven with water (the back and the sides) or
pour about half a cup of water into a hot pan at the bottom of the
oven before putting the loaves in. This will prevent the outside of
the dough to set too quickly. Spritz the oven about 2-3 times in the
first 7 minutes.

Regards and good luck,
Konny

Hi, James,
it helps if the dough does not stick to the baking stone / baking
sheet / tray when you put it in the oven. Sometimes when you invert it
onto the baking stone (for example) a wet spot of the dough will touch
the hot stone and adhere to it for a few moments hindering the rising
of the dough at that spot in the first minutes, causing the loaf to
tear or rise unevenly. You can use corn- or rice flour to prevent this
or bake the loaf on oiled trays.

Also, try spritzing the oven with water (the back and the sides) or
pour about half a cup of water into a hot pan at the bottom of the
oven before putting the loaves in. This will prevent the outside of
the dough to set too quickly. Spritz the oven about 2-3 times in the
first 7 minutes.

Regards and good luck,
Konny

>
>
>"Wcsjohn" > wrote in message =
...
>
>> Making a boule by tucking under should, indeed, produce a=20
>> symmetrical loaf ...
>
>Not if one tucks unsymmetrically.
>
>--
>DickA
>
>P.S. Lopsidedness happens!
>
>

I will admit that, when I read the OP the thought "So what"?" crossed my mind
but I sternly repressed such flippancy as detrimental to the Gemuetlichkeit of
the list.<g>

John

>
>
>"Wcsjohn" > wrote in message =
...
>
>> Making a boule by tucking under should, indeed, produce a=20
>> symmetrical loaf ...
>
>Not if one tucks unsymmetrically.
>
>--
>DickA
>
>P.S. Lopsidedness happens!
>
>

I will admit that, when I read the OP the thought "So what"?" crossed my mind
but I sternly repressed such flippancy as detrimental to the Gemuetlichkeit of
the list.<g>

John

Wcsjohn wrote:

> Try it with the fan on, I'd be interested to know the result.

The loaf was a lot more even, though due to a small handling disaster
requiring last-minute reshaping, it did not rise as much as the previous
one. The crust was certainly thicker and the loaf was not noticibly
drier. Since the oven is only a year old I still may get someone to take
a look at it to make sure there's nothing wrong with any of the
elements, but experimenting with the fan on also seems worthwhile.

james

Wcsjohn wrote:

> Try it with the fan on, I'd be interested to know the result.

The loaf was a lot more even, though due to a small handling disaster
requiring last-minute reshaping, it did not rise as much as the previous
one. The crust was certainly thicker and the loaf was not noticibly
drier. Since the oven is only a year old I still may get someone to take
a look at it to make sure there's nothing wrong with any of the
elements, but experimenting with the fan on also seems worthwhile.

james

>
>> Try it with the fan on, I'd be interested to know the result.
>
>The loaf was a lot more even, though due to a small handling disaster
>requiring last-minute reshaping, it did not rise as much as the previous
>one. The crust was certainly thicker and the loaf was not noticibly
>drier. Since the oven is only a year old I still may get someone to take
>a look at it to make sure there's nothing wrong with any of the
>elements, but experimenting with the fan on also seems worthwhile.
>
>james
>
If the fan evens out the temperature it will be a great bonus for baking large
batches.

Many fan ovens have more than one heat input. Often, the fan has about 1/3 of
the total heat input, the remainder from bottom and/or side heating elements.

When the fan is on an oven will, generally, maintain a more even temperature
throughout the oven, heat faster, recover faster and bake faster than the
temperature would suggest.

John

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:37:03 +0800, James wrote:

>> Try it with the fan on, I'd be interested to know the result.

Aren't you talking about a convection oven here? Isn't the fan
supposed to make the baking more even and faster by circulating the
air?

http://www.physicscentral.com/lou/lou-00-10.html

I would say they are under-proofed and by turning off the fan you
are subjugating the dough to the hot spots in a oven whose whole
purpose in life (read: the fan) is to not have any!!

Just about every new oven here seems to have a fan in it. The
differentiating factor between models seems to be the amount of control
you have over it. My oven has about 8 different settings, allowing you
to control the top and bottom elements separately and also whether the
fan is on.

The main reason I was experimenting with not using the fan was because
I'd heard stories about it drying out food. Since my original post, I
have had good success with using the fan+top+bottom elements for the
first ten minutes of the bake, then switching off the fan and just
using the top element. I was having trouble with the bottom of the
loaves burning, but switching off the bottom element and moving the
loaf up one shelf seems to have fixed this.

I still find that I'm getting quite a large amount of oven spring with
my sourdough loaves. Is this a sign that they are under proofed?

james

Just about every new oven here seems to have a fan in it. The
differentiating factor between models seems to be the amount of control
you have over it. My oven has about 8 different settings, allowing you
to control the top and bottom elements separately and also whether the
fan is on.

The main reason I was experimenting with not using the fan was because
I'd heard stories about it drying out food. Since my original post, I
have had good success with using the fan+top+bottom elements for the
first ten minutes of the bake, then switching off the fan and just
using the top element. I was having trouble with the bottom of the
loaves burning, but switching off the bottom element and moving the
loaf up one shelf seems to have fixed this.

I still find that I'm getting quite a large amount of oven spring with
my sourdough loaves. Is this a sign that they are under proofed?

james

"James" > wrote in message =
oups.com...

> I still find that I'm getting quite a large amount of oven spring with
> my sourdough loaves. Is this a sign that they are under proofed?

Yes, I'd say. Seems to be proof of underproofing.

One theory, mine, is that souring and flavor development goes better
if the dough completes most or all of its rise before the bake starts. =20
Personally, I would like to avoid the bakers' term <proof> altogether.

"Ashiote" > wrote in message =
om...

> Stop Bush NOW!=20

Yes, we do our best. Breadmaking in the domicile is a step towards
voiding our homes of Corporate America . Except for the ones who
schlep their 5-LB sacks of flour in SUVs.

> http://www.johnkerry.com/index

But is Kerry really the answer?

(Do you think that any of the candidates' women bakes, has ever=20
baked?)

(Actually, I'd bet on Laura, but on none of the girls.)

---
DickA

"James" > wrote in message =
oups.com...

> I still find that I'm getting quite a large amount of oven spring with
> my sourdough loaves. Is this a sign that they are under proofed?

Yes, I'd say. Seems to be proof of underproofing.

One theory, mine, is that souring and flavor development goes better
if the dough completes most or all of its rise before the bake starts. =20
Personally, I would like to avoid the bakers' term <proof> altogether.

"Ashiote" > wrote in message =
om...

> Stop Bush NOW!=20

Yes, we do our best. Breadmaking in the domicile is a step towards
voiding our homes of Corporate America . Except for the ones who
schlep their 5-LB sacks of flour in SUVs.

> http://www.johnkerry.com/index

But is Kerry really the answer?

(Do you think that any of the candidates' women bakes, has ever=20
baked?)

(Actually, I'd bet on Laura, but on none of the girls.)

---
DickA