Baking with my new starter for the first time
 

I posted a couple of month ago that my neglected starter seemed dead
when I took it from the fridge. I did manage to bring it back to life
for one loaf of bread (that didn't taste right and molded quickly) and
then it died for real. When I fed it, instead of bubbling it got a
thick slimy layer on top, and when I peeled that off it smelled like
"death". Seriously, it wasn't really strong of a smell but it was like
a rotting corpse. It took a couple of days to completely get the smell
off my hands.

Anyway, I threw that out and started a new batch using rye flour and
bottled water. It got foamy in a day or two, but that wasn't a real
start. Didn't smell right, and the bubbling went away after the first
feeding. But after a week of feeding it twice a day, alternating rye
flour and all-purpose, I think I have a real starter again. I cooked
some of the starter on a griddle and salted it, and it tasted pretty good.

So today I started a batch of bread. I think it's rising but not sure;
the loaf is rising *very* slowly. (The starter must not like salt.)
The remnant that I fed is bubbling away happily on the counter.

Bob

Baking with my new starter for the first time
 

zxcvbob wrote:
> I posted a couple of month ago that my neglected starter seemed dead
> when I took it from the fridge. I did manage to bring it back to life
> for one loaf of bread (that didn't taste right and molded quickly) and
> then it died for real. When I fed it, instead of bubbling it got a
> thick slimy layer on top, and when I peeled that off it smelled like
> "death". Seriously, it wasn't really strong of a smell but it was like
> a rotting corpse. It took a couple of days to completely get the smell
> off my hands.
>
> Anyway, I threw that out and started a new batch using rye flour and
> bottled water. It got foamy in a day or two, but that wasn't a real
> start. Didn't smell right, and the bubbling went away after the first
> feeding. But after a week of feeding it twice a day, alternating rye
> flour and all-purpose, I think I have a real starter again. I cooked
> some of the starter on a griddle and salted it, and it tasted pretty good.
>
> So today I started a batch of bread. I think it's rising but not sure;
> the loaf is rising *very* slowly. (The starter must not like salt.) The
> remnant that I fed is bubbling away happily on the counter.
>
> Bob


The loaf took 24 hours to rise and never reached full height. It also
didn't "spring" at all in the oven. It tasted and smelled wonderful. I
attributed the weak rise to just being a young starter.

I started another loaf last night. I used almost a cup of very active
starter to a pound of flour (and a cup of water and a tsp of salt), and
it is rising just as slowly as the previous batch. I'll bake it tonight
whether it's fully risen or not.

Any suggestions? What about taking a golf ball sized piece of dough to
keep it going instead of feeding the remnant of starter, so the culture
becomes salt tolerant? (I think you call that a "chef" instead of a
starter) I don't dare pinch a piece off of this batch because it'll
deflate.

Bob

Baking with my new starter for the first time
 

On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:34:24 -0600, zxcvbob > wrote:
.....
> I started another loaf last night. I used almost a cup of very active
> starter to a pound of flour (and a cup of water and a tsp of salt), and
> it is rising just as slowly as the previous batch. I'll bake it tonight
> whether it's fully risen or not.
>
> Any suggestions? What about taking a golf ball sized piece of dough to
> keep it going instead of feeding the remnant of starter, so the culture
> becomes salt tolerant? (I think you call that a "chef" instead of a
> starter) I don't dare pinch a piece off of this batch because it'll
> deflate.
>

How warm is your home? I find my starter more sensative to temps than
packaged east. It will double in 3 hours at 80 degF, 6 hours at 75 degF
and Way Too Long at 68 degF.

Baking with my new starter for the first time
 

ERSHC wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:34:24 -0600, zxcvbob > wrote:
> ....
>> I started another loaf last night. I used almost a cup of very active
>> starter to a pound of flour (and a cup of water and a tsp of salt), and
>> it is rising just as slowly as the previous batch. I'll bake it tonight
>> whether it's fully risen or not.
>>
>> Any suggestions? What about taking a golf ball sized piece of dough to
>> keep it going instead of feeding the remnant of starter, so the culture
>> becomes salt tolerant? (I think you call that a "chef" instead of a
>> starter) I don't dare pinch a piece off of this batch because it'll
>> deflate.
>>
>
> How warm is your home? I find my starter more sensative to temps than
> packaged east. It will double in 3 hours at 80 degF, 6 hours at 75 degF
> and Way Too Long at 68 degF.
>
>

House is pretty cool; even the kitchen. I put the dough in the oven
with the light on (I turned the burner on for about 1 minute first to
get it nice and warm) a few hours ago and it still hasn't done anything.

I feed the starter and within an hour or two it's foamy. I make dough
and store it at the same temperature and it just sits there. AFAIK,
salt is the only variable.

Bob

Baking with my new starter for the first time
 

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> ERSHC wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:34:24 -0600, zxcvbob > wrote:
>> ....
>>> I started another loaf last night. I used almost a cup of very active
>>> starter to a pound of flour (and a cup of water and a tsp of salt), and
>>> it is rising just as slowly as the previous batch. I'll bake it tonight
>>> whether it's fully risen or not.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions? What about taking a golf ball sized piece of dough to
>>> keep it going instead of feeding the remnant of starter, so the culture
>>> becomes salt tolerant? (I think you call that a "chef" instead of a
>>> starter) I don't dare pinch a piece off of this batch because it'll
>>> deflate.
>>>
>>
>> How warm is your home? I find my starter more sensative to temps than
>> packaged east. It will double in 3 hours at 80 degF, 6 hours at 75 degF
>> and Way Too Long at 68 degF.
>>
>>
>
> House is pretty cool; even the kitchen. I put the dough in the oven with
> the light on (I turned the burner on for about 1 minute first to get it
> nice and warm) a few hours ago and it still hasn't done anything.
>
> I feed the starter and within an hour or two it's foamy. I make dough and
> store it at the same temperature and it just sits there. AFAIK, salt is
> the only variable.
>
> Bob
>
Try the poolish method. Mix your starter with half the flour and all of the
water and leave overnight. The following morning add the salt and the rest
of the flour and go from there.
Graham

Baking with my new starter for the first time
 

graham wrote:
> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
> ...
>> ERSHC wrote:
>>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:34:24 -0600, zxcvbob > wrote:
>>> ....
>>>> I started another loaf last night. I used almost a cup of very active
>>>> starter to a pound of flour (and a cup of water and a tsp of salt), and
>>>> it is rising just as slowly as the previous batch. I'll bake it tonight
>>>> whether it's fully risen or not.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions? What about taking a golf ball sized piece of dough to
>>>> keep it going instead of feeding the remnant of starter, so the culture
>>>> becomes salt tolerant? (I think you call that a "chef" instead of a
>>>> starter) I don't dare pinch a piece off of this batch because it'll
>>>> deflate.
>>>>
>>> How warm is your home? I find my starter more sensative to temps than
>>> packaged east. It will double in 3 hours at 80 degF, 6 hours at 75 degF
>>> and Way Too Long at 68 degF.
>>>
>>>
>> House is pretty cool; even the kitchen. I put the dough in the oven with
>> the light on (I turned the burner on for about 1 minute first to get it
>> nice and warm) a few hours ago and it still hasn't done anything.
>>
>> I feed the starter and within an hour or two it's foamy. I make dough and
>> store it at the same temperature and it just sits there. AFAIK, salt is
>> the only variable.
>>
>> Bob
>>
> Try the poolish method. Mix your starter with half the flour and all of the
> water and leave overnight. The following morning add the salt and the rest
> of the flour and go from there.
> Graham
>


Great idea, but it didn't work. I tried that -- it wasn't overnight but
about 6 hours -- and it rose even less than dumping everything together
at the beginning. It tasted good though.

This starter is so much different from my old starter, which was created
from the same bag of rye flour! I think I need to add salt to the
starter; the dominant yeast seems to hate salt, but it's inhibiting any
other yeasts from taking over. Whatever lacto-bacteria is in there just
takes it all in stride.

Bob

Baking with my new starter for the first time
 

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> graham wrote:
>> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> ERSHC wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:34:24 -0600, zxcvbob >
>>>> wrote:
>>>> ....
>>>>> I started another loaf last night. I used almost a cup of very active
>>>>> starter to a pound of flour (and a cup of water and a tsp of salt),
>>>>> and it is rising just as slowly as the previous batch. I'll bake it
>>>>> tonight whether it's fully risen or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions? What about taking a golf ball sized piece of dough
>>>>> to keep it going instead of feeding the remnant of starter, so the
>>>>> culture becomes salt tolerant? (I think you call that a "chef"
>>>>> instead of a starter) I don't dare pinch a piece off of this batch
>>>>> because it'll deflate.
>>>>>
>>>> How warm is your home? I find my starter more sensative to temps than
>>>> packaged east. It will double in 3 hours at 80 degF, 6 hours at 75 degF
>>>> and Way Too Long at 68 degF.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> House is pretty cool; even the kitchen. I put the dough in the oven
>>> with the light on (I turned the burner on for about 1 minute first to
>>> get it nice and warm) a few hours ago and it still hasn't done anything.
>>>
>>> I feed the starter and within an hour or two it's foamy. I make dough
>>> and store it at the same temperature and it just sits there. AFAIK,
>>> salt is the only variable.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>> Try the poolish method. Mix your starter with half the flour and all of
>> the water and leave overnight. The following morning add the salt and the
>> rest of the flour and go from there.
>> Graham
>
>
> Great idea, but it didn't work. I tried that -- it wasn't overnight but
> about 6 hours -- and it rose even less than dumping everything together at
> the beginning. It tasted good though.
>
> This starter is so much different from my old starter, which was created
> from the same bag of rye flour! I think I need to add salt to the
> starter; the dominant yeast seems to hate salt, but it's inhibiting any
> other yeasts from taking over. Whatever lacto-bacteria is in there just
> takes it all in stride.

Don't salt it!!!!
I think that you just have to wait until it builds up strength after
multiple refreshments. So many baking books imply that you can make your
first loaf about 3 days after starting a culture and I think that is wrong
and gives many a false impression and they give up too soon.
Graham

Baking with my new starter for the first time
 

On Wed, 2 Jan 2013 14:24:42 -0700, "graham" > wrote:

>
>"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
>> graham wrote:
>>> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> ERSHC wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:34:24 -0600, zxcvbob >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> ....
>>>>>> I started another loaf last night. I used almost a cup of very active
>>>>>> starter to a pound of flour (and a cup of water and a tsp of salt),
>>>>>> and it is rising just as slowly as the previous batch. I'll bake it
>>>>>> tonight whether it's fully risen or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any suggestions? What about taking a golf ball sized piece of dough
>>>>>> to keep it going instead of feeding the remnant of starter, so the
>>>>>> culture becomes salt tolerant? (I think you call that a "chef"
>>>>>> instead of a starter) I don't dare pinch a piece off of this batch
>>>>>> because it'll deflate.
>>>>>>
>>>>> How warm is your home? I find my starter more sensative to temps than
>>>>> packaged east. It will double in 3 hours at 80 degF, 6 hours at 75 degF
>>>>> and Way Too Long at 68 degF.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> House is pretty cool; even the kitchen. I put the dough in the oven
>>>> with the light on (I turned the burner on for about 1 minute first to
>>>> get it nice and warm) a few hours ago and it still hasn't done anything.
>>>>
>>>> I feed the starter and within an hour or two it's foamy. I make dough
>>>> and store it at the same temperature and it just sits there. AFAIK,
>>>> salt is the only variable.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>> Try the poolish method. Mix your starter with half the flour and all of
>>> the water and leave overnight. The following morning add the salt and the
>>> rest of the flour and go from there.
>>> Graham
>>
>>
>> Great idea, but it didn't work. I tried that -- it wasn't overnight but
>> about 6 hours -- and it rose even less than dumping everything together at
>> the beginning. It tasted good though.
>>
>> This starter is so much different from my old starter, which was created
>> from the same bag of rye flour! I think I need to add salt to the
>> starter; the dominant yeast seems to hate salt, but it's inhibiting any
>> other yeasts from taking over. Whatever lacto-bacteria is in there just
>> takes it all in stride.
>
>Don't salt it!!!!

Correct!


>I think that you just have to wait until it builds up strength after
>multiple refreshments. So many baking books imply that you can make your
>first loaf about 3 days after starting a culture and I think that is wrong
>and gives many a false impression and they give up too soon.
>Graham
>

And correct again. I think it takes about 2 weeks of decent
refreshments to get to the baking stage.

And if his new starter is from the same bag of rye than the old,
perhaps the flour is just old. Rye can go off more easily than AP.

Boron