Per recipe; used dishtowel lined colander for proof (6hrs @room temp, just
below 70).
Not a huge amount of oven spring, as evidenced by the timid slashes not
expanding a lot, but I'm pretty happy. No pix of crumb, since this was
taken a couple of minutes out of the oven and brushing rice flour off that
I used to cover the dishtowel to prevent sticking. Which worked just fine.

They're in an unlisted folder on a branch web page, since Earthlink has a
10 meg limit per address, but allows 8 addresses:

http://home.earthlink.net/~garygarlicweb2/private/

The main page, unspeakably boring, is in my .sig. Don't say I didn't warn
you...


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

In message ...
"Gary Woods" > presented:
=20
> =
http://home.earthlink.net/~garygarli...lainecomp.jpg=


Impressive, but probably too big for throwing at dogs.

Mine, shown below, are a better size:

http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...e/4cooling.jpg

Now I am working on a boomerang loaf. You get a
second shot.

: )

--
DickA

"Dick Adams" > wrote:

>http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...e/4cooling.jpg

Very pretty, but I don't love my dog enough to fling something that pretty
at her.
>
>Now I am working on a boomerang loaf. You get a
>second shot.

Now _that_ is worthwhile.... I usually need a second (and third, and...)
shot at most things before I get them right. That's not always a bad
thing.

For the three people checking them, I've added a crumb view at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~garygarlicweb2/private/

Not bad, even if the auto focus seems to have picked the background rather
than the loaf. The bottom looks a little under done; perhaps baking on a
pre-heated tile will help that on the next iteration. I'm taking this
loaf, along with some roast garlic spread, to a solstice party this
evening. Fiendishly clever way to use it up so I can make more, eh?

I'm stopping by a cook's supply shoppe this afternoon to look for a baking
tile/stone and perhaps a peel. It's a fun place, even given the strong eau
de yuppie that permeates it. Maybe we need a sub-group- "redneck bakers?"

Peace,


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

On 12/21/04 8:59 AM, "Gary Woods" > wrote:

> > I'm stopping by a cook's supply shoppe this afternoon to look for a baking
> tile/stone and perhaps a peel. It's a fun place, even given the strong eau
> de yuppie that permeates it. Maybe we need a sub-group- "redneck bakers?"
>

Arrgh! Don't do it. They will try to sell you sourdough enhancer powder or a
ventilated mini ficelle thingy.

Peel? Whatever for? Your old cookie sheet needs a new life.

Buy Dan Wing's or Jeffrey Hamelman's books instead.

Will (Sourdough minimalist for one posting only)

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 14:59:50 GMT, Gary Woods
> wrote:

>I'm stopping by a cook's supply shoppe this afternoon to look for a baking
>tile/stone and perhaps a peel.

Hi Gary,

Allow me to suggest an alternative:

Rather than getting a "stone" from a cooking supplier go to
a supplier of architectural stone.

They will sell you a scrap that is likely to be far better
(and less costly.)

Remember that the virtue of a baking stone is in its mass.
The longer it takes to heat up, the more heat it will have
to convey to the bread.

For years, I had a piece of soap stone that rested in the
bottom of my oven. It was about 2" thick, weighed nearly 100
pounds, and worked wonderfully for my baking (though
admittedly, it was a bear to remove <g>.) I used to measure
its temperature with a contact thermometer of the sort used
for fireplace chimneys. Another virtue of the very heavy
stone is that it allowed me to bake at temperatures far
higher than the nominal maximum of my oven.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
....
> Another virtue of the very heavy
> stone is that it allowed me to bake at temperatures far
> higher than the nominal maximum of my oven.

What would be the virtue of that feature, Kenneth?


Dusty
--
Remove STORE to reply
>
> All the best,
>
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

> wrote:
>I'm stopping by a cook's supply shoppe this afternoon to look for a baking
>tile/stone and perhaps a peel.
>Gary,

Or you could look on eBay for a pizza stone and peel.
That's where I got mine, very reasonable.
Ernie

> wrote:
>I'm stopping by a cook's supply shoppe this afternoon to look for a baking
>tile/stone and perhaps a peel.
>Gary,

Or you could look on eBay for a pizza stone and peel.
That's where I got mine, very reasonable.
Ernie

"Gary Woods" > wrote in message
...
> "Dick Adams" > wrote:
>
Maybe we need a sub-group- "redneck bakers?"
>
No! Please don't even think of it! We had a bit of a battle with one
earlier this year before he went back to his Texas barbecue.
Graham

"Gary Woods" > wrote in message
...
> "Dick Adams" > wrote:
>
Maybe we need a sub-group- "redneck bakers?"
>
No! Please don't even think of it! We had a bit of a battle with one
earlier this year before he went back to his Texas barbecue.
Graham

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:57:44 -0800, "Dusty"
> wrote:

>"Kenneth" > wrote in message
.. .
>...
>> Another virtue of the very heavy
>> stone is that it allowed me to bake at temperatures far
>> higher than the nominal maximum of my oven.
>
>What would be the virtue of that feature, Kenneth?
>
>
>Dusty

Hi Dusty,

Well, things like pizza are best baked at temperatures far
higher than the 500F (IIRC) that my oven provided without
the stone...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:57:44 -0800, "Dusty"
> wrote:

>"Kenneth" > wrote in message
.. .
>...
>> Another virtue of the very heavy
>> stone is that it allowed me to bake at temperatures far
>> higher than the nominal maximum of my oven.
>
>What would be the virtue of that feature, Kenneth?
>
>
>Dusty

Hi Dusty,

Well, things like pizza are best baked at temperatures far
higher than the 500F (IIRC) that my oven provided without
the stone...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On 12/21/04 2:39 PM, "danube" > wrote:

>
>
>> For years, I had a piece of soap stone that rested in the bottom of my
>> oven. It was about 2" thick, weighed nearly 100 pounds, and worked
>> wonderfully for my baking (though admittedly, it was a bear to remove
>> <g>.) I used to measure its temperature with a contact thermometer of the
>> sort used for fireplace chimneys. Another virtue of the very heavy stone
>> is that it allowed me to bake at temperatures far higher than the nominal
>> maximum of my oven.
>>
> How can this be achieved, a stone in an oven at a temperature higher than
> the oven temperature?
>
> JB

JB,

The oven burner might be 20,000 BTU's. What you commit those BTU's to makes
a big difference. A thin piece of porcelain covered steel surrounded by
refractory glass fiber (your typical oven) is not the same as a big hunk of
stone. At 500 degrees or so, most basic kitchen ovens are at, or over, their
threshold of efficient storage. And so that becomes their ceiling.

The wood fired ovens get to 700-800 degrees, not because the wood fire is
hotter, but because the thermal capacity of the oven brick is higher, you
can store more BTU's in it.

Kenneth altered the capacity of his oven to retain heat by adding the stone.

You can do it to, but I would not recommend soapstone. It has a very slow
acquisition and release "curve", Which makes it great for a woodstove but
not so great for baking, unless you have extended baking sessions (which I
suspect Kenneth used).

Look into refractory cement stones:

http://www.bakingstone.com/

They will have the better acquisition/release characteristics i.e.: less
time to preheat, with retention corresponding to a more typical bake
session, say 25 to 40 minutes.

Will


> _______________________________________________
> rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:39:49 +0100, danube
> wrote:

>
>
>> For years, I had a piece of soap stone that rested in the bottom of my
>> oven. It was about 2" thick, weighed nearly 100 pounds, and worked
>> wonderfully for my baking (though admittedly, it was a bear to remove
>> <g>.) I used to measure its temperature with a contact thermometer of the
>> sort used for fireplace chimneys. Another virtue of the very heavy stone
>> is that it allowed me to bake at temperatures far higher than the nominal
>> maximum of my oven.
>>
>How can this be achieved, a stone in an oven at a temperature higher than
>the oven temperature?
>
>JB

Howdy,

Will has explained it, but I will say a bit more...

Suppose you set your oven (with the stone) at 500ºF, or
whatever its maximum available setting might be.

An oven is essentially a heated box of air.

The oven has a thermostat that measures the temperature of
the air inside that box as it heats. When the air reaches
500º, the oven turns itself "off" and, of course, the air
starts to cool. When the air cools to some pre-set
temperature (let's say 490º) the heat comes on again. It
will continue to cycle on and off in this fashion keeping
the air temperature at about 500º.

But, the air cools off rather rapidly as compared with the
massive stone. So, then the air cools to the temperature of
490º and kicks the heat on again, the stone may have cooled
only slightly, say to 495º. When the heat comes on the stone
takes in some more heat energy, as does the air, but, as
before, the air cools more quickly than does the stone and
thus the stone keeps taking on heat, eventually becoming
much hotter than the maximum setting of the oven.

The whole concept relies on the fact that the thermostat
measures the temperature of the air, rather than measuring
the temperature of the stone.

I hope that this clarifies a bit,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote in message =
...
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . When the heat comes on the stone
> takes in some more heat energy, as does the air, but, as
> before, the air cools more quickly than does the stone and
> thus the stone keeps taking on heat, eventually becoming
> much hotter than the maximum setting of the oven.
> The whole concept relies on the fact that the thermostat
> measures the temperature of the air, rather than measuring
> the temperature of the stone.

Well, you know, all of that must seem quite elementary to=20
anyone who understands how the warp drive works.

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:39:49 +0100, danube wrote:

>
>
>> For years, I had a piece of soap stone that rested in the bottom of my
>> oven. It was about 2" thick, weighed nearly 100 pounds, and worked
>> wonderfully for my baking (though admittedly, it was a bear to remove
>> <g>.) I used to measure its temperature with a contact thermometer of the
>> sort used for fireplace chimneys. Another virtue of the very heavy stone
>> is that it allowed me to bake at temperatures far higher than the nominal
>> maximum of my oven.
>>
> How can this be achieved, a stone in an oven at a temperature higher than
> the oven temperature?
>
> JB

It is possible, I think, especially if the oven has exposed electric
heating elements or an infrared broiler element. The stone will be heated
up by the infrared, not just by the hot air in the oven.

But I believe that without the infrared transfer of heat, the stone can't
get hotter than the air. Heat just doesn't like to flow from cold things
to hot things. ;-)

Oh, I can think of another possible explanation. If the oven's heating
element is UNDER the stone, then the stone will have to get very hot
before the air gets hot enough to cause the thermostat to shut off.

Just my $0.02

--Mac

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:39:49 +0100, danube wrote:

>
>
>> For years, I had a piece of soap stone that rested in the bottom of my
>> oven. It was about 2" thick, weighed nearly 100 pounds, and worked
>> wonderfully for my baking (though admittedly, it was a bear to remove
>> <g>.) I used to measure its temperature with a contact thermometer of the
>> sort used for fireplace chimneys. Another virtue of the very heavy stone
>> is that it allowed me to bake at temperatures far higher than the nominal
>> maximum of my oven.
>>
> How can this be achieved, a stone in an oven at a temperature higher than
> the oven temperature?
>
> JB

It is possible, I think, especially if the oven has exposed electric
heating elements or an infrared broiler element. The stone will be heated
up by the infrared, not just by the hot air in the oven.

But I believe that without the infrared transfer of heat, the stone can't
get hotter than the air. Heat just doesn't like to flow from cold things
to hot things. ;-)

Oh, I can think of another possible explanation. If the oven's heating
element is UNDER the stone, then the stone will have to get very hot
before the air gets hot enough to cause the thermostat to shut off.

Just my $0.02

--Mac

Excellent explanation, Kenneth.


"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>How can this be achieved, a stone in an oven at a temperature higher than
>>the oven temperature?
>>
>>JB
>
> Howdy,
>
> Will has explained it, but I will say a bit more...
>
> Suppose you set your oven (with the stone) at 500ºF, or
> whatever its maximum available setting might be.
>
> An oven is essentially a heated box of air.
>
> The oven has a thermostat that measures the temperature of
> the air inside that box as it heats. When the air reaches
> 500º, the oven turns itself "off" and, of course, the air
> starts to cool. When the air cools to some pre-set
> temperature (let's say 490º) the heat comes on again. It
> will continue to cycle on and off in this fashion keeping
> the air temperature at about 500º.
>
> But, the air cools off rather rapidly as compared with the
> massive stone. So, then the air cools to the temperature of
> 490º and kicks the heat on again, the stone may have cooled
> only slightly, say to 495º. When the heat comes on the stone
> takes in some more heat energy, as does the air, but, as
> before, the air cools more quickly than does the stone and
> thus the stone keeps taking on heat, eventually becoming
> much hotter than the maximum setting of the oven.
>
> The whole concept relies on the fact that the thermostat
> measures the temperature of the air, rather than measuring
> the temperature of the stone.
>
> I hope that this clarifies a bit,

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:52:36 GMT, Mac > wrote:

>Oh, I can think of another possible explanation. If the oven's heating
>element is UNDER the stone, then the stone will have to get very hot
>before the air gets hot enough to cause the thermostat to shut off.
>
>Just my $0.02
>
>--Mac

Hi Mac,

Just curious...

Why would the relative location of the heat source matter as
you describe above?

It seems to me that exactly the same thing would happen were
the heat source above the stone, but I certainly might be
wrong.

Thanks,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

That doesn't sound right to me. If that were true I could melt gold in my
oven by putting a large stone in it and setting it to 500 degrees. The idea
of the stone is to store heat before you put the loaf in and let that heat
transfer to the bread.
Ernie

> "Kenneth" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>How can this be achieved, a stone in an oven at a temperature higher
than
> >>the oven temperature?
> >>
> >>JB
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > Will has explained it, but I will say a bit more...
> >
> > Suppose you set your oven (with the stone) at 500ºF, or
> > whatever its maximum available setting might be.
> >
> > An oven is essentially a heated box of air.
> >
> > The oven has a thermostat that measures the temperature of
> > the air inside that box as it heats. When the air reaches
> > 500º, the oven turns itself "off" and, of course, the air
> > starts to cool. When the air cools to some pre-set
> > temperature (let's say 490º) the heat comes on again. It
> > will continue to cycle on and off in this fashion keeping
> > the air temperature at about 500º.
> >
> > But, the air cools off rather rapidly as compared with the
> > massive stone. So, then the air cools to the temperature of
> > 490º and kicks the heat on again, the stone may have cooled
> > only slightly, say to 495º. When the heat comes on the stone
> > takes in some more heat energy, as does the air, but, as
> > before, the air cools more quickly than does the stone and
> > thus the stone keeps taking on heat, eventually becoming
> > much hotter than the maximum setting of the oven.
> >
> > The whole concept relies on the fact that the thermostat
> > measures the temperature of the air, rather than measuring
> > the temperature of the stone.
> >
> > I hope that this clarifies a bit,
>
>

On 12/22/04 10:58 AM, "Ernie" > wrote:

> That doesn't sound right to me. If that were true I could melt gold in my
> oven by putting a large stone in it and setting it to 500 degrees. The idea
> of the stone is to store heat before you put the loaf in and let that heat
> transfer to the bread.
> Ernie
>
I think to melt gold you might need more than a 20,000 BTU burner...
(Unless you agree that because kites fly you could book one to England.)

Just kidding...

Will

"Will" > wrote in message
news:mailman.30.1103740591.221.rec.food.sourdough@ mail.otherwhen.com...
> On 12/22/04 10:58 AM, "Ernie" > wrote:
>
> > That doesn't sound right to me. If that were true I could melt gold in
my
> > oven by putting a large stone in it and setting it to 500 degrees. The
idea
> > of the stone is to store heat before you put the loaf in and let that
heat
> > transfer to the bread.
> > Ernie
> >
> I think to melt gold you might need more than a 20,000 BTU burner...
> (Unless you agree that because kites fly you could book one to England.)
> Just kidding...
> Will

Will,
Why not try a little experiment? Put your stone in the oven and turn the
oven on. Take two oven thermometers and hang one on the rack and
put the other one on the stone. See what happens.
Ernie

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:51:50 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>Will,
> Why not try a little experiment? Put your stone in the oven and turn the
>oven on. Take two oven thermometers and hang one on the rack and
>put the other one on the stone. See what happens.
>Ernie
>

Hi Ernie,

That is precisely what I did for over fifteen years...

The stone got much hotter than the air.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:51:50 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>Will,
> Why not try a little experiment? Put your stone in the oven and turn the
>oven on. Take two oven thermometers and hang one on the rack and
>put the other one on the stone. See what happens.
>Ernie
>

Hi Ernie,

That is precisely what I did for over fifteen years...

The stone got much hotter than the air.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On 12/22/04 2:17 PM, "Kenneth" > wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:51:50 GMT, "Ernie"
> > wrote:
>
>> Will,
>> Why not try a little experiment? Put your stone in the oven and turn the
>> oven on. Take two oven thermometers and hang one on the rack and
>> put the other one on the stone. See what happens.
>> Ernie
>>
>
> Hi Ernie,
>
> That is precisely what I did for over fifteen years...
>
> The stone got much hotter than the air.
>
> All the best,


Ernie,

Google for "specific heat", then compare stone and air indices to see why
this is so.

Will

On 12/22/04 2:17 PM, "Kenneth" > wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:51:50 GMT, "Ernie"
> > wrote:
>
>> Will,
>> Why not try a little experiment? Put your stone in the oven and turn the
>> oven on. Take two oven thermometers and hang one on the rack and
>> put the other one on the stone. See what happens.
>> Ernie
>>
>
> Hi Ernie,
>
> That is precisely what I did for over fifteen years...
>
> The stone got much hotter than the air.
>
> All the best,


Ernie,

Google for "specific heat", then compare stone and air indices to see why
this is so.

Will

"Kenneth" > wrote > Hi Ernie,
what I did for over fifteen years...
got much hotter than the air.
> All the best,
> Kenneth

Interesting,
How much difference do the thermometers read?
Is the stone hotter than the air without any heat being applied?
Ernie

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:37:04 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" > wrote > Hi Ernie,
>what I did for over fifteen years...
>got much hotter than the air.
>> All the best,
>> Kenneth
>
>Interesting,
>How much difference do the thermometers read?
>Is the stone hotter than the air without any heat being applied?
>Ernie
>

Hi Ernie,

I have described my understanding of the process in some
detail. If you have questions about what I described, please
ask.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote > >Interesting,
> Hi Ernie,
> I have described my understanding of the process in some
> detail. If you have questions about what I described, please
> ask.

Ok Kenneth when you had the oven set at 500 degrees
How hot did the stone get?
Ernie

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 01:12:36 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" > wrote > >Interesting,
>> Hi Ernie,
>> I have described my understanding of the process in some
>> detail. If you have questions about what I described, please
>> ask.
>
>Ok Kenneth when you had the oven set at 500 degrees
>How hot did the stone get?
>Ernie
>

Hi Ernie,

After about 90 minutes, the stone would get to 625F. I don't
recall measuring the temperature of the stone long after
that point.

Also, consider this:

Suppose you had a bucket of water set outside on a warm
summer day. Eventually, the water in the bucket heated to,
say, 90ºF, then the evening comes, and cool breezes start to
blow.

After a few minutes, you get out your thermometer and
discover that the air temperature has dropped to 60ºF.

You then dip the thermometer into the water.

Surely you know that the water will not be as cool as the
air. In fact, in those few minutes, it might not be
significantly cooler than 90º.

And that is why the stone trick works.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 01:12:36 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" > wrote > >Interesting,
>> Hi Ernie,
>> I have described my understanding of the process in some
>> detail. If you have questions about what I described, please
>> ask.
>
>Ok Kenneth when you had the oven set at 500 degrees
>How hot did the stone get?
>Ernie
>

Hi Ernie,

After about 90 minutes, the stone would get to 625F. I don't
recall measuring the temperature of the stone long after
that point.

Also, consider this:

Suppose you had a bucket of water set outside on a warm
summer day. Eventually, the water in the bucket heated to,
say, 90ºF, then the evening comes, and cool breezes start to
blow.

After a few minutes, you get out your thermometer and
discover that the air temperature has dropped to 60ºF.

You then dip the thermometer into the water.

Surely you know that the water will not be as cool as the
air. In fact, in those few minutes, it might not be
significantly cooler than 90º.

And that is why the stone trick works.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:27:36 -0500, Kenneth wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:52:36 GMT, Mac > wrote:
>
>>Oh, I can think of another possible explanation. If the oven's heating
>>element is UNDER the stone, then the stone will have to get very hot
>>before the air gets hot enough to cause the thermostat to shut off.
>>
>>Just my $0.02
>>
>>--Mac
>
> Hi Mac,
>
> Just curious...
>
> Why would the relative location of the heat source matter as
> you describe above?
>
> It seems to me that exactly the same thing would happen were
> the heat source above the stone, but I certainly might be
> wrong.
>
> Thanks,

Oh, yes, I think you are right. The key thing is that if the stone is
between the heating element and the place where the thermostat sensor
resides, then the stone will probably get very hot indeed!

I said "under" above, because I was only considering the case where the
heating element is under the main oven chamber, and the stone is sitting
directly on the bottom of the oven, occupying most of the space there.

If the heating element is on the top of the oven, you would have to place
the stone on the ceiling of the oven for the element to be over the stone.
And this doesn't seem very practical.

--Mac

Of course I understand now, we are talking
about radiant heat.
It isn't the air in the oven that is heating the
stone it is the radient heat from the heat source
that is heating the stone.
Ernie

Of course I understand now, we are talking
about radiant heat.
It isn't the air in the oven that is heating the
stone it is the radient heat from the heat source
that is heating the stone.
Ernie

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:49:29 GMT, Mac > wrote:

>On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:27:36 -0500, Kenneth wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:52:36 GMT, Mac > wrote:
>>
>>>Oh, I can think of another possible explanation. If the oven's heating
>>>element is UNDER the stone, then the stone will have to get very hot
>>>before the air gets hot enough to cause the thermostat to shut off.
>>>
>>>Just my $0.02
>>>
>>>--Mac
>>
>> Hi Mac,
>>
>> Just curious...
>>
>> Why would the relative location of the heat source matter as
>> you describe above?
>>
>> It seems to me that exactly the same thing would happen were
>> the heat source above the stone, but I certainly might be
>> wrong.
>>
>> Thanks,
>
>Oh, yes, I think you are right. The key thing is that if the stone is
>between the heating element and the place where the thermostat sensor
>resides, then the stone will probably get very hot indeed!
>
>I said "under" above, because I was only considering the case where the
>heating element is under the main oven chamber, and the stone is sitting
>directly on the bottom of the oven, occupying most of the space there.
>
>If the heating element is on the top of the oven, you would have to place
>the stone on the ceiling of the oven for the element to be over the stone.
>And this doesn't seem very practical.
>
>--Mac

Hi Mac,

I see no relationship between the results, and the relative
locations of the components...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:49:29 GMT, Mac > wrote:

>On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:27:36 -0500, Kenneth wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:52:36 GMT, Mac > wrote:
>>
>>>Oh, I can think of another possible explanation. If the oven's heating
>>>element is UNDER the stone, then the stone will have to get very hot
>>>before the air gets hot enough to cause the thermostat to shut off.
>>>
>>>Just my $0.02
>>>
>>>--Mac
>>
>> Hi Mac,
>>
>> Just curious...
>>
>> Why would the relative location of the heat source matter as
>> you describe above?
>>
>> It seems to me that exactly the same thing would happen were
>> the heat source above the stone, but I certainly might be
>> wrong.
>>
>> Thanks,
>
>Oh, yes, I think you are right. The key thing is that if the stone is
>between the heating element and the place where the thermostat sensor
>resides, then the stone will probably get very hot indeed!
>
>I said "under" above, because I was only considering the case where the
>heating element is under the main oven chamber, and the stone is sitting
>directly on the bottom of the oven, occupying most of the space there.
>
>If the heating element is on the top of the oven, you would have to place
>the stone on the ceiling of the oven for the element to be over the stone.
>And this doesn't seem very practical.
>
>--Mac

Hi Mac,

I see no relationship between the results, and the relative
locations of the components...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Mac" > wrote in message=20
news
> Oh, yes, I think (Kenneth is) right. The key thing is that if the =
stone is
> between the heating element and the place where the thermostat sensor
> resides, then the stone will probably get very hot indeed!

So then, how well do you suppose the thermostat would work?

Maybe there is some student of 9th grade science who could help us here?

"Mac" > wrote in message=20
news
> Oh, yes, I think (Kenneth is) right. The key thing is that if the =
stone is
> between the heating element and the place where the thermostat sensor
> resides, then the stone will probably get very hot indeed!

So then, how well do you suppose the thermostat would work?

Maybe there is some student of 9th grade science who could help us here?

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:08:50 +0000, Dick Adams wrote:

>
> "Mac" > wrote in message
> news >
>> Oh, yes, I think (Kenneth is) right. The key thing is that if the stone is
>> between the heating element and the place where the thermostat sensor
>> resides, then the stone will probably get very hot indeed!
>
> So then, how well do you suppose the thermostat would work?
>

Not very well. It would keep the oven on until the main oven chamber heats
up to the set temperature. Some parts of the oven might even get hotter
than they were designed for. But this would only happen, I think, if the
stone were placed so that the heat from the element would have to pass
through the stone to get to the main oven chamber. Even though I put this
idea out there, I don't really believe it.

> Maybe there is some student of 9th grade science who could help us here?

Well, I think the most likely explanation for the reported phenomenon
is (as both Ernie and I have postulated) that the IR radiation from the
heating element (if it is exposed) or oven roof or floor (wherever the
heating element is) heats the stone up above the average oven air
temperature. This is perfectly consistent with my (perhaps limited)
understanding of thermodynamics.

The thing about the stone being on top of the heating element and
basically blocking the heat from entering the oven was just something I
threw in at the last second before hitting "post." I don't really believe
it myself anymore. ;-)

--Mac

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:08:50 +0000, Dick Adams wrote:

>
> "Mac" > wrote in message
> news >
>> Oh, yes, I think (Kenneth is) right. The key thing is that if the stone is
>> between the heating element and the place where the thermostat sensor
>> resides, then the stone will probably get very hot indeed!
>
> So then, how well do you suppose the thermostat would work?
>

Not very well. It would keep the oven on until the main oven chamber heats
up to the set temperature. Some parts of the oven might even get hotter
than they were designed for. But this would only happen, I think, if the
stone were placed so that the heat from the element would have to pass
through the stone to get to the main oven chamber. Even though I put this
idea out there, I don't really believe it.

> Maybe there is some student of 9th grade science who could help us here?

Well, I think the most likely explanation for the reported phenomenon
is (as both Ernie and I have postulated) that the IR radiation from the
heating element (if it is exposed) or oven roof or floor (wherever the
heating element is) heats the stone up above the average oven air
temperature. This is perfectly consistent with my (perhaps limited)
understanding of thermodynamics.

The thing about the stone being on top of the heating element and
basically blocking the heat from entering the oven was just something I
threw in at the last second before hitting "post." I don't really believe
it myself anymore. ;-)

--Mac