i'm struggling with how to make good flatbread, for tortillas for
example. How does one make a very flat bread that doesn't dry out and
turn into a cracker within an hour of baking?

"dougcullen" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> i'm struggling with how to make good flatbread, for tortillas for
> example. How does one make a very flat bread that doesn't dry out and
> turn into a cracker within an hour of baking?
>

I don't know doug but I got a tortilla press for Xmas, so am about to find
out.
Ernie

"dougcullen" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> i'm struggling with how to make good flatbread, for tortillas for
> example. How does one make a very flat bread that doesn't dry out and
> turn into a cracker within an hour of baking?
>

I don't know doug but I got a tortilla press for Xmas, so am about to find
out.
Ernie

In article .com>,
"dougcullen" > wrote:

> i'm struggling with how to make good flatbread, for tortillas for
> example. How does one make a very flat bread that doesn't dry out and
> turn into a cracker within an hour of baking?
>

Are you wanting to make tortillas or just a bread that is flat like a
tortilla? Tortillas are cooked in a skillet not in the oven. Perhaps
that is part of the problem? Also, when making tortillas, as each
cooks, I put it in a folded, clean dishtowel. When I am finished the
stack of tortillas is nice and steamy and warm. Perhaps the steam from
being stacked in a towel helps to keep them soft too.

marcella

"Marcella Tracy Peek" > wrote in message
...
> In article .com>,
> "dougcullen" > wrote:
>
>> i'm struggling with how to make good flatbread, for tortillas for
>> example. How does one make a very flat bread that doesn't dry out and
>> turn into a cracker within an hour of baking?
>>
>
> Are you wanting to make tortillas or just a bread that is flat like a
> tortilla? Tortillas are cooked in a skillet not in the oven. Perhaps
> that is part of the problem? Also, when making tortillas, as each
> cooks, I put it in a folded, clean dishtowel. When I am finished the
> stack of tortillas is nice and steamy and warm. Perhaps the steam from
> being stacked in a towel helps to keep them soft too.
>
> marcella
There's one other issue, Marcella. A tortilla is an unleavened flat bread,
but it's not a flatbread like pita, most Persian breads, za'atar, na'an and
such, are usually leavened.

While I love both, I'm probably more a za'atar or na'an fan...


Dusty
San Jose, Ca.
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"Marcella Tracy Peek" > wrote in message
...
> In article .com>,
> "dougcullen" > wrote:
>
>> i'm struggling with how to make good flatbread, for tortillas for
>> example. How does one make a very flat bread that doesn't dry out and
>> turn into a cracker within an hour of baking?
>>
>
> Are you wanting to make tortillas or just a bread that is flat like a
> tortilla? Tortillas are cooked in a skillet not in the oven. Perhaps
> that is part of the problem? Also, when making tortillas, as each
> cooks, I put it in a folded, clean dishtowel. When I am finished the
> stack of tortillas is nice and steamy and warm. Perhaps the steam from
> being stacked in a towel helps to keep them soft too.
>
> marcella
There's one other issue, Marcella. A tortilla is an unleavened flat bread,
but it's not a flatbread like pita, most Persian breads, za'atar, na'an and
such, are usually leavened.

While I love both, I'm probably more a za'atar or na'an fan...


Dusty
San Jose, Ca.
--
Remove STORE to reply

dougcullen > wrote:
> i'm struggling with how to make good flatbread, for tortillas for
> example. How does one make a very flat bread that doesn't dry out and
> turn into a cracker within an hour of baking?

Flour tortillas:

4 cups white flour
1 cup cold water
1/4 cup lard

Mix all ingredients, roll into a tight ball and let rest for an hour in
either a small airtight container or plastic wrap.

Pull off a piece about the size of a ping pong ball, roll out with a
rolling pin to be 1/8" thick, or less. Cook until a bit puffy and with
browned (or even slightly blackened) spots, about a minute, each side.

As each comes off of the skillet or comal, place into a folded towel or
a "tortilla keeper" until use.

Cook just before they're needed for the best flavor/texture, but
they'll keep for at least a few days in an airtight container -- let
them cool before storing.

--
Art Sackett,
Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication

Dusty wrote:

> There's one other issue, Marcella. A tortilla is an unleavened flat bread,
> but it's not a flatbread like pita, most Persian breads, za'atar, na'an and
> such, are usually leavened.
>
> While I love both, I'm probably more a za'atar or na'an fan...

Za'atar, AFAIK, isn't a bread. It's a herb. The biblical hyssop, a
type of wild marjoram. It also refers to an herb/spice mix, za'atar and
a mix of various things; including sumac. a rather bitter-tart
lemon-like spice and sesame seeds. One use of za'atar is to mix it into
olive oil to make a dip for flat breads such as pita or taboun.

B/

Right you are, Brian. I simplistically copied the name off of a list of my
"bread" recipes that I had, and left it there without thinking.

Za'atar, is indeed a spice related to the sumac plant. The flat bread
recipe I had, incorporated it, and took it's name from that. I stand
corrected.

Thanks for keeping me on the straight & narrow...(:-o)! And thanks for that
great starter you sent me...


Dusty
San Jose, Ca.
--
Remove STORE to reply
"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
> Dusty wrote:
>
>> There's one other issue, Marcella. A tortilla is an unleavened flat
>> bread, but it's not a flatbread like pita, most Persian breads, za'atar,
>> na'an and such, are usually leavened.
>>
>> While I love both, I'm probably more a za'atar or na'an fan...
>
> Za'atar, AFAIK, isn't a bread. It's a herb. The biblical hyssop, a type
> of wild marjoram. It also refers to an herb/spice mix, za'atar and a mix
> of various things; including sumac. a rather bitter-tart lemon-like spice
> and sesame seeds. One use of za'atar is to mix it into olive oil to make
> a dip for flat breads such as pita or taboun.
>
> B/

Dusty wrote:

> Right you are, Brian. I simplistically copied the name off of a list of my
> "bread" recipes that I had, and left it there without thinking.
>
> Za'atar, is indeed a spice related to the sumac plant.

Still not there yet. Za'atar itself is a type of wild marjoram, aka
hyssop. The za'atar mix *includes* sumac berries which have been ground
and dried. Sumac is a rhus species--we've got some in the US, the
midwestern folk make a tea/tisane from it--and not related at all to
za'atar.

> Thanks for keeping me on the straight & narrow...(:-o)! And thanks for that
> great starter you sent me...

Glad it's working out!

B/

Dusty wrote:

> Right you are, Brian. I simplistically copied the name off of a list of my
> "bread" recipes that I had, and left it there without thinking.
>
> Za'atar, is indeed a spice related to the sumac plant.

Still not there yet. Za'atar itself is a type of wild marjoram, aka
hyssop. The za'atar mix *includes* sumac berries which have been ground
and dried. Sumac is a rhus species--we've got some in the US, the
midwestern folk make a tea/tisane from it--and not related at all to
za'atar.

> Thanks for keeping me on the straight & narrow...(:-o)! And thanks for that
> great starter you sent me...

Glad it's working out!

B/

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
> Dusty wrote:
>
>> Right you are, Brian. I simplistically copied the name off of a list of
>> my "bread" recipes that I had, and left it there without thinking.
>>
>> Za'atar, is indeed a spice related to the sumac plant.
>
> Still not there yet. Za'atar itself is a type of wild marjoram, aka
> hyssop. The za'atar mix *includes* sumac berries which have been ground
> and dried. Sumac is a rhus species--we've got some in the US, the
> midwestern folk make a tea/tisane from it--and not related at all to
> za'atar.

Ah, ha! The "Za'atar" that I was using, I had gotten from a Persian
restaurant that I used to frequent. I knew it was an herb. But I didn't
know that there was a mix by that name that is not the same as the plain
herb, Za'atar. Now I know that there's a difference--which might explain
why my bread looked like, but didn't taste like, theirs.

Since their English was better than my Iranian, when they tried to explain
what it was...the only thing that made sense in our several rounds of
hand-waving over the ingredients was the "sumac" part. My error! The mix
does, however, work great as grill seasoning on chicken and lamb...(:-o)!

This time I looked it up in my wife's Herbalist books. A most interesting
herb, and like named spice mix. Thank you again for adding to my knowledge
base, Brian.


Dusty
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>
>> Thanks for keeping me on the straight & narrow...(:-o)! And thanks for
>> that great starter you sent me...
>
> Glad it's working out!
>
> B/

Dusty wrote:

> Since their English was better than my Iranian, when they tried to explain
> what it was...the only thing that made sense in our several rounds of
> hand-waving over the ingredients was the "sumac" part. My error! The mix
> does, however, work great as grill seasoning on chicken and lamb...(:-o)!

and fish...

> This time I looked it up in my wife's Herbalist books. A most interesting
> herb, and like named spice mix. Thank you again for adding to my knowledge
> base, Brian.

Here's a recipe from my site for the mix--it's approximate but close enough.

http://www.jewishfood-list.com/recip...nt/zaatar.html

and here's a recipe for the bread I think you wanted... note that it's
grilled. I think it can be adapted to sourdough and I'm sure at one
point in the thousands of years its been made it was....

http://www.jewishfood-list.com/recip...dzaatar01.html

B/



>
> Dusty

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
....
>> hand-waving over the ingredients was the "sumac" part. My error! The
>> mix does, however, work great as grill seasoning on chicken and
>> lamb...(:-o)!
>
> and fish...
Hmmmm. Hadn't tried that. Not usually that much fish in a Persian
restaurant (at least the one I went to), but your suggestion sounds
wonderful. I'll have to give it a lash.

....
> and here's a recipe for the bread I think you wanted... note that it's
> grilled. I think it can be adapted to sourdough and I'm sure at one point
> in the thousands of years its been made it was....
Yes. It can...cuz that's obviously where it came from. Which was what
started all this. I've been making it sorta my mission to convert what were
probably ancient recipes back to how they were probably made...using
sourdough culture.

The recipe I was using is markedly different than the one you'd posted the
link for. Let me get a chance to make them both, clean up the recipes, and
I'll post 'em for the rest of the group...


Regards all,
Dusty
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....

Dusty wrote:

> The recipe I was using is markedly different than the one you'd posted the
> link for. Let me get a chance to make them both, clean up the recipes, and
> I'll post 'em for the rest of the group...

I found this one in there too, which may be more like what you thought.
http://www.jewishfood-list.com/recip...ebanese01.html

B/
>

Dusty wrote:

> The recipe I was using is markedly different than the one you'd posted the
> link for. Let me get a chance to make them both, clean up the recipes, and
> I'll post 'em for the rest of the group...

I found this one in there too, which may be more like what you thought.
http://www.jewishfood-list.com/recip...ebanese01.html

B/
>

in article , dougcullen
at wrote on 25/12/04 3:07 PM:

> i'm struggling with how to make good flatbread, for tortillas for
> example. How does one make a very flat bread that doesn't dry out and
> turn into a cracker within an hour of baking?
>
try the library for a copy of Alford and Duguid's book, "Flatbreads and
Flavors, A Baker's Atlas" they discuss and give recipes for flatbreads of
all kinds from all over the world. Many of these are not sourdough, but the
hard and dry problem would be the same. Most of them are eaten right after
being made, of course.
Ellen
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