Under what conditions would one use "Vital Wheat Gluten" in a bread recipe?
I haven't looked at bunches of recipes, but I've never seen one that used
this ingredient.

TIA
Raj

Raj V wrote:

> Under what conditions would one use "Vital Wheat Gluten" in a bread recipe?
> I haven't looked at bunches of recipes, but I've never seen one that used
> this ingredient.
>
> TIA
> Raj
>
>

Another name for vital wheat gluten is "gluten flour." It is important
to understand that this is different from "high-gluten flour." The
latter is bread flour with a high protein content of the right sort to
produce more gluten than typical bread flours when it is made up into a
dough. Gluten flour, or vital wheat gluten, is an additive used in small
quantities.

Gluten flour is made by mixing flour with water to make a dough and then
washing away the starch and drying and grinding what's left. There is
also a more modern process that accomplishes the same thing.

Gluten flour is added to doughs to give the baked goods more volume and
a lighter texture. For example, if you want to make a commercial whole
wheat bread (nominally made with 100% whole wheat flour) and have it be
as light and fluffy as Wonder Bread, you are allowed to add up to 2%
gluten flour. Another place it is used is in Kaiser Rolls (the real New
York ones, not the star-imprinted soft rolls that you see in most of the
country). These have a fragile, flaky crust and an airy crumb.

A lot of amateur bakers try to compensate for their difficulty in
properly developing the gluten in a dough by adding some vital wheat
gluten (gluten flour). Mostly, this is a cop-out. It's preferable to
learn better technique, instead. However, you do sometimes see recipes
for heavy multi-grain breads that call for a little gluten flour to help
compensate for all the non-gluten-forming flours that are used. This
undeniably helps the dough hold together and makes for a somewhat
lighter, tastier bread.

Raj V wrote:

> Under what conditions would one use "Vital Wheat Gluten" in a bread recipe?
> I haven't looked at bunches of recipes, but I've never seen one that used
> this ingredient.
>
> TIA
> Raj
>
>

Another name for vital wheat gluten is "gluten flour." It is important
to understand that this is different from "high-gluten flour." The
latter is bread flour with a high protein content of the right sort to
produce more gluten than typical bread flours when it is made up into a
dough. Gluten flour, or vital wheat gluten, is an additive used in small
quantities.

Gluten flour is made by mixing flour with water to make a dough and then
washing away the starch and drying and grinding what's left. There is
also a more modern process that accomplishes the same thing.

Gluten flour is added to doughs to give the baked goods more volume and
a lighter texture. For example, if you want to make a commercial whole
wheat bread (nominally made with 100% whole wheat flour) and have it be
as light and fluffy as Wonder Bread, you are allowed to add up to 2%
gluten flour. Another place it is used is in Kaiser Rolls (the real New
York ones, not the star-imprinted soft rolls that you see in most of the
country). These have a fragile, flaky crust and an airy crumb.

A lot of amateur bakers try to compensate for their difficulty in
properly developing the gluten in a dough by adding some vital wheat
gluten (gluten flour). Mostly, this is a cop-out. It's preferable to
learn better technique, instead. However, you do sometimes see recipes
for heavy multi-grain breads that call for a little gluten flour to help
compensate for all the non-gluten-forming flours that are used. This
undeniably helps the dough hold together and makes for a somewhat
lighter, tastier bread.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:14:54 -0500, Dick Margulis
> wrote:

>
>
>Raj V wrote:
>
>> Under what conditions would one use "Vital Wheat Gluten" in a bread recipe?
>> I haven't looked at bunches of recipes, but I've never seen one that used
>> this ingredient.
>>
>> TIA
>> Raj
>>
>>
>
>Another name for vital wheat gluten is "gluten flour." It is important
>to understand that this is different from "high-gluten flour." The
>latter is bread flour with a high protein content of the right sort to
>produce more gluten than typical bread flours when it is made up into a
>dough. Gluten flour, or vital wheat gluten, is an additive used in small
>quantities.
>
>Gluten flour is made by mixing flour with water to make a dough and then
>washing away the starch and drying and grinding what's left. There is
>also a more modern process that accomplishes the same thing.
>
>Gluten flour is added to doughs to give the baked goods more volume and
>a lighter texture. For example, if you want to make a commercial whole
>wheat bread (nominally made with 100% whole wheat flour) and have it be
>as light and fluffy as Wonder Bread, you are allowed to add up to 2%
>gluten flour. Another place it is used is in Kaiser Rolls (the real New
>York ones, not the star-imprinted soft rolls that you see in most of the
>country). These have a fragile, flaky crust and an airy crumb.
>
>A lot of amateur bakers try to compensate for their difficulty in
>properly developing the gluten in a dough by adding some vital wheat
>gluten (gluten flour). Mostly, this is a cop-out. It's preferable to
>learn better technique, instead. However, you do sometimes see recipes
>for heavy multi-grain breads that call for a little gluten flour to help
>compensate for all the non-gluten-forming flours that are used. This
>undeniably helps the dough hold together and makes for a somewhat
>lighter, tastier bread.

Very helpful and informative post, Dick. As a beginner, these kinds of
informative comments are encouraging. Thanks.


--
Hitachi HB-A101 bread machine, 1 pound
Email: Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com
(01/10/05)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:14:54 -0500, Dick Margulis
> wrote:

>
>
>Raj V wrote:
>
>> Under what conditions would one use "Vital Wheat Gluten" in a bread recipe?
>> I haven't looked at bunches of recipes, but I've never seen one that used
>> this ingredient.
>>
>> TIA
>> Raj
>>
>>
>
>Another name for vital wheat gluten is "gluten flour." It is important
>to understand that this is different from "high-gluten flour." The
>latter is bread flour with a high protein content of the right sort to
>produce more gluten than typical bread flours when it is made up into a
>dough. Gluten flour, or vital wheat gluten, is an additive used in small
>quantities.
>
>Gluten flour is made by mixing flour with water to make a dough and then
>washing away the starch and drying and grinding what's left. There is
>also a more modern process that accomplishes the same thing.
>
>Gluten flour is added to doughs to give the baked goods more volume and
>a lighter texture. For example, if you want to make a commercial whole
>wheat bread (nominally made with 100% whole wheat flour) and have it be
>as light and fluffy as Wonder Bread, you are allowed to add up to 2%
>gluten flour. Another place it is used is in Kaiser Rolls (the real New
>York ones, not the star-imprinted soft rolls that you see in most of the
>country). These have a fragile, flaky crust and an airy crumb.
>
>A lot of amateur bakers try to compensate for their difficulty in
>properly developing the gluten in a dough by adding some vital wheat
>gluten (gluten flour). Mostly, this is a cop-out. It's preferable to
>learn better technique, instead. However, you do sometimes see recipes
>for heavy multi-grain breads that call for a little gluten flour to help
>compensate for all the non-gluten-forming flours that are used. This
>undeniably helps the dough hold together and makes for a somewhat
>lighter, tastier bread.

Very helpful and informative post, Dick. As a beginner, these kinds of
informative comments are encouraging. Thanks.


--
Hitachi HB-A101 bread machine, 1 pound
Email: Usenet-20031220 at spamex.com
(01/10/05)

Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
>Another name for vital wheat gluten is...

Good info. Thanks for passing that around.

Dick Margulis wrote:

>
>
> Raj V wrote:
>
>> Under what conditions would one use "Vital Wheat Gluten" in a bread
>> recipe?
>> I haven't looked at bunches of recipes, but I've never seen one that used
>> this ingredient.
>>
>> TIA
>> Raj
>>
>>
>
> Another name for vital wheat gluten is "gluten flour." It is important
> to understand that this is different from "high-gluten flour." The
> latter is bread flour with a high protein content of the right sort to
> produce more gluten than typical bread flours when it is made up into a
> dough. Gluten flour, or vital wheat gluten, is an additive used in small
> quantities.
>
> Gluten flour is made by mixing flour with water to make a dough and then
> washing away the starch and drying and grinding what's left. There is
> also a more modern process that accomplishes the same thing.
>
> Gluten flour is added to doughs to give the baked goods more volume and
> a lighter texture. For example, if you want to make a commercial whole
> wheat bread (nominally made with 100% whole wheat flour) and have it be
> as light and fluffy as Wonder Bread, you are allowed to add up to 2%
> gluten flour. Another place it is used is in Kaiser Rolls (the real New
> York ones, not the star-imprinted soft rolls that you see in most of the
> country). These have a fragile, flaky crust and an airy crumb.
>
> A lot of amateur bakers try to compensate for their difficulty in
> properly developing the gluten in a dough by adding some vital wheat
> gluten (gluten flour). Mostly, this is a cop-out. It's preferable to
> learn better technique, instead. However, you do sometimes see recipes
> for heavy multi-grain breads that call for a little gluten flour to help
> compensate for all the non-gluten-forming flours that are used. This
> undeniably helps the dough hold together and makes for a somewhat
> lighter, tastier bread.

My esteemed and ever knowledgeable colleague, Dick is right on the money
with this one (as usual). I use about 1/2 teaspoon of vital wheat
gluten in my rye (especially my pumpernickel) and multi grain breads to
give them better "gluten" development and a lighter texture. But, it
really doesn't buy you much in a well made, properly kneaded white/wheat
bread. King Arthur's Baking Companion has a nice section on vital wheat
gluten and when you may want to consider using it and when you should
try to avoid it and rely on technique.

All the best,
Mary

Dick Margulis wrote:

>
>
> Raj V wrote:
>
>> Under what conditions would one use "Vital Wheat Gluten" in a bread
>> recipe?
>> I haven't looked at bunches of recipes, but I've never seen one that used
>> this ingredient.
>>
>> TIA
>> Raj
>>
>>
>
> Another name for vital wheat gluten is "gluten flour." It is important
> to understand that this is different from "high-gluten flour." The
> latter is bread flour with a high protein content of the right sort to
> produce more gluten than typical bread flours when it is made up into a
> dough. Gluten flour, or vital wheat gluten, is an additive used in small
> quantities.
>
> Gluten flour is made by mixing flour with water to make a dough and then
> washing away the starch and drying and grinding what's left. There is
> also a more modern process that accomplishes the same thing.
>
> Gluten flour is added to doughs to give the baked goods more volume and
> a lighter texture. For example, if you want to make a commercial whole
> wheat bread (nominally made with 100% whole wheat flour) and have it be
> as light and fluffy as Wonder Bread, you are allowed to add up to 2%
> gluten flour. Another place it is used is in Kaiser Rolls (the real New
> York ones, not the star-imprinted soft rolls that you see in most of the
> country). These have a fragile, flaky crust and an airy crumb.
>
> A lot of amateur bakers try to compensate for their difficulty in
> properly developing the gluten in a dough by adding some vital wheat
> gluten (gluten flour). Mostly, this is a cop-out. It's preferable to
> learn better technique, instead. However, you do sometimes see recipes
> for heavy multi-grain breads that call for a little gluten flour to help
> compensate for all the non-gluten-forming flours that are used. This
> undeniably helps the dough hold together and makes for a somewhat
> lighter, tastier bread.

My esteemed and ever knowledgeable colleague, Dick is right on the money
with this one (as usual). I use about 1/2 teaspoon of vital wheat
gluten in my rye (especially my pumpernickel) and multi grain breads to
give them better "gluten" development and a lighter texture. But, it
really doesn't buy you much in a well made, properly kneaded white/wheat
bread. King Arthur's Baking Companion has a nice section on vital wheat
gluten and when you may want to consider using it and when you should
try to avoid it and rely on technique.

All the best,
Mary

"Raj V" > wrote in message
...
> Under what conditions would one use "Vital Wheat Gluten" in a bread
> recipe?
> I haven't looked at bunches of recipes, but I've never seen one that used
> this ingredient.
>
> TIA
> Raj

VWG is also used in greater amounts to make low carb "bread". By using a
high proportion of VWG (which is essentially protein) you can reduce the
starch content of a loaf.

I've had the unfortunate experience of creating a low carb recipe for the
bakery I work at -- the dough is like rubber and behaves quite strangely.
VWG is a terrible product, IMO, and should rarely be used. Even heavy seeded
multi-grain breads can be made without VWG if you're careful.

Trevor

"Raj V" > wrote in message
...
> Under what conditions would one use "Vital Wheat Gluten" in a bread
> recipe?
> I haven't looked at bunches of recipes, but I've never seen one that used
> this ingredient.
>
> TIA
> Raj

VWG is also used in greater amounts to make low carb "bread". By using a
high proportion of VWG (which is essentially protein) you can reduce the
starch content of a loaf.

I've had the unfortunate experience of creating a low carb recipe for the
bakery I work at -- the dough is like rubber and behaves quite strangely.
VWG is a terrible product, IMO, and should rarely be used. Even heavy seeded
multi-grain breads can be made without VWG if you're careful.

Trevor

Ah, this probably explains the texture of my WW/Rye Bauernbrot, well cooked
but slightly chewy. In my ignorance I added 1/4 cup of it to my flour
mixtures. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Thanks for the information,
Raj

In article >, Dick Margulis
> writes
>A lot of amateur bakers try to compensate for their difficulty in properly
>developing the gluten in a dough by adding some vital wheat gluten (gluten
>flour). Mostly, this is a cop-out. It's preferable to learn better technique,
>instead. However, you do sometimes see recipes for heavy multi-grain breads that
>call for a little gluten flour to help compensate for all the non-gluten-forming
>flours that are used. This undeniably helps the dough hold together and makes
>for a somewhat lighter, tastier bread.

I find a small amount makes a big difference to Rose Levy Beranbaum's
Ten-Grain Torpedo, which has a heavy soaker including large seeds and
chops. Without it this bread is a lot denser. This is the only bread I
make that uses it, other than my lowish carb bread.
--
Jane Lumley

In article >, Dick Margulis
> writes
>A lot of amateur bakers try to compensate for their difficulty in properly
>developing the gluten in a dough by adding some vital wheat gluten (gluten
>flour). Mostly, this is a cop-out. It's preferable to learn better technique,
>instead. However, you do sometimes see recipes for heavy multi-grain breads that
>call for a little gluten flour to help compensate for all the non-gluten-forming
>flours that are used. This undeniably helps the dough hold together and makes
>for a somewhat lighter, tastier bread.

I find a small amount makes a big difference to Rose Levy Beranbaum's
Ten-Grain Torpedo, which has a heavy soaker including large seeds and
chops. Without it this bread is a lot denser. This is the only bread I
make that uses it, other than my lowish carb bread.
--
Jane Lumley

In article . net>,
Trevor J. Wilson > writes
>I've had the unfortunate experience of creating a low carb recipe for the
>bakery I work at -- the dough is like rubber and behaves quite strangely.

What did you use? Did you try cutting the VWG with whey to make it less
rubbery?

--
Jane Lumley

In article . net>,
Trevor J. Wilson > writes
>I've had the unfortunate experience of creating a low carb recipe for the
>bakery I work at -- the dough is like rubber and behaves quite strangely.

What did you use? Did you try cutting the VWG with whey to make it less
rubbery?

--
Jane Lumley

"Jane Lumley" > wrote in message
...
> In article . net>,
>
> What did you use? Did you try cutting the VWG with whey to make it less
> rubbery?

I never tried whey. Does it work well? I used some oats to keep it moist,
olive oil to "soften" the gluten, but the big texture improver was flaxmeal.
An earlier recipe used a large percentage of flaxmeal and the texture was
almost bread-like, but that stuff tastes like cat food and so did the bread.
The current recipe uses enough flaxmeal to give it decent texture, but not
destroy the flavor. It has a few other ingredients and is a sourdough low
carb bread. It's decent as far as low carb breads go, but it still sucks and
shouldn't really be called bread.

Trevor

"Trevor J. Wilson" > wrote in message=20
ink.net...

> ... An earlier recipe used a large percentage of flaxmeal and the =
texture was=20
> almost bread-like, but that stuff tastes like cat food and so did the =
bread.=20
> The current recipe uses enough flaxmeal to give it decent texture, but =
not=20
> destroy the flavor. It has a few other ingredients and is a sourdough =
low=20
> carb bread. It's decent as far as low carb breads go, but it still =
sucks and=20
> shouldn't really be called bread.

Maybe it would be good as cat food? Have you done any taste-testing =
with
cats? You know that average human is a very bad judge of cat-food =
taste.

It is well known that cats do not like bread very well, but it is also =
true that
their gastronomic evolution is such that they thrive poorly on =
low-protein
diets.

Perhaps if we could pack in enough stuff like whey and vital gluten and=20
flaxmeal we could make acceptable cat biscuits. Well, maybe a can of
sardines mixed in to make it interesting.

Most domestic cats are unaware that they are carnivores, and quite a few
vegetarian humans who keep cats are in denial about that, as well.
Commercial success can be predicted for the one who comes up with
vegetarian cat food.

--
DickA

In article . net>,
Trevor J. Wilson > writes
>
>"Jane Lumley" > wrote in message
...
>> In article . net>,
>>
>> What did you use? Did you try cutting the VWG with whey to make it less
>> rubbery?
>
>I never tried whey. Does it work well?

It works a bit. You aren't going to get a low-carb bread to taste
great, but it does make the bread less rubbery. Flaxmeal is good in
small doses - one can make fairish pancakes using it, for example.
Sourdough is also a great element - not only because it always feels
more real, but also because the wild yeasts have part-digested the carbs
in flour, reducing the carb content and so allowing you, the baker, to
add more flour in that form. You doubtless know all this.

Its been good talking with you. Like you, I'm a keen baker worried and
perplexed by the problems low-carb presents to bakers. The good news is
that Montignac and South Beach allow wholemeal....
--
Jane Lumley

in article , Jane Lumley at
wrote on 15/1/05 3:11 AM:

> In article . net>,
> Trevor J. Wilson > writes
>>
>> "Jane Lumley" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article . net>,
>>>
>>> What did you use? Did you try cutting the VWG with whey to make it less
>>> rubbery?
>>
>> I never tried whey. Does it work well?
>
> It works a bit. You aren't going to get a low-carb bread to taste
> great, but it does make the bread less rubbery. Flaxmeal is good in
> small doses - one can make fairish pancakes using it, for example.
> Sourdough is also a great element - not only because it always feels
> more real, but also because the wild yeasts have part-digested the carbs
> in flour, reducing the carb content and so allowing you, the baker, to
> add more flour in that form. You doubtless know all this.
>
> Its been good talking with you. Like you, I'm a keen baker worried and
> perplexed by the problems low-carb presents to bakers. The good news is
> that Montignac and South Beach allow wholemeal....
If you "part-digest" the carbs in flour , don't you just get more carbs (
sugars), or am I missing something?
Ellen
--