Hi, all I am new to this site. I just found you all this morning. I am
on another site and get a link to your group.

I have been doing sourdough for about 2 years and I am still working on
some glitches in my bread. I have Carl Griffith's starter, although I
have tried others, this is my favorite to work with. I have ben doing
100% whole wheat and took my recipe from Ed Wood's book in which I
revised for my own recipe.

I have really great bread and it rises well and tastes great. The only
problem I am having is tearing on the sides while it is set for the
final rise. I am not sure if I have been using too much flour, if I am
not kneading long enough, or if there is some other factor involved. I
had several batches last fal that were picture perfect but I haven't
been able to get consistant results.

Maybe some one on this site can offer some insight. I ahve a Bosch to
mix with and sold this bread at a local farmer's market all last
summer. I am wanting to work with it a little until I get the apperance
where I want it.

Thanks,
Jennifer

On 31 Jan 2005 12:37:35 -0800, "JBrewer"
> wrote:

>Hi, all I am new to this site. I just found you all this morning. I am
>on another site and get a link to your group.
>
>I have been doing sourdough for about 2 years and I am still working on
>some glitches in my bread. I have Carl Griffith's starter, although I
>have tried others, this is my favorite to work with. I have ben doing
>100% whole wheat and took my recipe from Ed Wood's book in which I
>revised for my own recipe.
>
>I have really great bread and it rises well and tastes great. The only
>problem I am having is tearing on the sides while it is set for the
>final rise. I am not sure if I have been using too much flour, if I am
>not kneading long enough, or if there is some other factor involved. I
>had several batches last fal that were picture perfect but I haven't
>been able to get consistant results.
>
>Maybe some one on this site can offer some insight. I ahve a Bosch to
>mix with and sold this bread at a local farmer's market all last
>summer. I am wanting to work with it a little until I get the apperance
>where I want it.
>
>Thanks,
>Jennifer

Hi Jennifer,

If the bread is "bursting" during the final rise it is very
likely because it is drying out: The dough forms a "skin"
that cannot stretch very well as the loaf tries to expand.
Because it can't stretch, it tears.

It may be drying out because you are "using too much flour"
or it might be caused by a (very) dry environment.

You might consider allowing the dough to have its final rise
in a plastic bag. Just put it in the bag, open the bag to
scoop in some air, the then tie it off. If you do that
properly, it will inflate like a balloon and will not touch
the rising loaf.

Of course, you could also experiment with adding more water,
but even very well hydrated doughs can dry out if they are
put to rise in a dry area.

I hope that this is of some help,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

What exactly do you mean by "tearing"? I doubt it's the amount of flour
you are using (i.e. hydration). I frequently make bagel dough with
about 50-57% hydration and have never had risen dough "tear" or
anything whilst rising.

One possible problem...one that I have encountered in my experiences.
If you are making boules, make sure to seal the "bottom" of the loaf
really well e.g. really pinch it together a couple of times. When I
first made round loaves, I didn't seal the seams well and sometimes
during proofing they would burst apart.

Phil

"JBrewer" wrote>
> I have really great bread and it rises well and tastes great. The only
> problem I am having is tearing on the sides while it is set for the
> final rise. I am not sure if I have been using too much flour, if I am
> not kneading long enough, or if there is some other factor involved. I
> had several batches last fal that were picture perfect but I haven't
> been able to get consistant results.
> Thanks,
> Jennifer

Perhaps:
1. Your proofing temperature is too high and it is killing the yeast.
2. Your starter has gone bad and is eating the dough. .
Ernie

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 00:05:17 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>
>"JBrewer" wrote>
>> I have really great bread and it rises well and tastes great. The only
>> problem I am having is tearing on the sides while it is set for the
>> final rise. I am not sure if I have been using too much flour, if I am
>> not kneading long enough, or if there is some other factor involved. I
>> had several batches last fal that were picture perfect but I haven't
>> been able to get consistant results.
>> Thanks,
>> Jennifer
>
>Perhaps:
>1. Your proofing temperature is too high and it is killing the yeast.
>2. Your starter has gone bad and is eating the dough. .
>Ernie
>

Huh...?

How would either of these contribute to the problem that
Jennifer described above?

Thanks,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

> >"Ernie" wrote
> >Perhaps:
> >1. Your proofing temperature is too high and it is killing the yeast.
> >2. Your starter has gone bad and is eating the dough. .
> >Ernie
> >

> Kenneth" wrote
> Huh...?
> How would either of these contribute to the problem that
> Jennifer described above?
> Thanks,
> Kenneth

It sounded like a problem I had during the final proofing. The skin of the
dough would split and start to fall apart. I was using the oven light to
heat the oven for proofing. I found the temperature would go ovet 100 and
start killing the yeast.
Ernie

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 02:01:12 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>
>> >"Ernie" wrote
>> >Perhaps:
>> >1. Your proofing temperature is too high and it is killing the yeast.
>> >2. Your starter has gone bad and is eating the dough. .
>> >Ernie
>> >
>
>> Kenneth" wrote
>> Huh...?
>> How would either of these contribute to the problem that
>> Jennifer described above?
>> Thanks,
>> Kenneth
>
>It sounded like a problem I had during the final proofing. The skin of the
>dough would split and start to fall apart. I was using the oven light to
>heat the oven for proofing. I found the temperature would go ovet 100 and
>start killing the yeast.
>Ernie
>

Hi Ernie,

I suspect that you are looking at the wrong variable as the
cause of the problem.

It would certainly seem to me that you had the loaf in a
warm dry place and it skinned over and cracked.

All thee best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> What exactly do you mean by "tearing"? snip
> Phil
>
She means the dough tears during the final rise--she doesn't mean it pulls
apart at the seams--the dough literally tears. I don't know the answer.
I've occasionally had this problem with a bread I've been making a long
time(yeasted and sourdough). My conclusion was that the dough was taken too
young for the final proof although I never absolutely was able to prove
this. The dough is not dissolving when this happens. Ask the cat.
Janet

Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
>
> ... Ask the cat...
>
I did and she thinks you are probably right about the dough.
Actually I asked and she just nodded because she is not talking
to me at the present time.

My computer chair deteriorated to the point that my bride threw
it out. I ordered a new one,but it won't be here for at least
ten days so I "borrowed" Ticker's computer chair; the one she
uses for her late evening nap. She moves from napping station to
napping station through the day. Now, when she get to the time
she should be spending in her computer chair, she gets on top of
the TV and glares at me.

I will ask her again when my new chair gets here and Ticker has
gotten over her huff and resumes talking to me.

I have had dough tear on me when I did not let the dough spend
enough time in the final rise, but I know you would not do that
so it is probably the other.

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

"Charles Perry" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>
>>
>> ... Ask the cat...
snip>
I "borrowed" Ticker's computer chair; the one she
> uses for her late evening nap. She moves from napping station to
> napping station through the day. Now, when she get to the time
> she should be spending in her computer chair, she gets on top of
> the TV and glares at me.
I'm with the cat on this one.
snip
> I have had dough tear on me when I did not let the dough spend
> enough time in the final rise, but I know you would not do that
> so it is probably the other.
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles
> --
> Charles Perry
> Reply to:
>
> ** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **
You'd be surprised. . .sometimes the dough is more vigorous than usual and
the usual means of judging are iffy. I have no idea what causes the vigor
either. Gremlins, maybe. Couldn't be me. ;o}
Janet

Well I do appreciate so many relies. I will try the rising in a bag and
see. It is dry in our house although I cover the loaves with a towel,
it may be a factor. I am setting my bread to rise at room temp. Around
70 dgrees so I wouldn't think that is too warm. I also have my dough
around 75 degrees when I am done mixing.

What I mean by tearing is that the bread will just tear as it is
rising. Sometimes real soon after I shape and set to rise it will begin
here and there. I am shaping in loaf pans and it will often be at the
edge of the pan but sometimes right on top. It's as if it is expanding
to rise and it won't hold together in some spots and tears as it
stretches. My last batch of cinnamon swirl tore and exposed the
cinnamon from one side. The other side didn't seem to tear and it was
almost a lopsided loaf. I have great rise and oven spring so I know my
yeast is very active.

Anyone who can give me times on mixing? I end up with about 8 pounds of
dough. I have a Bosch. I usually mix on low for 3-4 min. Rest 20. Add
salt and knead another 4-5 min on 2nd speed. I rest this in a bowl for
1 1/2-2 hours. Then preshape, rest 20 min. then the final shape place
in pans rise for 1 1/2-2 hours, then bake.

I would have to wonder if humidity is a factor. Some days my bread is
much better so I will keep this in mind.

How firm, moist, or sticky is your dough ?
I do appreciate all the help.

Jennifer

On 1 Feb 2005 08:05:43 -0800, "JBrewer"
> wrote:

>How firm, moist, or sticky is your dough ?
>I do appreciate all the help.
>
>Jennifer

Hi Jennifer,

Generally, doughs with higher hydration (that is the
proportion of wet to dry ingredients) produce breads with a
coarser crumb (bigger holes.) That gives them a more
"rustic" look.

Most of my breads are made that way, and, as a result, the
doughs are rather soft and sticky.

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."