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| Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures. |
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Injera
Has anybody tried to make injera with an existing sourdough starter?
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Carlo Milono wrote:
> Has anybody tried to make injera with an existing sourdough starter? Hm, no. IIRC; Injera is a regional (Ethiopian highlands) flatbread made with Teff (or t'ef). Given that it's a grain with such ancient roots, I'd submit that it originally was made with/as a SD product. You've made me curious...(:-o)! I've been making all sorts of SD flatbreads. And this would seem to be right in line with the rest. I'm gonna hafta look into getting some Teff flour and see what can be done... Thanks for the 'nudge!' Now, to find some t'ef... Dusty -- Remove STORE to reply |
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Carlo Milono Mar 11, 9:24 am asked:
>Has anybody tried to make injera with an existing sourdough starter? No, I have not. I wondered what it was. If this is an accurate recipe -- http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~mjw/recipes/ethnic/injera.html -- then an established sourdough starter might me a good idea as it could inhibit unhealthy organisms growing in the very wet mix over the long fermentation time. Also it would let you really taste what your starter is like when it's sour. --Lisse  |
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"Dusty" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... > Carlo Milono wrote: > > Has anybody tried to make injera with an existing sourdough starter? > Hm, no. IIRC; Injera is a regional (Ethiopian highlands) flatbread made > with Teff (or t'ef). Given that it's a grain with such ancient roots, I'd > submit that it originally was made with/as a SD product. > > You've made me curious...(:-o)! I've been making all sorts of SD > flatbreads. And this would seem to be right in line with the rest. I'm > gonna hafta look into getting some Teff flour and see what can be done... > > Thanks for the 'nudge!' > > Now, to find some t'ef... > > > Dusty Perhaps in an animal food store which is specialized on parrots or parakeets?? > Dusty > -- Ulrike |
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On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 19:38:15 +0100, "Ulrike Westphal"
> wrote: > >"Dusty" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... >> Carlo Milono wrote: >> > Has anybody tried to make injera with an existing sourdough starter? >> Hm, no. IIRC; Injera is a regional (Ethiopian highlands) flatbread made >> with Teff (or t'ef). Given that it's a grain with such ancient roots, I'd >> submit that it originally was made with/as a SD product. >> >> You've made me curious...(:-o)! I've been making all sorts of SD >> flatbreads. And this would seem to be right in line with the rest. I'm >> gonna hafta look into getting some Teff flour and see what can be done... >> >> Thanks for the 'nudge!' >> >> Now, to find some t'ef... >> >> >> Dusty > > >Perhaps in an animal food store which is specialized on parrots or >parakeets?? > >> Dusty >> -- >Ulrike > Why not just get some from here? https://www.bobsredmill.com/catalog/...product_ID=387 Boron |
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Injeral culture produces a more acidic taste in the end product.
Its actually a combination of a unique wild yeast called candida guillermondi, coupled with strains of lactobacteria L. brevis,pediococcus, etc. I think there is a possibility that the san francisco sourdough strain may imitate the taste and performance. How about giving it a try? |
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Dusty wrote:
> Carlo Milono wrote: > >>Has anybody tried to make injera with an existing sourdough starter? > > Hm, no. IIRC; Injera is a regional (Ethiopian highlands) flatbread made > with Teff (or t'ef). Given that it's a grain with such ancient roots, I'd > submit that it originally was made with/as a SD product. > > You've made me curious...(:-o)! I've been making all sorts of SD > flatbreads. And this would seem to be right in line with the rest. I'm > gonna hafta look into getting some Teff flour and see what can be done... > > Thanks for the 'nudge!' > > Now, to find some t'ef... > > > Dusty It is grown in California these days. The person from Ethiopia that showed me how she made hers used barley flour as well. Alford and Duiguid's Flavors of Flatbreads has a recipe. Ellen |
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Roy wrote:
> Injeral culture produces a more acidic taste in the end product. > Its actually a combination of a unique wild yeast called candida > guillermondi, coupled with strains of lactobacteria L. > brevis,pediococcus, etc. > I think there is a possibility that the san francisco sourdough > strain may imitate the taste and performance. > How about giving it a try? After I replied to the post asking, I went out and bought all 3 bags my store had of Teff flour. I built the recipe provided, and am about 20 min for giving it a shot. To go with it, I just finished up some Ethiopian lentils, and some "Siga Wot". I posted the Injeral recipe he http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...ugh/injera.htm But take some care...it's completely untested (except for the batch that's growing in my proofing box at the moment... I'll be putting it to the fire in about 1/2 an hour... Actually, about 3 minutes...(:-o)! #1 daughter just tasted the Siga Wot...and pronounced it really, REALLY good! The lentils are pretty good as well... Time to go eat! Dusty -- Remove STORE to reply |
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Dusty wrote:
> Roy wrote: >> Injeral culture produces a more acidic taste in the end product. >> Its actually a combination of a unique wild yeast called candida >> guillermondi, coupled with strains of lactobacteria L. >> brevis,pediococcus, etc. >> I think there is a possibility that the san francisco sourdough >> strain may imitate the taste and performance. >> How about giving it a try? > After I replied to the post asking, I went out and bought all 3 bags > my store had of Teff flour. I built the recipe provided, and am > about 20 min for giving it a shot. Okay, I've made a batch. I gotta admit, except for the lentils, it came out pretty good! I've updated the recipe as listed, with my working changes. In a day or two I'll try it again, and refine it a bit more. You can read all about it, he http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...ugh/injera.htm General observations: 1. The Injera batter got MUCH thinner with time and fermentation. I was in error in trying to "thicken" it with flour. In the next iteration, I'll be reverting back to the recipe proportions. 2. The Injera batter is very dark, purple-brown, like pinto bean paste. 3. The batter cooks rather quickly. And in my pan, at least, it didn't stick (and NO, I don't use a "coated" pan!). 4. I made Ethiopian lentils (http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Et...an/lentils.htm) and Siga Wot (http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Et...n/siga_wot.htm) with it. The lentils needed MUCH more salt, and the Siga Wot could have used both more salt and some more 'hot' spices. I was cautious using spices because I was expecting my GK's to be over for dinner. 5. I'm going to replace the "tomato paste" in the Siga Wot with crushed or diced tomatoes. 6. We served it, as we do with many of our more spicy meals, with a dollop of sour-cream (plain yoghurt or Quark would work equally well). Yummy! 7. The general consensus--considering how quiet it was around the table--was that everyone like it. Of course, YMMV! 8. This is my second 12-hour total time sourdough recipe--right after my SD pizza dough. This sure makes the "decision period" easier to work... Over the next interval, I'll try to come up with a Teff-flour free alternative...as I'm sure many readers won't have the access to it that I enjoy here in San Jose. My guess? It won't matter all that much. Flat-bread is flat-bread. Given the rather intense, explicit flavors of the rest of the meal, the exact ingredients can't possibly matter all that much... Enjoy! Dusty San Jose, Ca. -- Remove STORE to reply |
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Dusty wrote:
> 2. The Injera batter is very dark, purple-brown, like pinto bean paste. That's interesting. The injera pancakes at the local Ethiopian restaurant are gray. You can see the color when you google injera images. Samartha |
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Samartha Deva wrote:
> Dusty wrote: > >> 2. The Injera batter is very dark, purple-brown, like pinto bean >> paste. > > That's interesting. The injera pancakes at the local Ethiopian > restaurant are gray. > > You can see the color when you google injera images. Donno what to tell ya, Samartha. I just calls 'em like I see's 'em... Considering the starting color of the flour, it's certainly a bit of a surprise...which is why I'd mentioned it... I'll see what I can do to capture a picture. Gonna hafta look for my color reference card, though, first... L8r, Dusty -- Remove STORE to reply |
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Dusty wrote:
> Samartha Deva wrote: > >>Dusty wrote: >> >> >>>2. The Injera batter is very dark, purple-brown, like pinto bean >>>paste. >> >>That's interesting. The injera pancakes at the local Ethiopian >>restaurant are gray. >> >>You can see the color when you google injera images. > > Donno what to tell ya, Samartha. I just calls 'em like I see's 'em... > > Considering the starting color of the flour, it's certainly a bit of a > surprise...which is why I'd mentioned it... > > I'll see what I can do to capture a picture. Gonna hafta look for my color > reference card, though, first... I don't think that you are colorblind but.. maybe it needs acicidy to get a lighter color. Take a sample and put white vinegor on and see if the color changes. Just an idea... S. > > > L8r, > Dusty |
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Samartha Deva wrote:
.... >> Donno what to tell ya, Samartha. I just calls 'em like I see's >> 'em... Considering the starting color of the flour, it's certainly a bit >> of >> a surprise...which is why I'd mentioned it... >> >> I'll see what I can do to capture a picture. Gonna hafta look for >> my color reference card, though, first... > I don't think that you are colorblind but.. maybe it needs acicidy to Well thank you...but that's not why I'd mentioned that. Shades and degrees of color subtle things, and even the best monitor can throw something that miniscule off. I wanted it so that I could confirm my own pictures, that's all. > get a lighter color. > > Take a sample and put white vinegor on and see if the color changes. > > Just an idea... An interesting idea, that. So you're thinking that I didn't allow enough time for the acids to build. A distinct possibility I must say. It's already morning, and I usually build from the night before. But I'll give that a try in a future build. Typically I build all of my SD projects in stages, and do it for longer than I'd allowed in the previous instance. My time frame was skewed (shortened) due to the constraints of when I actually got my hands on Teff flour--and when I had planned on consuming it. When the result came out quite edible, I wrote it up as it found me. Which is why I had annotated that recipe as "Beware"...(:-o)! The other problem is that it's been probably more than a decade since I'd eaten an Injera in an Ethiopian restaurant. And I gotta admit that I didn't pay it much attention. Maybe it's time for lunch at "their" place today... One final note, I found dozens of recipes for Injera. Since I knew that it was an ancient food, I threw out all of those that used: Bisquick, baking soda, eggs, yeast, and such. As they couldn't possibly have been original. Much like good SD bread, little beyond flour, water, culture, and salt s/b required. But I'll keep searching to see what else turns up... Thank you, Carlo, for bringing this up. Hope my adventures have been helpful to you and all... Dusty -- Remove STORE to reply |
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Dusty wrote:
>Samartha Deva wrote: > > >>Dusty wrote: >> >> >> >>>2. The Injera batter is very dark, purple-brown, like pinto bean >>>paste. >>> >>> >>That's interesting. The injera pancakes at the local Ethiopian >>restaurant are gray. >> >>You can see the color when you google injera images. >> >> >Donno what to tell ya, Samartha. I just calls 'em like I see's 'em... > >Considering the starting color of the flour, it's certainly a bit of a >surprise...which is why I'd mentioned it... > >I'll see what I can do to capture a picture. Gonna hafta look for my color >reference card, though, first... > > >L8r, >Dusty > > Surfin' the web, I read that the T'ef ranges from white-to-grey-to-red-to-black and that the resulting Injera is priced according to its whiteness. |
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Carlo Milono wrote:
.... >>>> 2. The Injera batter is very dark, purple-brown, like pinto bean >>>> paste. >>> That's interesting. The injera pancakes at the local Ethiopian >>> restaurant are gray. >>> >>> You can see the color when you google injera images. >> Donno what to tell ya, Samartha. I just calls 'em like I see's >> 'em... > Surfin' the web, I read that the T'ef ranges from > white-to-grey-to-red-to-black and that the resulting Injera is priced > according to its whiteness. Yep. I found a domestic supplier of both the grain and flour. And found that it can be ordered in "Ivory" and "Brown". I've ordered a 5# bag of the Ivory, and will see what happens when I get to work with that. As Samartha had pointed out, pictures I've seen, and my fuzzy recollection of several long-ago meals with it would seem to imply that it's a light colored material, not unlike a tortilla. In any event, I had lots of Siga Wot and Ethiopian Lentils left over, so I've launched another batch of Injera, brown, for tonight...(:-o)! I can't wait to enjoy it again! FWIW; it was a big hit with the family. And as an additional benefit, the fragrances from the Wot and Lentils suffusing throughout the house made everybody ravenous for dinner...very nice! Later all, Dusty -- Remove STORE to reply |
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Dusty wrote:
> As Samartha had pointed out, pictures I've seen, and my fuzzy recollection > of several long-ago meals with it would seem to imply that it's a light > colored material, not unlike a tortilla. More like a thawed, but not toasted Eggo. B/ |
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Carlo Milono wrote:
> Has anybody tried to make injera with an existing sourdough starter? I bought "Ivory T'eff" at Rainbow Grocery in S.F. on Saturday. I milled the grain with my VitaMix, and made an Equinox Sour (tm!). This morning, the Injera came out relatively "good", and by tonight it was great! I used two TBS of sourdough starter for 1 Cup of T'eff flour and 1.5 cup of water. My test in the Morning was rough, but by the evening, I had things in order...with about 12 hours of fermentation... check it out! http://www.sonic.net/~cmilono/sourdo...equinox-05.JPG ....now considering sourdough ethnicity, is anybody interested in South Indian Idli! Sourdough rice and beans dumpling?! I'm on it! |
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>is anybody interested in South
>Indian Idli! Sourdough rice and beans dumpling?! I'm on it! Indian sourdough?. Or what makes idli batter from the other...A fascinating subject to discuss from the microbiological point and how it differs from the standard sourdough we know in the west. In particular idli batters.. See.this referrence Venkatasubbaiah,P. Dwarakanath C.T. and Srinivasa Murthi. W.investigated the microbiology in the early 1980's and published the results in Journal of Food science & Technology,21:59-62.This study was also quoted Jalal Qarooni in Flat Bread Technology puiblished by Chapman and Hall in 1996 The suggested that coliform organism are involved in the enzymatic conversion of starch to sugars to be used the lactic acid bacteria and wild yeasts. This seems surprising at first as coliforms are associated with fecal matter and how did it come to the microbial flora of idli. Maybe they are not pointing a finger to Eschrerichia Coli but other forms of enterobacteriaceae such as the Yersenia,Serratia and Proteus species which are ,more hamless( and less notorious from the pathological point of view. The wild yeast were identified as Trichosporum pullulans, Torulopsis holmii and T. Candida.. The bacteria that responsible for gassing and acidification was identified as leuconostoc mesenteroides which is the predominant lactobacteria. Now if we compare this with Injera which according to that book by Qarooni to contain in addition to the lactobactera and wild yeast strain of candida specie;; var. guillermonde in addition also had a substantial fungal population derived from Teff which are from the Aspergillus,Pullularia and Penicillium.. Extraneous presence of other yeast strains were also discovered in the Ethiopian Injera such as the Rhodotorula and Hormodendrum species Roy |
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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Carlo Milono wrote:
> Carlo Milono wrote: > > > Has anybody tried to make injera with an existing sourdough starter? > > I bought "Ivory T'eff" at Rainbow Grocery in S.F. on Saturday. I milled > the grain with my VitaMix, and made an Equinox Sour (tm!). This > morning, the Injera came out relatively "good", and by tonight it was > great! I used two TBS of sourdough starter for 1 Cup of T'eff flour and > 1.5 cup of water. My test in the Morning was rough, but by the evening, > I had things in order...with about 12 hours of fermentation... check it > out! > > http://www.sonic.net/~cmilono/sourdo...equinox-05.JPG Looks perfect, Carlo! How big are the injera, and how many do you get for the 1 Cup flour mix? Your posting came through as 07:30 GMT, so I guess you were posting late Sunday night, Pacific time. Did you make up the batter Saturday evening, so it fermented overnight, then waited another 12 hours, for the best results? Dave |
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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Carlo Milono wrote:
> Carlo Milono wrote: > > > Has anybody tried to make injera with an existing sourdough starter? > > I bought "Ivory T'eff" at Rainbow Grocery in S.F. on Saturday. I milled > the grain with my VitaMix, and made an Equinox Sour (tm!). This > morning, the Injera came out relatively "good", and by tonight it was > great! I used two TBS of sourdough starter for 1 Cup of T'eff flour and > 1.5 cup of water. My test in the Morning was rough, but by the evening, > I had things in order...with about 12 hours of fermentation... check it > out! > > http://www.sonic.net/~cmilono/sourdo...equinox-05.JPG Looks perfect, Carlo! How big are the injera, and how many do you get for the 1 Cup flour mix? Your posting came through as 07:30 GMT, so I guess you were posting late Sunday night, Pacific time. Did you make up the batter Saturday evening, so it fermented overnight, then waited another 12 hours, for the best results? Dave |
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Roy wrote:
>>is anybody interested in South >>Indian Idli! Sourdough rice and beans dumpling?! I'm on it! >> >> > > >Indian sourdough?. Or what makes idli batter from the other...A >fascinating subject to discuss from the microbiological point and how >it differs from the standard sourdough we know in the west. >In particular idli batters.. See.this referrence >Venkatasubbaiah,P. Dwarakanath C.T. and Srinivasa Murthi. >W.investigated the microbiology in the early 1980's and published the >results in Journal of Food science & Technology,21:59-62.This study was >also quoted Jalal Qarooni in Flat Bread Technology puiblished by >Chapman and Hall in 1996 >The suggested that coliform organism are involved in the enzymatic >conversion of starch to sugars to be used the lactic acid bacteria and >wild yeasts. >This seems surprising at first as coliforms are associated with fecal >matter and how did it come to the microbial flora of idli. Maybe they >are not pointing a finger to Eschrerichia Coli but other forms of >enterobacteriaceae such as the Yersenia,Serratia and Proteus species >which are ,more hamless( and less notorious from the pathological >point of view. >The wild yeast were identified as Trichosporum pullulans, Torulopsis >holmii and T. Candida.. The bacteria that responsible for gassing and >acidification was identified as leuconostoc mesenteroides which is the >predominant lactobacteria. >Now if we compare this with Injera which according to that book by >Qarooni to contain in addition to the lactobactera and wild yeast >strain of candida specie;; var. guillermonde in addition also had a >substantial fungal population derived from Teff which are from the >Aspergillus,Pullularia and Penicillium.. Extraneous presence of other >yeast strains were also discovered in the Ethiopian Injera such as the >Rhodotorula and Hormodendrum species >Roy > > > This is what I find interesting! The basic materials used for a sourdough starter favor a particular balance of organisms, and location (e.g., closer to Equator vs. San Francisco) - a mix of science, folklore, art, and ecology! When I started making cheese, C.H.I.P.S was the only site that had some of the expen$ive books I wanted - and the Qarooni book you mentioned is also available: http://www.chipsbooks.com/flatbred.htm |
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Dave Bell wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Carlo Milono wrote: > > > >>Carlo Milono wrote: >> >> >> >>>Has anybody tried to make injera with an existing sourdough starter? >>> >>> >>I bought "Ivory T'eff" at Rainbow Grocery in S.F. on Saturday. I milled >>the grain with my VitaMix, and made an Equinox Sour (tm!). This >>morning, the Injera came out relatively "good", and by tonight it was >>great! I used two TBS of sourdough starter for 1 Cup of T'eff flour and >>1.5 cup of water. My test in the Morning was rough, but by the evening, >>I had things in order...with about 12 hours of fermentation... check it >>out! >> >>http://www.sonic.net/~cmilono/sourdo...equinox-05.JPG >> >> > >Looks perfect, Carlo! How big are the injera, and how many do you get for >the 1 Cup flour mix? > > > I got six 11" breads from 1 Cup of flour. >Your posting came through as 07:30 GMT, so I guess you were posting late >Sunday night, Pacific time. Did you make up the batter Saturday evening, >so it fermented overnight, then waited another 12 hours, for the best >results? > > > I shopped Saturday, and ground the Ivory Teff grain in a VitaMix around 4pm. I added just over an equal amount of water, and two TBS of my wheat-based starter. By 10am the next day, it looked pretty good, so I thinned it a little and cooked one up - too much heat, too thick a batter. It cracked a little bit. By 7pm (27 hours after grinding and adding starter), it was coming out "perfect" - stretchy, light, just the right amount of sour, and perfect holes - very little cracking. I had thinned it again and watched the heat/time. Lessons Learned: I think I'd grind the grain even finer. The feel of the batter after 18 hours still seemed gritty, but after 27 hours, everything must have hydrated to softness. I might try to make a Teff Starter as I suspect that materials influence the ecology of the batter. >Dave > > |
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Jalal Qarooni's book is a good referrence for the various flat breads
Including idli,kisra and injera and many other ethnic flatbreads ; but it was discussed from a technological point of view. Roy |
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Jalal Qarooni's book is a good referrence for the various flat breads
Including idli,kisra and injera and many other ethnic flatbreads ; but it was discussed from a technological point of view. Roy |
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