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Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures. |
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doughwizard (apprentice) wrote:
> That is the thing though I don't want to buy a culture anymore now I > want to start one. I think that most "starters" that you buy contain > regular yeast and that explains the fast rising time and dullness of > flavor seen by most people with the carl starter etc. Total BS - all your fantasy. That's the second time you come up with this crap. http://samartha.net/SD/docs/DW-post1-4n.html#450 Carls works fine, if you're doing it right. You're the doofus I was referring in a previous post recently. Go there, look at the links I posted. How many folks have gotten it together with Carls, SD international cultures, self grown, gotten from friends, bakeries etc. all without "yeast" and you? Assuming things are as you think they should be totally missing the point. > I'm going to start my own starter is there anybody here who has done > this b4. Well, wake up, that's an old story, done for millenniums. Has anyone "done it b4"? Give me a break, for crying out loud get some facts! http://samartha.net/SD/MakeStarter01.html (I am not suggesting you try it because I think you will mess it up if you can't get a regular Carl's going) > (NOT using any form of dried starter, just flour and water) I > know it will take awhile but really want to get a good starter going > that will keep forever. I have baked quite a bit, not worried about > that at all, just need to get the starter "started". Well, looks you are even before the first step and making assumptions. You wanna be a dough wizard? Sure ... if you can't even grow a purchased/free_as_in_Carls one and find rationalizations why it does not work and now you want to grow your own - good luck! Just waiting what else is wrong - maybe the millstones were crooked this time? Have fun and keep reporting. Samartha |
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doughwizard (apprentice) wrote:
> That is the thing though I don't want to buy a culture anymore now I > want to start one. I think that most "starters" that you buy contain > regular yeast and that explains the fast rising time and dullness of > flavor seen by most people with the carl starter etc. Total BS - all your fantasy. That's the second time you come up with this crap. http://samartha.net/SD/docs/DW-post1-4n.html#450 Carls works fine, if you're doing it right. You're the doofus I was referring in a previous post recently. Go there, look at the links I posted. How many folks have gotten it together with Carls, SD international cultures, self grown, gotten from friends, bakeries etc. all without "yeast" and you? Assuming things are as you think they should be totally missing the point. > I'm going to start my own starter is there anybody here who has done > this b4. Well, wake up, that's an old story, done for millenniums. Has anyone "done it b4"? Give me a break, for crying out loud get some facts! http://samartha.net/SD/MakeStarter01.html (I am not suggesting you try it because I think you will mess it up if you can't get a regular Carl's going) > (NOT using any form of dried starter, just flour and water) I > know it will take awhile but really want to get a good starter going > that will keep forever. I have baked quite a bit, not worried about > that at all, just need to get the starter "started". Well, looks you are even before the first step and making assumptions. You wanna be a dough wizard? Sure ... if you can't even grow a purchased/free_as_in_Carls one and find rationalizations why it does not work and now you want to grow your own - good luck! Just waiting what else is wrong - maybe the millstones were crooked this time? Have fun and keep reporting. Samartha |
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I will try that thanx.
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This is why I no longer want to use the carl starter. I don't care so
much about the way the loaf looks but do care about flavor and its not there with that starter which was why I posted in the first place. Everyone I know devours my yeast bread, but when I made the loaves people were like 'this is sourdough it doesn't taste like it." It was good for regular bread, but it didn't have any flavor at all. And obviously, all flavor in bread comes from a starter OR yeast...AND I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here had some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's bread in your kitchen not a labratory! |
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This is why I no longer want to use the carl starter. I don't care so
much about the way the loaf looks but do care about flavor and its not there with that starter which was why I posted in the first place. Everyone I know devours my yeast bread, but when I made the loaves people were like 'this is sourdough it doesn't taste like it." It was good for regular bread, but it didn't have any flavor at all. And obviously, all flavor in bread comes from a starter OR yeast...AND I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here had some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's bread in your kitchen not a labratory! |
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doughwizard wrote:
> This is why I no longer want to use the carl starter. I don't care so > much about the way the loaf looks but do care about flavor and its not > there with that starter which was why I posted in the first place. That's fine, that's your choice. AND your experience, which is also fine, BUT that doesn't mean you can extrapolate that to everyone else. B/ |
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doughwizard wrote:
> This is why I no longer want to use the carl starter. I don't care so > much about the way the loaf looks but do care about flavor and its not > there with that starter which was why I posted in the first place. That's fine, that's your choice. AND your experience, which is also fine, BUT that doesn't mean you can extrapolate that to everyone else. B/ |
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Doughgenius said:
>AND I >DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT >SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here had >some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's bread >in your kitchen not a labratory! Mate.....does it make a difference if the bread is made by a baker or a scientist? Or its made in a laboratory or in the kitchen....Remember ....A baker calls his laboratory a kitchen (or in larger scale ) a bakery.... a food scientist calls his kitchen a laboratory....They are the same place,although not equally with the same facility but it still an area where you prepare food<g>. As long as the item is still an honest to goodness naturally leavened (traditionally made) bread. it still a wholesome bread and it will definitely taste good. You are not alone in your experience.....even seasoned bakers can have that so called plain tasting bread. occasionally ...but if it happens all the time their taste buds got jaded that they can no longer see anything exciting with their own product....Even a normal cook had that experience... Another thing is the taste of one person is not the same as another.... If I want to make a distinct tang in my naturally fermented bread with French Levain I will increase the starter ratio in relation to the dough flour and it can show a slight difference in taste( in terms of acidity). Maybe that is what you want?. Now ....Story telling time<g> I had this experience in the bakery recently....I made a sourdough French bread with French levain.... the customer criticized it and said the taste is not like what is sold in a bakery from the next town where she lives which (incidentally I know )specializes on San Francisco Sourdough.French bread... I told the customer .....So what ?....there are many version of French bread....My products sells well ....whether you like it or not....it does not matter... but anyway....Thank you for your criticism....and have a nice day. Therefore.... Please do not let your ego get the better of you....be open minded. As a beginner.... You cannot learn on something if you had not failed on it one or few times ... but that is the road to knowledge......always dirty ....never paved<g> You will never improve your skill if you are an 'onionskinned' baker. Keep on practicing... keep on reading...... whether its a dissertation of sourdough or a simple recipe...you can learn a lot ..... even from the wisdom of Charles Perrys cat .Ticker<g> Pease set aside your pride chicken<g> for the time being hmnn? Roy |
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Doughgenius said:
>AND I >DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT >SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here had >some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's bread >in your kitchen not a labratory! Mate.....does it make a difference if the bread is made by a baker or a scientist? Or its made in a laboratory or in the kitchen....Remember ....A baker calls his laboratory a kitchen (or in larger scale ) a bakery.... a food scientist calls his kitchen a laboratory....They are the same place,although not equally with the same facility but it still an area where you prepare food<g>. As long as the item is still an honest to goodness naturally leavened (traditionally made) bread. it still a wholesome bread and it will definitely taste good. You are not alone in your experience.....even seasoned bakers can have that so called plain tasting bread. occasionally ...but if it happens all the time their taste buds got jaded that they can no longer see anything exciting with their own product....Even a normal cook had that experience... Another thing is the taste of one person is not the same as another.... If I want to make a distinct tang in my naturally fermented bread with French Levain I will increase the starter ratio in relation to the dough flour and it can show a slight difference in taste( in terms of acidity). Maybe that is what you want?. Now ....Story telling time<g> I had this experience in the bakery recently....I made a sourdough French bread with French levain.... the customer criticized it and said the taste is not like what is sold in a bakery from the next town where she lives which (incidentally I know )specializes on San Francisco Sourdough.French bread... I told the customer .....So what ?....there are many version of French bread....My products sells well ....whether you like it or not....it does not matter... but anyway....Thank you for your criticism....and have a nice day. Therefore.... Please do not let your ego get the better of you....be open minded. As a beginner.... You cannot learn on something if you had not failed on it one or few times ... but that is the road to knowledge......always dirty ....never paved<g> You will never improve your skill if you are an 'onionskinned' baker. Keep on practicing... keep on reading...... whether its a dissertation of sourdough or a simple recipe...you can learn a lot ..... even from the wisdom of Charles Perrys cat .Ticker<g> Pease set aside your pride chicken<g> for the time being hmnn? Roy |
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![]() "Roy" > wrote in message oups.com... > ... Pease set aside your pride chicken <g> for the time being hmnn? Yeah, you stoopid chicken -- go stand in the corner. Hmnn ... Well, now ... Where were we? Was there something about a wise-ass cat? Git away, cat -- I can handle this. Kee---reist! Yeah, yeah, I know -- no HTML, no graphics. The cat made me do it. |
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![]() "doughwizard" > wrote in message = oups.com... > ... I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE=20 > MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT SOURDOUGH BREAD ( -- )=20 > IS THAT SO HARD (?) Hey, Billy*, here is your cue. Swoop down here with your streaming cape = and your Krusteaz tee-shirt. This poor fellow is being sorely abused by the sourdough hardnoses and intellectual bakers. In the meantime, work continues on my SD tablet -- just drop it into a glass of water and, voila, the Poil=E2ne loaf, or what did you want? -- DickA _________________ *Repeating Rifle AKA BillyFish AKA FishyBill |
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![]() "doughwizard" > wrote in message = oups.com... > ... I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE=20 > MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT SOURDOUGH BREAD ( -- )=20 > IS THAT SO HARD (?) Hey, Billy*, here is your cue. Swoop down here with your streaming cape = and your Krusteaz tee-shirt. This poor fellow is being sorely abused by the sourdough hardnoses and intellectual bakers. In the meantime, work continues on my SD tablet -- just drop it into a glass of water and, voila, the Poil=E2ne loaf, or what did you want? -- DickA _________________ *Repeating Rifle AKA BillyFish AKA FishyBill |
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![]() "doughwizard" > wrote in message oups.com... Snip AND I > DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT > SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here had > some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's bread > in your kitchen not a labratory! > When ignorance is bliss............ Graham |
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![]() doughwizard wrote: > This is why I no longer want to use the carl starter. I don't care so > much about the way the loaf looks but do care about flavor and its not > there with that starter which was why I posted in the first place. > Everyone I know devours my yeast bread, but when I made the loaves > people were like 'this is sourdough it doesn't taste like it." It was > good for regular bread, but it didn't have any flavor at all. And > obviously, all flavor in bread comes from a starter OR yeast...AND I > DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT > SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here had > some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's bread > in your kitchen not a labratory! Well Doughwizard... welcome to sourdough's nasty little secret: most of the time it isn't particularly sour. Indeed, many levain cultures aren't sour at all. In my experience, really sour breads do take a bit of science to produce. So we won't discuss it. At some point you might want to know why something did or didn't happen and then of course science must rear it's ugly head. Making a starter is easy. You need freshly ground wheat or rye. For fun, my last starter was made by soaking wheat berries until they were swollen, letting them bud, but not sprout. Then I mashed the berries in a mortar and let them ferment. Pretty simple and certainly not much science to it. The trick, whether you use a water-flour slurry, a water-flour paste, mashed berries, whatever... is to use fresh grain. The older the flour, the harder it is. It is close to impossible to do with white flour. So it will be worth the effort to run rye or wheat grain in your blender if necessary. You will need to refresh your slurry/paste/mash every two days until you see obvious signs of fermentation. Afterwards treat the fermenting goo like you treat a your ordinary commercial yeast sponge. I noticed that you wrote: "all flavor in bread comes from a starter OR yeast". That isn't particularly true. The next time you bake, using your regular dough, do one loaf at 500F and another at 350F. Let us know what you discover. Will |
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![]() doughwizard wrote: > This is why I no longer want to use the carl starter. I don't care so > much about the way the loaf looks but do care about flavor and its not > there with that starter which was why I posted in the first place. > Everyone I know devours my yeast bread, but when I made the loaves > people were like 'this is sourdough it doesn't taste like it." It was > good for regular bread, but it didn't have any flavor at all. And > obviously, all flavor in bread comes from a starter OR yeast...AND I > DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT > SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here had > some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's bread > in your kitchen not a labratory! Well Doughwizard... welcome to sourdough's nasty little secret: most of the time it isn't particularly sour. Indeed, many levain cultures aren't sour at all. In my experience, really sour breads do take a bit of science to produce. So we won't discuss it. At some point you might want to know why something did or didn't happen and then of course science must rear it's ugly head. Making a starter is easy. You need freshly ground wheat or rye. For fun, my last starter was made by soaking wheat berries until they were swollen, letting them bud, but not sprout. Then I mashed the berries in a mortar and let them ferment. Pretty simple and certainly not much science to it. The trick, whether you use a water-flour slurry, a water-flour paste, mashed berries, whatever... is to use fresh grain. The older the flour, the harder it is. It is close to impossible to do with white flour. So it will be worth the effort to run rye or wheat grain in your blender if necessary. You will need to refresh your slurry/paste/mash every two days until you see obvious signs of fermentation. Afterwards treat the fermenting goo like you treat a your ordinary commercial yeast sponge. I noticed that you wrote: "all flavor in bread comes from a starter OR yeast". That isn't particularly true. The next time you bake, using your regular dough, do one loaf at 500F and another at 350F. Let us know what you discover. Will |
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On 7 Apr 2005 09:40:06 -0700, "Will" >
wrote: > >Making a starter is easy. snip. >It is close to impossible to do >with white flour. Sir, I beg to differ. I have created many white flour starters over the years. There is nothing to it. I have used KA or Heckers and never had much trouble. Active, flexible in and adaptable to various recipes/ rises/retards and yielding breads with well developed flavor and to the degree or lack of sourness I seek. I made 7 loaves of bread with various starters over the weekend, including a (Jewish style) rye bread recipe that began with a white starter that I fed rye for 2 refreshments before I started my poolish. The other 5 loaves were pure white starter & went into semolina/ white, anadama and oatmeal loaves. My only real rye starter is kept for a specific recipe I use rarely, but am fond of. I have never kept a whole wheat starter. Each of us has our favorites, I am sure, but do not scare anyone with the idea that budded or freshly ground wheat berries are required. They may yield great starters, but are not the only way to go. Boron |
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On 7 Apr 2005 09:40:06 -0700, "Will" >
wrote: > >Making a starter is easy. snip. >It is close to impossible to do >with white flour. Sir, I beg to differ. I have created many white flour starters over the years. There is nothing to it. I have used KA or Heckers and never had much trouble. Active, flexible in and adaptable to various recipes/ rises/retards and yielding breads with well developed flavor and to the degree or lack of sourness I seek. I made 7 loaves of bread with various starters over the weekend, including a (Jewish style) rye bread recipe that began with a white starter that I fed rye for 2 refreshments before I started my poolish. The other 5 loaves were pure white starter & went into semolina/ white, anadama and oatmeal loaves. My only real rye starter is kept for a specific recipe I use rarely, but am fond of. I have never kept a whole wheat starter. Each of us has our favorites, I am sure, but do not scare anyone with the idea that budded or freshly ground wheat berries are required. They may yield great starters, but are not the only way to go. Boron |
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On 7 Apr 2005 09:40:06 -0700, "Will" >
wrote: > >Making a starter is easy. snip. >It is close to impossible to do >with white flour. Sir, I beg to differ. I have created many white flour starters over the years. There is nothing to it. I have used KA or Heckers and never had much trouble. Active, flexible in and adaptable to various recipes/ rises/retards and yielding breads with well developed flavor and to the degree or lack of sourness I seek. I made 7 loaves of bread with various starters over the weekend, including a (Jewish style) rye bread recipe that began with a white starter that I fed rye for 2 refreshments before I started my poolish. The other 5 loaves were pure white starter & went into semolina/ white, anadama and oatmeal loaves. My only real rye starter is kept for a specific recipe I use rarely, but am fond of. I have never kept a whole wheat starter. Each of us has our favorites, I am sure, but do not scare anyone with the idea that budded or freshly ground wheat berries are required. They may yield great starters, but are not the only way to go. Boron |
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On 7 Apr 2005 09:40:06 -0700, "Will"
> wrote: >The trick, whether you use a water-flour slurry, a >water-flour paste, mashed berries, whatever... is to use fresh grain. >The older the flour, the harder it is. It is close to impossible to do >with white flour. Hi Will, This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I have assisted. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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On 7 Apr 2005 09:40:06 -0700, "Will"
> wrote: >The trick, whether you use a water-flour slurry, a >water-flour paste, mashed berries, whatever... is to use fresh grain. >The older the flour, the harder it is. It is close to impossible to do >with white flour. Hi Will, This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I have assisted. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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On 7 Apr 2005 09:40:06 -0700, "Will"
> wrote: >The trick, whether you use a water-flour slurry, a >water-flour paste, mashed berries, whatever... is to use fresh grain. >The older the flour, the harder it is. It is close to impossible to do >with white flour. Hi Will, This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I have assisted. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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Boron,
This is truly news to me... Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour and water? Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters? I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I could dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining an existing one. If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go. Will |
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Boron,
This is truly news to me... Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour and water? Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters? I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I could dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining an existing one. If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go. Will |
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Kenneth wrote:
> This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I > have assisted. > > All the best, Kenneth, I guess I stand corrected. You and Boron are the only folks I know who've done this. Perhaps the rest of RFS will come out of the woodwork and we'll discover that white flour actually works better. Who knows? I'll certainly give it another go. Will |
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Kenneth wrote:
> This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I > have assisted. > > All the best, Kenneth, I guess I stand corrected. You and Boron are the only folks I know who've done this. Perhaps the rest of RFS will come out of the woodwork and we'll discover that white flour actually works better. Who knows? I'll certainly give it another go. Will |
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On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:54:45 -0500, Will
> wrote: >If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and >water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go. > >Will Hi Will, PMJI, but "yes." I have made many starters from commercial white flour (usually KA-AP) and water for many years. I just mix up a small amount at 100%, cover it, put it aside at about 80F, and wait 24 hours. I then toss half, and refresh. After 2-3 days, I have a starter. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:54:45 -0500, Will
> wrote: >If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and >water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go. > >Will Hi Will, PMJI, but "yes." I have made many starters from commercial white flour (usually KA-AP) and water for many years. I just mix up a small amount at 100%, cover it, put it aside at about 80F, and wait 24 hours. I then toss half, and refresh. After 2-3 days, I have a starter. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:54:45 -0500, Will
> wrote: >If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and >water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go. > >Will Hi Will, PMJI, but "yes." I have made many starters from commercial white flour (usually KA-AP) and water for many years. I just mix up a small amount at 100%, cover it, put it aside at about 80F, and wait 24 hours. I then toss half, and refresh. After 2-3 days, I have a starter. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:07:09 -0500, Will
> wrote: >Kenneth wrote: > >> This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I >> have assisted. >> >> All the best, > >Kenneth, > >I guess I stand corrected. You and Boron are the only folks I know who've >done this. Perhaps the rest of RFS will come out of the woodwork and we'll >discover that white flour actually works better. Who knows? I'll certainly >give it another go. > >Will Hi Will, I am not saying that it works "better." Just that it works. I will also add that some of the most delicious breads I have ever made came from a technique described in the Billheux et. al. book called "Special and Decorative Breads." (It is, BTW, the book from which many more popular baking books are stolen.) In it, the authors describe a four day process using flour, water, and salt only. (Of course, there are critters in the flour, but those are not listed as an ingredient.) They start with a mix of a small amount of flour and water, ferment, refresh, repeat, building each time until on the fourth day, the loaf is baked. Every time I tried it, the loaves looked terrible, but tasted great. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:07:09 -0500, Will
> wrote: >Kenneth wrote: > >> This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I >> have assisted. >> >> All the best, > >Kenneth, > >I guess I stand corrected. You and Boron are the only folks I know who've >done this. Perhaps the rest of RFS will come out of the woodwork and we'll >discover that white flour actually works better. Who knows? I'll certainly >give it another go. > >Will Hi Will, I am not saying that it works "better." Just that it works. I will also add that some of the most delicious breads I have ever made came from a technique described in the Billheux et. al. book called "Special and Decorative Breads." (It is, BTW, the book from which many more popular baking books are stolen.) In it, the authors describe a four day process using flour, water, and salt only. (Of course, there are critters in the flour, but those are not listed as an ingredient.) They start with a mix of a small amount of flour and water, ferment, refresh, repeat, building each time until on the fourth day, the loaf is baked. Every time I tried it, the loaves looked terrible, but tasted great. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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Well, well, well...
I guess the mystery is gone for good now. Doughwizard, I hope you're tuned in. Your innocent rant has changed everything for me. Not only am I humbled, I am truly amazed. Any doofus can do this. Will |
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Well, well, well...
I guess the mystery is gone for good now. Doughwizard, I hope you're tuned in. Your innocent rant has changed everything for me. Not only am I humbled, I am truly amazed. Any doofus can do this. Will |
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![]() "Will" > wrote in message news:mailman.34.1112900106.218.rec.food.sourdough@ mail.otherwhen.com... > Boron, > > This is truly news to me... > > Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour > and water? > > Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters? > > I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it > really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I > could > dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of > grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining > an existing one. > > If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and > water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go. > > Will > I have several starters in the fridge, and all but one was started with white flour. Nothing but flour, water (and I use tap water, apparently it's pretty benign here) and a little time. |
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![]() "Will" > wrote in message news:mailman.34.1112900106.218.rec.food.sourdough@ mail.otherwhen.com... > Boron, > > This is truly news to me... > > Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour > and water? > > Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters? > > I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it > really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I > could > dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of > grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining > an existing one. > > If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and > water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go. > > Will > I have several starters in the fridge, and all but one was started with white flour. Nothing but flour, water (and I use tap water, apparently it's pretty benign here) and a little time. |
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![]() "Will" > wrote in message news:mailman.34.1112900106.218.rec.food.sourdough@ mail.otherwhen.com... > Boron, > > This is truly news to me... > > Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour > and water? > > Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters? > > I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it > really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I > could > dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of > grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining > an existing one. > > If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and > water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go. > > Will > I have several starters in the fridge, and all but one was started with white flour. Nothing but flour, water (and I use tap water, apparently it's pretty benign here) and a little time. |
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Will wrote:
> Kenneth wrote: > > >>This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I >>have assisted. >> >>All the best, > > > Kenneth, > > I guess I stand corrected. You and Boron are the only folks I know who've > done this. Perhaps the rest of RFS will come out of the woodwork and we'll > discover that white flour actually works better. Who knows? I'll certainly > give it another go. > > Will > noobie chiming in- my first starter was with white flour, some generic brand, and it works great. Dan w |
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Will wrote:
> Kenneth wrote: > > >>This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I >>have assisted. >> >>All the best, > > > Kenneth, > > I guess I stand corrected. You and Boron are the only folks I know who've > done this. Perhaps the rest of RFS will come out of the woodwork and we'll > discover that white flour actually works better. Who knows? I'll certainly > give it another go. > > Will > noobie chiming in- my first starter was with white flour, some generic brand, and it works great. Dan w |
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On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:54:45 -0500, Will >
wrote: >Boron, > >This is truly news to me... > >Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour >and water? Yes. > >Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters? Yes. > >I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it >really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I could >dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of >grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining >an existing one. > >If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and >water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go. > >Will Not much technique. I start with half a cup of flour & add water until it is the consistency of thick better. I let it sit out, covered and refresh it ever 2 - 3 days at first, then, when it gets going, I refresh at least once a day until it is established...this can be 2 -3 weeks or more. The trick is knowing when it *is* established. I can tell from how lively it is & how it smells. And, of course, how happy it is after it's been through my mixer with a lot of other flour, water & salt. By then, after I have used it & it has "proved" itself, I am likely to toss it into the back of the fridge and forget about it for a long time, while I am playing with my other starters. One of the FAQs has all sorts of details about beginning a starter and verifying its health it simple ways. ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-gro...dough/starters Boron |
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On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:54:45 -0500, Will >
wrote: >Boron, > >This is truly news to me... > >Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour >and water? Yes. > >Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters? Yes. > >I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it >really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I could >dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of >grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining >an existing one. > >If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and >water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go. > >Will Not much technique. I start with half a cup of flour & add water until it is the consistency of thick better. I let it sit out, covered and refresh it ever 2 - 3 days at first, then, when it gets going, I refresh at least once a day until it is established...this can be 2 -3 weeks or more. The trick is knowing when it *is* established. I can tell from how lively it is & how it smells. And, of course, how happy it is after it's been through my mixer with a lot of other flour, water & salt. By then, after I have used it & it has "proved" itself, I am likely to toss it into the back of the fridge and forget about it for a long time, while I am playing with my other starters. One of the FAQs has all sorts of details about beginning a starter and verifying its health it simple ways. ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-gro...dough/starters Boron |
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On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:32:50 -0500, Will >
wrote: >Well, well, well... > >I guess the mystery is gone for good now. > >Doughwizard, I hope you're tuned in. Your innocent rant has changed >everything for me. Not only am I humbled, I am truly amazed. Any doofus can >do this. > >Will We are all doofusses on this bus. Not to worry. I bet your method of making a starter yields something wonderful. I have a bag or two of Wheat Montana berries around and I'm likely to give it a try. I'm down to 7 starters now, what's one more to take care of? Boron |
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