I recently read a formula for making malt at home, and then kneading in a
teaspoon of it per bread loaf. The author stated that adding more than a
teaspoon would result in a less robustly-risen loaf.

I haven't tried this with sourdough, for two reasons. First, I just read
about it. Second, making malt is a pain in the butt.

For those who don't know, malt is germinated grain seeds, and most beer
brewers make it from barley. I see no reason why it could not be made from
wheat berries, and in fact German Weissen Bier is made from wheat.

The process involves washing and cleaning the grain berries, soaking them
in water to double their bulk, putting them into germination trays to allow
them to sprout roots, drying them, roasting them, and grinding them. The
germination dramatically increases their sugar content, so the ground
product (which tastes like the malt in malted milk) serves as a sugar
substite.

I normally do not put sugar in my sourdough, but I'm not against it. Maybe
the malt will give the bread a nice taste. Mine already tastes nice, but
I'll not complain about more niceness.

Do any of you have wisdom on the subject of adding malt to sourough?

Gonorio

Yes ....Occasionally we add malt: one or both diastatic and non
diastatic
The former for malty flavor and slight coloration of the dough
depending on the depth of malt roasting or color grade; the latter to
improve the enzymatic activity and supplies more fermentable sugar.s
But definitely malt additions whether diastatic or non diastatic will
confer some malty flavor in the bread than without it.
But be aware....most flours are already enzymatically balanced by the
flour mills with regards to diastatic activity.( either by fungal
enzyme or barley/wheat malt treatment).
Adding more malt can be detrimental... and the sourdough crittter are
not that greedy ...with the sufficient fermentable sugars already
present in the dough. so further addition may make the bread appears
darker when baked due to excessive Maillards reaction, and the bread
tends to shrink a lot after baking due to excessive dextrinization
during he baking process.( due to the rapid enzyme activity at the
start of the baking process) causing a loosening of the dough structure
making the bread looks wrinkled and even appear collapsed or perceived
(erroneously) as overproofed by some.
If you think that your flour needs it add it cautiously.
But if you really needs maltly flavor and you think that your flour is
already enzymatically balanced( i.e. it bakes with a good volume and
nice crust color) you have to add a well roasted ground malt free from
enzymatic activity or called in bakery/brewery parlance as non
diastatic malt flour.
And
You do not need to make your own malt, you can buy it from shops
specializing in home brewery supplies
Roy

Yes ....Occasionally we add malt: one or both diastatic and non
diastatic
The former for malty flavor and slight coloration of the dough
depending on the depth of malt roasting or color grade; the latter to
improve the enzymatic activity and supplies more fermentable sugar.s
But definitely malt additions whether diastatic or non diastatic will
confer some malty flavor in the bread than without it.
But be aware....most flours are already enzymatically balanced by the
flour mills with regards to diastatic activity.( either by fungal
enzyme or barley/wheat malt treatment).
Adding more malt can be detrimental... and the sourdough crittter are
not that greedy ...with the sufficient fermentable sugars already
present in the dough. so further addition may make the bread appears
darker when baked due to excessive Maillards reaction, and the bread
tends to shrink a lot after baking due to excessive dextrinization
during he baking process.( due to the rapid enzyme activity at the
start of the baking process) causing a loosening of the dough structure
making the bread looks wrinkled and even appear collapsed or perceived
(erroneously) as overproofed by some.
If you think that your flour needs it add it cautiously.
But if you really needs maltly flavor and you think that your flour is
already enzymatically balanced( i.e. it bakes with a good volume and
nice crust color) you have to add a well roasted ground malt free from
enzymatic activity or called in bakery/brewery parlance as non
diastatic malt flour.
And
You do not need to make your own malt, you can buy it from shops
specializing in home brewery supplies
Roy

>The former for malty flavor and slight coloration of the dough
>depending on the depth of malt roasting or color grade; the latter to
>improve the enzymatic activity and supplies more fermentable sugar.s

Duh!....should be ...diastatic for improvement of enzyme activity to
produce more fermentable sugars,; non diastatic just for flavor purposes

"Gonorio Dineri" > wrote in message =
.. .

> Do any of you have wisdom on the subject of adding malt to sourdough?

Yes, and I am very wise about that. It is already in the flour when
I buy it at the store. So I don't add any more.

"Roy" > wrote in news:1112384070.455234.124290
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

>>The former for malty flavor and slight coloration of the dough
>>depending on the depth of malt roasting or color grade; the latter to
>>improve the enzymatic activity and supplies more fermentable sugar.s
>
> Duh!....should be ...diastatic for improvement of enzyme activity to
> produce more fermentable sugars,; non diastatic just for flavor purposes
>

So, does that mean adding diastatic malt can extend the rising power of the
yeast?

Gonorio Dineri wrote:
> "Roy" > wrote in news:1112384070.455234.124290
> @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>>>The former for malty flavor and slight coloration of the dough
>>>depending on the depth of malt roasting or color grade; the latter to
>>>improve the enzymatic activity and supplies more fermentable sugar.s
>>
>>Duh!....should be ...diastatic for improvement of enzyme activity to
>>produce more fermentable sugars,; non diastatic just for flavor purposes
>>
>
>
> So, does that mean adding diastatic malt can extend the rising power of the
> yeast?

Well, first of all, the rise is not coming alone from the yeasts with
sourdough - somewhere it was written that up to 50 % of the CO2 can be
coming from the LB's - or something to that extent.

And - with malt, not only the rise is affected but the whole metabolism
of the critters seems to be working better - So, more sugar brings more
browning, more rise and differences in crumb. If you are able to notice
taste differences or not, they are there as well, you can bet on that.

I was curious about this a while ago and kind of documented it the

http://samartha.net/SD/images/BYDATE/02-08-14/

Since then, I always add a pinch of malted 6-row barley flour because
the white (wheat) bread flour I use does not have any. If I forget it,
it's noticeable.

And, while I am at it, for the doofus on this forum yelping about the
Carl's not performing to his liking; seems to me it's more based on the
individual's handling and maybe early childhood upbringing despite the
claim that it's been done "by the book". Doing sourdough needs a grain
of intuition. If it's missing - don't blame the recipe.

Carl's not getting sour? Duh! - sure does:

http://samartha.net/images/SD/BYDATE/02-01-26/

final dough goes from pH 5.10 to pH 4.52 in 1 1/2 hours

- no matter how much King Roy theorizes what beer yeast strain could do
what to affect some bakers in France and then trying to apply this to
Carl's.

Samartha

Samartha Deva > wrote in
news:mailman.1112409364.25063.rec.food.sourdough@w ww.mountainbitwarrior.c
om:

> Gonorio Dineri wrote:
>>
>> So, does that mean adding diastatic malt can extend the rising power
>> of the yeast?
>
> Well, first of all, the rise is not coming alone from the yeasts with
> sourdough - somewhere it was written that up to 50 % of the CO2 can be
> coming from the LB's - or something to that extent.
>
> And - with malt, not only the rise is affected but the whole
> metabolism of the critters seems to be working better - So, more sugar
> brings more browning, more rise and differences in crumb. If you are
> able to notice taste differences or not, they are there as well, you
> can bet on that.
>
> I was curious about this a while ago and kind of documented it the
>
> http://samartha.net/SD/images/BYDATE/02-08-14/
>
> Since then, I always add a pinch of malted 6-row barley flour because
> the white (wheat) bread flour I use does not have any. If I forget it,
> it's noticeable.
>
>
> Samartha
>


Lawdy-Momma, Samartha. Maybe I'm the dufus. I should have checked out
the answer on your web site *before* musing about it on sourdough.rec.

Yes, I figure you'll have that pound of malt around for most of the rest
of your lfe, Unless you find a use other than baking, such as stirring
up some chocolate malts or brewing up some beers for the family.

Thanks for the info, and for your fastidious kitchen-lab notes. I'd like
to chat more, but I've got carl's sourdough flapjack batter brewing. The
starter spent the night in my oven, bubbling maniacally and building a
puckery tang. Gonoria's gonna fall in love with me all over again when
she eats those flapjacks.

Gonorio

Jugito/Gonorio/Dinero wrote:

> Lawdy-Momma, Samartha. Maybe I'm the dufus. I should have checked out
> the answer on your web site *before* musing about it on sourdough.rec.

Another thing you might have done was search the rec.food.sourdough posting
archives. There are more than 10 pages of references to this subject. Often,
there is better information to be found there than in the FAQ's.

Samartha Deva wrote:
....
> Well, first of all, the rise is not coming alone from the yeasts with
> sourdough - somewhere it was written that up to 50 % of the CO2 can be
> coming from the LB's - or something to that extent.
Huh? You got a cite for this, Samartha? I've never read that the LB's
generated CO2. As far as I know, they make cycloheximides, not gas...


Dusty
--
Remove STORE to reply

Will wrote:

> Jugito/Gonorio/Dinero wrote:
>
> Another thing you might have done was search the rec.food.sourdough posting
> archives. There are more than 10 pages of references to this subject. Often,
> there is better information to be found there than in the FAQ's.

Were ie the link to rec.food.sourdough/archives?

Thanks, Joe Umstead

On 4/2/05 10:21 AM, "Joe Umstead" > wrote:

> Will wrote:
>
>> Jugito/Gonorio/Dinero wrote:
>>
>> Another thing you might have done was search the rec.food.sourdough posting
>> archives. There are more than 10 pages of references to this subject. Often,
>> there is better information to be found there than in the FAQ's.
>
> Were ie the link to rec.food.sourdough/archives?
>
> Thanks, Joe Umstead

Joe,

You can follow the threads on-line at:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.food.sourdough

In the upper right hand corner of the page (link above) there is a text
input box: "search this group...". It performs a text search on all of the
posts. Try searching "malt" for example. You will get posts back to the
mid-1990's.

It's a great feature for quick research.

Will


Will

Dusty wrote:

>Samartha Deva wrote:
>...
>
>
>>Well, first of all, the rise is not coming alone from the yeasts with
>>sourdough - somewhere it was written that up to 50 % of the CO2 can be
>>coming from the LB's - or something to that extent.
>>
>>
>Huh? You got a cite for this, Samartha? I've never read that the LB's
>generated CO2. As far as I know, they make cycloheximides, not gas...
>
>
It's been referenced here MANY times. I believe that "Bread Builders",
"Classic Sourdoughs From Antiquity", and Dr. Gaenzle have all commented
upon it. Either Dr. Gaenzle or "Bread Builders" made reference to an
experiment done using a pure lactobacillus culture with no yeast. It
rose, but not as much as a true sourdough culture.

However, my dim memory suggests that the source indicated less gas from
the bacteria than Samartha suggested.

A quick look at the google archives turned this up, from 1997:
*http://tinyurl.com/5zkkg*

You can of course go to
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.food.sourdough
and look for "bacteria produce gas" and find lots and lots of
information, much of it with citations.

Mike

Dusty wrote:
> Samartha Deva wrote:
> ...
>
>>Well, first of all, the rise is not coming alone from the yeasts with
>>sourdough - somewhere it was written that up to 50 % of the CO2 can be
>>coming from the LB's - or something to that extent.
>
> Huh? You got a cite for this, Samartha? I've never read that the LB's
> generated CO2. As far as I know, they make cycloheximides, not gas...

Oh man - can't know everything.

Heterofermentative (that's what LB SF's are) lactic acid fermentation
(and do):

C6H12O6 (glucose) -> CH3-CHOH-COOH (lactic acid) + CH3COOH/CH3-CH2OH
(acetic acid/alcohol) + CO2 <-----!!! (carbon dioxide)

(that's from the sourdough bible I use, please forgive me any typos)

But - this document, also printed in Dan Wing's Bread Builder's book:

http://samartha.net/SD/docs/DW-post1-4n.html#463

you should have studied by now.

You really disappoint me there. You probably fell victim of the yeast
industries propaganda and me thinks that listening to Alex Carey's
manuscript would greatly widen your horizon:

http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=4041

to see how endangered real sourdough usage is. Maybe someone gets a
patent soon and starts filing John Doe suits against infringers or they
gen-modify the LB's for single use. Then we would all have to secretely
grow your outlawed starters in the basement behind closed curtains (this
alone would be suspicious already, so it's gonna be closet growing time
in the dark). I think we need some general uprising soon to prevent this
from happening. Who wants to grow his starter in a dark closet?

I just hope that they will bring out the new show at
http://www.tucradio.org/new.html uncloaking the yeast corporations spin
with their yeast used by the pharaohs to promote unhealthy yeast
consumption and harming the American people.


Enjoy!

Samartha

Mike Avery wrote:
....
> It's been referenced here MANY times. I believe that "Bread
Discussions and exchange of opinions (which are easily found in *this*
forum) doesn't make for a factual structure.

> Builders", "Classic Sourdoughs From Antiquity", and Dr. Gaenzle have
> all commented upon it. Either Dr. Gaenzle or "Bread Builders" made
> reference to an experiment done using a pure lactobacillus culture
> with no yeast. It rose, but not as much as a true sourdough culture.
Neat! And most interesting...

> However, my dim memory suggests that the source indicated less gas
> from the bacteria than Samartha suggested.
>
> A quick look at the google archives turned this up, from 1997:
> *http://tinyurl.com/5zkkg*
>
> You can of course go to
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.food.sourdough
> and look for "bacteria produce gas" and find lots and lots of
> information, much of it with citations.

I musta missed the threads where that was discussed. Thanks for the links,
Mike. I'll be doing some research on it, now that I'm better
informed...(:-o)!


Dusty
--
Remove STORE to reply

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 16:21:17 GMT, Joe Umstead
> wrote:

>Will wrote:
>
>> Jugito/Gonorio/Dinero wrote:
>>
>> Another thing you might have done was search the rec.food.sourdough posting
>> archives. There are more than 10 pages of references to this subject. Often,
>> there is better information to be found there than in the FAQ's.
>
>Were ie the link to rec.food.sourdough/archives?
>
>Thanks, Joe Umstead

Hi Joe,

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.food.sourdough

HTH,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Jugito wrote:

>
> Lawdy-Momma, Samartha. Maybe I'm the dufus. I should have checked out
> the answer on your web site *before* musing about it on sourdough.rec.

Can't always be sourdoughly correct; stuff happens - and I have kind of
a weed-out filter on the first sourdough page; some folks see that title
page and move right along :-)

And - not doing this post would have been much less entertaining.

> Yes, I figure you'll have that pound of malt around for most of the rest
> of your lfe, Unless you find a use other than baking, such as stirring
> up some chocolate malts or brewing up some beers for the family.

There are Russian bread recipes which use significantly more malt - no
need to venture outside the sourdough realm to use more malted grain flours.

But true - with normal "pinches" per bake - I am down probably 1/2 lb in
what? - ~ 1 1/2 years by now. I am definitely planning to be around
longer than the other 1/2 lb usage based on pinched use.

With the Russian breads, if I ever have time to get to it, my guess is
that I would need to get more malted grain in a month or two.

Though, I don't believe you are the dough wizard-doofus I was thinking
of, but that's ok.


Samartha

Jugito wrote:

>> Yes, I figure you'll have that pound of malt around for most of the
>> rest of your lfe, Unless you find a use other than baking, such as
>> stirring up some chocolate malts or brewing up some beers for the
>> family.
>

I used to make a lot of Kaiser rolls and bagels, both with sourdough.
The Kaisers used 4.22% malt, the Bagels, 3.44%.

I went through 50 pounds of malt in anywhere between a week and a month,
depending on the time of year. That didn't include the malt used in the
bagels boiling water bath.

So, there are recipes that use malt. It adds to the taste and texture
of the breads. Even with sourdough breads.

Mike

Samartha Deva wrote:
> Dusty wrote:
>> Samartha Deva wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Well, first of all, the rise is not coming alone from the yeasts
>>> with sourdough - somewhere it was written that up to 50 % of the
>>> CO2 can be coming from the LB's - or something to that extent.
>>
>> Huh? You got a cite for this, Samartha? I've never read that the
>> LB's generated CO2. As far as I know, they make cycloheximides, not
>> gas...
>
> Oh man - can't know everything.
One can aspire to...(:-o)?

Some good links, thanks, Samartha.

....
> http://samartha.net/SD/docs/DW-post1-4n.html#463
>
> you should have studied by now.
So many books...so little time...so much bread to bake...(:-o)! I guess I
spent too much time baking and converting recipes back to SD to catch it
all...

> You really disappoint me there. You probably fell victim of the yeast
> industries propaganda and me thinks that listening to Alex Carey's

Not likely! I'm about the last person on this planet that would recommend
using commercial yeast. I don't spend a nanosecond of my time collecting
and converting old recipes to recapture the glory of commercial yeast. It's
SD all the way for me, baby.

> manuscript would greatly widen your horizon:
>
> http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=4041
Utter, unfettered, fact free, opinionated tripe! It wasn't worth 0.1 of the
36 seconds it took to download that garbage.

> to see how endangered real sourdough usage is. Maybe someone gets a
> patent soon and starts filing John Doe suits against infringers or
> they gen-modify the LB's for single use. Then we would all have to
> secretely grow your outlawed starters in the basement behind closed
> curtains (this alone would be suspicious already, so it's gonna be
Cool! I'm already set up for it...(:-o)!

> closet growing time in the dark). I think we need some general
> uprising soon to prevent this from happening. Who wants to grow his
> starter in a dark closet?
<snerk!>


Later all,
Dusty
--
Remove STORE to reply

Samartha Deva wrote:
> Dusty wrote:
>> Samartha Deva wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Well, first of all, the rise is not coming alone from the yeasts
>>> with sourdough - somewhere it was written that up to 50 % of the
>>> CO2 can be coming from the LB's - or something to that extent.
>>
>> Huh? You got a cite for this, Samartha? I've never read that the
>> LB's generated CO2. As far as I know, they make cycloheximides, not
>> gas...
>
> Oh man - can't know everything.
One can aspire to...(:-o)?

Some good links, thanks, Samartha.

....
> http://samartha.net/SD/docs/DW-post1-4n.html#463
>
> you should have studied by now.
So many books...so little time...so much bread to bake...(:-o)! I guess I
spent too much time baking and converting recipes back to SD to catch it
all...

> You really disappoint me there. You probably fell victim of the yeast
> industries propaganda and me thinks that listening to Alex Carey's

Not likely! I'm about the last person on this planet that would recommend
using commercial yeast. I don't spend a nanosecond of my time collecting
and converting old recipes to recapture the glory of commercial yeast. It's
SD all the way for me, baby.

> manuscript would greatly widen your horizon:
>
> http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=4041
Utter, unfettered, fact free, opinionated tripe! It wasn't worth 0.1 of the
36 seconds it took to download that garbage.

> to see how endangered real sourdough usage is. Maybe someone gets a
> patent soon and starts filing John Doe suits against infringers or
> they gen-modify the LB's for single use. Then we would all have to
> secretely grow your outlawed starters in the basement behind closed
> curtains (this alone would be suspicious already, so it's gonna be
Cool! I'm already set up for it...(:-o)!

> closet growing time in the dark). I think we need some general
> uprising soon to prevent this from happening. Who wants to grow his
> starter in a dark closet?
<snerk!>


Later all,
Dusty
--
Remove STORE to reply

Samartha Deva wrote:
> Dusty wrote:
>> Samartha Deva wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Well, first of all, the rise is not coming alone from the yeasts
>>> with sourdough - somewhere it was written that up to 50 % of the
>>> CO2 can be coming from the LB's - or something to that extent.
>>
>> Huh? You got a cite for this, Samartha? I've never read that the
>> LB's generated CO2. As far as I know, they make cycloheximides, not
>> gas...
>
> Oh man - can't know everything.
One can aspire to...(:-o)?

Some good links, thanks, Samartha.

....
> http://samartha.net/SD/docs/DW-post1-4n.html#463
>
> you should have studied by now.
So many books...so little time...so much bread to bake...(:-o)! I guess I
spent too much time baking and converting recipes back to SD to catch it
all...

> You really disappoint me there. You probably fell victim of the yeast
> industries propaganda and me thinks that listening to Alex Carey's

Not likely! I'm about the last person on this planet that would recommend
using commercial yeast. I don't spend a nanosecond of my time collecting
and converting old recipes to recapture the glory of commercial yeast. It's
SD all the way for me, baby.

> manuscript would greatly widen your horizon:
>
> http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=4041
Utter, unfettered, fact free, opinionated tripe! It wasn't worth 0.1 of the
36 seconds it took to download that garbage.

> to see how endangered real sourdough usage is. Maybe someone gets a
> patent soon and starts filing John Doe suits against infringers or
> they gen-modify the LB's for single use. Then we would all have to
> secretely grow your outlawed starters in the basement behind closed
> curtains (this alone would be suspicious already, so it's gonna be
Cool! I'm already set up for it...(:-o)!

> closet growing time in the dark). I think we need some general
> uprising soon to prevent this from happening. Who wants to grow his
> starter in a dark closet?
<snerk!>


Later all,
Dusty
--
Remove STORE to reply

Mike Avery wrote:
> Jugito wrote:
>
>>> Yes, I figure you'll have that pound of malt around for most of the
>>> rest of your lfe, Unless you find a use other than baking, such as
>>> stirring up some chocolate malts or brewing up some beers for the family.
>>
>>
>
> I used to make a lot of Kaiser rolls and bagels, both with sourdough.
> The Kaisers used 4.22% malt, the Bagels, 3.44%.
>
> I went through 50 pounds of malt in anywhere between a week and a month,
> depending on the time of year. That didn't include the malt used in the
> bagels boiling water bath.
>
> So, there are recipes that use malt. It adds to the taste and texture
> of the breads. Even with sourdough breads.
>
> Mike
>
Could you post the Kaiser`s recipy?

Mike Avery wrote:
> Jugito wrote:
>
>>> Yes, I figure you'll have that pound of malt around for most of the
>>> rest of your lfe, Unless you find a use other than baking, such as
>>> stirring up some chocolate malts or brewing up some beers for the family.
>>
>>
>
> I used to make a lot of Kaiser rolls and bagels, both with sourdough.
> The Kaisers used 4.22% malt, the Bagels, 3.44%.
>
> I went through 50 pounds of malt in anywhere between a week and a month,
> depending on the time of year. That didn't include the malt used in the
> bagels boiling water bath.
>
> So, there are recipes that use malt. It adds to the taste and texture
> of the breads. Even with sourdough breads.
>
> Mike
>
Could you post the Kaiser`s recipy (especially the dough-process)?

Dusty wrote:
[..]
>>manuscript would greatly widen your horizon:
>>
>>http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=4041
>
> Utter, unfettered, fact free, opinionated tripe! It wasn't worth 0.1 of the
> 36 seconds it took to download that garbage.
>
Hey - I'm glad you're doing well & are still the same...

- just checking ;-)

Samartha

Dusty wrote:
[..]
>>manuscript would greatly widen your horizon:
>>
>>http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=4041
>
> Utter, unfettered, fact free, opinionated tripe! It wasn't worth 0.1 of the
> 36 seconds it took to download that garbage.
>
Hey - I'm glad you're doing well & are still the same...

- just checking ;-)

Samartha

As many have said, a lot of flour has a little malt in it as a
conditioner. But I add malt sometimes for flavor. I buy malted grain at
the brew store (Moris Offer is my favorite) and grind it in my coffee
grinder; to me malt syrup doesn't taste as good. I add lots (up to 3T
per loaf) and haven't found it harms the texture as some claim. But
most recipes don't taste that great with malt. I love it with whole
wheat cranberry and walnut bread--rounds out the flavor. I also add
lots to Borodinsky rye, it's part of the "scalded porridge" flavor.

As many have said, a lot of flour has a little malt in it as a
conditioner. But I add malt sometimes for flavor. I buy malted grain at
the brew store (Moris Offer is my favorite) and grind it in my coffee
grinder; to me malt syrup doesn't taste as good. I add lots (up to 3T
per loaf) and haven't found it harms the texture as some claim. But
most recipes don't taste that great with malt. I love it with whole
wheat cranberry and walnut bread--rounds out the flavor. I also add
lots to Borodinsky rye, it's part of the "scalded porridge" flavor.

>theorizes what beer yeast strain could do
>what to affect some bakers in France and then trying to apply this to
>Carl's.
Why is Carl starter derived from French levain?
What about the brewers or beer yeast what does it has to do with this
Starter?
Roy

>theorizes what beer yeast strain could do
>what to affect some bakers in France and then trying to apply this to
>Carl's.
Why is Carl starter derived from French levain?
What about the brewers or beer yeast what does it has to do with this
Starter?
Roy

>But I add malt sometimes for flavor.
>I buy malted grain at
>the brew store (Moris Offer is my favorite) and grind it in my coffee
>grinder;
That is the enzymatically inert or diastatically impotent variety(
100% non diastatic). you are buying.
If you are adding non diastatic malt you can add heaps of it on your
dough with no ill effect;but not if you are using the diastatic type
malt flour.
It will be much different.then ....Just see for yourself how your dough
behaves.....if you add it indiscriminately without considering the
flour millers pretreatments of flour..
Fortunately most brew store have more inventory of non diastatic malt
then the diastatic version. In fact You can get variety of colors from
the non diastatic malt.depending how many color grade units you expect
;be it light yellow to golden then red to brownish malt,then to
really dark to black malt .
Roy

Is Maris Otter non-diastatic? I had figured all the whole grain malts
found in the bins were all active compared to the inactive powders.

Is Maris Otter non-diastatic? I had figured all the whole grain malts
found in the bins were all active compared to the inactive powders.

Jonathan Kandell wrote:
> Is Maris Otter non-diastatic? I had figured all the whole grain malts
> found in the bins were all active compared to the inactive powders.

I am not quite familiar with that particular brand ,but AFAIK whole
grain malts sold in brewery shops are usually inactive but others can
be active.
Who knows what you have purchased may no or may have just minimal
activity that even if you add lots of it will not affect the dough
performance.
You have to check that with the shop owner and if they have product
specification or ask them direactly if its enzymatically active(
diastatic) nor not.There is even a enzyme activity unit ( SKB values/
Farrand units/ Lintner value )to quantify the activity of diastatic
malts but many brewery shops don't have that kind of technical
understanding. They just sold malt as if it were ordinary store items
letting the customer to decide for himself what he want.
Powdered malts sold by specialist manufacturers are classified as
diastatic and non diastatic type. And many years back I have bought
ton quantities/container loads of this two malts for bakery premixes
formulations .
A good quality or first grade diastatic malt flour you only need a
maximum of a heaping teaspoon of such malt per kilogram of untreated
but (high falling number) flour, while second and lower grades have
decreasing enzyme activity that you need to use two heaping teaspoon
to more than a tablespoon for a kilogram of untreated flour.
Meanwhile the non diastatic malts are only for flavoring and coloring
purposes.
Roy

Jonathan Kandell wrote:
> Is Maris Otter non-diastatic? I had figured all the whole grain malts
> found in the bins were all active compared to the inactive powders.

I am not quite familiar with that particular brand ,but AFAIK whole
grain malts sold in brewery shops are usually inactive but others can
be active.
Who knows what you have purchased may no or may have just minimal
activity that even if you add lots of it will not affect the dough
performance.
You have to check that with the shop owner and if they have product
specification or ask them direactly if its enzymatically active(
diastatic) nor not.There is even a enzyme activity unit ( SKB values/
Farrand units/ Lintner value )to quantify the activity of diastatic
malts but many brewery shops don't have that kind of technical
understanding. They just sold malt as if it were ordinary store items
letting the customer to decide for himself what he want.
Powdered malts sold by specialist manufacturers are classified as
diastatic and non diastatic type. And many years back I have bought
ton quantities/container loads of this two malts for bakery premixes
formulations .
A good quality or first grade diastatic malt flour you only need a
maximum of a heaping teaspoon of such malt per kilogram of untreated
but (high falling number) flour, while second and lower grades have
decreasing enzyme activity that you need to use two heaping teaspoon
to more than a tablespoon for a kilogram of untreated flour.
Meanwhile the non diastatic malts are only for flavoring and coloring
purposes.
Roy

Samartha Deva wrote:
> Dusty wrote:
> [..]
>>> manuscript would greatly widen your horizon:
>>>
>>> http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=4041
>>
>> Utter, unfettered, fact free, opinionated tripe! It wasn't worth
>> 0.1 of the 36 seconds it took to download that garbage.
>>
> Hey - I'm glad you're doing well & are still the same...
>
> - just checking ;-)
Glad to have been of assistance, Sam...(:-o)!

D.

>
> Samartha

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