DRAFT 10/05/02 (revised 04/18/05)

There is a little nOObiness in each of us. But it is only life-threatening in
a few. How to avoid succumbing to nOObyism? Read some FAQ's, particularly the
Newcomer Tips. http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/newcomertips.html

nOObies:

o post comments/me-too's/wisecracks over/under full requote

o nitpick

o can't wait to take a thread off-topic

o post to anything off topic

o don't use, and can't seem to follow, links

o avoid FAQ's and archives

o start as advice-givers as soon as they find the newsgroup

o become professional after reading a book, or a chapter, or taking a course.

o figure on starting out with the Poilane or SF loaf, authentic pumpernickel,
etc.

o are frequently expert in culinary semantics, esp. french bakerspeak

o frequently are fishing for a reply which they know is the correct one

o have a bunch of real tangy starters in their fridge

o are fugitives from chat rooms

o by these activities, draw other nOObies to the NG, like flies

o should not read my posts

o (In Outlook Express: Message; Block Sender; Click!. Do it now!)

Whew, that should narrow it down! (Most nOObies have Outlook Express.)


Misc. occasional nOObie characteristics (may be of use in rating equivocal
cases):

o grow own starters

o highest sourdough expectation is pancakes

o fracture quoted lines and links (real messy margins)

o use bakers' yeast to make what they think is sourdough

o put/advise putting dairy products in sourdough cultures

o attempt/advise making sourdough bread in bread machines

o sometimes post rants about nOObie persecution

o humidify their ovens with ice cubes

o bake after a total rise time of less than 2 hours

o are unaware of the relationship between time and temperature for breadmaking
purposes

o enjoy punching their dough, sometimes as many as three "punchdowns"

o know exactly what is meant by "proof", "proofing", etc.

o love to inspire long queues of advice givers by posting incredibly stOOpid
questions

o ignore replies, keep posting new incredibly stOOpid questions

o want to sourdough everything -- challah, chocolate cake, cherry cobbler, etc.

o believe that the more stuff you put in dough, the better bread you will get.

o can maintain exact temperatures with a light bulb in a styrofoam box

o say their wife and kids can't get enough of their bread, which is wonderful

o complain about the FAQs -- e.g., "(they) are not up to date/full of
mistakes/etc."

o recommend bread-machine pre-mixed products for making sourdough

o repost FAQs (and all kinds of documents which could be located with links)

o reply to spammers, develop threads on spam posts

o know a lot more about Internet etiquette than I do

o cannot find their caps key


Find latest draft at http://www.prettycolors.com/bread_culture/noobiness.txt

"Joe Umstead" > wrote in message =
...

> [ ... ] ( http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F.../noobiness.txt )

> nOObies ... repost FAQs (and all kinds of documents which could be =
located with links)

Go ahead -- make my day.

-d.

"Joe Umstead" > wrote in message =
...

> [ ... ] ( http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F.../noobiness.txt )

> nOObies ... repost FAQs (and all kinds of documents which could be =
located with links)

Go ahead -- make my day.

-d.

Joe Umstead wrote:
> DRAFT 10/05/02 (revised 04/18/05)
>
> There is a little nOObiness in each of us.
>
> o cannot find their caps key
>

is this my 15 min of fame?

thx for the tips

Dan w

Joe Umstead wrote:
> DRAFT 10/05/02 (revised 04/18/05)
>
> There is a little nOObiness in each of us.
>
> o cannot find their caps key
>

is this my 15 min of fame?

thx for the tips

Dan w

Joe Umstead wrote:
> o know a lot more about Internet etiquette than I do

This one is true.

This site spends most of its time with a 'knowledgeable few' being
discourteous to the rest of us.

Ephraim F. Moya
http://moya.us/

Joe Umstead wrote:
> o know a lot more about Internet etiquette than I do

This one is true.

This site spends most of its time with a 'knowledgeable few' being
discourteous to the rest of us.

Ephraim F. Moya
http://moya.us/

efmoya wrote:

>Joe Umstead wrote:
>
>
>>o know a lot more about Internet etiquette than I do
>>
>>
>
>This one is true.
>
>This site spends most of its time with a 'knowledgeable few' being
>discourteous to the rest of us.
>
>
>
Without trying to be rude, this is a newsgroup, not a site. The
newsgroup is part of usenet.

Whether or not you access it through a web site or a mailing list is
another question altogether, but it remains a usenet newsgroup.

And neither a newsgroup nor a site have time to spend. Nor can they be
rude. Only people can be rude. Only people spend time.

If you feel someone is being rude, address them directly. Upbraid them
if it is needed.

Or find a more pleasant place to hang out.

Mike

efmoya wrote:

>Joe Umstead wrote:
>
>
>>o know a lot more about Internet etiquette than I do
>>
>>
>
>This one is true.
>
>This site spends most of its time with a 'knowledgeable few' being
>discourteous to the rest of us.
>
>
>
Without trying to be rude, this is a newsgroup, not a site. The
newsgroup is part of usenet.

Whether or not you access it through a web site or a mailing list is
another question altogether, but it remains a usenet newsgroup.

And neither a newsgroup nor a site have time to spend. Nor can they be
rude. Only people can be rude. Only people spend time.

If you feel someone is being rude, address them directly. Upbraid them
if it is needed.

Or find a more pleasant place to hang out.

Mike

This post is a VERY good example of my point.

Discourtesy by a 'knowledgeable few' who fancy themselves the newsgroup
police.

Why?

This post is a VERY good example of my point.

Discourtesy by a 'knowledgeable few' who fancy themselves the newsgroup
police.

Why?

You are always free to contribute and change what you don't like.

Searching google groups history of what your posts are makes it very
clear what is going on.

Samartha


efmoya wrote:
> This post is a VERY good example of my point.
>
> Discourtesy by a 'knowledgeable few' who fancy themselves the newsgroup
> police.
>
> Why?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.mountainbitwarrior.com/ma...food.sourdough
>
>

You are always free to contribute and change what you don't like.

Searching google groups history of what your posts are makes it very
clear what is going on.

Samartha


efmoya wrote:
> This post is a VERY good example of my point.
>
> Discourtesy by a 'knowledgeable few' who fancy themselves the newsgroup
> police.
>
> Why?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.mountainbitwarrior.com/ma...food.sourdough
>
>

efmoya wrote:

>This post is a VERY good example of my point.
>
>Discourtesy by a 'knowledgeable few' who fancy themselves the newsgroup
>police.
>
>Why?
>
I'm sure that insisting that people "answer the damn question" is a fine
example of the courtesy you wish to receive.

My note was in no way rude. It addressed the rudeness in your post,
which was probably based on ignorance.

By and large, people reap what they sow. What have you sown so far?

Granted, Dick was a bit hard on you. However, you didn't help things
after that.

Mike

efmoya wrote:

>This post is a VERY good example of my point.
>
>Discourtesy by a 'knowledgeable few' who fancy themselves the newsgroup
>police.
>
>Why?
>
I'm sure that insisting that people "answer the damn question" is a fine
example of the courtesy you wish to receive.

My note was in no way rude. It addressed the rudeness in your post,
which was probably based on ignorance.

By and large, people reap what they sow. What have you sown so far?

Granted, Dick was a bit hard on you. However, you didn't help things
after that.

Mike

Its no secret - I'm appalled by the discourtesy here.

Ephraim F. Moya
http://moya.us/

Its no secret - I'm appalled by the discourtesy here.

Ephraim F. Moya
http://moya.us/

efmoya wrote:
> Its no secret - I'm appalled by the discourtesy here.
>
> Ephraim F. Moya
> http://moya.us/
>
If you are really apalled, no one is forcing you to read this newsgroup
.. Please do go and find a group that meets your needs.
Ellen

efmoya wrote:
> Its no secret - I'm appalled by the discourtesy here.
>
> Ephraim F. Moya
> http://moya.us/
>
If you are really apalled, no one is forcing you to read this newsgroup
.. Please do go and find a group that meets your needs.
Ellen

I find it interesting that I'm asked to leave. Like high school bullies
shooing away a member of the 'out' group.

Well, I'm not going to leave. If you don't like what I say, don't read
my posts. I won't read your posts either.

Are there other newsgroups about sourdough baking?

Ephraim F. Moya
http://moya.us/

I find it interesting that I'm asked to leave. Like high school bullies
shooing away a member of the 'out' group.

Well, I'm not going to leave. If you don't like what I say, don't read
my posts. I won't read your posts either.

Are there other newsgroups about sourdough baking?

Ephraim F. Moya
http://moya.us/

In =
news:mailman.32.1114113102.6903.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
Mike Avery said to "efmoya"::

> Granted, Dick was a bit hard on you.=20

Jeez, Mike, gimme a break! I have not even=20
started on that case yet.

You're always giving me credit for stuff I=20
dint even do.

--
DickA

"efmoya" > asked in message =
ups.com...

> Are there other newsgroups about sourdough baking?

You might like
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sourdough/

They are all very nice over there, and it is moderated, so
there's little chance than anyone will be rude.

Dick Adams wrote:
> In news:mailman.32.1114113102.6903.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
> Mike Avery said to "efmoya"::
>
>
>>Granted, Dick was a bit hard on you.
>
>
> Jeez, Mike, gimme a break! I have not even
> started on that case yet.
>
> You're always giving me credit for stuff I
> dint even do.
>
> --
> DickA
>
>i have to stick up for DickA on this one- i don't think he flamed "emmoya" yet, probably should check google first though

Dan w

don't be a capitalist pig-- when emailing don't remove anything

"dan w" wrote=20

> i don't think (dicka) flamed "emmoya" yet

yep I dint

or "efmoya" whatever

> don't be a capitalist pig ...

not me danny boy no caps here

"dan w" wrote=20

> i don't think (dicka) flamed "emmoya" yet

yep I dint

or "efmoya" whatever

> don't be a capitalist pig ...

not me danny boy no caps here

dan w wrote:

> Dick Adams wrote:
>
>> In
>> news:mailman.32.1114113102.6903.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
>> Mike Avery said to "efmoya"::
>>
>>
>>> Granted, Dick was a bit hard on you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeez, Mike, gimme a break! I have not even started on that case yet.
>>
>> You're always giving me credit for stuff I dint even do.
>>
>> --
>> DickA
>>
>> i have to stick up for DickA on this one- i don't think he flamed
>> "emmoya" yet, probably should check google first though
>
Oops... my mistake. I'd confused the attributions. Dick flamed dan w,
not efmoya. Dick never, as far as I can tell, flamed efmoya.

However, efmoya's first message here was, "What a CrOcK!@ Answer the
damn question." Which really doesn't give him the moral high ground to
criticize others. And, it is surprising he hasn't really been flamed yet.

efmoya is continuing his winning ways in rec.food.baking - he posted the
same inane message 7 times at about 3 minute intervals. So far no one
has flamed him.... but I doubt he's winning friends and influencing
people there either.

Mike

Dick Adams wrote:

>
> Jeez, Mike, gimme a break! I have not even
> started on that case yet.

Hey - get going, make my day!

Samartha

Dick Adams wrote:

>
> Jeez, Mike, gimme a break! I have not even
> started on that case yet.

Hey - get going, make my day!

Samartha

Dick Adams wrote:

>
> Jeez, Mike, gimme a break! I have not even
> started on that case yet.

Hey - get going, make my day!

Samartha

Samartha Deva > wrote in
news:mailman.1114189631.8382.rec.food.sourdough@ww w.mountainbitwarrior.com:

> Dick Adams wrote:
>
>>
>> Jeez, Mike, gimme a break! I have not even
>> started on that case yet.
>
> Hey - get going, make my day!
>
> Samartha
>
>
>


CMIIW, but I believe the proper word (in Mexican) for people who behave
naughty and really do know better is:

"Bozito"

Samartha Deva > wrote in
news:mailman.1114189631.8382.rec.food.sourdough@ww w.mountainbitwarrior.com:

> Dick Adams wrote:
>
>>
>> Jeez, Mike, gimme a break! I have not even
>> started on that case yet.
>
> Hey - get going, make my day!
>
> Samartha
>
>
>


CMIIW, but I believe the proper word (in Mexican) for people who behave
naughty and really do know better is:

"Bozito"

I take offense to this email everybody has to start somwhere and just
because we don't all hang out in front of computer monitors all day
doesn't make somebody a "newby".
Joe Umstead wrote:
> DRAFT 10/05/02 (revised 04/18/05)
>
> There is a little nOObiness in each of us. But it is only
life-threatening in
> a few. How to avoid succumbing to nOObyism? Read some FAQ's,
particularly the
> Newcomer Tips. http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/newcomertips.html
>
> nOObies:
>
> o post comments/me-too's/wisecracks over/under full requote
>
> o nitpick
>
> o can't wait to take a thread off-topic
>
> o post to anything off topic
>
> o don't use, and can't seem to follow, links
>
> o avoid FAQ's and archives
>
> o start as advice-givers as soon as they find the newsgroup
>
> o become professional after reading a book, or a chapter, or taking a
course.
>
> o figure on starting out with the Poilane or SF loaf, authentic
pumpernickel,
> etc.
>
> o are frequently expert in culinary semantics, esp. french bakerspeak
>
> o frequently are fishing for a reply which they know is the correct
one
>
> o have a bunch of real tangy starters in their fridge
>
> o are fugitives from chat rooms
>
> o by these activities, draw other nOObies to the NG, like flies
>
> o should not read my posts
>
> o (In Outlook Express: Message; Block Sender; Click!. Do it now!)
>
> Whew, that should narrow it down! (Most nOObies have Outlook
Express.)
>
>
> Misc. occasional nOObie characteristics (may be of use in rating
equivocal
> cases):
>
> o grow own starters
>
> o highest sourdough expectation is pancakes
>
> o fracture quoted lines and links (real messy margins)
>
> o use bakers' yeast to make what they think is sourdough
>
> o put/advise putting dairy products in sourdough cultures
>
> o attempt/advise making sourdough bread in bread machines
>
> o sometimes post rants about nOObie persecution
>
> o humidify their ovens with ice cubes
>
> o bake after a total rise time of less than 2 hours
>
> o are unaware of the relationship between time and temperature for
breadmaking
> purposes
>
> o enjoy punching their dough, sometimes as many as three "punchdowns"
>
> o know exactly what is meant by "proof", "proofing", etc.
>
> o love to inspire long queues of advice givers by posting incredibly
stOOpid
> questions
>
> o ignore replies, keep posting new incredibly stOOpid questions
>
> o want to sourdough everything -- challah, chocolate cake, cherry
cobbler, etc.
>
> o believe that the more stuff you put in dough, the better bread you
will get.
>
> o can maintain exact temperatures with a light bulb in a styrofoam
box
>
> o say their wife and kids can't get enough of their bread, which is
wonderful
>
> o complain about the FAQs -- e.g., "(they) are not up to date/full of

> mistakes/etc."
>
> o recommend bread-machine pre-mixed products for making sourdough
>
> o repost FAQs (and all kinds of documents which could be located with
links)
>
> o reply to spammers, develop threads on spam posts
>
> o know a lot more about Internet etiquette than I do
>
> o cannot find their caps key
>
>
> Find latest draft at
http://www.prettycolors.com/bread_culture/noobiness.txt

doughwizard wrote:
> I take offense to this email

So - be offended, and?

If you're suffering because of a couple of typed words, it's definitely
not a problem of the typer but the interpreter.

This "you are hurting my feelings" BS going around is highly
manipulative, if you ask me. Maybe time to grow up for a change.


Samartha

I do other things than eat sleep and breath sourdough bread, which is
obviosly the only way that one can ever advance from noobieness, so a noobie
I will remain for the rest of my days. Most posters here are tolerant and
quite helpful to noobies. There are some posters on this newsgoup that are
somewhat cold to noobies. There is a small percentage that are really
offensive and delight in belittling noobies to no end, hence proving their
place in the rec.food.sourdough heirarchy. Get used to them, ignore them,
they are not going away, I believe they are musty old hermits with very
small privates, and this is their favorite outlet to vent their hostility
towards people that actually have a life...

I hope I didnt offend anyone superior to me.
hutchndi

"HUTCHNDI" > wrote in message=20
news:7niee.501$2J6.413@lakeread06...

> ... they are musty old hermits with very small privates, and=20
> this is their favorite outlet to vent their hostility towards people=20
> that actually have a life.

> I hope I didnt offend anyone superior to me.

Ha, ha, ha -- very funny!

You badmouthed inferior little nOObie runt!

--
Dicky