Desem Sourdough
 

Are there any sources for desem sourdough? I would like to purchase
some. There used to be a source called Baldwin Hill Bakery but they
seem to be no longer available, Any help appreciated.

There are some folks on the yahoogroup Wholegrain-baking which might
send you some.

On 7 Jul 2005 14:31:49 -0700, "Jonathan Kandell"
> wrote:

>There are some folks on the yahoogroup Wholegrain-baking which might
>send you some.

Thanks, I'll see if I can make contact.

"Mike Miruski" asked:

> Are there any sources for desem sourdough?

You could try burying a doughball of ordinary
sourdough in pile of flour.

That should work.

Why not?

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 22:23:24 GMT, "Dick Adams" >
wrote:

>
>"Mike Miruski" asked:
>
>> Are there any sources for desem sourdough?
>
>You could try burying a doughball of ordinary
>sourdough in pile of flour.
>
>That should work.
>
>Why not?

Thanks, I wasn't sure it could be done that way. I will give it a
shot.

Mike Miruski wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 22:23:24 GMT, "Dick Adams" >
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>"Mike Miruski" asked:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Are there any sources for desem sourdough?
>>>
>>>
>>You could try burying a doughball of ordinary
>>sourdough in pile of flour.
>>
>>That should work.
>>
>>Why not?
>>
>>
>
>Thanks, I wasn't sure it could be done that way. I will give it a
>shot.
>
>
Or get a copy of "Breads from Laurel's Kitchen" and follow her very
complete instructions. Sourdough tends to start very well with whole
grain flours.

Mike

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:48:28 -0600, Mike Avery
> wrote:

>Mike Miruski wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 22:23:24 GMT, "Dick Adams" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>"Mike Miruski" asked:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Are there any sources for desem sourdough?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>You could try burying a doughball of ordinary
>>>sourdough in pile of flour.
>>>
>>>That should work.
>>>
>>>Why not?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Thanks, I wasn't sure it could be done that way. I will give it a
>>shot.
>>
>>
>Or get a copy of "Breads from Laurel's Kitchen" and follow her very
>complete instructions. Sourdough tends to start very well with whole
>grain flours.
>
>Mike

I have already gone and got a copy but thanks.

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:48:28 -0600, Mike Avery wrote
(<mailman.9.1120834108.6853.rec.food.sourdough@mai l.otherwhen.com>):

> Mike Miruski wrote:
>
>> [quoted text muted]
> Or get a copy of "Breads from Laurel's Kitchen" and follow her very
> complete instructions.
>
The missing item in these instructions is "a good reason for trying to
make desem bread".

What does the desem route have to offer that would warrant the extra
effort?

Felix Karpfen
--
Felix Karpfen
Public Key 72FDF9DF (DH/DSA)

"Felix Karpfen" > wrote in message
. ..
> On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:48:28 -0600, Mike Avery wrote
> (<mailman.9.1120834108.6853.rec.food.sourdough@mai l.otherwhen.com>):
>
>> Mike Miruski wrote:
>>
>>> [quoted text muted]
>> Or get a copy of "Breads from Laurel's Kitchen" and follow her very
>> complete instructions.
>>
> The missing item in these instructions is "a good reason for trying to
> make desem bread".
>
> What does the desem route have to offer that would warrant the extra
> effort?
>
Bugger-all AFAICT! Might be worth trying if you lived in a covered wagon
travelling through the outback, but then, you'd probably be eating damper:-)
Graham

What's difficult about desem? Make a stiff dough of water and flour,
bury the dough-ball in a bucket of flour, cover with a cloth and wait
for it to ripen/ferment. Desem is, in essentials, no different from
sourdough, merely stiffer and lower-maintenance.

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 07:23:32 +1000, Felix Karpfen
> spewed forth :
>The missing item in these instructions is "a good reason for trying to
>make desem bread".
>
>What does the desem route have to offer that would warrant the extra
>effort?

+++++++++++++

Reply to the list as I do not publish an email address to USENET.
This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%.
Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account...

"Wooly" > wrote in message =
...

> ... Make a stiff dough of water and flour, bury the=20
> dough-ball in a bucket of flour, cover with a cloth and=20
> wait for it to ripen/ferment.

How long do I have to wait? =20

> Desem is, in essentials, no different from
> sourdough, merely stiffer and lower-maintenance.

If I peek and find nothing going on, do I need to
replace the flour in the bucket or reconstitute the
doughball?

Is it easier to keep that way than in a jar? Would
it be good to thread it with a string or ribbon so it
could be pulled out of the flour without a lot of=20
digging? Or maybe a stick like a shiskabob skewer?

--
Dicky

Tuesday, July 26, 2005 9:43 PM, Kenneth wrote:

> Might you know the purpose of the burying?

It is like a time capsule -- a defiance the temporal hegemony.

Kenneth, we are gaining on you. =20

But where will you be when we get there?

I think the burial accomplishes two things. One, it keeps the dough
ball away from the air and other opportunities for contaminantion
(Dick's famous nose puppies come to mind <g>). Two, it dries the
surface of the doughball rather quickly. This makes surface
contamination less likely since a dry surface doesn't readily support
mold or other nasties.

I have tried it both ways, burying and not burying, and burying works
better. One never sees slime on buried dough pieces.

One of the anecdotal mysteries, and after all what is desem without
mystery? is that one needs to bury the dough ball in 5 pounds of fresh
flour and it must be several inches deep and it must be below 65
degrees, and so forth. My starters have done fine buried in about a cup
of flour. They haven't shown any preference for deep burial, a modest
cover will do. Cool works better than warm. The one key thing I've
found is that the initial hydration of the doughball should be slightly
higher than a regular dough. So something in the 75% range is good.
Dryer makes for a very slow start and the dough ball loses moisture to
the surrounding flour so that must be factored in.

I did come across this interesting factoid in the yahoo group
wholegrain baking:

Jeffrey Sheinberg wrote:

"There are some good tips regarding starter maintenance in Wing &
Scott, be aware of this advice from Michael Ganzle contained
therein...

with greater than 30% inoculum, yeast growth will dominate
over Lactobacteria SF, eventually, the Lactobacteria SF will
die out, to be replaced by Lactobacteria Pontis."

So the relationship of cultured flour to new flour has more bearing
that one might have otherwise assumed.

Will

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 23:24:58 GMT, Wooly >
wrote:

>bury the dough-ball in a bucket of flour,

Howdy,

Might you know the purpose of the burying?

Thanks,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:43:08 -0400, Kenneth
> wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 23:24:58 GMT, Wooly >
>wrote:
>
>>bury the dough-ball in a bucket of flour,
>
>Howdy,
>
>Might you know the purpose of the burying?
>
>Thanks,


Some people prefer it to cremation.

Boron

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 07:37:08 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:43:08 -0400, Kenneth
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 23:24:58 GMT, Wooly >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>bury the dough-ball in a bucket of flour,
>>
>>Howdy,
>>
>>Might you know the purpose of the burying?
>>
>>Thanks,
>
>
>Some people prefer it to cremation.
>
>Boron

Howdy,

That is the best answer I have heard thus far...

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:

> That is the best answer I have heard thus far...


Here we are, of late, rediscovering the all sorts of interesting
things, like our ancestors didn't knead with machines and gasp: the
bread rose anyway. And you are diss'ing one of our most cherished
starters.

What if Craig said that was the best way to go?