This may seem as a silly question. But here goes anyway.

Would it be beneficial to maintain your starter at a hydration level that
matches the majority of breads you bake? My thinking is that you would not
have to make adjustments to your non-sourdough recipes' flour/water ratio.

>Would it be beneficial to maintain your starter at a hydration level that
>matches the majority of breads you bake? My thinking is that you would not
>have to make adjustments to your non-sourdough recipes' flour/water ratio.


A sourdough starter hydration can range from the consistency of a
normal bread dough to pan cake batter.
Take your pick
They have their own peculiarity and handling characteristics.
The other regulars here can provide you with more information about it
that is more suited to your home baking needs.

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 04:46:06 GMT, "Gordon Hayes"
> wrote:

>This may seem as a silly question. But here goes anyway.
>
>Would it be beneficial to maintain your starter at a hydration level that
>matches the majority of breads you bake? My thinking is that you would not
>have to make adjustments to your non-sourdough recipes' flour/water ratio.
>

Hi Gordon,

In a word, "No."

(And, I am assuming here that when you say "maintain" you
mean "store.")

Folks typically store only a tiny bit of their starter(s). I
keep three currently, and each is perhaps a tablespoon sized
lump of very low hydration "dough" in a sealed plastic jar
in the refrigerator.

When I anticipate baking, I take out one of the "lumps"
pinch off a small piece, moisten it, add a bit of flour, and
"wake it up." After a few cycles (at 100% hydration, that
is, with equal weights of flour and water) I am ready to
start building toward the final dough.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Gordon Hayes" > asked in message =
...

> Would it be beneficial to maintain your starter at a hydration level =
that
> matches the majority of breads you bake?=20

Possibly the question relates to the difficulty of calculating the =
"hydration"
when a preferment at particular (or unknown) hydration level and when =
the
rest of the dough is made to another level.

Well, you could try arithmetic, or use the calculator at =
http://samartha.net/SD/

Keeping a starter culture at dough consistency is a possibility, but it =
is=20
difficult to distribute such a culture in dough.

> My thinking is that you would not have to make adjustments to your=20
> non-sourdough recipes' flour/water ratio.

Adjustments requiring arithmetical calculations can cause serious=20
headaches. A simple answer is to go ahead and make your dough,
and, when the kneading is just about finished, adjust the composition
by adding flour to obtain the right consistency (your call). Adding=20
fluid is messier, so it is good to keep the dough loose during most of
the kneading.

(Then you could do what I do -- weigh the dough and calculate
the hydration from the weight and the total water content. Well,
that requires some arithmetic, but once you have done it, and=20
made a simple table, assuming you always use the same amount
of fluid (water), you never have to do it again. That way you check
your guesses about "right consistency".)

("Hydration" is a sloppy concept anyway, because one never=20
exactly knows the amount of moisture in the flour to start.)

--
Dicky

"Gordon Hayes" > wrote in message
...
> This may seem as a silly question. But here goes anyway.
>
> Would it be beneficial to maintain your starter at a hydration level ...
> <SNIP>
>

Thanks all for the quick replies. It was late at night when I posted the
question and I had just had a long day. Didn't quite phrase it correctly.
What I meant by 'maintain' was actually keeping it going on the counter. But
those who replied caught the gist of what I was asking.

I can see where the liquid starter would incorporate easier into the dough.
And yes, the math is what I was trying to avoid. Drats. Guess I'll have to
brush up on my formulas and math skills. :-)>.

Let's see. If I have 50 grams of 100% starter and I want 940 grams of 75%
dough, what should be my initial dough 'hydration' level. :-)>. Just a
hypothetical question. Not seeking an answer.

And yes, I realize that we do not know the moisture level of our initial
flour unless we have access to scientific meters. Ergo, the fine
tuning.:-)>. I started working in a grocery store bakery to gain some
commercial experience working with ovens and proofers. They use the parbake
method. Therefore I don't get the experience with actually mixing the dough.
But I can get somewhat of a feeling for the final dough consistency. Want to
open a bread bakery locally.

Was about to receive some tutoring with a local artisan baker. But
circumstances came up to delay this. I have tried the 'no-knead' method a
couple of times. It is amazingly simple. And amazingly time consuming. But
the end product is awesome.

Again, Thanks
Gordon

"Gordon Hayes" > wrote in message =
.. .

> ... I have tried the 'no-knead' method a couple of times. It is =
amazingly=20
> simple. And amazingly time consuming. But the end product is awesome.

Hot diggetty!! -- another first-time poster with awesome results.

Could you post and link a photo. We have been trying for years to get
a photo from the original "no knead" poster.

--
Dicky

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...

"Gordon Hayes" > wrote in message
.. .

> ... I have tried the 'no-knead' method a couple of times. It is amazingly
> simple. And amazingly time consuming. But the end product is awesome.

Hot diggetty!! -- another first-time poster with awesome results.

Could you post and link a photo. We have been trying for years to get
a photo from the original "no knead" poster.

--
Dicky

I don't have a digital camera and my scanner is down. But I will go back to
CVS and get another disposable digital camera. I plan on making some more
bread this w/e on Sunday. Will take some pictures and post them. I'm not an
expert. But I have fun with this breadmaking.

My Kitchen-Aid won't make 30+ pounds of dough at a time. And I don't have
access to a commercial mixer. So the 'no knead' fit like a glove. I am so
busy with a full-time job and a part-time one. I only have Sundays to make
bread for the week. And since I sell a few loaves now and then to friends, I
decided to give it a try and put the dough in the freezer. When I need a
loaf, I take a loaf out and thaw it overnight in the freezer. Get up early
and let it make it's final raise and then bake. For now it has to do.
Wondering about later when I get the opportunity to open our bakery. Won't
have to freeze it then though.

Gordon

Gordon Hayes wrote:

> Would it be beneficial to maintain your starter at a hydration level that
> matches the majority of breads you bake? My thinking is that you would not
> have to make adjustments to your non-sourdough recipes' flour/water ratio.

I do this, not for the reason you give, but because it:

(a) may[*] result in, or at least make it easier to obtain, a less sour
taste; this is "beneficial" by my standards but not necessarily by yours;

(b) slows down fermentation relative to higher hydrations, again
"beneficial" for me because I'm not able to monitor and look after my
starter on a 24x7 basis;

(c) maintains the starter automatically during bread building; this
maximizes the generational turnover (and hence evolution) of the
starter, whilst minimizing the risk of overaging the starter without
having to run two builds in parallel;

(d) keeps the starter in a bread-like environment, which may have
important evolutionary effects.

I think (d), which may also be a contributor to (a) [*the other factor
involved is smaller refreshments], is the most interesting reason. I
have precious little evidence to support it, because I only keep one
active starter. It does seem to be a lot healthier, and to produce
better tasting bread, than a year ago, but that's not a controlled
experiment. However, think about what happens if you maintain your
starter at high hydration. It evolves entirely in that environment,
perhaps also at fridge temperature, for years and years. Then, at the
very end of its life, it is called upon to raise bread at a lower
hydration and higher temperature. Might it not be shocked, or in some
other way suboptimal? It's a conjecture.

Of course, there are disadvantages to this approach. In addition to
those advantages for me that may be disadvantages for you, two others
spring to mind:

(i) if you don't want to "contaminate" your starter, you are limited in
what you can add to your bread; for instance, I have just made some
bagel dough without my usual (for yeasted bagels) malt-substitute,
because I couldn't be bothered to pull back the next starter early;

(ii) your starter is at risk every time you make bread; of course, you
could easily remedy this by reserving a "backup" piece.

Incidentally, it is quite easy to build on a firm starter if you first
add all the new water, let it mix a little bit, then add the flour and
immediately incorporate it to the point of no dry flour. What you want
to avoid is lumps of dryish flour in the dough, or a marbled dough of
old and new phases. It seems that minimizing the "phase range" at any
given point during mixing helps to achieve that. (So, you don't add the
new water to the new flour: these are the extremes of the "phase range".)

Thanks for your question! Writing this reply clarified my own thinking.

Greg

--
To get my e-mail address, remove a dot and replace a dot with a dash.

For completeness ...

> [*the other factor
> involved is smaller refreshments]

Also, refrigeration.

And a further advantage of pulling back the next starter from the
current loaf is that it:

(e) adds salt, slowing fermentation and acting as a preservative, at
exactly the moment when the next build may be delayed, e.g. whilst
eating the newly baked loaf, or going on holiday.

Greg

--
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