WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Well, I've now made 3 different batches of bread using the SDI Bahrain
culture; one with 100% whole Spelt flour and two using about a 50-50
mix of Rodgers Unbleached All-Purpose and the whole Spelt flour.

The first 2 batches were plain and simple sourdough, just flour and
water.

The last one was the SDI recipe for Cinnamon Raisin Nut bread.

The cultures seem to function properly, bubbling and getting frothy.
As I follow the recipe directions, all seems to going well, up until
the dough has been kneaded and placed in the pans to rise for the last
time prior to baking.

The dough will rise to the top or just barely above the tops of the
pans, and the next thing I know, it's fallen to below the tops of the
pan!!

I rise the dough in my oven with the light on; the temperature remains
pretty much in the range of 80 - 90 degrees, altho it may have fallen
to about 70 during the night last night.

I don't expect antone to come up with a solution to my problem, but am
hoping I can get some clue as to what I may be dojng wrong.

Thanks!

Don R.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

I need to add that the last 'plain' loaf I made has a rock hard crust
and is really dense. It is difficult to get the bread knife to
penetrate the crust and to cut thru the bread itself.

I tried to make the Cinnamon Raisin Nut bread somewhat lighter with
more moisture.

Thanks.

Don R.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 18:04:04 GMT, Don R.
> wrote:

>The dough will rise to the top or just barely above the tops of the
>pans, and the next thing I know, it's fallen to below the tops of the
>pan!!

Howdy,

Try it again, and time it.

Then, try to bake it about ten minutes before the point at
which it fell.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Just a shot in the dark, but I had a real problem with loaf pans a
while back, and after I got all stressed out about it, I found out that
I was using quick bread pans for trying to bake recipes measured for
bread. Quick bread pans (the ones most used for banana bread and such)
seem just a bit bigger but make alot of difference. The bread rises to
the top, you bake it, and it falls or gets a hollow crust. That was my
experience anyways. I like my crust pretty um, crusty, so thats what I
go for, so cant help with that....

hutchndi

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Don R. wrote:
>
>
> The dough will rise to the top or just barely above the tops of the
> pans, and the next thing I know, it's fallen to below the tops of the
> pan!!
>
If you assume a good SD culture, you are "over-proofing" or fermenting
past the optimim point. You need to scale and form your loaves earlier
in the process. I have found that some spelt, Durum, and rye mixtures
with regular wheat can be very tricky with a short window time between a
good rise and collapse.

Further, 90F is too warm and cinnimon can interfere with the
fermentation. I don/t know the recipe you are using, but cinnimon is
better used as a layer rather than incorporated into the dough.


Regards,

Charles

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

On 8 Dec 2005 10:40:44 -0800, "hutchndi" > wrote:

> Just a shot in the dark, but I had a real problem with loaf pans a
>while back, and after I got all stressed out about it, I found out that
>I was using quick bread pans for trying to bake recipes measured for
>bread. Quick bread pans (the ones most used for banana bread and such)
>seem just a bit bigger but make alot of difference. The bread rises to
>the top, you bake it, and it falls or gets a hollow crust. That was my
>experience anyways. I like my crust pretty um, crusty, so thats what I
>go for, so cant help with that....

Bingo!! Well, that seems address some of my problem.

The recipe does call for 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 2 1/2 pans. I'm using
9 1/2 x 5 1/2 x 3 pans.

Thanks.

Don R.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:20:07 GMT, Charles Perry >
wrote:

>Don R. wrote:
>>
>>
>> The dough will rise to the top or just barely above the tops of the
>> pans, and the next thing I know, it's fallen to below the tops of the
>> pan!!
>>
>If you assume a good SD culture, you are "over-proofing" or fermenting
>past the optimim point. You need to scale and form your loaves earlier
>in the process. I have found that some spelt, Durum, and rye mixtures
>with regular wheat can be very tricky with a short window time between a
>good rise and collapse.

I'm noticing the culture doesn't have quite what I would call
"bubbles" in it when it's working. It appears to have more what I'd
call "spaces" in it; irregular shaped, rather than the spherical shape
of bubbles. Don't know if that makes any sense to you, but that's the
best I can describe it.

>Further, 90F is too warm and cinnimon can interfere with the
>fermentation. I don/t know the recipe you are using, but cinnimon is
>better used as a layer rather than incorporated into the dough.

Yes, that's also the way I'm used to seeing it used, as a layer.
However, this recipe not only calls for 1/4 c. ground cinnamon mixed
into the dough, with the nuts and raisins, but also 2 tbs. mixed with
sugar to be used as a layer on the rolled out dough which is then
rolled up and placed in the pan.

Thanks.


>
>
>Regards,
>
>Charles
Don R.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005, Don R. wrote:

> On 8 Dec 2005 10:40:44 -0800, "hutchndi" > wrote:
>
> > Just a shot in the dark, but I had a real problem with loaf pans a
> >while back, and after I got all stressed out about it, I found out that
> >I was using quick bread pans for trying to bake recipes measured for
> >bread. Quick bread pans (the ones most used for banana bread and such)
> >seem just a bit bigger but make alot of difference. The bread rises to
> >the top, you bake it, and it falls or gets a hollow crust. That was my
> >experience anyways. I like my crust pretty um, crusty, so thats what I
> >go for, so cant help with that....
>
> Bingo!! Well, that seems address some of my problem.
>
> The recipe does call for 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 2 1/2 pans. I'm using
> 9 1/2 x 5 1/2 x 3 pans.

Yes - your pans have quite a bit more volume than called for.

When you wait until the dough rises to the top of the pans, it's gone past
the optimum point, and is ready to collapse.

Try smaller pans, and bake as soon as it rises to the top. You seem to
have plenty of rising power, so watch that it doesn't spring and overflow
the pan, when it hits the hot oven!

Dave

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:36:38 -0800, Dave Bell
> wrote:

>On Thu, 8 Dec 2005, Don R. wrote:
>
>> On 8 Dec 2005 10:40:44 -0800, "hutchndi" > wrote:
>>
>> > Just a shot in the dark, but I had a real problem with loaf pans a
>> >while back, and after I got all stressed out about it, I found out that
>> >I was using quick bread pans for trying to bake recipes measured for
>> >bread. Quick bread pans (the ones most used for banana bread and such)
>> >seem just a bit bigger but make alot of difference. The bread rises to
>> >the top, you bake it, and it falls or gets a hollow crust. That was my
>> >experience anyways. I like my crust pretty um, crusty, so thats what I
>> >go for, so cant help with that....
>>
>> Bingo!! Well, that seems address some of my problem.
>>
>> The recipe does call for 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 2 1/2 pans. I'm using
>> 9 1/2 x 5 1/2 x 3 pans.
>
>Yes - your pans have quite a bit more volume than called for.
>
>When you wait until the dough rises to the top of the pans, it's gone past
>the optimum point, and is ready to collapse.
>
>Try smaller pans, and bake as soon as it rises to the top. You seem to
>have plenty of rising power, so watch that it doesn't spring and overflow
>the pan, when it hits the hot oven!
>
>Dave

Since I first responded to "hutchndi" >, I got to
thinking about pan sizes . . . .

I don't understand why the pan size should have much bearing on the
loaf. If I use a larger than specified pan size and place a larger
piece of dough in the pan, why wouldn't that work just as well as
using a smaller pan and a smaller piece of dough?

Thanks.

Don R.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Don R. wrote:

>
> ...I'm noticing the culture doesn't have quite what I would call
> "bubbles" in it when it's working....

Make sure your starter is good. If your starter won't rise -your bread
won't. If you mix some starter thicker than batter, but thinner than
dough and place it in a straight walled container such as a small spice
container, it should more than double in height.
>
>
> ...his recipe not only calls for 1/4 c. ground cinnamon mixed
> into the dough,...
>
Sounds like a lot of cinnamon in the dough to me. I would check that
against similar recipes elsewhere.

Regards,

Charles

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Don R. wrote:

"I don't understand why the pan size should have much bearing on the
loaf. If I use a larger than specified pan size and place a larger
piece of dough in the pan, why wouldn't that work just as well as
using a smaller pan and a smaller piece of dough?"

Actually I dint know you were using a "larger than specified" amount
of dough, I thought you may have been using the smaller recipe for a
bigger pan. If you did figure a larger dough weight for your pans, and
you are still having problems, you could still be overproofing in an
earlier stage and not compensating. Do you overproof your sponge stage
and then possibly not incorporate enough new food (flour) into the
final dough to keep the yeasties fed and all powered up, letting them
crash before they finish the job? Thats been one of my downfalls too. I
dont really use loafpans except for an occasional experimentation, not
the type of bread I am after, there are others with alot more
experience here.

hutchndi

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Don R. wrote:
> I need to add that the last 'plain' loaf I made has a rock hard crust
> and is really dense. It is difficult to get the bread knife to
> penetrate the crust and to cut thru the bread itself.

That sounds more like a not-enough-oil problem than a not-risen-enough
problem.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Don R. wrote:
> On 8 Dec 2005 10:40:44 -0800, "hutchndi" > wrote:
>
> > Just a shot in the dark, but I had a real problem with loaf pans a
> >while back, and after I got all stressed out about it, I found out that
> >I was using quick bread pans for trying to bake recipes measured for
> >bread. Quick bread pans (the ones most used for banana bread and such)
> >seem just a bit bigger but make alot of difference. The bread rises to
> >the top, you bake it, and it falls or gets a hollow crust. That was my
> >experience anyways. I like my crust pretty um, crusty, so thats what I
> >go for, so cant help with that....
>
> Bingo!! Well, that seems address some of my problem.
>
> The recipe does call for 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 2 1/2 pans. I'm using
> 9 1/2 x 5 1/2 x 3 pans.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Don R.
>

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Don R. wrote:
> On 8 Dec 2005 10:40:44 -0800, "hutchndi" > wrote:
>
> > Just a shot in the dark, but I had a real problem with loaf pans a
> >while back, and after I got all stressed out about it, I found out that
> >I was using quick bread pans for trying to bake recipes measured for
> >bread. Quick bread pans (the ones most used for banana bread and such)
> >seem just a bit bigger but make alot of difference. The bread rises to
> >the top, you bake it, and it falls or gets a hollow crust. That was my
> >experience anyways. I like my crust pretty um, crusty, so thats what I
> >go for, so cant help with that....
>
> Bingo!! Well, that seems address some of my problem.
>
> The recipe does call for 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 2 1/2 pans. I'm using
> 9 1/2 x 5 1/2 x 3 pans.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Don R.
>

Using those dimensions, that is 64% more pan volume than what was
called for. Hard to believe that would produce so much more volume.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

On 8 Dec 2005 22:17:25 -0800, "hutchndi" > wrote:

>Don R. wrote:
>
>"I don't understand why the pan size should have much bearing on the
>loaf. If I use a larger than specified pan size and place a larger
>piece of dough in the pan, why wouldn't that work just as well as
>using a smaller pan and a smaller piece of dough?"
>
> Actually I dint know you were using a "larger than specified" amount
>of dough, I thought you may have been using the smaller recipe for a
>bigger pan.

Actually, I -was- using the smaller recipe in the larger pan. What I
was suggesting in my message was that I could use a larger portion of
dlough in the larger pan rather than buying a new supply of smaller
pans.

>If you did figure a larger dough weight for your pans, and
>you are still having problems, you could still be overproofing in an
>earlier stage and not compensating. Do you overproof your sponge stage
>and then possibly not incorporate enough new food (flour) into the
>final dough to keep the yeasties fed and all powered up, letting them
>crash before they finish the job? Thats been one of my downfalls too. I
>dont really use loafpans except for an occasional experimentation, not
>the type of bread I am after, there are others with alot more
>experience here.

I'm not, yet, familiar with the term "overproofing". Don't know the
difference bvetween "overproofing" and "underproofing", sorry to say.

Appreciate your input, Hutch!

Don R.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 23:09:22 -0800, Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to
send > wrote:

>Don R. wrote:
>> I need to add that the last 'plain' loaf I made has a rock hard crust
>> and is really dense. It is difficult to get the bread knife to
>> penetrate the crust and to cut thru the bread itself.
>
>That sounds more like a not-enough-oil problem than a not-risen-enough
>problem.

OIL!!! Who uses oil???? ;-)



Don R.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 23:15:59 GMT, Charles Perry >
wrote:

>Don R. wrote:
>
>>
>> ...I'm noticing the culture doesn't have quite what I would call
>> "bubbles" in it when it's working....
>
>Make sure your starter is good. If your starter won't rise -your bread
>won't. If you mix some starter thicker than batter, but thinner than
>dough and place it in a straight walled container such as a small spice
>container, it should more than double in height.

I haven't gotten to where I only use small portions of starter.
However, in using a 2-litre container, and feeding with 3/4 c. flour
to 1 c. water (or vice versa, depending on the consistency), the
starter is now doubling in about 3 hours. So, THAT part of the problem
seems to have been resolved.

Thanks!

Don R.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Don R. wrote:
>>
>>That sounds more like a not-enough-oil problem than a not-risen-enough
>>problem.
>
> OIL!!! Who uses oil???? ;-)

I rest my case.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

"Don R." > wrote in message
...
>
> I'm not, yet, familiar with the term "overproofing". Don't know the
> difference bvetween "overproofing" and "underproofing", sorry to say.

Well Don, I will try to remedy that, though I will probably get corrected.
Most of the places I read about this stuff say something like "OK now proof
your starter until its really active" or "proof for 8 hours at 75 degrees"
or "underproof the dough just a bit before baking" , like proofing is
something you have to know how to do. Proofing is basically just letting the
dough do what its going to do anyway. Actually, unless your dough is frozen
or all the yeasties are dead, proofing is going to happen whether you do
nothing at all or if you stress out about it, which I usually have done
anyways. From the minute you let your stuff get to work, feeding it and
giving it a little warmth, proofing begins, and it doesnt end until the high
temps in your oven finally kill off all the organisms you have working for
you in the dough. Eating, multiplying, making flavor and gas, thats what
those little buggers do, and thats what they will continue to do all by
themselves. Unless of course something happens to stop the process, like
running out of food. When the food supply gets used up, we call the dough
overproofed, spent, the yeast cant create more gas to raise your bread. If
you use up all your available food in an earlier stage (sponge) and dont add
enough later(dough), the dough will over proof (run out of food) and stop
rising when you need it most. The trick is to learn to bake your bread at a
point when the most flavor has developed, but you still have enough food
(usable flour) in the dough to keep your yeasties working. Underproofing,
thats just the opposite. If you use your starter before it is fully active,
it would still work, but it would just take longer. If you bake it while it
still has allot of proofing to do, like it hasnt risen nearly enough, then
its going to grow like crazy and split at the seams.

Probably not really the best way to explain it, but I am just getting over
newbiness myself. Good luck...

hutchndi

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

e:
> > OIL!!! Who uses oil???? ;-)


Apparently quite a few, though they are not the busiest posters here. This
group is about sourdough right? Its not about exclusivly making artisan
bread or french bread or any kind of bread other than bread (or whatever)
being made with sourdough, so if anybody wants to use oil, or sugar, or
chocolate etc, hey whatever floats your boat. Same should go for how long
one should proof before making bread, its personal preference, other than
suggestions to get a certain result. While I (so far) dislike cold start
bakes, plenty swear by them. I just revisited Joans Banneton Loaf which is
one of the original webpages that got me interested in sourdough, straight
dough approach, she let the dough rise only once, and look at all the stuff
she puts in there. The bread still looks pretty darn good. Might even try
it.

hutchndi

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

hutchndi wrote:

> Apparently quite a few, though they are not the busiest posters here. This
> group is about sourdough right? Its not about exclusivly making artisan
> bread or french bread or any kind of bread other than bread (or whatever)
> being made with sourdough, so if anybody wants to use oil, or sugar, or
> chocolate etc, hey whatever floats your boat. Same should go for how long


I wouldn't know the specific differences between an artisan loaf and a
french loaf if you beat me over the head with it, and I don't really
care. I just tweak recipes (used as springboads) until I find what I
like and what works for me and don't worry about what to call it.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send" >
wrote in message ...
....
> I wouldn't know the specific differences between an artisan loaf
> and a french loaf if you beat me over the head with it, and I
> don't really care. I just tweak recipes (used as springboads)
> until I find what I like and what works for me and don't worry
> about what to call it.
A lady after my own heart!

That's just about the way I do it, Melinda. For me, if a particular
recipe for bread has a name, it's purely out of convenience. You
could call it "Ralph" for all I care...

And, in addition to enjoying tweaking a recipe to get what I want
(well...sometimes), I like to tweak the tails of our more "gadget
oriented" bakers as well. Now *that* is really phun...(:-o)!


Dusty

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Dusty Bleher wrote:
> "Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send" >
> wrote in message ...
> ...
>> I wouldn't know the specific differences between an artisan loaf
>> and a french loaf if you beat me over the head with it, and I
>> don't really care. I just tweak recipes (used as springboads)
>> until I find what I like and what works for me and don't worry
>> about what to call it.
> A lady after my own heart!
>
> That's just about the way I do it, Melinda. For me, if a particular
> recipe for bread has a name, it's purely out of convenience. You
> could call it "Ralph" for all I care...
>
> And, in addition to enjoying tweaking a recipe to get what I want
> (well...sometimes), I like to tweak the tails of our more "gadget
> oriented" bakers as well. Now *that* is really phun...(:-o)!

That's right. You can always use the Phasmotronic 870 Growth Ray to get a
spectacular rise from your dough. But you have to be very careful not to
let it go astray and focus on cockroaches that are feeding on the flour you
spilled on the floor. This has been known to result in eight foot roaches.
Fortunately, only the wealthiest gadget fanatics can afford to run this
risk.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send wrote:

> I wouldn't know the specific differences between an artisan loaf and a
> french loaf if you beat me over the head with it,

Didn't you say you're Bay area if not City itself? (not one of the ones
at the airport SFO, if I remember). When I was a kid, we never called
sourdough "sourdough" but "french bread." That's maybe where the
confusion is coming from.

B/

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send wrote:


> I wouldn't know the specific differences between an artisan loaf and a
> french loaf if you beat me over the head with it,

PS: and "french bread" didn't have oil in it. Just flour, water,
starter, and salt.

B/

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

er" > wrote in message
...

For me, if a particular
> recipe for bread has a name, it's purely out of convenience. You
> could call it "Ralph" for all I care...
>

Dusty good to see you. I will be looking for Ralph bread at the innerlodge.
Always find great tips there. I especially like this one:

Mark Shepard's: Simple Sourdough. Although Mark & I disagree with his
culture generation methods, they do and will work. It is an excellent
write-up of his simple, earthy methods, which should be required reading for
all of the anal retentives on some of the newsgroups I frequent...

Ha!

hutchndi

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

"hutchndi" > wrote in message
news:OQAnf.11740$fz5.406@dukeread04...
....
> Dusty good to see you. I will be looking for Ralph bread at the
> innerlodge.
As it's always good to hear from you, my friend...

> Always find great tips there. I especially like this one:
>
> Mark Shepard's: Simple Sourdough. Although Mark & I disagree with
> his
> culture generation methods, they do and will work. It is an
> excellent
> write-up of his simple, earthy methods, which should be required
> reading for
> all of the anal retentives on some of the newsgroups I frequent...
>
> Ha!
Heh, heh... As it happens, I went there, and found out that the
link I had didn't work! So as soon as I fix that, I'll see about
getting the "Ralph" recipe posted...(:-o)!

What really frosts me is that I ran a 'Validate Hyperlinks' tool,
and it didn't find squat! Now I gotta go and figure out just what
that's supposed to do for me...<big sigh!>

Anyway, have fun! Enjoy your baking! Try not to spend all of your
"dough" on gadgets...(:-o)! And give the missus a schleck for me...


L8r all,
Dusty


>
> hutchndi
>
>

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Brian Mailman wrote:
>
> Didn't you say you're Bay area if not City itself? (not one of the ones
> at the airport SFO, if I remember). When I was a kid, we never called
> sourdough "sourdough" but "french bread." That's maybe where the
> confusion is coming from.

I grew up just north of Pennsylvania Dutch country but have spent most
of my adult life here. I also studied French for 8 years and learned a
lot about bread in France.

There is sweet (non-sourdough) French bread, and there is sour[dough]
French bread.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Brian Mailman wrote:
>
> PS: and "french bread" didn't have oil in it. Just flour, water,
> starter, and salt.

Yes, but if Don (who I have known for over a decade) is saying that his
crust is too tough, either he is not using enough water or he needs a
touch of oil in the dough to soften it.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send wrote:

> Yes, but if Don (who I have known for over a decade) is saying that his
> crust is too tough, either he is not using enough water or he needs a
> touch of oil in the dough to soften it.

Possible. But I'd look into the salt ratio.

Will

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send wrote:

> Brian Mailman wrote:
>>
>> Didn't you say you're Bay area if not City itself? (not one of the ones
>> at the airport SFO, if I remember). When I was a kid, we never called
>> sourdough "sourdough" but "french bread." That's maybe where the
>> confusion is coming from.

(snip)

> There is sweet (non-sourdough) French bread, and there is sour[dough]
> French bread.

Yes, I'm aware of that. I don't know how to say what I said in the
first paragraph any differently.

B/

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

lol, Yeah, What's wrong with a little oil?

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:00:09 -0800, Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to
send > wrote:

>Brian Mailman wrote:
>>
>> PS: and "french bread" didn't have oil in it. Just flour, water,
>> starter, and salt.
>
>Yes, but if Don (who I have known for over a decade) is saying that his
>crust is too tough, either he is not using enough water or he needs a
>touch of oil in the dough to soften it.

Right! Melinda and I lived about 3 miles apart for quite a few years.
Now, I'm on the west coast of BC and she's still stuck in crowded,
expensive, hot California!! Neener, neener, Melinda!

As to my bread . . . I think it is too obvious that I short change the
bread as far as water is concerned. The sharpest bread knife tends to
slip off the crust. I'll try to do better . . .

Cheers.


Don R.

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

Don R wrote:

"As to my bread . . . I think it is too obvious that I short change the

bread as far as water is concerned. The sharpest bread knife tends to
slip off the crust. I'll try to do better . . ."




Dont be too sure. I have used some pretty wet dough, even ciabatta,
and still got the crust I strive for, the same one you are trying to
avoid, using high heat, tiles, and (early)steam. I did just find while
trying Joans Banneton recipe that the crust came out alot softer
though, it cuts very easily and doesnt crunch, if thats what you want.
I guess I used about 1-1/2 teaspoons per loaf. Like you I normally dont
use any oil, so I would say that made the difference.

hutchndi

WHY WON'T MY BREAD RISE????
 

"hutchndi" > wrote in message
oups.com...


> I guess I used about 1-1/2 teaspoons per loaf. >

Olive oil that is....