I'm going to culinary school but I need a little help with understanding
Baker's Percentage. If I'm given the total weight and the total percentage,
and given that the weight of all the flours is 100%, How much does the sum
of all the flours weigh?

Do I add up the total percentage and divide that by the combined flour
(100%) percentage? Then I do something with the total weight? Could
somebody please explain? Thanks!

Rich

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:45:07 GMT, "Rich Hollenbeck"
> wrote:

>I'm going to culinary school but I need a little help with understanding
>Baker's Percentage. If I'm given the total weight and the total percentage,
>and given that the weight of all the flours is 100%, How much does the sum
>of all the flours weigh?
>
>Do I add up the total percentage and divide that by the combined flour
>(100%) percentage? Then I do something with the total weight? Could
>somebody please explain? Thanks!
>
>Rich
>

Hi Rich,

I read your post a few times, but am having trouble
understanding just what you are asking.

Bakers' percentage is just the proportion (by weight) of the
various ingredients to the total weight of the flour. Note
that it is NOT in proportion to the total weight of the
dough.

So, for 100 pounds of flour, one might use 2 pounds of salt.
That would be called "2% salt."

Again, for 100 pounds of flour, one might use 65 pounds of
water. That would be called 65% hydration.

Beyond that, I don't know quite what you need, so perhaps
you could say it another way.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:

> So, for 100 pounds of flour, one might use 2 pounds of salt.
> That would be called "2% salt."
>
> Again, for 100 pounds of flour, one might use 65 pounds of
> water. That would be called 65% hydration.
>
> Beyond that, I don't know quite what you need, so perhaps
> you could say it another way.

Perhaps he's getting a quiz question like:

You want to make 100 pounds of dough, your hydration is 65% and your
salt is 2%. How much flour do you need?

x +.65x+.02x =100 meaning: flour at 100%+ water at 65% + salt
at 2%
1.67x = 100
x= 100/1.67
x = 59.88

flour = 59.88 lbs
water = .65x or 38.92 lbs
salt = .02x or 1.2 lbs

Will

On 14 Dec 2005 11:33:51 -0800, "Will"
> wrote:

>> Beyond that, I don't know quite what you need, so perhaps
>> you could say it another way.
>
>Perhaps he's getting a quiz question like:
>
>You want to make 100 pounds of dough, your hydration is 65% and your
>salt is 2%. How much flour do you need?

Hi Will,

Indeed, you may be a better cryptographer than I...<g>

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Will" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Kenneth wrote:
>
>> So, for 100 pounds of flour, one might use 2 pounds of salt.
>> That would be called "2% salt."
>>
>> Again, for 100 pounds of flour, one might use 65 pounds of
>> water. That would be called 65% hydration.
>>
>> Beyond that, I don't know quite what you need, so perhaps
>> you could say it another way.
>
> Perhaps he's getting a quiz question like:
>
> You want to make 100 pounds of dough, your hydration is 65% and your
> salt is 2%. How much flour do you need?
>
> x +.65x+.02x =100 meaning: flour at 100%+ water at 65% + salt
> at 2%
> 1.67x = 100
> x= 100/1.67
> x = 59.88
>
> flour = 59.88 lbs
> water = .65x or 38.92 lbs
> salt = .02x or 1.2 lbs
>
> Will
>

Something like that. We're using the Professional Cooking text by Wayne
Gisslen. In the exercises, we get hypothetical recipes that have many
blanks in it but we're given the total yield and the total percentage. The
flour is always 100%. So, for example, I have one that says the total yield
is 2 lb 5.5 oz. The total percentage in this example is 750%.

Thanks. I see I need to lay this out algebraicly. Once I memorize a
formula (it's got to be a simple one) for finding the flour weight (your
example used 'x' as the bread weight ) I'll be in good shape. I don't want
anybody to solve any particular problem for me; I just want to understand
the process for figuring it out myself.

Thanks, Kenneth. My reply is on the bottom
"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:45:07 GMT, "Rich Hollenbeck"
> > wrote:
>
>>I'm going to culinary school but I need a little help with understanding
>>Baker's Percentage. If I'm given the total weight and the total
>>percentage,
>>and given that the weight of all the flours is 100%, How much does the sum
>>of all the flours weigh?
>>
>>Do I add up the total percentage and divide that by the combined flour
>>(100%) percentage? Then I do something with the total weight? Could
>>somebody please explain? Thanks!
>>
>>Rich
>>
>
> Hi Rich,
>
> I read your post a few times, but am having trouble
> understanding just what you are asking.
>
> Bakers' percentage is just the proportion (by weight) of the
> various ingredients to the total weight of the flour. Note
> that it is NOT in proportion to the total weight of the
> dough.
>
> So, for 100 pounds of flour, one might use 2 pounds of salt.
> That would be called "2% salt."
>
> Again, for 100 pounds of flour, one might use 65 pounds of
> water. That would be called 65% hydration.
>
> Beyond that, I don't know quite what you need, so perhaps
> you could say it another way.
>
> All the best,
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Ken, I think I figured out the algebra now. I can get the weight an item
by multiplying the item's percentage by the total weight of all the items
then divide that product by the the total percentage.

Since the flour is 100%, I can simply divide the total weight by the total
percentage to get the amount of flour to use!

Doh! It's simple now that I've thought about it a long while.

Does that look right? If so, it's a nice short cut I can carry around with
me.

Rich

Rich Hollenbeck wrote:

> Doh! It's simple now that I've thought about it a long while.

Our baking ancestors were pretty clever weren't they?

Along these lines... here's another little gem. It's from Peter Mayle
latest book: "Confessions of a French Baker".

Gerald Auzet, the famous French baker, told Peter Mayle that he
controlled fermentation time by getting 3 variables to add to 56 C. So
if the kitchen is 20 C. and the flour is 22 C. then the
water must be 14 C.

I thought that was pretty neat.

Will

> Since the flour is 100%, I can simply divide the total weight by the total
> percentage to get the amount of flour to use!

Hi Rich

750 pounds divided by 750% (7.5) is 100 pounds

Yes you can but this is kind of a coincidence and that way of thinking
doesn't help with the water or two types of flour.

I think this way.

Divide the total weight (750 pounds) by the total percentage figure
750 (not 750/100) that will give you the weight of 1 % you can then
times this by any of the percentages figures, say 100, to get the
weight of that item. This is more versatile just incase you're using
two types of flour, for example.

What is that a fromula for, there's a lot of other ingredients? Or is
it just an exercise?

TG

Our baking ancestors were pretty clever weren't they?


I have been wondering about that. More to the point, about the whole
sourdough and the dissappearing Mayan civilization connection. I mean, say
some ancient guy in his mud hut in his mud village has his flour sitting in
a bowl, from which he usually eats it directly, as he did'nt yet learn what
else to do with it. Somehow it gets all wet when he is out hunting (or
making more mud to fix his leaky mud roof), he gets lost or gets stuck in
the mud for a few days, and when he gets back, hey, the Gods have replaced
his flour with AMBROSIA. It smells of heaven! So tempting, he eats it raw-
YUM! Well, maybe not so yum, but down the road he will build a mud oven and
discover BREAD.! and BEER. !!!! But even though for some reason there was
apparently MORE stuff in the bowl than when he left, he quickly leaves all
but a few scrapings on the bottom of the bowl. What to do? Could and would
the Gods shine on him again? So he SACRIFICES more of his good flour into
his bowl, and being as adept as he is with making mud, adds some water too.
And yes, the Gods DO shine on him again, more miraculous ambrosia is his
reward. He quickly finds that continuing daily sacrifices of flour and water
cause the Gods to keep smiling on him. He learns that sacrifice equals good
things. This of course leads to sacrificing goats, lambs, cows, and yes,
PEOPLE! The Gods of course just dont get it, allow all sorts of droughts and
famines to happen anyway, but continue to send bread spirits to fill the
flour bowls. Being the next human sacrifice being low on mudmans list of
things to do, he packs up his heaven blessed flour-bowl, and he and
everybody else with better than mud for brains heads for greener pastures,
hopefully suitable for growing wheat. And there you have it.

Clever? Some. The ones that got away anyway.

hutchndi

More on that.....While looking into how bakers percentage
calculations could be accomplished using Mayan math, (sticks and
shells! I love it!) I noticed that the chimeneas popping up all over
the place on peoples patios were actually originally created and used
for bread ovens. I cant seem to find any info on how they were used,
and the ones I have seen in backyards dont look very accomodating to a
loaf. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the concept of what they did with
their bread, maybe they just threw it in for another sacrifice.

hutchndi

Rich Hollenbeck wrote:

> Thanks. I see I need to lay this out algebraicly.

It's a quadratic equation.

B/

Hi Rich-
The total percentage is 750%? This is something you bake?

Anyway...... are you talking about formula conversion factor (FCF)?

EX: Baguette formula
Ingredient Weight BP
flour 60# 100%
water 39# 65%
salt 1.20# 2%
yeast 0.78# 1.3%

Totals 100.98# 168.3%

To determine the FCF divide the desired yield of the formula by the
total of the BP of all the ingredients.
FCF = Desired yield /(divided by) total BP

And sure I didn't understood your question so this may not help at all.
If it helps, thank Mike Kalanty at CCA SF. <G> It's from his notes at
BBGA Camp Bread.

Good luck. Have fun!
-Marylouise


Rich Hollenbeck wrote:

> Something like that. We're using the Professional Cooking text by Wayne
> Gisslen. In the exercises, we get hypothetical recipes that have many
> blanks in it but we're given the total yield and the total percentage. The
> flour is always 100%. So, for example, I have one that says the total yield
> is 2 lb 5.5 oz. The total percentage in this example is 750%.

I'm never safe on a keyboard without a copy editor, LOL!

wrote:

> And sure I didn't understood your question so this may not help at all.

Meant to say "Am sure I didn't understand..."

> wrote in message oups.com...

> Meant to say "Am sure I didn't understand..."

Me, too. I dint hardly unnerstand any of them numbers and stuff.

Time to go buy some bread at the store.

--
Dicky

Brian Mailman wrote:
> Rich Hollenbeck wrote:
>
> > Thanks. I see I need to lay this out algebraicly.
>
> It's a quadratic equation.
>

I don't think it is. I don't understand quadratic equations, not since
leaving school but this relatively simple, more like a pie chart : -)

TG

TG wrote:

> Brian Mailman wrote:
>> Rich Hollenbeck wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks. I see I need to lay this out algebraicly.
>>
>> It's a quadratic equation.
>>
>
> I don't think it is.

I do.

All you need to remember is that both sides of the = are different
expressions of the same thing and if you're multiplying on one side,
you're dividing on the other.

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:

> It's a quadratic equation.

I think it may be called a linear equation. Of course, it's been a
while since I sat behind a math book <g>.

Will

Will wrote:

> Brian Mailman wrote:
>
>> It's a quadratic equation.
>
> I think it may be called a linear equation. Of course, it's been a
> while since I sat behind a math book <g>.

I had an unfortunate run-in with several of them in 8th grade. It was
so traumatic, it forced me to spend the summer in a classroom instead of
posing for a Norman Rockwell painting out by the swimming hole.

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:
> TG wrote:
>
>> Brian Mailman wrote:
>>> Rich Hollenbeck wrote:
>>>
>>> > Thanks. I see I need to lay this out algebraicly.
>>>
>>> It's a quadratic equation.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think it is.
>
> I do.

Jeeez! Your freedom. Gfg-it!

From Will's formula:

x + .65x + .02x = 100

x + x(.65 + .02) = 100
x + x * .67 = 100
x (1 + .67) = 100 -> x = 100 / 1.67 = 59.88

normalize it:

x * 1.67 - 100 = 0

standard form: ax + b = 0 1st order, non-quadratic, on a graph, it
would give a straight line of some slope.

quadratic looks different:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratic_equation


K - ?

> Brian Mailman wrote:
> > TG wrote:
> >
> >> Brian Mailman wrote:
> >>> Rich Hollenbeck wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Thanks. I see I need to lay this out algebraicly.
> >>>
> >>> It's a quadratic equation.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I don't think it is.
> >
> > I do.
>
Samartha Deva wrote:
> Jeeez! Your freedom. Gfg-it!
>
> From Will's formula:
>
> x + .65x + .02x = 100
>
> x + x(.65 + .02) = 100
> x + x * .67 = 100
> x (1 + .67) = 100 -> x = 100 / 1.67 = 59.88
>
> normalize it:
>
> x * 1.67 - 100 = 0
>
> standard form: ax + b = 0 1st order, non-quadratic, on a graph, it
> would give a straight line of some slope.
>
> quadratic looks different:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratic_equation
>
>
> K - ?

See Quadratics are about two powers of X. Thank goodness it's not a
quadratic. : -) I'd not be baking if it were. lol. But Jeez talk about
making things complicated. You don't really need any algebra, though I
can see it will help you arrive at the solution if you have no
experience of the formula.

500g total loaf


100 parts flour

65 part water

2 parts of salt

100 + 65 + 2 = 167

167 total parts

500 / 167 = 3

100 parts flour x 3 = 300g of flour

65 part water x 3 = 195g of water

2 parts of salt x 3 = 6g of salt

To check:
300 + 195 + 6 = 500 (501)

I don't know about you but I think this is much easier.

TG

Samartha Deva wrote:

> Brian Mailman wrote:
>> TG wrote:
>>
>>> Brian Mailman wrote:
>>>> Rich Hollenbeck wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Thanks. I see I need to lay this out algebraicly.
>>>>
>>>> It's a quadratic equation.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think it is.
>>
>> I do.
>
> Jeeez! Your freedom. Gfg-it!

Huh. Well they told me my puppy had run away to a farm, too.

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:

> I had an unfortunate run-in with several of them in 8th grade. It was
> so traumatic, it forced me to spend the summer in a classroom instead of
> posing for a Norman Rockwell painting out by the swimming hole.
>
> B/

Looks like you had a close shave, lol

http://images.globalgallery.com/prod...app-nr0210.jpg

bl

bl wrote:

> Brian Mailman wrote:
>
>> I had an unfortunate run-in with several of them in 8th grade. It was
>> so traumatic, it forced me to spend the summer in a classroom instead of
>> posing for a Norman Rockwell painting out by the swimming hole.

> Looks like you had a close shave, lol
>
> http://images.globalgallery.com/prod...app-nr0210.jpg

Mooning the doc when he wasn't looking, that would have been about right
at that age.

B/

TG wrote:

> I'd not be baking if it were.

You are and it is - bacterial growth - exponential. One can calculate
that if so inclined.

> lol. But Jeez talk about
> making things complicated.

Not my intention - he was thinking and insisting it's quadratic, so I
played with it.

> You don't really need any algebra,

To proof in words that it's not quadratic would be cumbersome, that was
the objective. So, for this purpose, it was the adequate tool. Normally,
one doesn't need algebra for dough calculations.

> though I
> can see it will help you arrive at the solution if you have no
> experience of the formula.

[see below]

> 500g total loaf
[...]
>
> I don't know about you but I think this is much easier.

Nope - you sure don't know about me;-)

I use my SdCalcs on my web site because the repetitive calculations
started to suck. Fill in the blanks, hit the calc button, print it out,
add notes as needed, put in folder, have record for later in case it
turns out good. No need to do all the penciling you wrote down.

http://samartha.net/SD/SDcalc04.html
http://samartha.net/cgi-bin/SD-Dtm-3-03.cgi

S

Samartha Deva wrote:
> TG wrote:
>
> > I'd not be baking if it were.
>
> You are and it is - bacterial growth - exponential. One can calculate
> that if so inclined.

But I'm baking for my tea not the Royal Society. :-)

>
> > lol. But Jeez talk about
> > making things complicated.
>
> Not my intention - he was thinking and insisting it's quadratic, so I
> played with it.
>

I know.

> > You don't really need any algebra,
>
> To proof in words that it's not quadratic would be cumbersome, that was
> the objective. So, for this purpose, it was the adequate tool.

Well OK, but the proof is that quadratics is about two powers of X
bread baking isn't. : -) My partrner took mathematics at Kings college,
I asked him. lol. I couldn't remember. Quadratics aren't the kind of
thing I use everyday. :-)

> > though I
> > can see it will help you arrive at the solution if you have no
> > experience of the formula.
>
> > I don't know about you but I think this is much easier.
>
> I use my SdCalcs on my web site because the repetitive calculations
> started to suck. Fill in the blanks, hit the calc button, print it out,
> add notes as needed, put in folder, have record for later in case it
> turns out good. No need to do all the penciling you wrote down.
>
> http://samartha.net/SD/SDcalc04.html
> http://samartha.net/cgi-bin/SD-Dtm-3-03.cgi
>
> S

Hi, Samartha

I was afraid you might think that I was talking to you. I almost hit
the back button to start again. I asked my partner to check it over to
see if it looked to him that I was refuting you. I even moved the
"Samartha wrote:" to emphasise the point. He said it didn't so I went
ahead and posted. Thanks for the link to your site though. I have my
own excel file that I wrote to do the calcs for me when I want to
convert and play with the proportions. The calcs are so simple it isn't
worth switching on the computer and they're even easy enough to do in
my head if I keep the hydration rounded nicely I can guess the
difference between 60 & 70 if I need to. You also don't need any
division if you keep a track of the flour and keep it rounded to a
hundred grams.

I'm making bread it's not rocket science. :-) When I joked about the
pie chart it wasn't completely a joke. It is that simple and it is
linear, as you say. It only looks complicated to newbies because they
can't get past the % sign. Once you put that aside it all falls into
place as simple proportions, as you say, on a straight line graph. You
don't need to start mentioning exponential growths of lactobacilli to
defend your self, chucky egg. The attack is only in your mind.

TG

> > http://images.globalgallery.com/prod...app-nr0210.jpg
>
> Mooning the doc when he wasn't looking, that would have been about right
> at that age.
>
> B/

Is that you mooning the doc., then?

TG

"Rich Hollenbeck" > wrote in message
newsSYnf.16494$OK6.13396@trnddc03...
> I'm going to culinary school but I need a little help with understanding
> Baker's Percentage. If I'm given the total weight and the total
> percentage, and given that the weight of all the flours is 100%, How much
> does the sum of all the flours weigh?
>
> Do I add up the total percentage and divide that by the combined flour
> (100%) percentage? Then I do something with the total weight? Could
> somebody please explain? Thanks!
>
> Rich

Hey guys, this is fun. But you know I wasn't talking about quadratics or
nuclear physics or rocket science either for that matter. Anyway, it is fun
to see how these conversations get out of control. I figured out the
baker's percentage thing and it's really pretty easy. It does involve some
algebraic concepts--sort of--but it's really pretty simple arithmetic.
Thanks for the ride. :-) I'm a tiny bit embarrassed at how it turned out,
but it did generate some fun conversation.

Rich

> Thanks for the ride. :-) I'm a tiny bit embarrassed at how it turned out,
> but it did generate some fun conversation.
>
> Rich

Don't feel responsible : -) Glad you got if figured it out. It is
simple once you get passed the % sign. Yeah sure a bit of algebra helps
you juggle things round. I'm glad I listened to that much at school.

TG