I just received my packet of Bahrain culture but before I activated it
I went to Fisherman's Wharf and they had the San Francisco culture at
some trinket shop, called "Mr. Baker's Sourdough Starter" for a few
bucks, so I activated that one first.

75g white wheat flour, 25g rye, 200g water, 1g salt, 7.5g starter flakes.
I heated water to 35C, mixed with flour, and incubated at ~35C for the
first 3 hours, after which the temperature slowly dropped to the ~30-32C
the 25W oven light keeps it at.

I had googled Lactobacillus incubation and while the exact species in
sourdough are unknown, the optimal temperatures I glanced at seemed to
be around 37C, and one document even had a graph showing lactic acid
production peaking from 35-37C.

Tomorrow I will begin to slowly feed it the same proportions as above,
maybe every 4-6 hours, then increase it to twice a day for a week or two
before placing it in the refrigerator.

BTW, I want to activate my Bahrain culture, but I am worried that the
yeast and Lactobacillus from each one might contaminate the other. Does
this happen often and if so is it neutral in that one strain of bacteria
or yeast replaces the other and the symbiosis continues as usual, or is
it bad in that the new partner is harmful to the other, that the new
Lactobacillus might produce some waste product that is harmful to the
old yeast (or vice-versa) and kill the whole starter?

The line and policies of the Workers' Party of Korea for building a
great prosperous powerful nation serve as a banner of sure victory based
on the Songun idea of Juche... wrote:

> I just received my packet of Bahrain culture but before I activated it
> I went to Fisherman's Wharf and they had the San Francisco culture at
> some trinket shop, called "Mr. Baker's Sourdough Starter" for a few
> bucks, so I activated that one first.

You'll get nothing but baby puke from that.

B/

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message ...

> > I went to Fisherman's Wharf and they had the San Francisco culture at
> > some trinket shop, called "Mr. Baker's Sourdough Starter" for a few
> > bucks ....

> You'll get nothing but baby puke from that.

Was that your experience? Baby puke? I have had several of Mr. Baker's
starts, and they were good. But not dated. Problem with starts from stores
is you don't know how old they are. If you get a pukey one, it may be puke
settled in from your own atmosphere while you waited for your dead start to
come to life.

--
Dicky

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
news:qONGf.1975$Tb.314@trndny01...

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...

> > I went to Fisherman's Wharf and they had the San Francisco culture at
> > some trinket shop, called "Mr. Baker's Sourdough Starter" for a few
> > bucks ....

> You'll get nothing but baby puke from that.

Was that your experience? Baby puke? I have had several of Mr. Baker's
starts, and they were good. But not dated. Problem with starts from
stores
is you don't know how old they are. If you get a pukey one, it may be puke
settled in from your own atmosphere while you waited for your dead start to
come to life.

--
Dicky

don't forget nose puppies

dan w

Go ahead and activate the Bahrain. Just keep the two cultures going
separately. One thing you might want to think about is that salt is
typically NOT added to a starter. It's used later on down the line when
you go to make the bread.
Sharon

wrote...
> Go ahead and activate the Bahrain. Just keep the two cultures going
> separately. One thing you might want to think about is that salt is
> typically NOT added to a starter. It's used later on down the line when
> you go to make the bread.

Oh, I had assumed a certain amount of salt was necessary, but I used
the same amount that I used for Oregon Trail and it worked great then.
I figured that adding salt helps to select for more salt-tolerant
organisms, so that the additional salt in the dough mixture isn't
such a metabolic shock. Is that a faulty assumption? What I added
was about 67% of the amount of salt per unit of flour in typical
recipes I saw; I add the remaining salt when I mix the dough.

Dick Adams wrote:

> "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message ...
>
>> > I went to Fisherman's Wharf and they had the San Francisco culture at
>> > some trinket shop, called "Mr. Baker's Sourdough Starter" for a few
>> > bucks ....
>
>> You'll get nothing but baby puke from that.
>
> Was that your experience? Baby puke? I have had several of Mr. Baker's
> starts, and they were good.

Erf, sorry, wrong start. I don't know Mr. Baker. I was thinking of the
other stuff they hawk to the unsuspecting visitors at trinket stalls and
the airport (and I think somewhat fraudently since it's usually placed
near fairly real sourdough bread baguettes and boules). Goldrush..

B/

"The line and policies of the Workers' Party of Korea for building a great
prosperous powerful nation serve as a banner of sure victory based on the
Songun idea of Juche..." > wrote in message
om...
> wrote...
> > Go ahead and activate the Bahrain. Just keep the two cultures going
> > separately. One thing you might want to think about is that salt is
> > typically NOT added to a starter. It's used later on down the line when
> > you go to make the bread.
>
> Oh, I had assumed a certain amount of salt was necessary, but I used
> the same amount that I used for Oregon Trail and it worked great then.
> I figured that adding salt helps to select for more salt-tolerant
> organisms, so that the additional salt in the dough mixture isn't
> such a metabolic shock. Is that a faulty assumption?

while we are on the subject of salt- since salt has a retarding effect on
yeast, does that also mean that by adding salt earlier in the recipe it will
favor the lb's more, thus giving a more sour taste to the final dough?

dan w

dan w wrote...
>>Oh, I had assumed a certain amount of salt was necessary, but I used
>>the same amount that I used for Oregon Trail and it worked great then.
>>I figured that adding salt helps to select for more salt-tolerant
>>organisms, so that the additional salt in the dough mixture isn't
>>such a metabolic shock. Is that a faulty assumption?
>
>
> while we are on the subject of salt- since salt has a retarding effect on
> yeast, does that also mean that by adding salt earlier in the recipe it will
> favor the lb's more, thus giving a more sour taste to the final dough?

And salt is added to slow the mold that ferments miso and soy sauce. I just
googled on Lactobacillus and salt and it seems gram-positive bacteria like
Lactobacillus prefer a concentration of at least 2% salt while gram-negative
bacteria (its rivals) grow better in concentrations of less than 2%. Over
6% inhibits LB and favors halophiles.

Other google hits referred to various species of LB and the numbers I remember
seeing were between 2% and 6%. The only way to determine the proper salinity
for a given sourdough LB strain would be to test it with different levels.

Here's the link I referred to above, notice it recommends a range of 2-4%; I
used 1% by weight of flour, 0.5% by weight of water, and 0.33% by total weight
of starter batter..

http://lists.foodsafetyweb.info/SCRI...odsafe&P=43063

wrote...
> Go ahead and activate the Bahrain. Just keep the two cultures going
> separately. One thing you might want to think about is that salt is
> typically NOT added to a starter. It's used later on down the line when
> you go to make the bread.

I don't need to worry about it, the alleged SF starter seems to be dead.

The line and policies of the Workers' Party of Korea for building a
great prosperous powerful nation serve as a banner of sure victory
based on the Songun idea of Juche... wrote:
> wrote...
> > Go ahead and activate the Bahrain. Just keep the two cultures going
> > separately. One thing you might want to think about is that salt is
> > typically NOT added to a starter. It's used later on down the line when
> > you go to make the bread.
>
> I don't need to worry about it, the alleged SF starter seems to be dead.

Hello, The line and policies of the Workers' Party of Korea for
building a great prosperous powerful nation serve as a banner of sure
victory based on the Songun idea of Juche...

As long as you maintain some standard kitchen hygiene and don't put the
spoon you just used for one culture in the other culture. I don't think
there's any problem with having more than one culture. They stay
separate in my experience.

On the subject of salt in a starter, If you don't need to put it in why
go to the trouble? I've read many times not to add it to cultures. Me
no expert but I would have thought the 'shock' was more to do with a
local excess but I don't know. Personally I don't want to slow my
cultures down, but then I don't need to here in sunny London. : -) If I
only have to add one amount of salt that makes things easier and
that's fine by me.

TG

Dick Adams wrote:
> Was that your experience? Baby puke? I have had several of Mr. Baker's
> starts, and they were good.

No, Brian was right, it is baby puke. I've left flour batter laying around
before and can't recall a smell that bad after 24 hours. With the quarter
rye I added the crust that formed over the decaying interior had a sickly
greenish-gray color to it.

-------------------------------------------------
"I've come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...
and I'm all out of bubblegum."
-- Roderick Toombs ("They Live")
-------------------------------------------------

" > wrote in message m...

> No, Brian was right, it is baby puke. I've left flour batter laying around
> before and can't recall a smell that bad after 24 hours. With the quarter
> rye I added the crust that formed over the decaying interior had a sickly
> greenish-gray color to it.

Just to be on the safe side, try keeping the baby out of the kitchen.