I have figured out how to get the crusty dry crust for ciabatta, but how do
you get the large bubbles inside the bread?

Ken

"Ken Haycook" > wrote in message .com...
> I have figured out how to get the crusty dry crust for ciabatta, but how do
> you get the large bubbles inside the bread?

Here is a good chance for a Google search. "Sourdough Ciabiatta".

Try it. You'll like what you get.

Ken Haycook wrote:
> I have figured out how to get the crusty dry crust for ciabatta, but how do
> you get the large bubbles inside the bread?
>
> Ken

Ed Replies,

You may get lots of advice on this topic - it's a crap shoot. My best
success was using dough at a hydration of 74 percent, WheatMontana
white flour, a 500F stone, and an even hotter skillet into which
boiling water was poured to produce very hot steam.
My result was probably closer to organized flying crust than anything
else. I found references to earlier posts by googling 'Ed Bechtel
BreadWithHoles 2003'. There are some photos in there.

I also found a series of photos that show the seqence.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res7gfb9/B...WithHoles.html

But...

Since then, many have reported good success using interim stretch n'
folds to the slack dough as it is rising during the first hour. I think
it promotes trapped gas pockets for hole formation. Actually, I use
stretch and folds for all my baking now. In fact I've got some dough
rising this very minute that I must tend to. Good luck.

Please let us know if you have good results.

Ed Bechtel

Ken Haycook wrote:
> I have figured out how to get the crusty dry crust for ciabatta, but how do
> you get the large bubbles inside the bread?
>
> Ken

Hi Ken,


Ciabatta is lazy baker's bread. : -) It really couldn't be much easier.
Like Ed said, the hydration should be high. I usually make it with 70%
hydration, my normal bread is 60-65%. I'm told this will increase with
the altitude, I'm at sea level.

Anyway, let your dough rest for 45 mins after mixing your ingredients
just enough to wet your flour, then do three sets of stretches and
folds, any old way will do, think lazy, : -) . Then when it comes to
shaping don't knock the air out, tip the dough onto a *well* floured
work top and just lazily cut up the dough with a dough cutter or
cleaver with a pushing motion, into roughly the shape you want. You can
have a rest here after that hard work if you like. : -) When you've cut
up all the pieces pull them out to the final shape you want. Turn them
flour side up and place them onto a non-stick tray. I got some silicone
coated baking sheets that I cut up to fit my baking trays or *plenty*
of corn meal will do too. Put them into the oven with a bowl of hot
water to keep the humidity up while they rise.

When they're ready take the bowl out and switch the oven on. about 425F
or whatever you normally bake your bread at.

That's it, couldn't be easier.

Here's a picture of mine.

http://tinyurl.com/ku7zm

TG

In my experience, an uneven, open texture of the crumb is a combination
of ;

- Oven spring. I don't believe you can get the kind of texture you want
proofing (rising) your ciabatas for a long time. Great Oven spring can
be optimized by;

* Well developed gluten networks.
* A well proofed dough with lots of bubbles.
* Hot Hot Hot surface! Go all the way up to max temperature on your
oven when heating the stone.
* Keeping the humidity during the first 10 minutes of baking is
crucial to make sure the crust doesn't "set" too early as this will
inhibid the oven spring.
* How you cut your loaf. Don't inflate it, the goal of slashing is
making room for rise, Be carefull. If you do it violently, it will
deflate.

- Weak flour. Flour with lots of gluten has a tendency to produce an
even texture. At last that's my experience from adding gluten powder to
my recipes.
- Wet dough (As mentioned in other posts). I have never had the need to
go beyond 68% hydration to get the results I want. Ciabata's are wet
though. I think most recipes are > 70%. Remember to compensaste for
the vaporisation of water from your sponge. (I usually make a sponge
overnight, using 100g water/100g flour/20g home made refrigerated
culture. In the morning, this mix only weighs about 180g due to
vaporisation of the water. Remember to add the 20g to the liquid!
-

Here's some pictures showing my implementation of Dan Lepard's white
leaven bread ;
Nice and open texture!

http://www.glennbech.com/2006/05/whi...his-is-my.html

Ken Haycook wrote:
> I have figured out how to get the crusty dry crust for ciabatta, but how do
> you get the large bubbles inside the bread?
>
> Ken

Glenn wrote:
> In my experience, an uneven, open texture of the crumb is a combination
> of ;
>
> - Oven spring. I don't believe you can get the kind of texture you want
> proofing (rising) your ciabatas for a long time. Great Oven spring can
> be optimized by;

Hi Glenn,

How do you think oven spring comes about? It seems you are suggesting
that it comes about by a few bubbles within the dough becoming large in
the oven. What stops them all from becoming equally large?
>
> * Well developed gluten networks.

What does that mean? It sounds like you're suggesting kneading the
dough well will increase the amount of large holes.

> * A well proofed dough with lots of bubbles.

Again, what does this mean? It sounds like you're contradicting your
earlier statement.

"I don't believe you can get the kind of texture you want
proofing (rising) your ciabatas for a long time."

> * Hot Hot Hot surface! Go all the way up to max temperature on your
> oven when heating the stone.

So you're saying that a hot oven will cause the dough to have more
large air bubbles.

> * Keeping the humidity during the first 10 minutes of baking is
> crucial to make sure the crust doesn't "set" too early as this will
> inhibid the oven spring.

It's been well discussed hear that if you proof your dough for longer
(not so long that you over proof, you need to know your culture) you
don't need to worry about oven spring. And if the oven isn't filled
with a vast reservoir of heat you don't need to worry about 'setting'
your crust. More to the point. Heat can only expand holes that are
already there. It won't make any new ones. A bit like the adage
"garbage in garbage out"

> * How you cut your loaf. Don't inflate it,
So put your bike pumps away. : -)


> the goal of slashing is
> making room for rise, Be carefull. If you do it violently, it will
> deflate.

Since when do you slash ciabatta?


> - Weak flour. Flour with lots of gluten has a tendency to produce an
> even texture. At last that's my experience from adding gluten powder to
> my recipes.
Italians use 13.5% protein for ciabatta the W value should be about 290
and the P/L value about 0.5 according to my family's supplier.

> - Wet dough (As mentioned in other posts). I have never had the need to
> go beyond 68% hydration to get the results I want. Ciabata's are wet
> though. I think most recipes are > 70%.

The hydration of the dough isn't about getting holes. You can get
really holey bread at 60-65% if you're lazy with the needing and don't
bang the dough about.

> Remember to compensaste for
> the vaporisation of water from your sponge.

Vaporisation? I tend to keep my Phaser away from the dough, so I've not
had this problem. : -) But I usually stop evaporation by covering the
dough with cling-film. I find this works wonderfully.

> (I usually make a sponge
> overnight, using 100g water/100g flour/20g home made refrigerated
> culture. In the morning, this mix only weighs about 180g due to
> vaporisation of the water. Remember to add the 20g to the liquid!
> -
>
> Here's some pictures showing my implementation of Dan Lepard's white
> leaven bread ;
> Nice and open texture!
>
> http://www.glennbech.com/2006/05/whi...his-is-my.html
>
Yes nice open texture Glen, not ciabatta though. Not unless you've got
hobbit feet.
: -)

Sorry Glenn don't take me too seriously. : -)

TG

Hi, Ken! As others have said, there are lots of recipes and it's
really easy to make. This recipe seems to work for me:
http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm.
Give it a shot and go from there...

But above all, HAVE FUN!


L8r all,
Dusty
--

"Ken Haycook" > wrote in message
.com...
>I have figured out how to get the crusty dry crust for ciabatta,
>but how do
> you get the large bubbles inside the bread?
>
> Ken
>
>

Sorry your link below is broken.

Ken

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:04:43 -0700, "Dusty Bleher"
> wrote:

>Hi, Ken! As others have said, there are lots of recipes and it's
>really easy to make. This recipe seems to work for me:
>http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm.
>Give it a shot and go from there...
>
>But above all, HAVE FUN!
>
>
>L8r all,
>Dusty
>--
>
>"Ken Haycook" > wrote in message
y.com...
>>I have figured out how to get the crusty dry crust for ciabatta,
>>but how do
>> you get the large bubbles inside the bread?
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>
>

See Below:

On 19 Jun 2006 00:30:33 -0700, "Glenn" > wrote:

>In my experience, an uneven, open texture of the crumb is a combination
>of ;
>
>- Oven spring. I don't believe you can get the kind of texture you want
>proofing (rising) your ciabatas for a long time. Great Oven spring can
>be optimized by;
>
>* Well developed gluten networks.
>* A well proofed dough with lots of bubbles.
>* Hot Hot Hot surface! Go all the way up to max temperature on your
>oven when heating the stone.
>* Keeping the humidity during the first 10 minutes of baking is
>crucial to make sure the crust doesn't "set" too early as this will
>inhibid the oven spring.
>* How you cut your loaf. Don't inflate it, the goal of slashing is
>making room for rise, Be carefull. If you do it violently, it will
>deflate.
>
>- Weak flour. Flour with lots of gluten has a tendency to produce an
>even texture. At last that's my experience from adding gluten powder to
>my recipes.

Then a general AP Flour without the Gluten powder is recommended?


>- Wet dough (As mentioned in other posts). I have never had the need to
>go beyond 68% hydration to get the results I want. Ciabata's are wet

Hydration is Water to Flour ratio?

>though. I think most recipes are > 70%. Remember to compensaste for
>the vaporisation of water from your sponge. (I usually make a sponge
>overnight, using 100g water/100g flour/20g home made refrigerated
>culture. In the morning, this mix only weighs about 180g due to
>vaporisation of the water. Remember to add the 20g to the liquid!
>-
>
>Here's some pictures showing my implementation of Dan Lepard's white
>leaven bread ;
>Nice and open texture!
>
>http://www.glennbech.com/2006/05/whi...his-is-my.html
>
>Ken Haycook wrote:
>> I have figured out how to get the crusty dry crust for ciabatta, but how do
>> you get the large bubbles inside the bread?
>>
>> Ken
>

Hi Ken & all;

Okay, I just retried that link...and for me anyway, it's working
just fine. Anybody else?


L8r all,
Dusty
--

> wrote in message
. ..
> Sorry your link below is broken.
>
> Ken
>
> On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:04:43 -0700, "Dusty Bleher"
> > wrote:
>
>>Hi, Ken! As others have said, there are lots of recipes and it's
>>really easy to make. This recipe seems to work for me:
>>http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm.
>>Give it a shot and go from there...
>>
>>But above all, HAVE FUN!
>>
>>
>>L8r all,
>>Dusty
>>--
>>
>>"Ken Haycook" > wrote in message
gy.com...
>>>I have figured out how to get the crusty dry crust for ciabatta,
>>>but how do
>>> you get the large bubbles inside the bread?
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

"Dusty Bleher" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Ken & all;
>
> Okay, I just retried that link...and for me anyway, it's working
> just fine. Anybody else?
>
>
> L8r all,
> Dusty
>>http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm.

copy and paste the link without the final dot and it works fine. or you
could try
this:http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm

ywia

dan w

Thanks, Dan. That might'a been my fault...

Dusty
--

"dan w" > wrote in message
. ..
....
> this:http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/ciabatta.htm
>
> ywia
>
> dan w
>
>

wrote:

> Hydration is Water to Flour ratio?
>

Yeah. Water weight over flour weight times a hundred.

TG