Hi,

I have a few questions about sourdough in developing the sponge:

1. Is it advisable to use sugar ?
2. Is it advisable to add oil ?
3 Is it advisable to kneed the dough ?

thanks for the advice in advance,

Bill

bill wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a few questions about sourdough in developing the sponge:
>
> 1. Is it advisable to use sugar ?
> 2. Is it advisable to add oil ?
> 3 Is it advisable to kneed the dough ?
>
> thanks for the advice in advance,
>
> Bill

Bill,
I am sure there are more opinions here than there are responders, but I
will give my opinion and others can add theirs.

I don't add sugar because I really like the flavor better without it,
and the specifics of how the specific lactobacilus and the specific
yeast and the herd of enzymes all work on it remain obscure to me.

I occasionally add olive oil, but not much, and not to the sponge;
about 2% of the flour weight in the kneading step. Wulf Doerry in
"Baking Technology" says that commercial bakeries use 2% liquid oil +
1/2% of a dough strengthener and an equal amount of monoglycerides for
crumb softening. But this is not for sourdough. My normal process just
coats the bowl that I use for fermenting with a teaspoon of olive oil
(for 1 Kg of dough).

For the sponge, you are not yet developing the gluten so I don't think
you need to knead it, just stir it enough to distribute the nutrients
(so the living things can get to them). Knead when you have reached
the final dough stage (or stretch and fold instead of knead).

For guidance on lesser ingredients and their typical amounts in dough,
see:

http://www.bakingbusiness.com/tech/c...rticleID=17392

Cheers,
Doc

bill wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a few questions about sourdough in developing the sponge:
>
> 1. Is it advisable to use sugar ?

HI Bill,

I think this is mostly a matter of taste but sugar is a preservative so
not too much.

> 2. Is it advisable to add oil ?

I can't think of any advantage.

> 3 Is it advisable to kneed the dough ?

Again no advantage

> thanks for the advice in advance,

You're welcome. I answered each of these to the best of my knowledge.
It's worth noting that for the best dough health and flavour add a
small amount of starter ±20% is what is best and what I've done for
the majority of my baking years. I dabbled for a year with + 40% but
I'd not do that again.

So, is it worth worrying about such a small part of your dough?

Regards
TG

"TG" > wrote in message
ups.com...

bill wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a few questions about sourdough in developing the sponge:
>
> 1. Is it advisable to use sugar ?

HI Bill,

I think this is mostly a matter of taste but sugar is a preservative so
not too much.

> 2. Is it advisable to add oil ?

I can't think of any advantage.

> 3 Is it advisable to kneed the dough ?

Again no advantage

> thanks for the advice in advance,

You're welcome. I answered each of these to the best of my knowledge.
It's worth noting that for the best dough health and flavour add a
small amount of starter ±20% is what is best and what I've done for
the majority of my baking years. I dabbled for a year with + 40% but
I'd not do that again.

So, is it worth worrying about such a small part of your dough?

Regards
TG



No worries here and thanks to both of you ... This is becomming a new hobby
for us.

I did the sponge last nite and it rose very well (tripple) in 12 hours. the
recipe called for 1/2 cup of sugar & 6 c of flour in it ... I used 1/4 cup
sugar and some oil (1/4 c) and did not knead.
It's in the bread pans now, rising again... The dough tastes somewhat sour.
I suspect the sugar may rob some of the sourness?

Thanks again

Bill

> I did the sponge last nite and it rose very well (tripple) in 12 hours. the
> recipe called for 1/2 cup of sugar & 6 c of flour in it ... I used 1/4 cup
> sugar and some oil (1/4 c) and did not knead.
> It's in the bread pans now, rising again... The dough tastes somewhat sour.
> I suspect the sugar may rob some of the sourness?
>
> Thanks again
>
> Bill

Bill,
Next time you increase the starter and make your sponge, taste some of
the sponge before you add the rest of the ingredients. Depending on
the temperature at which the sponge ferments (and the varieties of
lactobacilli in your starter, and whether you have any whole wheat or
rye flour in the sponge) and how long you let it go before you use it,
you will find it more sour than the finished dough. There are things
you can do if you want more acid which others are more qualified to
talk about than I.
Doc

"bill" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I have a few questions about sourdough in developing the sponge:
>
> 1. Is it advisable to use sugar ?
> 2. Is it advisable to add oil ?
> 3 Is it advisable to kneed the dough ?
>
> thanks for the advice in advance,
>
> Bill
>

My sourdough came out just fine ... The familly really likes it and so do I.
I really have a handle on baking it now, I'm positive I think lol. Thanks to
all in this group !!

Bill

Hi Bill,

You really do not need anything other than flour, water, SD starter,
and salt to make a good sourdough bread.

It is fine to add other stuff and try out different recipes.

I use part fresh ground rye and whole wheat or spelt flour, then add
some caraway seeds and coriander. I also add some homemade malted rye
powder and a very little bit of molassas. It makes a tasty rye bread.

I've sprouted wheat and rye and made a dense, very sour bread. I've
added a little expeller pressed coconut oil to that sometimes. It is a
challenge to get a result that others in the family will enjoy. Still
working on that one.

I like to add a little whole grain flour to my sourdough pizza dough. I
usually make two pizzas then have enough dough left for a loaf or two
of bread.

I don't add sugar at all...unless I am making a cinnamon raisin bread.