Hello All:

We have just harvested Zucchini, and also bought some great white
eggplant at our local Farmer's Market. We have developed a couple of
recipes that take advantage of these Summer vegetables, and we hope
you will try them, as well as enjoy them.

They a

Zucchini "Carpaccio" Salad:
http://www.theartisan.net/zucchini_carpaccio.htm

and

Eggplant Stuffed with Pasta:
http://www.theartisan.net/melanzane_..._con_pasta.htm

Both of these recipe can also be found on The New Stuff Page:
http://www.theartisan.net/NewStuff.htm

and on the Food Page: http://www.theartisan.net/recipesfrm.htm

Any errors are mine, and should you find any, please feel free to let
me know, so that I can correct them.

NOTE: For the bread bakers on this or other News Groups, we have done
quite a bit of work on The Flour Treatise, and will be posting the
additions/revisions to that before too long.

Regards

Jerry @ The Artisan
http://www.theartisan.net

Jerry DeAngelis wrote:
> Hello All:
>
> We have just harvested Zucchini, and also bought some great white
> eggplant at our local Farmer's Market. We have developed a couple of
> recipes that take advantage of these Summer vegetables, and we hope
> you will try them, as well as enjoy them.
>
> They a
>
> Zucchini "Carpaccio" Salad:
> http://www.theartisan.net/zucchini_carpaccio.htm

It says on that page, "We have named this a carpaccio as it
is prepared from "raw" Zucchini. When we described this
dish to a chef friend, his response was "Ah, a carpaccio."
So we kept the name!" You would have done better to correct
your "chef" friend.

This is plain silly. Carpaccio refers to a specific dish
comprised of thinly sliced raw beef or tuna, almost always
presented as an appetizer, and the name - its etymology -
comes from the Italian painter, who used red colors
suggestive of raw beef.

Carpaccio doesn't mean raw. Crudo (-a) means raw. Might as
well use "tartare" or "sashimi" and completely pervert the
meanings of the words. Or you could just call it a salad and
be clear. It isn't even laid out like a beef carpaccio would
be according to the recipe. It's just a salad.

Zucchini Sashimi sounds like an Italian-Japanese stripper.

Pastorio

> Eggplant Stuffed with Pasta:
> http://www.theartisan.net/melanzane_..._con_pasta.htm
>
> Both of these recipe can also be found on The New Stuff Page:
> http://www.theartisan.net/NewStuff.htm
>
> and on the Food Page: http://www.theartisan.net/recipesfrm.htm
>
> Any errors are mine, and should you find any, please feel free to let
> me know, so that I can correct them.
>
> NOTE: For the bread bakers on this or other News Groups, we have done
> quite a bit of work on The Flour Treatise, and will be posting the
> additions/revisions to that before too long.
>
> Regards
>
> Jerry @ The Artisan
> http://www.theartisan.net
>
>

In article >,
"Bob (this one)" > wrote:

> Jerry DeAngelis wrote:

> > Zucchini "Carpaccio" Salad:
> > http://www.theartisan.net/zucchini_carpaccio.htm
>
> It says on that page, "We have named this a carpaccio as it
> is prepared from "raw" Zucchini. When we described this
> dish to a chef friend, his response was "Ah, a carpaccio."
> So we kept the name!" You would have done better to correct
> your "chef" friend.
>
> This is plain silly. Carpaccio refers to a specific dish
> comprised of thinly sliced raw beef or tuna, almost always
> presented as an appetizer, and the name - its etymology -
> comes from the Italian painter, who used red colors
> suggestive of raw beef.
>
> Carpaccio doesn't mean raw. Crudo (-a) means raw. Might as
> well use "tartare" or "sashimi" and completely pervert the
> meanings of the words. Or you could just call it a salad and
> be clear. It isn't even laid out like a beef carpaccio would
> be according to the recipe. It's just a salad.
>
> Zucchini Sashimi sounds like an Italian-Japanese stripper.
>
> Pastorio

I'm with you Bob. It's gotten to a point where menus are almost
unreadable, particularly in the trendier foux-foux restaurants. Another
silly practice is giving foreign names to local food products such as
calling tunas by their Hawaiian names. And I could go on... Anyway, it
all makes for shitty communication.

D.M.

Bob (this one) wrote:

(spammage snip)

You beat me to it!

(and my take on "zucchini tartare" would be "relish.")

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
> (spammage snip)
>
> You beat me to it!
>
> (and my take on "zucchini tartare" would be "relish.")

<LOL>

Pastorio

Hello All:

You guys need to lighten up. I told you where we got the name, and
that is the name. If this confounds you I am sorry. Let's just call
it raw "zucchini, cut into thin strips, and then dressed with olive
oil and garlic." I suppose that would make it something you could all
relate to when it comes to food.

I imagine that when you hear the word foam you think of foaming at the
mouth. It turns out that the most famous restaurant in Spain, as well
as many in the USA are big into foams. I think this is a stupid mane
for the product, but it is the name they chose. So I spent 2 minutes
learning about it, as well as about "de-constructed foods". If you
want something to tax your intellect, spend a bit of time studying
de-constructed food.

Have a great day.

Jerry @ The Artisan
http://www.theartisan.net

PS - before you bitch about a recipe, try it. If it's good, the name
is irrelevant. If you don't like it, delete it, or forget it.

================================================== ===============================

"Jerry DeAngelis" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Hello All:
>
> We have just harvested Zucchini, and also bought some great white
> eggplant at our local Farmer's Market. We have developed a couple
> of recipes that take advantage of these Summer vegetables, and we
> hope you will try them, as well as enjoy them.
>
> They a
>
> Zucchini "Carpaccio" Salad:
> http://www.theartisan.net/zucchini_carpaccio.htm
>
> and
>
> Eggplant Stuffed with Pasta:
> http://www.theartisan.net/melanzane_..._con_pasta.htm
>
> Both of these recipe can also be found on The New Stuff Page:
> http://www.theartisan.net/NewStuff.htm
>
> and on the Food Page: http://www.theartisan.net/recipesfrm.htm
>
> Any errors are mine, and should you find any, please feel free to
> let me know, so that I can correct them.
>
> NOTE: For the bread bakers on this or other News Groups, we have
> done quite a bit of work on The Flour Treatise, and will be posting
> the additions/revisions to that before too long.
>
> Regards
>
> Jerry @ The Artisan
> http://www.theartisan.net
>

Jerry DeAngelis wrote:
> Hello All:
>
> You guys need to lighten up.

I think you are in the wrong newsgroup. What's got zucchini yadaya to do
with sourdough?

If you want to make a starter out of it - maybe, but calling it names
sure won't do it.

S.

Hi Samartha:

I agree. If you read my original post, I added a para that stipulated
a revision of The Flour Treatise on The Artisan to inform bakers of
same. I did that as a courtesy to bakers, and frankly I was a bit
lazy, and included it with a food upload rather than write a separate
message.

Now that I am here I will take a moment, and I hope you and the others
on this group will indulge me after 9 years of hosting our site, The
Artisan. It is important to correct all incorrect food/bread
information, especially when provided with an air of infallibility.
Consequently I will add a bit to this note to demonstrate that the
fellows who responded to me are both wrong and perhaps a bit
narrow-minded. Might they be as wrong in their bread related posts?

Carpaccio according to "The Silver Spoon" (Il Cucchiaio d'Argento),
the most successful cookbook in Italy, and originally published in
Italian in 1950 (and in English in 2005) the following are "Carpaccio"
recipes and are listed in the index: Carpaccio Cipriani (the original
beef carpaccio), celery root carpaccio, fish carpaccio, scamorza
carpaccio, and yellow fin tuna carpaccio. Celery root and scamorza
are vegetables.

Wikipedia, the on line encyclopedia offers the following
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpaccio) notation: "Carpaccio refers
to a dish made of thinly sliced raw beef or tuna, usually served as an
appetizer.....Today the term Carpaccio is used variably and often
refers to any very thinly sliced presentation of foods which can range
as widely as apple, kangaroo, tomatoes, langoustine, and trout-and a
great many more. Similarly the amount of cooking the "subject"
receives varies from none at all to searing, to rare cooking, to fully
cooked..."

We at The Artisan thank all of you bakers for allowing us to "pollute"
this group for a brief moment.

Regards

Jerry @ The Artisan



"Samartha Deva" > wrote in
message
news:mailman.25.1156038692.1438.rec.food.sourdough @www.mountainbitwarrior.com...
> Jerry DeAngelis wrote:
>> Hello All:
>>
>> You guys need to lighten up.
>
> I think you are in the wrong newsgroup. What's got zucchini yadaya
> to do with sourdough?
>
> If you want to make a starter out of it - maybe, but calling it
> names sure won't do it.
>
> S.

Jerry DeAngelis wrote:

> You guys need to lighten up. I told you where we got the name, and
> that is the name. If this confounds you I am sorry.

How about be less of a horse's ass, Jerry?

It's not a matter of being confounded, it's a matter of your
"chef" and his utter lack of understanding where names come
from and what they mean. And your endorsing that ignorance.
As for your flaccid effort to strike out at people who look
for coherent intelligence in the kitchen, save that energy
for your bread doughs. It'll be less painful in the long run.

I bet this guy piles up foods and calls the heap a "Napoleon."

Or he makes a blueberry pie and calls it a "clafouti."

> Let's just call
> it raw "zucchini, cut into thin strips, and then dressed with olive
> oil and garlic." I suppose that would make it something you could all
> relate to when it comes to food.

If you and your web site demonstrated deep knowledge and
extraordinary skill, you might be able to pull that snide
crap off. Your stuff is pretty good, but you ain't the top
of the mountain.

> I imagine that when you hear the word foam you think of foaming at the
> mouth. It turns out that the most famous restaurant in Spain, as well
> as many in the USA are big into foams. I think this is a stupid mane
> for the product, but it is the name they chose.

More ignorance, Jerry. When Adria introduced foams at El
Bulli, they were precisely and exactly that - foams. They
were dispensed from devices usually used for whipped cream.
When various and sundry morons tried to swing onto his
bandwagon (about three years after he'd already moved on),
they were as well informed as your "chef" and squirted out
all sorts of hilarious perversions of the real thing. Adria
is truly in a class of his own. The would-be clones who try
to imitate him are so far off the mark as to deserve gentle
snickers and a dismissive wave of the hand.

> So I spent 2 minutes
> learning about it, as well as about "de-constructed foods". If you
> want something to tax your intellect, spend a bit of time studying
> de-constructed food.

One great danger you seem to have fallen prey to is thinking
that because you just learned something that nobody else
knows it already. The notion of deconstruction is as old as
passing on recipes. And actively dismantling foods to create
separated variants is likewise nothing new. Two whole
minutes, huh? Real science...

I've written probably 500 articles that specifically
deconstructed traditional foods. Or factory foods. Or
something a neighbor made. Or a wild-assed idea like
blueberry nuke cakes.

> Jerry @ The Artisan
> http://www.theartisan.net

Your baked stuff is rather good. Don't get too comfortable.

> PS - before you bitch about a recipe, try it. If it's good, the name
> is irrelevant. If you don't like it, delete it, or forget it.

Hey, Jerry. The name is never irrelevant except to
knuckle-dragging Neanderthals for whom language is a burden,
a trifle, rather than a means to the end of transmitting
information. Childish attempts to be oh-so-modern with names
that are uninformative and even wrong brands those users
with an unfortunate mark.

Here's some free advice about language and writing: Don't
write it so they can understand it. Write it so they can't
misunderstand it.

Zucchini carpaccio, your "chef's" ass.

Pastorio

Bob/Pastorio

You are totally off base here. You cannot read, or choose not to, as
I have posted a number of references that contradict your assertion of
what Carpaccio is, or should be. I stand by the Zucchini Carpaccio,
as do the references I provided. You seem to think because you write
articles, you wear the white robe of a Pope. You don't, and your
diatribe suggests you never will.

It is nice to see that you are familiar with foams and deconstructed
foods. I too have written about them, but have no need to impress
anyone here. In short, I find them silly and of limited value in the
real world inhabited by most people.

When you have 1.3 million visitors a year to your website - from all
parts of the world - you can crow a bit. If indeed you have web site
please, provide the URL so that we can visit it, and be enlightened.

Jerry




"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> Jerry DeAngelis wrote:
>

Jerry DeAngelis wrote:

> You are totally off base here. You cannot read, or choose not to, as
> I have posted a number of references that contradict your assertion of
> what Carpaccio is, or should be.

Jerry, you posted two references, both of which I dealt
with, and took it further to full explanation of why I made
the assertions. You've just repeated your initial notion
that because you did it, it was right. Carpaccio should be
red meat on a plate - to echo the color palette of the
painter Carpaccio, as originally construed at Harry's Bar.
That others misuse, misconstrue or simply want to sound more
swell and nifty by using it to mean that which it doesn't,
merely demonstrates that while 100 is the average IQ, it
isn't necessarily sufficient.

> I stand by the Zucchini Carpaccio,
> as do the references I provided. You seem to think because you write
> articles, you wear the white robe of a Pope. You don't, and your
> diatribe suggests you never will.

Jerry, I'm a chef with more than 30 years experience, with
European and American training, and ownership of many, and
operation of many more restaurants. I'm a member of several
professional organizations involved with foodservice. I also
have a degree in English and have written more than 1500
articles which have been published in places like the
NYTimes and LATimes syndicates as well as many other
magazines and newspapers, even an encyclopedia. I've been
doing a call-in radio program for nearly 20 years about food
and cooking. I'm not the pope and I don't play him on tv.
But I surely do have a lengthy professional background in
this field. And while I may not be the smartest kitchen
hand, the - literally - thousands of books in my library,
all of which I've read and used, would seem to comprise a
reasonably exhaustive source bank. I ain't the pope, but I
also ain't a rookie.

I don't think I'm going to defer to your literary criticism,
given your own writing, although "diatribe" was a nice touch.

> It is nice to see that you are familiar with foams and deconstructed
> foods. I too have written about them, but have no need to impress
> anyone here. In short, I find them silly and of limited value in the
> real world inhabited by most people.

<LOL> Of course. That's why you brought them up to try to
seem more widely knowledgeable than you are. And assumed
that others - probably me - aren't as versed as you are. But
I somewhat agree with your assessment of foams. They do have
a real, if limited, place in culinaria, as foie gras,
caviar, balut, Velveeta, durian and Miracle Whip do. The
table is nothing if not democratic. If the "real world as
inhabited by most people" were to be the sole criterion for
value, there would be no great music, architecture, art or
literature. Or cuisine. Perhaps try to aspire higher.

> When you have 1.3 million visitors a year to your website - from all
> parts of the world - you can crow a bit. If indeed you have web site
> please, provide the URL so that we can visit it, and be enlightened.

I don't have a web site up. That total of visitors is a
large number. I note that you've just bragged about your web
site, but above you say you "have no need to impress anyone
here." Perhaps a tiny contradiction.

Pastorio

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message ...

> ... I also have a degree in English and have written more than
> 1500 articles which have been published in places like the
> NYTimes and LATimes syndicates as well as many other
> magazines and newspapers, even an encyclopedia. ...

Welcome. It is very nice to find posters who seem literate.

> (Foams) have a real, if limited, place in culinaria, as foie gras,
> caviar, balut, Velveeta, durian and Miracle Whip do.

I suppose that having a "place in culinaria" can be taken to
imply that they are edible. I have always been partial to Miracle
Whip -- I wonder if you (Bob) can help me understand how it
is made? Can do mayonnaise, but not Miracle Whip. Balut
and durian do not seem very interesting, particularly balut.

One thing I have always liked is a fried baloney sandwich on
sourdough bread, with Miracle Whip and kimchee.

--
Dicky

Bob (this one) wrote:

> Jerry, you posted two references, both of which I dealt
> with, and took it further to full explanation of why I made
> the assertions. You've just repeated your initial notion
> that because you did it, it was right. Carpaccio should be
> red meat on a plate - to echo the color palette of the
> painter Carpaccio, as originally construed at Harry's Bar.

The same Harry's that developed "Fettucini(e) Alfredo" I imagine....

Well, I suppose this was a reflection on the aspects of raw, and thin
slices. The same can be said of positing that a strawberry shortcake
becomes a napoleon, or a moldless trifle. I think the appelation
"-tini" now applies to just about anything, I"ve seen a "cheesecaketini"
which was simply a cream cheese mousseline poured into martini glass and
garnished with piece of candied fruit on a toothpick.

I *believe* it was Pierre Troisgrois (sp?) who was known for telling
jokes with dishes, such as his salmon scallopine--he was playing on
large flat disks of flesh and referring to "leg of salmon" which some
would find amusing.

The problem is when someone doesn't realize they're pulling the finger
and takes themselves too seriously.

B/

Jerry DeAngelis wrote:
>
> When you have 1.3 million visitors a year to your website - from all
> parts of the world - you can crow a bit.

I hate to tell ya, but I suspect a large number of those are merely
people curious to see if you are as much of a pompous ass as your
writing makes you out to be...

-L.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 01:44:48 GMT, "Jerry DeAngelis"
> wrote:

>Hello All:
>
>You guys need to lighten up. I told you where we got the name, and
>that is the name. If this confounds you I am sorry. Let's just call
>it raw "zucchini, cut into thin strips, and then dressed with olive
>oil and garlic." I suppose that would make it something you could all
>relate to when it comes to food.
>
>I imagine that when you hear the word foam you think of foaming at the
>mouth. It turns out that the most famous restaurant in Spain, as well
>as many in the USA are big into foams. I think this is a stupid mane
>for the product, but it is the name they chose. So I spent 2 minutes
>learning about it, as well as about "de-constructed foods". If you
>want something to tax your intellect, spend a bit of time studying
>de-constructed food.
>
>Have a great day.
>
>Jerry @ The Artisan
>http://www.theartisan.net
>
>PS - before you bitch about a recipe, try it. If it's good, the name
>is irrelevant. If you don't like it, delete it, or forget it.

You have a marvelous web site, Jerry. I cannot tell you the number of
times I have used it for advice and recipes.

Keep up the good work and don't let the crazies bother you. They've
nowhere near the talent or class you have shown.

Boron

Boron

Thank you.

I know that we have strong opinions, and over the years have made
others angry because of them. It is nice to know, that we have not
done that with everyone!

Regards

Jerry

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 01:44:48 GMT, "Jerry DeAngelis"
> > wrote:
>
>>Hello All:
>>
>>You guys need to lighten up. I told you where we got the name, and
>>that is the name. If this confounds you I am sorry. Let's just
>>call
>>it raw "zucchini, cut into thin strips, and then dressed with olive
>>oil and garlic." I suppose that would make it something you could
>>all
>>relate to when it comes to food.
>>
>>I imagine that when you hear the word foam you think of foaming at
>>the
>>mouth. It turns out that the most famous restaurant in Spain, as
>>well
>>as many in the USA are big into foams. I think this is a stupid
>>mane
>>for the product, but it is the name they chose. So I spent 2
>>minutes
>>learning about it, as well as about "de-constructed foods". If you
>>want something to tax your intellect, spend a bit of time studying
>>de-constructed food.
>>
>>Have a great day.
>>
>>Jerry @ The Artisan
>>http://www.theartisan.net
>>
>>PS - before you bitch about a recipe, try it. If it's good, the
>>name
>>is irrelevant. If you don't like it, delete it, or forget it.
>
> You have a marvelous web site, Jerry. I cannot tell you the number
> of
> times I have used it for advice and recipes.
>
> Keep up the good work and don't let the crazies bother you. They've
> nowhere near the talent or class you have shown.
>
> Boron