Hi, I'm new to this group. I just recently moved from an area that had
an awesome Japanese market that sold all kinds of sushi grade fish. Now
that I live in Fairfield, CT I can't find a Japanese market that
specializes in raw fish. I have found a reputable fish monger who won't
sell farmed Salmon because of the health concerns but tells me his wild
Salmon is flown in daily. I've already bought and eaten this salmon raw
twice (which had absolutely no smell) and it was delicious. Tonight
I've been reading about this wonderful worm called Anisakis that seems
to be found in salmon. Should I be concerned? I understand flash
freezing kills the worms but may not kill the larva. Should I ask the
fishmonger if it's been flash frozen? If it hasn't do I have to abandon
my addiction? My love of preparing my own salmon sushi is going to be
the death of me.

Problem is that salmon is a part-time fresh water fish, and fresh water
fish are dangerous to eat raw.

On 26 Nov 2006 08:38:52 -0800, wrote:

>
>Problem is that salmon is a part-time fresh water fish, and fresh water
>fish are dangerous to eat raw.

I quite often think of that very thing.

Are there any studies done on the sushi quality of Salmon coming from
their salt water habitat into a freshwater environment, or in stages
thereof?

I've always thought that Salmon caught at the point of migrating to
fresh water would be the optimum of sushi quality, but that is only my
thoughts, nothing I've read or experienced would substantiate this.

I just googled up and read this informative article and discussion on
this very subject:

http://beyondsalmon.blogspot.com/200...sakis-and.html

John Q. Public wrote:
> On 26 Nov 2006 08:38:52 -0800, wrote:
>
>> Problem is that salmon is a part-time fresh water fish, and fresh water
>> fish are dangerous to eat raw.
>
> I quite often think of that very thing.
>
> Are there any studies done on the sushi quality of Salmon coming from
> their salt water habitat into a freshwater environment, or in stages
> thereof?
>
> I've always thought that Salmon caught at the point of migrating to
> fresh water would be the optimum of sushi quality, but that is only my
> thoughts, nothing I've read or experienced would substantiate this.
>
I'm going out on a limb here and say that commercially caught salmon
happens almost always in salt water (guess I didn't like the size of the
limb.) Penned salmon are always raised in salt water.

Now I sit back and wait to get bombed ;-)

--

><<XX>;> Buddy

Hi Q,

I agree - most salmon are flash frozen at sea in liquid nitrogen - which
kills any parasites. ( But I once ate a "brain worm" in some chopped
salmon sashimi at a cheap sushi place in Silly Valley around 1990 - but
it crawled back up my esophagus and throat until I coughed and spit it
out.. (Lucky Me!) ) The sushi I buy is cut so thin and clear and
fresh that you are very safe eating it. Of course since that episode
I'm always looking at it fairly carefully before - and I chew it more.



John Q. Public wrote:
> On 26 Nov 2006 08:38:52 -0800, wrote:
>
>> Problem is that salmon is a part-time fresh water fish, and fresh water
>> fish are dangerous to eat raw.
>
> I quite often think of that very thing.
>
> Are there any studies done on the sushi quality of Salmon coming from
> their salt water habitat into a freshwater environment, or in stages
> thereof?
>
> I've always thought that Salmon caught at the point of migrating to
> fresh water would be the optimum of sushi quality, but that is only my
> thoughts, nothing I've read or experienced would substantiate this.
>

"Joe" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi, I'm new to this group. I just recently moved from an area that had
> an awesome Japanese market that sold all kinds of sushi grade fish. Now
> that I live in Fairfield, CT I can't find a Japanese market that
> specializes in raw fish. I have found a reputable fish monger who won't
> sell farmed Salmon because of the health concerns but tells me his wild
> Salmon is flown in daily. I've already bought and eaten this salmon raw
> twice (which had absolutely no smell) and it was delicious. Tonight
> I've been reading about this wonderful worm called Anisakis that seems
> to be found in salmon. Should I be concerned? I understand flash
> freezing kills the worms but may not kill the larva. Should I ask the
> fishmonger if it's been flash frozen? If it hasn't do I have to abandon
> my addiction? My love of preparing my own salmon sushi is going to be
> the death of me.
>

In Japan, Salmon was never a traditional sushi ingredient because of both
the distance
from where they caught (up north) and the risk of parasites. In the US,
Japanese itanae trained in
Japan will marinate salmon in salt and vinegar first, then cut away the
surface, as a
precautionary measure. If one had to choose between farmed and wild salmon
for raw consumption,
I would choose the farmed. While many people talk down farmed salmon,
clearly the the use of
antibiotics and at the very least a close observation and testing of the
farmed fish reduces the chances
of there being a parasite. This obviously can't happen with wild fish. Which
also can mingle in
waters with pinnipeds whose dropping I believe are linked to some parasites.
Perhaps the safest method for consuming raw salmon is the way it is done in
Japan, frozen first then
thawed. This practice came from the aboriginal Ainu people who froze their
salmon first. Freezing
at refridgerator freezer temperatures doesn't kill any parasities, but it
will weaken them to the point that
they can't cause you harm.
Oddly, I've seen Anisakis in fish I've caught and fish I've bought, even
amazingly inside an Ankimo
(monkfish liver) but never in salmon.
Musashi

Musashi wrote:
> While many people talk down farmed salmon, clearly the the use of
> antibiotics and at the very least a close observation and testing of
> the farmed fish reduces the chances of there being a parasite.

How does antibiotics reduce the chance of seeing a parasite?

What I've been taught is that antibiotics are only good against bacteria.



--
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send
unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail to my
suespammers.org address. It's my life: http://www.laitinen.org/blog/

"Esa Laitinen" > wrote in message
...
> Musashi wrote:
> > While many people talk down farmed salmon, clearly the the use of
> > antibiotics and at the very least a close observation and testing of
> > the farmed fish reduces the chances of there being a parasite.
>
> How does antibiotics reduce the chance of seeing a parasite?
>
> What I've been taught is that antibiotics are only good against bacteria.
>
>

Good point. Use of antibiotics would be only part of the
health maintenance program which would include
observation and testing. Thanks for pointing this out.
M

Remind me not to eat raw salmon any more.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Remind me not to eat raw salmon any more.
>

I really don't think that eating raw salmon is any more or less risky than
eating any other commercially caught fish.
As I said if you are concerned there are methods to
minimize the risk.
M

Musashi wrote:

> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Remind me not to eat raw salmon any more.
>>
>
> I really don't think that eating raw salmon is any more or less risky
> than eating any other commercially caught fish.
> As I said if you are concerned there are methods to
> minimize the risk.


My view is that whatever food you are talking about, fish or any other, and
whether the food is raw or cooked, there is risk. I don't think there are
substantial differences in risk depending on what you choose to eat, so I
choose to eat what I like. That includes raw salmon and rare hamburgers.


--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Ken Blake wrote:
> Musashi wrote:
>
>
> wrote in message
groups.com...
>>
>>>Remind me not to eat raw salmon any more.
>>>
>>
>>I really don't think that eating raw salmon is any more or less risky
>>than eating any other commercially caught fish.
>>As I said if you are concerned there are methods to
>>minimize the risk.
>
>
>
> My view is that whatever food you are talking about, fish or any other, and
> whether the food is raw or cooked, there is risk. I don't think there are
> substantial differences in risk depending on what you choose to eat, so I
> choose to eat what I like. That includes raw salmon and rare hamburgers.

Or raw beef I just made Steak Tartare last week for Thanksgiving day lunch.
Always a treat!

--
Dan

"I don't think there are
substantial differences in risk depending on what you choose to eat..."


Well, obviously there are. Your risk factor would rise rather
exponetially if you walked through the woods gathering mushrooms to eat
at random, and eating fresh water fish raw, or shellfish from polluted
water, etc, etc.

Dan - What sort of meat do you use in your steak tartare? Not shrink
wrapped chopped meat from the supermarket, i hope! I used to eat that
when I was a kid, but I'm afraid to eat it now.

wrote:
> Dan - What sort of meat do you use in your steak tartare? Not shrink
> wrapped chopped meat from the supermarket, i hope! I used to eat that
> when I was a kid, but I'm afraid to eat it now.

I buy boneless NY Shell steaks from Whole Foods, trim and chop in my
food processor. I then add a raw egg, worcestercestershire sauce, A1
sauce, Heines 57 sauce, and a spoon full or two of Grey Poupon mustard.
Mix well and chill overnight. Serve on Pepperidge Farms toasted thin
bread or Kavle crackers.

Most beef contamination seems to occur with hamburg, since the equipment
isn't cleaned for many batches of ground beef. I've always ground my own
for Steak Tartare.

--
Dan

Dan Logcher wrote:

> Ken Blake wrote:
>> Musashi wrote:
>>
>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> oups.com...
>>>
>>>> Remind me not to eat raw salmon any more.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I really don't think that eating raw salmon is any more or less
>>> risky than eating any other commercially caught fish.
>>> As I said if you are concerned there are methods to
>>> minimize the risk.
>>
>>
>>
>> My view is that whatever food you are talking about, fish or any
>> other, and whether the food is raw or cooked, there is risk. I don't
>> think there are substantial differences in risk depending on what
>> you choose to eat, so I choose to eat what I like. That includes raw
>> salmon and rare hamburgers.
>
> Or raw beef I just made Steak Tartare last week for Thanksgiving
> day lunch. Always a treat!



That's probably not much different from the very rare hamburgers I eat.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

wrote:
> "I don't think there are
> substantial differences in risk depending on what you choose to
> eat..."
>
>
> Well, obviously there are. Your risk factor would rise rather
> exponetially if you walked through the woods gathering mushrooms to
> eat at random, and eating fresh water fish raw, or shellfish from
> polluted water, etc, etc.


Of course. You can add eating rabid wil animals, unrefrigerated week-old
leftovers, the contents of other people's garbage cans, etc.

Feel free to modify my statement to exclude those obvious exceptions.


--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Dan Logcher wrote:

> wrote:
>> Dan - What sort of meat do you use in your steak tartare? Not shrink
>> wrapped chopped meat from the supermarket, i hope! I used to eat
>> that when I was a kid, but I'm afraid to eat it now.
>
> I buy boneless NY Shell steaks from Whole Foods, trim and chop in my
> food processor. I then add a raw egg, worcestercestershire sauce, A1
> sauce, Heines 57 sauce, and a spoon full or two of Grey Poupon
> mustard. Mix well and chill overnight. Serve on Pepperidge Farms
> toasted thin bread or Kavle crackers.
>
> Most beef contamination seems to occur with hamburg, since the
> equipment isn't cleaned for many batches of ground beef. I've always
> ground my own for Steak Tartare.



My understanding is that the issue isn't so much the lack of cleaning of
equipment, but the grinding of unwashed meat. Any contamination on the
surface is ground into the mixture, where it can no longer be washed away.

You certainly minimize the risk by grinding it yourself. But my point is
that the risk isn't as great as we are led to believe, even if you use
pre-ground supermarket meat. It eat it rare frequently, and it's never made
me sick.

Yes, I'm aware that there is a risk, but since I enjoy it and the risk is
obviously slight, and if I do get sick, it's unlikely to kill me, I run the
risk.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Ken Blake wrote:
> Dan Logcher wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>> Dan - What sort of meat do you use in your steak tartare? Not shrink
>>> wrapped chopped meat from the supermarket, i hope! I used to eat
>>> that when I was a kid, but I'm afraid to eat it now.
>> I buy boneless NY Shell steaks from Whole Foods, trim and chop in my
>> food processor. I then add a raw egg, worcestercestershire sauce, A1
>> sauce, Heines 57 sauce, and a spoon full or two of Grey Poupon
>> mustard. Mix well and chill overnight. Serve on Pepperidge Farms
>> toasted thin bread or Kavle crackers.
>>
>> Most beef contamination seems to occur with hamburg, since the
>> equipment isn't cleaned for many batches of ground beef. I've always
>> ground my own for Steak Tartare.
>
>
>
> My understanding is that the issue isn't so much the lack of cleaning of
> equipment, but the grinding of unwashed meat. Any contamination on the
> surface is ground into the mixture, where it can no longer be washed away.
>
> You certainly minimize the risk by grinding it yourself. But my point is
> that the risk isn't as great as we are led to believe, even if you use
> pre-ground supermarket meat. It eat it rare frequently, and it's never made
> me sick.
>
> Yes, I'm aware that there is a risk, but since I enjoy it and the risk is
> obviously slight, and if I do get sick, it's unlikely to kill me, I run the
> risk.
>
I love/loved raw ground beef, the leaner the better, but ever since the
deregulation (Reagan) of the meat industry (and a couple of
slaughterhouse documentaries) I don't trust the care & quality going
into the product. My parents shared the experience with me, as I did
with my kids, but no more. Unless I'm doing like Dan and grinding my own.

Do a 6-sided trim on whatever is your choice and you've practically
eliminated points of contamination barring punctures, but I digress.

--

><<XX>;> Buddy

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Ken Blake wrote:
> > Musashi wrote:
> >
> >
> > wrote in message
> groups.com...
> >>
> >>>Remind me not to eat raw salmon any more.
> >>>
> >>
> >>I really don't think that eating raw salmon is any more or less risky
> >>than eating any other commercially caught fish.
> >>As I said if you are concerned there are methods to
> >>minimize the risk.
> >
> >
> >
> > My view is that whatever food you are talking about, fish or any other,
and
> > whether the food is raw or cooked, there is risk. I don't think there
are
> > substantial differences in risk depending on what you choose to eat, so
I
> > choose to eat what I like. That includes raw salmon and rare hamburgers.
>
> Or raw beef I just made Steak Tartare last week for Thanksgiving day
lunch.
> Always a treat!
>
> --
> Dan

Amazingly?while I have been eating raw fish for some 45+ years, I have never
gotten a parasite.
Nor have I heard of anyone I knew personally getting one.
Yet, the only person I know who did get a "worm" managed to get it from
eating
Steak Tartare in Switzerland ages ago.
M

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> > Dan - What sort of meat do you use in your steak tartare? Not shrink
> > wrapped chopped meat from the supermarket, i hope! I used to eat that
> > when I was a kid, but I'm afraid to eat it now.
>
> I buy boneless NY Shell steaks from Whole Foods, trim and chop in my
> food processor. I then add a raw egg, worcestercestershire sauce, A1
> sauce, Heines 57 sauce, and a spoon full or two of Grey Poupon mustard.
> Mix well and chill overnight. Serve on Pepperidge Farms toasted thin
> bread or Kavle crackers.
>
> Most beef contamination seems to occur with hamburg, since the equipment
> isn't cleaned for many batches of ground beef. I've always ground my own
> for Steak Tartare.
>
> --
> Dan

Sounds delicious.
I find the meats at Whole Foods excellent, as well as the Bell & Evans
chickens they sell.
As to the fish section, they make an effort but I could do better.
I find their variety is good but the freshness is mediocre.
M

"Musashi" > wrote in message
news:1%ibh.6247

> I find the meats at Whole Foods excellent, as well as the Bell
> & Evans
> chickens they sell.
> As to the fish section, they make an effort but I could do
> better.
> I find their variety is good but the freshness is mediocre.

IMHO, their salmon is often pretty good but I am suspicious
because they are prone to the usual supermarket dodge of cutting
off the heads of trout "for convenience" (makes it impossible to
check freshness by looking at the eyes!) I am generally
compelled to buy trout at what is the most expensive store in
town: Balducci's.



--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Musashi wrote:
> "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
>
wrote:
>>
>>>Dan - What sort of meat do you use in your steak tartare? Not shrink
>>>wrapped chopped meat from the supermarket, i hope! I used to eat that
>>>when I was a kid, but I'm afraid to eat it now.
>>
>>I buy boneless NY Shell steaks from Whole Foods, trim and chop in my
>>food processor. I then add a raw egg, worcestercestershire sauce, A1
>>sauce, Heines 57 sauce, and a spoon full or two of Grey Poupon mustard.
>>Mix well and chill overnight. Serve on Pepperidge Farms toasted thin
>>bread or Kavle crackers.
>>
>>Most beef contamination seems to occur with hamburg, since the equipment
>>isn't cleaned for many batches of ground beef. I've always ground my own
>>for Steak Tartare.
>
> Sounds delicious.

My grandfather's recipe. I took over the task of making it after
he passed away.

> I find the meats at Whole Foods excellent, as well as the Bell & Evans
> chickens they sell.

The meats are excellent, though a little pricey. The boneless NY Shell
was $10.99/lb.

> As to the fish section, they make an effort but I could do better.
> I find their variety is good but the freshness is mediocre.

Its better than regular supermarket fish though.. just way too expensive
for me to shop on a weekly basis.

--
Dan

Dang! And I always thought dead raccoons and skunks on the side of the
road in Winter were just the best..

Ken Blake wrote:
> wrote:
>> "I don't think there are
>> substantial differences in risk depending on what you choose to
>> eat..."
>>
>>
>> Well, obviously there are. Your risk factor would rise rather
>> exponetially if you walked through the woods gathering mushrooms to
>> eat at random, and eating fresh water fish raw, or shellfish from
>> polluted water, etc, etc.
>
>
> Of course. You can add eating rabid wil animals, unrefrigerated week-old
> leftovers, the contents of other people's garbage cans, etc.
>
> Feel free to modify my statement to exclude those obvious exceptions.
>
>

Howard Johnson wrote:

> Dang! And I always thought dead raccoons and skunks on the side of the
> road in Winter were just the best..

My brother-in-law is on the police call-list in NH for any deer
related car accidents. He collects the carcass, cleans, and
butchers it. His freezer is always filled with meat.

--
Dan

On 2006-11-29 08:43:07 -0800, Buddy > said:

> I love/loved raw ground beef, the leaner the better, but ever since the
> deregulation (Reagan) of the meat industry (and a couple of
> slaughterhouse documentaries) I don't trust the care & quality going
> into the product. My parents shared the experience with me, as I did
> with my kids, but no more. Unless I'm doing like Dan and grinding my
> own.
>
> Do a 6-sided trim on whatever is your choice and you've practically
> eliminated points of contamination barring punctures, but I digress.

No disprespect is intended. Eat what you like. We all take chances
either large or small depending on two things: how much we care, how
great the risks are perceived to be.

Last year a confident American wholesale beef concern, in an attempt to
assuage fears from European customers regarding "mad-cow" contamination
said he would be glad to verify 100% of his beef as "mad-cow" free.
The USDA filed suit or busted him somehow or other. 100% verification
that beef is free of mad cow is apparently an unacceptable thing to the
feds. They don't want it and won't allow it even, as in this case, the
guy was going to do it at his own cost.

I've read some other stuff that indicates that the meager verifications
we do (2%? 5%?) are debatable. And that nobody on the federal level is
interested in doing anything that would investigate the circumstances
more fully.

I have no idea how endemic it is, but read a piece a couple of years
ago that predicted in a few years we would find out that our beef food
chain has lots of infected animals, with myriad ailments, that are
passed through the chain. I'm not claiming they do, just what I've
heard rumors of.
--
What a day this has been, what a rare mood I'm in.

Oh man, you are still going on and on about sushi.

I just read the old thread(almost 3 years ago) about Japanese swords.
I used "wargamer" as my ID then. Then somehow I assumed that you
realized that the very site you provided the link to contradicted your
own date of 720AD as its first attestation. But apparently you didn't.
Not that you would have been convinced even if you did. Continue to
live in your fantasy world even if your fellow japanese scholars(the
fellowship is with being japanese, not with being a scholar which you
certainly are not) contradict you.


Y. Park

P.S. I still think that it is mighty-funny when a Japanese calls
others a midget. Hahahahahaha. There are other smack talks available
but not that one especially when the character refering to Japanese(wa
å€*) has a secondary meaning of being a dwarf. Just live with it, man.

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Musashi wrote:
> > "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Dan - What sort of meat do you use in your steak tartare? Not shrink
> >>>wrapped chopped meat from the supermarket, i hope! I used to eat that
> >>>when I was a kid, but I'm afraid to eat it now.
> >>
> >>I buy boneless NY Shell steaks from Whole Foods, trim and chop in my
> >>food processor. I then add a raw egg, worcestercestershire sauce, A1
> >>sauce, Heines 57 sauce, and a spoon full or two of Grey Poupon mustard.
> >>Mix well and chill overnight. Serve on Pepperidge Farms toasted thin
> >>bread or Kavle crackers.
> >>
> >>Most beef contamination seems to occur with hamburg, since the equipment
> >>isn't cleaned for many batches of ground beef. I've always ground my
own
> >>for Steak Tartare.
> >
> > Sounds delicious.
>
> My grandfather's recipe. I took over the task of making it after
> he passed away.
>
> > I find the meats at Whole Foods excellent, as well as the Bell & Evans
> > chickens they sell.
>
> The meats are excellent, though a little pricey. The boneless NY Shell
> was $10.99/lb.
>

Yes, Whole Foods has good stuff but it's all pretty pricey.

> > As to the fish section, they make an effort but I could do better.
> > I find their variety is good but the freshness is mediocre.
>

I find Supermarket fish (at least in the A&P, Food Emporium and Stop&Shop
locally)
so far below my standards that I can't imagine buying anything.

> Its better than regular supermarket fish though.. just way too expensive
> for me to shop on a weekly basis.
> Dan

Same here. Once or twice a month for me.
M

"James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not> wrote in message
. ..
> "Musashi" > wrote in message
> news:1%ibh.6247
>
> > I find the meats at Whole Foods excellent, as well as the Bell
> > & Evans
> > chickens they sell.
> > As to the fish section, they make an effort but I could do
> > better.
> > I find their variety is good but the freshness is mediocre.
>
> IMHO, their salmon is often pretty good but I am suspicious
> because they are prone to the usual supermarket dodge of cutting
> off the heads of trout "for convenience" (makes it impossible to
> check freshness by looking at the eyes!) I am generally
> compelled to buy trout at what is the most expensive store in
> town: Balducci's.
>

I find Whole Foods' Salmon better than Supermarkets, and well labeled
with a variety (they will mark it Chinook, Coho, Sockeye, etc)
but not quite "top notch". I give them credit for having a "whole fish"
section
though, as well as carrying imports like mediterranean seabass, which is
identical
in appearance to Japanese seabass (suzuki).
I'll have to check out Balduccis.
Buying Trout at stores is never a "fun" thing for me because you really have
no
choice but farm raised rainbows. Although once in a while I'll see steelhead
filets
(raises my suspicions) and Arctic Char. In the case of trout, I prefer the
ones I
catch.
Musashi

Musashi wrote:
> "James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not> wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>"Musashi" > wrote in message
>>news:1%ibh.6247
>>
>>
>>>I find the meats at Whole Foods excellent, as well as the Bell
>>>& Evans
>>>chickens they sell.
>>>As to the fish section, they make an effort but I could do
>>>better.
>>>I find their variety is good but the freshness is mediocre.
>>
>>IMHO, their salmon is often pretty good but I am suspicious
>>because they are prone to the usual supermarket dodge of cutting
>>off the heads of trout "for convenience" (makes it impossible to
>>check freshness by looking at the eyes!) I am generally
>>compelled to buy trout at what is the most expensive store in
>>town: Balducci's.
>>
>
>
> I find Whole Foods' Salmon better than Supermarkets, and well labeled
> with a variety (they will mark it Chinook, Coho, Sockeye, etc)
> but not quite "top notch". I give them credit for having a "whole fish"
> section
> though, as well as carrying imports like mediterranean seabass, which is
> identical
> in appearance to Japanese seabass (suzuki).
> I'll have to check out Balduccis.
> Buying Trout at stores is never a "fun" thing for me because you really have
> no
> choice but farm raised rainbows. Although once in a while I'll see steelhead
> filets
> (raises my suspicions) and Arctic Char. In the case of trout, I prefer the
> ones I
> catch.

They stock one of the local lakes in my town with Rainbows and sometimes salmon.
I tried fishing it one year and not even a bite. I do much better with sal****er
fishing.. plus you can't eat lake trouts as sushi.

--
Dan

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Musashi wrote:
> > "James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not> wrote in message
> > . ..
> >
> >>"Musashi" > wrote in message
> >>news:1%ibh.6247
> >>
> >>
> >>>I find the meats at Whole Foods excellent, as well as the Bell
> >>>& Evans
> >>>chickens they sell.
> >>>As to the fish section, they make an effort but I could do
> >>>better.
> >>>I find their variety is good but the freshness is mediocre.
> >>
> >>IMHO, their salmon is often pretty good but I am suspicious
> >>because they are prone to the usual supermarket dodge of cutting
> >>off the heads of trout "for convenience" (makes it impossible to
> >>check freshness by looking at the eyes!) I am generally
> >>compelled to buy trout at what is the most expensive store in
> >>town: Balducci's.
> >>
> >
> >
> > I find Whole Foods' Salmon better than Supermarkets, and well labeled
> > with a variety (they will mark it Chinook, Coho, Sockeye, etc)
> > but not quite "top notch". I give them credit for having a "whole fish"
> > section
> > though, as well as carrying imports like mediterranean seabass, which is
> > identical
> > in appearance to Japanese seabass (suzuki).
> > I'll have to check out Balduccis.
> > Buying Trout at stores is never a "fun" thing for me because you really
have
> > no
> > choice but farm raised rainbows. Although once in a while I'll see
steelhead
> > filets
> > (raises my suspicions) and Arctic Char. In the case of trout, I prefer
the
> > ones I
> > catch.
>
> They stock one of the local lakes in my town with Rainbows and sometimes
salmon.
> I tried fishing it one year and not even a bite. I do much better with
sal****er
> fishing.. plus you can't eat lake trouts as sushi.
>
> --
> Dan

We have several large reservoirs about an hour north of where I live.
Last Saturday I caught a 5 pound Brown Trout. My biggest actually.
Beautiful pink flesh, very similar to Atlantic Salmon.
But you're right, no sushi or sashimi.
M

Musashi wrote:
>
> We have several large reservoirs about an hour north of where I live.
> Last Saturday I caught a 5 pound Brown Trout. My biggest actually.
> Beautiful pink flesh, very similar to Atlantic Salmon.
> But you're right, no sushi or sashimi.

I fished the lake only 4 times that year, so all from the same location.
The last time I went, I sat next to a guy and his wife. He has already
caught a rainbow trout and gave it to me since he had 17 at home. I felt
pretty bad that I couldn't even get a hit.. but I probably didn't give
it enough effort.

The one trout was very tasty grilled.

--
Dan

Hello, Dan!
You wrote on Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:31:15 -0500:

DL> Musashi wrote:
??>>
??>> We have several large reservoirs about an hour north of
??>> where I live. Last Saturday I caught a 5 pound Brown
??>> Trout. My biggest actually. Beautiful pink flesh, very
??>> similar to Atlantic Salmon. But you're right, no sushi or
??>> sashimi.

DL> I fished the lake only 4 times that year, so all from the
DL> same location. The last time I went, I sat next to a guy
DL> and his wife. He has already caught a rainbow trout and
DL> gave it to me since he had 17 at home. I felt pretty bad
DL> that I couldn't even get a hit.. but I probably didn't give
DL> it enough effort.

DL> The one trout was very tasty grilled.

It's hardly a sushi story but Trader Joe's has some of the best
frozen fish around. However, I was intrigued to see that some
"Atlantic Salmon" was "imported from Chile" which hardly has an
Atlantic coast. The company maintains that Atlantic Salmon is
just a name which is not really true since the Atlantic salmon
is Salmo salar and does not occur naturally in the Pacific. It
is just possible that the Chileans are farming Atlantic salmon
but the practice is deprecated since some farmed salmon
invariably escape and they might displace the Oncorhynchus
species of the Pacific.


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

"James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not> wrote in message
. ..
> Hello, Dan!
> You wrote on Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:31:15 -0500:
>
> DL> Musashi wrote:
> ??>>
> ??>> We have several large reservoirs about an hour north of
> ??>> where I live. Last Saturday I caught a 5 pound Brown
> ??>> Trout. My biggest actually. Beautiful pink flesh, very
> ??>> similar to Atlantic Salmon. But you're right, no sushi or
> ??>> sashimi.
>
> DL> I fished the lake only 4 times that year, so all from the
> DL> same location. The last time I went, I sat next to a guy
> DL> and his wife. He has already caught a rainbow trout and
> DL> gave it to me since he had 17 at home. I felt pretty bad
> DL> that I couldn't even get a hit.. but I probably didn't give
> DL> it enough effort.
>
> DL> The one trout was very tasty grilled.
>
> It's hardly a sushi story but Trader Joe's has some of the best
> frozen fish around. However, I was intrigued to see that some
> "Atlantic Salmon" was "imported from Chile" which hardly has an
> Atlantic coast. The company maintains that Atlantic Salmon is
> just a name which is not really true since the Atlantic salmon
> is Salmo salar and does not occur naturally in the Pacific. It
> is just possible that the Chileans are farming Atlantic salmon
> but the practice is deprecated since some farmed salmon
> invariably escape and they might displace the Oncorhynchus
> species of the Pacific.
>

Yes, Chile is quite active in salmon and trout farming. I've seen farmed
Chilean salmon even in Japan.
Atlantic salmon farming is usually brings to mind Norway, Sweden, Scotland,
Canada and Maine US. But they are also farmed on the Pacific coast as well.
Actually I think they've been farmed long enough on the West Coast that a
few
probably have escaped but I doubt the numbers would be sufficient to worry
about displacing the numerous Pacific species.
M

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Musashi wrote:
> >
> > We have several large reservoirs about an hour north of where I live.
> > Last Saturday I caught a 5 pound Brown Trout. My biggest actually.
> > Beautiful pink flesh, very similar to Atlantic Salmon.
> > But you're right, no sushi or sashimi.
>
> I fished the lake only 4 times that year, so all from the same location.
> The last time I went, I sat next to a guy and his wife. He has already
> caught a rainbow trout and gave it to me since he had 17 at home. I felt
> pretty bad that I couldn't even get a hit.. but I probably didn't give
> it enough effort.
>
> The one trout was very tasty grilled.
>
> Dan

While drifting towards the fishing NG, what method,
lure or bait have you been using? I ask because I do fairly
well with trout in lakes.
M

Musashi wrote:

> "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Musashi wrote:
>>
>>>We have several large reservoirs about an hour north of where I live.
>>>Last Saturday I caught a 5 pound Brown Trout. My biggest actually.
>>>Beautiful pink flesh, very similar to Atlantic Salmon.
>>>But you're right, no sushi or sashimi.
>>
>>I fished the lake only 4 times that year, so all from the same location.
>>The last time I went, I sat next to a guy and his wife. He has already
>>caught a rainbow trout and gave it to me since he had 17 at home. I felt
>>pretty bad that I couldn't even get a hit.. but I probably didn't give
>>it enough effort.
>>
>>The one trout was very tasty grilled.
>>
>>Dan
>
>
> While drifting towards the fishing NG, what method,
> lure or bait have you been using? I ask because I do fairly
> well with trout in lakes.

I was using power bait with a small weight off the bottom.
The guy who gave me the trout was using the same.

--
Dan

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Musashi wrote:
>
> > "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Musashi wrote:
> >>
> >>>We have several large reservoirs about an hour north of where I live.
> >>>Last Saturday I caught a 5 pound Brown Trout. My biggest actually.
> >>>Beautiful pink flesh, very similar to Atlantic Salmon.
> >>>But you're right, no sushi or sashimi.
> >>
> >>I fished the lake only 4 times that year, so all from the same location.
> >>The last time I went, I sat next to a guy and his wife. He has already
> >>caught a rainbow trout and gave it to me since he had 17 at home. I
felt
> >>pretty bad that I couldn't even get a hit.. but I probably didn't give
> >>it enough effort.
> >>
> >>The one trout was very tasty grilled.
> >>
> >>Dan
> >
> >
> > While drifting towards the fishing NG, what method,
> > lure or bait have you been using? I ask because I do fairly
> > well with trout in lakes.
>
> I was using power bait with a small weight off the bottom.
> The guy who gave me the trout was using the same.
>
> --
> Dan

Powerbait is very effective on stockies in some lakes.
I use it with a 1/4 oz egg sinker and a sliding rig so the fish won't feel
the sinker weight.
In some stocked lakes where powerbait has failed me I've done well using
mealworms.
In larger lakes where there are older bigger fish I always do well on live
bait.
M

Musashi wrote:
> "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Musashi wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Musashi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>We have several large reservoirs about an hour north of where I live.
>>>>>Last Saturday I caught a 5 pound Brown Trout. My biggest actually.
>>>>>Beautiful pink flesh, very similar to Atlantic Salmon.
>>>>>But you're right, no sushi or sashimi.
>>>>
>>>>I fished the lake only 4 times that year, so all from the same location.
>>>>The last time I went, I sat next to a guy and his wife. He has already
>>>>caught a rainbow trout and gave it to me since he had 17 at home. I
>
> felt
>
>>>>pretty bad that I couldn't even get a hit.. but I probably didn't give
>>>>it enough effort.
>>>>
>>>>The one trout was very tasty grilled.
>>>>
>>>>Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>While drifting towards the fishing NG, what method,
>>>lure or bait have you been using? I ask because I do fairly
>>>well with trout in lakes.
>>
>>I was using power bait with a small weight off the bottom.
>>The guy who gave me the trout was using the same.
>
> Powerbait is very effective on stockies in some lakes.
> I use it with a 1/4 oz egg sinker and a sliding rig so the fish won't feel
> the sinker weight.
> In some stocked lakes where powerbait has failed me I've done well using
> mealworms.
> In larger lakes where there are older bigger fish I always do well on live
> bait.

I asked around the lake what others were using, it was the same.
Yeah, I used a sliding rig as well. For the $30/year and the one
foot long fish I got out of it (didn't even catch it), it didn't
compare to sal****er fishing. Pulling up 2'-3' striper and knowing
I can eat this raw. YUM!

--
Dan

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Musashi wrote:
> > "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Musashi wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Musashi wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>We have several large reservoirs about an hour north of where I live.
> >>>>>Last Saturday I caught a 5 pound Brown Trout. My biggest actually.
> >>>>>Beautiful pink flesh, very similar to Atlantic Salmon.
> >>>>>But you're right, no sushi or sashimi.
> >>>>
> >>>>I fished the lake only 4 times that year, so all from the same
location.
> >>>>The last time I went, I sat next to a guy and his wife. He has
already
> >>>>caught a rainbow trout and gave it to me since he had 17 at home. I
> >
> > felt
> >
> >>>>pretty bad that I couldn't even get a hit.. but I probably didn't give
> >>>>it enough effort.
> >>>>
> >>>>The one trout was very tasty grilled.
> >>>>
> >>>>Dan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>While drifting towards the fishing NG, what method,
> >>>lure or bait have you been using? I ask because I do fairly
> >>>well with trout in lakes.
> >>
> >>I was using power bait with a small weight off the bottom.
> >>The guy who gave me the trout was using the same.
> >
> > Powerbait is very effective on stockies in some lakes.
> > I use it with a 1/4 oz egg sinker and a sliding rig so the fish won't
feel
> > the sinker weight.
> > In some stocked lakes where powerbait has failed me I've done well using
> > mealworms.
> > In larger lakes where there are older bigger fish I always do well on
live
> > bait.
>
> I asked around the lake what others were using, it was the same.
> Yeah, I used a sliding rig as well. For the $30/year and the one
> foot long fish I got out of it (didn't even catch it), it didn't
> compare to sal****er fishing. Pulling up 2'-3' striper and knowing
> I can eat this raw. YUM!
>
> Dan

One thing I've learned is that you can never do a cost analysis that is
going to make fishing or hunting or any other
food gathering activity economically attarctive. Even when I do well by
catching a large fish or many smaller fish.,
working in all the expenses of the not-so-productive trips will create an
average such that it would be more economical
to just "buy" the fish. What makes it worthwhile for me is that I can't
really buy a "fresh whole fish" of sashimi quality.
At least not without paying a minor fortune.
While Stripers are caught down here I don't think at the rate they are up
your way. And with a 28 inch size limit, I'd hate
to catch a 27 incher. LOL
Do you have Porgies up there? Or Black Sea Bass? Or Fluke? All of these are
excellent sashimi fish.
Not even getting into Tuna.
M

Musashi wrote:
> One thing I've learned is that you can never do a cost analysis that is
> going to make fishing or hunting or any other
> food gathering activity economically attarctive. Even when I do well by
> catching a large fish or many smaller fish.,
> working in all the expenses of the not-so-productive trips will create an
> average such that it would be more economical
> to just "buy" the fish. What makes it worthwhile for me is that I can't
> really buy a "fresh whole fish" of sashimi quality.
> At least not without paying a minor fortune.

I bought my rod and reel about 10 years ago, so my only costs are bait,
replacement line every other year, and gas to drive 25 minutes to the
ocean. I've had very productive years, catching many large sized keepers
in the 36" range. This year was kind of poor, only two small keepers,
one of which I gave to the chef.

> While Stripers are caught down here I don't think at the rate they are up
> your way. And with a 28 inch size limit, I'd hate
> to catch a 27 incher. LOL

I know, I hate pulling up a near keeper.. try stretching it out some.
You should see all sizes depending on the season. They tend to hang
around New England more though.

> Do you have Porgies up there? Or Black Sea Bass? Or Fluke? All of these are
> excellent sashimi fish.
> Not even getting into Tuna.



--
Dan