I recently heard that you must not make sushi with four ingredients,
as four is the "shi" symbol (meaning death). Obviously, that statement
made in the media was incomplete. So here I come for precisions.

- Is this a rule or just a rare superstition ?
- Does it only apply to maki, or also to other pieces ?
- Does the rice and the algae count as ingredients ?

Thank you for enlightening me,
Max

Max wrote:
> I recently heard that you must not make sushi with four ingredients,
> as four is the "shi" symbol (meaning death). Obviously, that statement
> made in the media was incomplete. So here I come for precisions.
>
> - Is this a rule or just a rare superstition ?
> - Does it only apply to maki, or also to other pieces ?
> - Does the rice and the algae count as ingredients ?
>
> Thank you for enlightening me,

Hi Max,
The Chinese have similar customs where you don't do things in 4's.
When we visit the cemetary to pay respects, we bow three times and
stick clusters of 3 sticks on insence in the ground. Four in Chinese
sounds like the word death, so its taboo.

I didn't realize it was similar for Japanese.. never heard of chefs
avoiding 4 item makis.

--
Dan

Evan D. wrote:
> Dan,
>
> I remember on East Meets West that Ming Tsai said that Chinese always
> prepare 3 or 5, as four has the same root as death (sih?). In fact, I've
> always seen futomaki served as 4 pieces, but regular sized maki always as 6
> or 8.

Right, I guess that's why I didn't think it was also a Japanese thing.
Perhaps the sushi chef in this case is really Chinese?

4 piece Futomaki == deathroll

--
Dan

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 16:48:05 -0400, <Evan D.> wrote:

> Dan,
>
> I remember on East Meets West that Ming Tsai said that Chinese always
> prepare 3 or 5, as four has the same root as death (sih?).


I thought that it wasn't the root, but that the words for both "four"
and "death" (in both Chinese and Japanese) *sound* alike).

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

"Max" > wrote in message
...
>I recently heard that you must not make sushi with four ingredients,
> as four is the "shi" symbol (meaning death). Obviously, that statement
> made in the media was incomplete. So here I come for precisions.
>
> - Is this a rule or just a rare superstition ?
> - Does it only apply to maki, or also to other pieces ?
> - Does the rice and the algae count as ingredients ?
>
> Thank you for enlightening me,
> Max

The Kanji character for Four is usually read as "Shi" which is also how a
different character for Death is read.
So yes, in the old days people in Japan use to make a big deal out of the
number 4.
Also the number 9 can be read Ku which is also the reading for the character
for suffering.
So 4 and 9 were often treated as unlucky numbers.
Today no body in Japan takes the Shi/Ku thing too seriously. At least
nowhere near as they use to.
A good parallel would be how many Americans today take the number 13 being
unlucky very seriously?
I'm sure some do. But probably nowhere near as many as say 100 years ago.
As to having any relevance to sushi, it's more than likely to have had some
influence in the past, on the
older forms of makizushi and probably even the Edomae nigiri of the 1800s.
I have never run accross any place today that made any big deal out of it.
On the other hand, I guess all you need is one Itamae who makes a big deal
out out it for it to become one.

BTW, Nori and Shari never counts as a "tane/neta" or ingredient.

Musashi

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:57:28 -0400, in alt.food.sushi "Musashi"
> wrote:

> The Kanji character for Four is usually read as "Shi" which is also how a
> different character for Death is read.
> So yes, in the old days people in Japan use to make a big deal out of the
> number 4.
> Also the number 9 can be read Ku which is also the reading for the character
> for suffering.
> So 4 and 9 were often treated as unlucky numbers.
> Today no body in Japan takes the Shi/Ku thing too seriously. At least
> nowhere near as they use to.

> A good parallel would be how many Americans today take the number 13 being
> unlucky very seriously?


But it's still true that very few tall hotels have a 13th floor.

I always found that incredible. If I were afraid of staying on the
13th floor of a hotel that skipped the number 13, I wouldn't stay on
what they called the 14th floor. You can't fool me *that* easily.


> I'm sure some do. But probably nowhere near as many as say 100 years ago.


That's almost certainly correct.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

In article >,
Ken Blake > wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:57:28 -0400, in alt.food.sushi "Musashi"
> wrote:

>> A good parallel would be how many Americans today take the number 13 being
>> unlucky very seriously?
>
>But it's still true that very few tall hotels have a 13th floor.
>
>I always found that incredible. If I were afraid of staying on the
>13th floor of a hotel that skipped the number 13, I wouldn't stay on
>what they called the 14th floor. You can't fool me *that* easily.

People who can count that high are the least likely to believe it's
unlucky.

Seth

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:18:09 +0000 (UTC), (Seth)
wrote:

> In article >,
> Ken Blake > wrote:

> >But it's still true that very few tall hotels have a 13th floor.
> >
> >I always found that incredible. If I were afraid of staying on the
> >13th floor of a hotel that skipped the number 13, I wouldn't stay on
> >what they called the 14th floor. You can't fool me *that* easily.
>
> People who can count that high are the least likely to believe it's
> unlucky.


LOL!

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

On Apr 10, 4:34 pm, Ken Blake >
wrote:
> I always found that incredible. If I were afraid of staying on the
> 13th floor of a hotel that skipped the number 13, I wouldn't stay on
> what they called the 14th floor. You can't fool me *that* easily.
>
14 in Chinese sounds like "sure death". So in some new condos being
built with an eye to the Chinese market, the next floor up from 12th
is 15th.

Tippi wrote:
> On Apr 10, 4:34 pm, Ken Blake >
> wrote:
>
>>I always found that incredible. If I were afraid of staying on the
>>13th floor of a hotel that skipped the number 13, I wouldn't stay on
>>what they called the 14th floor. You can't fool me *that* easily.
>>
>
> 14 in Chinese sounds like "sure death". So in some new condos being
> built with an eye to the Chinese market, the next floor up from 12th
> is 15th.

But is 13 a problem for Chinese? I mean, what if another stuper-stition
comes along with an issue for the number 12. Maybe start numbering floors
at 100.

--
Dan

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:02:16 -0700 (PDT), Tippi >
wrote:

> On Apr 10, 4:34 pm, Ken Blake >
> wrote:
> > I always found that incredible. If I were afraid of staying on the
> > 13th floor of a hotel that skipped the number 13, I wouldn't stay on
> > what they called the 14th floor. You can't fool me *that* easily.
> >
> 14 in Chinese sounds like "sure death". So in some new condos being
> built with an eye to the Chinese market, the next floor up from 12th
> is 15th.


Get enough cultures catered to, each with its own superstition of what
numbers are unlucky, and they won't be able to have any floors at all!

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Ken wrote on Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:32:07 -0700:

??>> On Apr 10, 4:34 pm, Ken Blake
??>> > wrote:
??>>> I always found that incredible. If I were afraid of
??>>> staying on the 13th floor of a hotel that skipped the
??>>> number 13, I wouldn't stay on what they called the 14th
??>>> floor. You can't fool me *that* easily.
??>>>
??>> 14 in Chinese sounds like "sure death". So in some new
??>> condos being built with an eye to the Chinese market, the
??>> next floor up from 12th is 15th.

KB> Get enough cultures catered to, each with its own
KB> superstition of what numbers are unlucky, and they won't be
KB> able to have any floors at all!

Superstitions are amusing but what do you when they are
contradictory? I can understand not walking under a ladder since
someone might drop a paint can on you but black cats are *lucky*
in Britain. Mind you, I'm not sure what the fact that there was
a brand of cigarets called "Black Cat" proves knowing what we do
now :-)

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 17:46:07 GMT, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> Ken wrote on Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:32:07 -0700:
>
> ??>> On Apr 10, 4:34 pm, Ken Blake
> ??>> > wrote:
> ??>>> I always found that incredible. If I were afraid of
> ??>>> staying on the 13th floor of a hotel that skipped the
> ??>>> number 13, I wouldn't stay on what they called the 14th
> ??>>> floor. You can't fool me *that* easily.
> ??>>>
> ??>> 14 in Chinese sounds like "sure death". So in some new
> ??>> condos being built with an eye to the Chinese market, the
> ??>> next floor up from 12th is 15th.
>
> KB> Get enough cultures catered to, each with its own
> KB> superstition of what numbers are unlucky, and they won't be
> KB> able to have any floors at all!
>
> Superstitions are amusing but what do you when they are
> contradictory? I can understand not walking under a ladder since
> someone might drop a paint can on you but black cats are *lucky*
> in Britain. Mind you, I'm not sure what the fact that there was
> a brand of cigarets called "Black Cat" proves knowing what we do
> now :-)


I have only one superstition myself: I never walk under a black cat.
;-)

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 17:46:07 GMT, "James Silverton"
> > wrote:
>
>
>> Ken wrote on Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:32:07 -0700:
>>
>> ??>> On Apr 10, 4:34 pm, Ken Blake
>> ??>> > wrote:
>> ??>>> I always found that incredible. If I were afraid of
>> ??>>> staying on the 13th floor of a hotel that skipped the
>> ??>>> number 13, I wouldn't stay on what they called the 14th
>> ??>>> floor. You can't fool me *that* easily.
>> ??>>>
>> ??>> 14 in Chinese sounds like "sure death". So in some new
>> ??>> condos being built with an eye to the Chinese market, the
>> ??>> next floor up from 12th is 15th.
>>
>> KB> Get enough cultures catered to, each with its own
>> KB> superstition of what numbers are unlucky, and they won't be
>> KB> able to have any floors at all!
>>
>>Superstitions are amusing but what do you when they are
>>contradictory? I can understand not walking under a ladder since
>>someone might drop a paint can on you but black cats are *lucky*
>>in Britain. Mind you, I'm not sure what the fact that there was
>>a brand of cigarets called "Black Cat" proves knowing what we do
>>now :-)
>
>
>
> I have only one superstition myself: I never walk under a black cat.

Bahahahahaha!

--
Dan

> I have only one superstition myself: I never walk under a black cat.
> ;-)
>
> --
> Ken Blake
> Please Reply to the Newsgroup


Tee hee.

Black cats are lucky in the UK? I didn't know that. Perhaps it is a
different race of cats over there.