I had sushi at a sushi bar after quite a while. Also with the posts
about kaiten suhi recently, I finally made it all the way to Sushi
Station (Rolling Meadows, IL - a NW suburb of Chicago). There had been
a detailed post about this from "Ron" (08/29/02) - so I'm not going
too much into the details about the place itself. This was my first
time at a kaiten sushi place. There were three chefs - one much older
Japanese itamae and two young Hispanic itamae (Jesus, pronounced
Hay-soos, was the one we sat closest to) . The older itamae was at the
'front' while the others were on one side of the rectangular area the
conveyor (inside a glass tube) moved around. At the 'back' end of the
rectangle there was a large kitchen area - where I suppose the tempura
and other cooked items (baked oysters) were prepared. Prepared rice
ball for nigiri on a large tray also came out of there and were placed
near the Japanese itamaesan ("Pappasan" as the others called him -
incidentally the two non japanese itamaes conversed with him and other
waitstaff in japanese - beyond the mere names of fish/dishes).
Pappasan was from his hand movements
in making the nigiris clearly a traditionally trained itamae.

The oshibori we got was prepackaged - like a large version of a
cleansing wipe you get on airplanes and heated.

A sign at the bar where we sat said fish came in from Osaka Market in
Japan. The lady who showed us to our seats also gave us a sheets of
'specials' and mentioned that these were the weekend specials and had
been flown in from Japan (we went around 7pm on Friday). The specials
and any other items you had to ask the waitstaff. Some of the specials
also made their way onto the conveyor - no difference in price. The
colour of the plate you took off the conveyor was an indicator of the
price ($1, 2, 3, 4 or 6). One of the not so regular nigiris I noticed
were scallop (not a special - and I didn't try it). Some of the items
on special I did try (for the first time) were raw octopus (nigiri
with a very thin semicircular slice of lemon between the two pieces -
not between the octopus and rice) ($3) , horse mackeral (aji) ($6, 2
nigiris), white salmon (shiro sake), negi-toro handroll. I didn't
care too much for the texture of the raw octopus. Aji I've had before
- also it was on the conveyor (non-special, $3/ 2pc) with ginger and
scallion on top) - but this was fantastic. The toro was fantastic too.
I liked the white salmon ($4 /2pcs) as well - tasted like a mild
version of regular salmon. It looked like albino salmon - white (like
scallop) with slighter paler striations of fat.

Has anybody else had this 'white salmon' before? I had not even heard
of it - either in sushi bars or in this ng (in the past 5yrs). What is
it?

The ume-shisho roll I asked for perplexed the waitress a bit but Jesus
who was close by was very happy to oblige. Fantastic Uni at $4/pcs
was a steal.

The two of us had about 16 plates (at various prices) and 1 asahi
(large), tea and mochi stuffed with redbean paste (azuki?) and wrapped
in "Similar to bamboo leaves that imparts the flavour to the mochi" -
came to $55. It was a great eating experience, but I did miss
interacting/ chatting with the itamaesans.


Das

Das wrote:

>

> Has anybody else had this 'white salmon' before? I had not even heard
> of it - either in sushi bars or in this ng (in the past 5yrs). What is
> it?

I saw it offered at a sushi bar a year or so ago, but forgot to try it.

--
Dan

"Das" > wrote in message
m...
<snip>
> I liked the white salmon ($4 /2pcs) as well - tasted like a mild
> version of regular salmon. It looked like albino salmon - white (like
> scallop) with slighter paler striations of fat.
> Has anybody else had this 'white salmon' before? I had not even heard
> of it - either in sushi bars or in this ng (in the past 5yrs). What is
> it?

This is a mystery. I have never seen it but I see that some establishments
do list a
"white salmon" as sushi neta.
In Japan, "white salmon" (ie Shiro Jake) means Chum Salmon. Sometimes it
refers to
a Chum Salmon which arrives out of season off Northern Japan and is called
Tokishirazu.
A Search through google Japan resulted in no hits for white salmon other
than this.
I am aware that in the Pacific Northwest some wild salmon caught are
occasionally
"white salmon" in that they simply did not develop the pink flesh color
which comes from
eating crustacaeans in the ocean. But I have heard that these fish are not
abundant enough to
be a commercial category on their own. Furthermore, has anyone ever seen
"white salmon"
being sold in a fish store?
Anyway, just as "White Tuna" turned out to be Albacore and in some cases
Escolar, I suspect
this "white salmon" might be something entirely different from a salmon.
Maybe.

All Atlantic wild or farmed (slugs) salmon are all white unless there is dye
additive in their feed in the case of farmed. All Chum salmon, and some
Spring Salmon are white regardless of diet. There seem to be more white
Springs (chinook, king, tyee are common names for Springs) than red Springs
regardless of diet. Sockeye, Pink and Coho are generally naturally red.

Conclusion: 90% of that red salmon you are eating is white salmon from the
Atlantic that has been farmed and dyed.


"Musashi" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "Das" > wrote in message
> m...
> <snip>
> > I liked the white salmon ($4 /2pcs) as well - tasted like a mild
> > version of regular salmon. It looked like albino salmon - white (like
> > scallop) with slighter paler striations of fat.
> > Has anybody else had this 'white salmon' before? I had not even heard
> > of it - either in sushi bars or in this ng (in the past 5yrs). What is
> > it?
>
> This is a mystery. I have never seen it but I see that some establishments
> do list a
> "white salmon" as sushi neta.
> In Japan, "white salmon" (ie Shiro Jake) means Chum Salmon. Sometimes it
> refers to
> a Chum Salmon which arrives out of season off Northern Japan and is called
> Tokishirazu.
> A Search through google Japan resulted in no hits for white salmon other
> than this.
> I am aware that in the Pacific Northwest some wild salmon caught are
> occasionally
> "white salmon" in that they simply did not develop the pink flesh color
> which comes from
> eating crustacaeans in the ocean. But I have heard that these fish are not
> abundant enough to
> be a commercial category on their own. Furthermore, has anyone ever seen
> "white salmon"
> being sold in a fish store?
> Anyway, just as "White Tuna" turned out to be Albacore and in some cases
> Escolar, I suspect
> this "white salmon" might be something entirely different from a salmon.
> Maybe.
>
>
>
>

I see lots of "Atlantic salmon" which I presume are farmed, as well as "Wild
Salmon"
in the fish markets. Both are pink flesh, neither are white fleshed.
So regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of your startements, either way
it doesn't
explain the "white salmon" mystery.


"Wee Willy" > wrote in message
news:uAY9c.43306$QO2.23652@pd7tw1no...
> All Atlantic wild or farmed (slugs) salmon are all white unless there is
dye
> additive in their feed in the case of farmed. All Chum salmon, and some
> Spring Salmon are white regardless of diet. There seem to be more white
> Springs (chinook, king, tyee are common names for Springs) than red
Springs
> regardless of diet. Sockeye, Pink and Coho are generally naturally red.
>
> Conclusion: 90% of that red salmon you are eating is white salmon from the
> Atlantic that has been farmed and dyed.
>
>
> "Musashi" > wrote in message
> . com...
> >
> > "Das" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > <snip>
> > > I liked the white salmon ($4 /2pcs) as well - tasted like a mild
> > > version of regular salmon. It looked like albino salmon - white (like
> > > scallop) with slighter paler striations of fat.
> > > Has anybody else had this 'white salmon' before? I had not even heard
> > > of it - either in sushi bars or in this ng (in the past 5yrs). What is
> > > it?
> >
> > This is a mystery. I have never seen it but I see that some
establishments
> > do list a
> > "white salmon" as sushi neta.
> > In Japan, "white salmon" (ie Shiro Jake) means Chum Salmon. Sometimes it
> > refers to
> > a Chum Salmon which arrives out of season off Northern Japan and is
called
> > Tokishirazu.
> > A Search through google Japan resulted in no hits for white salmon other
> > than this.
> > I am aware that in the Pacific Northwest some wild salmon caught are
> > occasionally
> > "white salmon" in that they simply did not develop the pink flesh color
> > which comes from
> > eating crustacaeans in the ocean. But I have heard that these fish are
not
> > abundant enough to
> > be a commercial category on their own. Furthermore, has anyone ever seen
> > "white salmon"
> > being sold in a fish store?
> > Anyway, just as "White Tuna" turned out to be Albacore and in some cases
> > Escolar, I suspect
> > this "white salmon" might be something entirely different from a salmon.
> > Maybe.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

I don't see any mystery. White farmed salmon is either wild or farmed (but
not dyed) Atlantic. Since there is no such thing on the market as wild
Atlantic Salmon it has to be undyed farmed Atlantic Salmon or wild Spring
Salmon (very good) or wild Chum Salmon (yuch).

The coloured wild salmon you are seeing is likely Sockeye (very abundant and
very good), chum (abundant but yech again), pink (abundant but semi yech) or
red Spring ( very expensive and very good).

There is a very small amount of farmed Pacific Salmons available but the
species do not lend themselves to mass farming.




"Musashi" > wrote in message
. com...
> I see lots of "Atlantic salmon" which I presume are farmed, as well as
"Wild
> Salmon"
> in the fish markets. Both are pink flesh, neither are white fleshed.
> So regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of your startements, either
way
> it doesn't
> explain the "white salmon" mystery.
>
>
> "Wee Willy" > wrote in message
> news:uAY9c.43306$QO2.23652@pd7tw1no...
> > All Atlantic wild or farmed (slugs) salmon are all white unless there is
> dye
> > additive in their feed in the case of farmed. All Chum salmon, and
some
> > Spring Salmon are white regardless of diet. There seem to be more white
> > Springs (chinook, king, tyee are common names for Springs) than red
> Springs
> > regardless of diet. Sockeye, Pink and Coho are generally naturally red.
> >
> > Conclusion: 90% of that red salmon you are eating is white salmon from
the
> > Atlantic that has been farmed and dyed.
> >
> >
> > "Musashi" > wrote in message
> > . com...
> > >
> > > "Das" > wrote in message
> > > m...
> > > <snip>
> > > > I liked the white salmon ($4 /2pcs) as well - tasted like a mild
> > > > version of regular salmon. It looked like albino salmon - white
(like
> > > > scallop) with slighter paler striations of fat.
> > > > Has anybody else had this 'white salmon' before? I had not even
heard
> > > > of it - either in sushi bars or in this ng (in the past 5yrs). What
is
> > > > it?
> > >
> > > This is a mystery. I have never seen it but I see that some
> establishments
> > > do list a
> > > "white salmon" as sushi neta.
> > > In Japan, "white salmon" (ie Shiro Jake) means Chum Salmon. Sometimes
it
> > > refers to
> > > a Chum Salmon which arrives out of season off Northern Japan and is
> called
> > > Tokishirazu.
> > > A Search through google Japan resulted in no hits for white salmon
other
> > > than this.
> > > I am aware that in the Pacific Northwest some wild salmon caught are
> > > occasionally
> > > "white salmon" in that they simply did not develop the pink flesh
color
> > > which comes from
> > > eating crustacaeans in the ocean. But I have heard that these fish are
> not
> > > abundant enough to
> > > be a commercial category on their own. Furthermore, has anyone ever
seen
> > > "white salmon"
> > > being sold in a fish store?
> > > Anyway, just as "White Tuna" turned out to be Albacore and in some
cases
> > > Escolar, I suspect
> > > this "white salmon" might be something entirely different from a
salmon.
> > > Maybe.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"Wee Willy" > wrote in message
news:YiZ9c.43710$QO2.12565@pd7tw1no...
> I don't see any mystery. White farmed salmon is either wild or farmed
(but
> not dyed) Atlantic. Since there is no such thing on the market as wild
> Atlantic Salmon it has to be undyed farmed Atlantic Salmon or wild Spring
> Salmon (very good) or wild Chum Salmon (yuch).

Have you ever seen "White Salmon" sold in a fish market?


>
> The coloured wild salmon you are seeing is likely Sockeye (very abundant
and
> very good), chum (abundant but yech again), pink (abundant but semi yech)
or
> red Spring ( very expensive and very good).
>

The fish I see marked as "wild" in fish markets vary between King, Coho and
Sockeye.
They are frequently marked that way. But every one of them is pink, not
white.

"Wee Willy" > wrote in message
news:YiZ9c.43710$QO2.12565@pd7tw1no...
> I don't see any mystery. White farmed salmon is either wild or
farmed (but
> not dyed) Atlantic. Since there is no such thing on the market as
wild
> Atlantic Salmon it has to be undyed farmed Atlantic Salmon or wild
Spring
> Salmon (very good) or wild Chum Salmon (yuch).
>
> The coloured wild salmon you are seeing is likely Sockeye (very
abundant and
> very good), chum (abundant but yech again), pink (abundant but semi
yech) or
> red Spring ( very expensive and very good).
>
> There is a very small amount of farmed Pacific Salmons available but
the
> species do not lend themselves to mass farming.
>

That might be true for the US market but I have had allegedly wild
commercial salmon from Ireland (inevitably Atlantic and it was very
good). It was of course red not white. White salmon is something new
to me tho' pink has been available for a long time.



--
James V. Silverton
Potomac, Maryland, USA

It was a white Chinook Salmon-common here in BC.
Judged by many-including myself- to be the very best eating 'White
Spring' Salmon as it's known here brings a lower price because it
lacks the red colouration.
Why it's white is still a matter of debate among scientists.
Salmon gain their red colouration from what they eat-Krill/Shrimp even
Plankton in the case of Sockeye but the White Spring doesn't.
Whether or not White Spring tastes as good as/better than Red Spring
is a perennial topic of discussion wherever BC Salmon afficionados
gather.They are predominantly a fall-run fish and often have a strong
musk odour that puts many people off-once cleaned though they have no
odour at all.
Over the years many campaigns have tried to promote White Spring as
the quality product it is-I recall a movement ot rename it 'Ivory
Salmon'.
Last year some high end restaurant in New York gained some press by
paying top price for fresh troll caught White Spring.
The flesh does have a smoothness that other Salmon lack.

On 29 Mar 2004 07:29:38 -0800, (Das) wrote:
>
>Has anybody else had this 'white salmon' before? I had not even heard
>of it - either in sushi bars or in this ng (in the past 5yrs). What is
>it?
>

"Sam Salmon" > wrote in message
...
> It was a white Chinook Salmon-common here in BC.
> Judged by many-including myself- to be the very best eating 'White
> Spring' Salmon as it's known here brings a lower price because it
> lacks the red colouration.
> Why it's white is still a matter of debate among scientists.
> Salmon gain their red colouration from what they eat-Krill/Shrimp even
> Plankton in the case of Sockeye but the White Spring doesn't.
> Whether or not White Spring tastes as good as/better than Red Spring
> is a perennial topic of discussion wherever BC Salmon afficionados
> gather.They are predominantly a fall-run fish and often have a strong
> musk odour that puts many people off-once cleaned though they have no
> odour at all.
> Over the years many campaigns have tried to promote White Spring as
> the quality product it is-I recall a movement ot rename it 'Ivory
> Salmon'.
> Last year some high end restaurant in New York gained some press by
> paying top price for fresh troll caught White Spring.
> The flesh does have a smoothness that other Salmon lack.
>
> On 29 Mar 2004 07:29:38 -0800, (Das) wrote:
> >
> >Has anybody else had this 'white salmon' before? I had not even heard
> >of it - either in sushi bars or in this ng (in the past 5yrs). What is
> >it?
> >

This begs the question as to if this "white salmon" is also treated to
freezing and/or
salt, vingar marination as are most salmon served as neta in sushi
restaurants.
BTW channel surfing last night I caught a few minutes of Emeril making
Salmon
carpaccio using Alaskan King salmon. He prepared it raw soaking it in olive
oil
and pounding it flat. No freezing, no salting, no marination. Here he was
doing something even
an Itamae from Hokkaido would not do.

"Musashi" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "Sam Salmon" > wrote in message
> ...
> > It was a white Chinook Salmon-common here in BC.
> > Judged by many-including myself- to be the very best eating 'White
> > Spring' Salmon as it's known here brings a lower price because it
> > lacks the red colouration.
> > Why it's white is still a matter of debate among scientists.
> > Salmon gain their red colouration from what they eat-Krill/Shrimp even
> > Plankton in the case of Sockeye but the White Spring doesn't.
> > Whether or not White Spring tastes as good as/better than Red Spring
> > is a perennial topic of discussion wherever BC Salmon afficionados
> > gather.They are predominantly a fall-run fish and often have a strong
> > musk odour that puts many people off-once cleaned though they have no
> > odour at all.
> > Over the years many campaigns have tried to promote White Spring as
> > the quality product it is-I recall a movement ot rename it 'Ivory
> > Salmon'.
> > Last year some high end restaurant in New York gained some press by
> > paying top price for fresh troll caught White Spring.
> > The flesh does have a smoothness that other Salmon lack.
> >
> > On 29 Mar 2004 07:29:38 -0800, (Das) wrote:
> > >
> > >Has anybody else had this 'white salmon' before? I had not even heard
> > >of it - either in sushi bars or in this ng (in the past 5yrs). What is
> > >it?
> > >
>
> This begs the question as to if this "white salmon" is also treated to
> freezing and/or
> salt, vingar marination as are most salmon served as neta in sushi
> restaurants.
> BTW channel surfing last night I caught a few minutes of Emeril making
> Salmon
> carpaccio using Alaskan King salmon. He prepared it raw soaking it in
olive
> oil
> and pounding it flat. No freezing, no salting, no marination. Here he was
> doing something even
> an Itamae from Hokkaido would not do.
>
And this means?
They serve wild sockeye at sushi joints around here and none are salted or
marinated in any way. Maybe it was frozen, but it sure tastes great.

"F t B" > wrote in message
news:ltJac.172$dW5.20@edtnps89...
>
> "Musashi" > wrote in message
> . com...
> >
> > "Sam Salmon" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > It was a white Chinook Salmon-common here in BC.
> > > Judged by many-including myself- to be the very best eating 'White
> > > Spring' Salmon as it's known here brings a lower price because it
> > > lacks the red colouration.
> > > Why it's white is still a matter of debate among scientists.
> > > Salmon gain their red colouration from what they eat-Krill/Shrimp even
> > > Plankton in the case of Sockeye but the White Spring doesn't.
> > > Whether or not White Spring tastes as good as/better than Red Spring
> > > is a perennial topic of discussion wherever BC Salmon afficionados
> > > gather.They are predominantly a fall-run fish and often have a strong
> > > musk odour that puts many people off-once cleaned though they have no
> > > odour at all.
> > > Over the years many campaigns have tried to promote White Spring as
> > > the quality product it is-I recall a movement ot rename it 'Ivory
> > > Salmon'.
> > > Last year some high end restaurant in New York gained some press by
> > > paying top price for fresh troll caught White Spring.
> > > The flesh does have a smoothness that other Salmon lack.
> > >
> > > On 29 Mar 2004 07:29:38 -0800, (Das) wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Has anybody else had this 'white salmon' before? I had not even heard
> > > >of it - either in sushi bars or in this ng (in the past 5yrs). What
is
> > > >it?
> > > >
> >
> > This begs the question as to if this "white salmon" is also treated to
> > freezing and/or
> > salt, vingar marination as are most salmon served as neta in sushi
> > restaurants.
> > BTW channel surfing last night I caught a few minutes of Emeril making
> > Salmon
> > carpaccio using Alaskan King salmon. He prepared it raw soaking it in
> olive
> > oil
> > and pounding it flat. No freezing, no salting, no marination. Here he
was
> > doing something even
> > an Itamae from Hokkaido would not do.
> >
> And this means?
> They serve wild sockeye at sushi joints around here and none are salted or
> marinated in any way. Maybe it was frozen, but it sure tastes great.
>
>
And we westcoasters eat non frozen non salted non marinated Spring, Coho
and Sockeye raw and fresh every time we get a chance. That goes for
quality Sushi reastaurants as well as at home. Between catching our own and
buying commercial that gives us about a four month season.

"Wee Willy" > wrote in message
news:wRLac.1915$oR5.319@pd7tw3no...
>
> "F t B" > wrote in message
> news:ltJac.172$dW5.20@edtnps89...
> >
> > "Musashi" > wrote in message
> > . com...
> > >
> > > "Sam Salmon" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > It was a white Chinook Salmon-common here in BC.
> > > > Judged by many-including myself- to be the very best eating 'White
> > > > Spring' Salmon as it's known here brings a lower price because it
> > > > lacks the red colouration.
> > > > Why it's white is still a matter of debate among scientists.
> > > > Salmon gain their red colouration from what they eat-Krill/Shrimp
even
> > > > Plankton in the case of Sockeye but the White Spring doesn't.
> > > > Whether or not White Spring tastes as good as/better than Red Spring
> > > > is a perennial topic of discussion wherever BC Salmon afficionados
> > > > gather.They are predominantly a fall-run fish and often have a
strong
> > > > musk odour that puts many people off-once cleaned though they have
no
> > > > odour at all.
> > > > Over the years many campaigns have tried to promote White Spring as
> > > > the quality product it is-I recall a movement ot rename it 'Ivory
> > > > Salmon'.
> > > > Last year some high end restaurant in New York gained some press by
> > > > paying top price for fresh troll caught White Spring.
> > > > The flesh does have a smoothness that other Salmon lack.
> > > >
> > > > On 29 Mar 2004 07:29:38 -0800, (Das) wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >Has anybody else had this 'white salmon' before? I had not even
heard
> > > > >of it - either in sushi bars or in this ng (in the past 5yrs). What
> is
> > > > >it?
> > > > >
> > >
> > > This begs the question as to if this "white salmon" is also treated to
> > > freezing and/or
> > > salt, vingar marination as are most salmon served as neta in sushi
> > > restaurants.
> > > BTW channel surfing last night I caught a few minutes of Emeril making
> > > Salmon
> > > carpaccio using Alaskan King salmon. He prepared it raw soaking it in
> > olive
> > > oil
> > > and pounding it flat. No freezing, no salting, no marination. Here he
> was
> > > doing something even
> > > an Itamae from Hokkaido would not do.
> > >
> > And this means?
> > They serve wild sockeye at sushi joints around here and none are salted
or
> > marinated in any way. Maybe it was frozen, but it sure tastes great.
> >
> >
> And we westcoasters eat non frozen non salted non marinated Spring, Coho
> and Sockeye raw and fresh every time we get a chance. That goes for
> quality Sushi reastaurants as well as at home. Between catching our own
and
> buying commercial that gives us about a four month season.
>

Salmon is not a traditional sushi neta (ingredient). The reason for that
being not only that salmon
is caught much further north than the Tokyo (formerly Edo, where Edo-mae
zushi, now known as Nigirizushi in Japan and as just "sushi" in the rest of
the word was developed) area but that the Japanese have known for a long
time that wild pacific salmon (this is before farming existed) can sometimes
contain parasites. Hence there are to this day many itamae in Japan who
simply don't
work with Salmon. Others do serve salmon and this is related somewhat to the
advancement
of salmon farming. Otherwise, many itamae do freeze and thaw salmon,a
practice learned from the
aboriginal Ainu, and/or salt and marinate with vinegar.
If you order salmon in a genuine Japanese-run sushi restaurant in the United
States, the chances are
good that the fresh raw salmon you ordered has been frozen and thawed and/or
marinated.
When salmon is marinated the color changes to a brownish color which is
unappetizing, so the
itamae will trim off all those parts, so what you see in the case at the
counter will look like just
plain raw salmon.
On the other hand some people have suggested that farmed salmon has a less
chance of carrying
any parasites. I myself have eaten salmon both farmed and wild which I knew
was not
frozen, and was not marinated, and I didn't have any problems.