(MahnToh) wrote in message om>...
> Most of the time when I frequent my favorite sushi bars (the real
> deals) and say "omakase itashimase" I end up getting sushi only.
>
> Then I see some other customers in the joint getting maybe a similar
> deal and they get the cooked food. I know I'm missing out, maybe not
> necessarily with the price.
>
> So what would one have to say in Japanese to a sushi chef (hopefully
> two words or less with "omakase"), so that I'll get hooked up with the
> nice cooked little dishes from the kitchen in addition?

i'm not sure where it came from but my take has always been that at a
sushi place the offerings from the kitchen are generally not up to par
quality-wise (compared to the sushi, but there are exceptions) so i
would say that you weren't necessarily "missing out".

i imagine that the typical chef tailors his choice(s) based on his
knowledge/understanding of the customer's tastes & preferences; last
friday at lunch my chef served me an ayu(?) broiled. i was surprised
that he had one - IIRC it's found only in one lake (at high altitude)
in japan & has to be special ordered. but the point is that it's
unlikely that he would have served it to someone who wouldn't
recognize/appreciate the significance/nuances; i saved the bitter part
(eaten for good luck) for last. at another well-regarded (although
still somewhat a secret) place here in LA (sushi sushi in beverly
hills) i noticed that another customer had ordered omakase and was
receiving very pedestrian orders. but she was also reading a book
while seated at the bar!

one other thought, which may not necessarily apply in this situation:
chefs do have 'a' lists & 'b' lists. this can be reflected in the type
of initial appetizers offered as well as complimentary dishes offered
during the course of the evening. making the transition from 'b' to
'a' is not something that happens quickly very often, and in some
cases just may not be possible. YMMV.

wrote in message . com>...
> (MahnToh) wrote in message om>...
> > Most of the time when I frequent my favorite sushi bars (the real
> > deals) and say "omakase itashimase" I end up getting sushi only.
> >
> > Then I see some other customers in the joint getting maybe a similar
> > deal and they get the cooked food. I know I'm missing out, maybe not
> > necessarily with the price.
> >
> > So what would one have to say in Japanese to a sushi chef (hopefully
> > two words or less with "omakase"), so that I'll get hooked up with the
> > nice cooked little dishes from the kitchen in addition?
>
> i'm not sure where it came from but my take has always been that at a
> sushi place the offerings from the kitchen are generally not up to par
> quality-wise (compared to the sushi, but there are exceptions) so i
> would say that you weren't necessarily "missing out".
>
> i imagine that the typical chef tailors his choice(s) based on his
> knowledge/understanding of the customer's tastes & preferences; last
> friday at lunch my chef served me an ayu(?) broiled. i was surprised
> that he had one - IIRC it's found only in one lake (at high altitude)
> in japan & has to be special ordered. but the point is that it's
> unlikely that he would have served it to someone who wouldn't
> recognize/appreciate the significance/nuances; i saved the bitter part
> (eaten for good luck) for last. at another well-regarded (although
> still somewhat a secret) place here in LA (sushi sushi in beverly
> hills) i noticed that another customer had ordered omakase and was
> receiving very pedestrian orders. but she was also reading a book
> while seated at the bar!
>
> one other thought, which may not necessarily apply in this situation:
> chefs do have 'a' lists & 'b' lists. this can be reflected in the type
> of initial appetizers offered as well as complimentary dishes offered
> during the course of the evening. making the transition from 'b' to
> 'a' is not something that happens quickly very often, and in some
> cases just may not be possible. YMMV.

Thanks to all those who replied, especially Musashi :-)

Goes to show that I can't just quote what I watched from "Shota No
Sushi" TV series and use it on a real life itamae necessarily ;-) So
what does "omakase itashimasu" really mean and how is that more
"honorable" than "omakase shimasu"?

Also what does (something that sounds like) "kahmbee deshta" really
mean? In the subtitles it translated roughly too "too freshly
beautiful".

> wrote in message
om...
> (MahnToh) wrote in message
om>...
> > Most of the time when I frequent my favorite sushi bars (the real
> > deals) and say "omakase itashimase" I end up getting sushi only.
> >
> > Then I see some other customers in the joint getting maybe a similar
> > deal and they get the cooked food. I know I'm missing out, maybe not
> > necessarily with the price.
> >
> > So what would one have to say in Japanese to a sushi chef (hopefully
> > two words or less with "omakase"), so that I'll get hooked up with the
> > nice cooked little dishes from the kitchen in addition?
>
> i'm not sure where it came from but my take has always been that at a
> sushi place the offerings from the kitchen are generally not up to par
> quality-wise (compared to the sushi, but there are exceptions) so i
> would say that you weren't necessarily "missing out".
>
> i imagine that the typical chef tailors his choice(s) based on his
> knowledge/understanding of the customer's tastes & preferences; last
> friday at lunch my chef served me an ayu(?) broiled. i was surprised
> that he had one - IIRC it's found only in one lake (at high altitude)
> in japan & has to be special ordered.

That sounds like some BS to me.
Ayu, a small native Japanese trout is a popularsport fish in Japan.It is
also farm raised in
Japan, and can be purchased at any Japanese food store in the New York area
for $3.99
although it is not carried year round. As a wild fish it is found in many
streams throughout
Japan north to south, including one subspecies as far south as Okinawa.
In Japan some restaurants claim their "ayu" is from a so-and-so place and it
wild/natural,
but I doubt that occurs realistically in the US.
The only "special" ayu I've had was in a Tempura Shop serving baby ayu from
Lake Biwa - the largest lake in Japan and hardly at high altitudes.
For that matter, Ayu is not a high altitude fish anyway.

http://www.town.toei.aichi.jp/kanko/ayutsuri_e.html

http://www.city.setagaya.tokyo.jp/to...a/fish/ayu.htm







but the point is that it's
> unlikely that he would have served it to someone who wouldn't
> recognize/appreciate the significance/nuances; i saved the bitter part
> (eaten for good luck) for last. at another well-regarded (although
> still somewhat a secret) place here in LA (sushi sushi in beverly
> hills) i noticed that another customer had ordered omakase and was
> receiving very pedestrian orders. but she was also reading a book
> while seated at the bar!
>
> one other thought, which may not necessarily apply in this situation:
> chefs do have 'a' lists & 'b' lists. this can be reflected in the type
> of initial appetizers offered as well as complimentary dishes offered
> during the course of the evening. making the transition from 'b' to
> 'a' is not something that happens quickly very often, and in some
> cases just may not be possible. YMMV.

> wrote in message
om...
> (MahnToh) wrote in message
om>...
> > Most of the time when I frequent my favorite sushi bars (the real
> > deals) and say "omakase itashimase" I end up getting sushi only.
> >
> > Then I see some other customers in the joint getting maybe a similar
> > deal and they get the cooked food. I know I'm missing out, maybe not
> > necessarily with the price.
> >
> > So what would one have to say in Japanese to a sushi chef (hopefully
> > two words or less with "omakase"), so that I'll get hooked up with the
> > nice cooked little dishes from the kitchen in addition?
>
> i'm not sure where it came from but my take has always been that at a
> sushi place the offerings from the kitchen are generally not up to par
> quality-wise (compared to the sushi, but there are exceptions) so i
> would say that you weren't necessarily "missing out".
>
> i imagine that the typical chef tailors his choice(s) based on his
> knowledge/understanding of the customer's tastes & preferences; last
> friday at lunch my chef served me an ayu(?) broiled. i was surprised
> that he had one - IIRC it's found only in one lake (at high altitude)
> in japan & has to be special ordered.

That sounds like some BS to me.
Ayu, a small native Japanese trout is a popularsport fish in Japan.It is
also farm raised in
Japan, and can be purchased at any Japanese food store in the New York area
for $3.99
although it is not carried year round. As a wild fish it is found in many
streams throughout
Japan north to south, including one subspecies as far south as Okinawa.
In Japan some restaurants claim their "ayu" is from a so-and-so place and it
wild/natural,
but I doubt that occurs realistically in the US.
The only "special" ayu I've had was in a Tempura Shop serving baby ayu from
Lake Biwa - the largest lake in Japan and hardly at high altitudes.
For that matter, Ayu is not a high altitude fish anyway.

http://www.town.toei.aichi.jp/kanko/ayutsuri_e.html

http://www.city.setagaya.tokyo.jp/to...a/fish/ayu.htm







but the point is that it's
> unlikely that he would have served it to someone who wouldn't
> recognize/appreciate the significance/nuances; i saved the bitter part
> (eaten for good luck) for last. at another well-regarded (although
> still somewhat a secret) place here in LA (sushi sushi in beverly
> hills) i noticed that another customer had ordered omakase and was
> receiving very pedestrian orders. but she was also reading a book
> while seated at the bar!
>
> one other thought, which may not necessarily apply in this situation:
> chefs do have 'a' lists & 'b' lists. this can be reflected in the type
> of initial appetizers offered as well as complimentary dishes offered
> during the course of the evening. making the transition from 'b' to
> 'a' is not something that happens quickly very often, and in some
> cases just may not be possible. YMMV.

"MahnToh" > wrote in message
om...
> wrote in message
. com>...
> > (MahnToh) wrote in message
om>...
> > > Most of the time when I frequent my favorite sushi bars (the real
> > > deals) and say "omakase itashimase" I end up getting sushi only.
> > >
> > > Then I see some other customers in the joint getting maybe a similar
> > > deal and they get the cooked food. I know I'm missing out, maybe not
> > > necessarily with the price.
> > >
> > > So what would one have to say in Japanese to a sushi chef (hopefully
> > > two words or less with "omakase"), so that I'll get hooked up with the
> > > nice cooked little dishes from the kitchen in addition?
> >
> > i'm not sure where it came from but my take has always been that at a
> > sushi place the offerings from the kitchen are generally not up to par
> > quality-wise (compared to the sushi, but there are exceptions) so i
> > would say that you weren't necessarily "missing out".
> >
> > i imagine that the typical chef tailors his choice(s) based on his
> > knowledge/understanding of the customer's tastes & preferences; last
> > friday at lunch my chef served me an ayu(?) broiled. i was surprised
> > that he had one - IIRC it's found only in one lake (at high altitude)
> > in japan & has to be special ordered. but the point is that it's
> > unlikely that he would have served it to someone who wouldn't
> > recognize/appreciate the significance/nuances; i saved the bitter part
> > (eaten for good luck) for last. at another well-regarded (although
> > still somewhat a secret) place here in LA (sushi sushi in beverly
> > hills) i noticed that another customer had ordered omakase and was
> > receiving very pedestrian orders. but she was also reading a book
> > while seated at the bar!
> >
> > one other thought, which may not necessarily apply in this situation:
> > chefs do have 'a' lists & 'b' lists. this can be reflected in the type
> > of initial appetizers offered as well as complimentary dishes offered
> > during the course of the evening. making the transition from 'b' to
> > 'a' is not something that happens quickly very often, and in some
> > cases just may not be possible. YMMV.
>
> Thanks to all those who replied, especially Musashi :-)
>
> Goes to show that I can't just quote what I watched from "Shota No
> Sushi" TV series and use it on a real life itamae necessarily ;-) So
> what does "omakase itashimasu" really mean and how is that more
> "honorable" than "omakase shimasu"?
>

I've never seen that show. I will go check if my local Japanese store has it
in their
rentals.
The verb "to do" is;
SURU = informal tense
SHIMASU = formal
ITASHIMASU = extremely formal, for use in very formal settings or in
addressing
someone extremely high in rank

There really is no conceivable situation where a Customer would use the most
formal tense
to a Itamae unless he was joking around. Remember that in Japanese tradition
the Customer
ranks higher than the "server".

> Also what does (something that sounds like) "kahmbee deshta" really
> mean? In the subtitles it translated roughly too "too freshly
> beautiful".

Does not ring a bell at all.
The "Deshita" is "was".
But no word that sounds like "kahmbee" comes to mind offhand.

Musashi

"Musashi" > wrote in message news:9RbJc.1836$.
> The only "special" ayu I've had was in a Tempura Shop serving baby ayu
from
> Lake Biwa - the largest lake in Japan and hardly at high altitudes.

Brings back some memories. Riding the train to Otsu on Lake Biwa to visit
Toray Engineering factory automation group. Ayu was good also.

"Musashi" > wrote in message news:9RbJc.1836$.
> The only "special" ayu I've had was in a Tempura Shop serving baby ayu
from
> Lake Biwa - the largest lake in Japan and hardly at high altitudes.

Brings back some memories. Riding the train to Otsu on Lake Biwa to visit
Toray Engineering factory automation group. Ayu was good also.

"Musashi" > wrote in message news:<9RbJc.1836> om>...
> That sounds like some BS to me.
> Ayu, a small native Japanese trout is a popularsport fish in Japan.It is
> also farm raised in
> Japan, and can be purchased at any Japanese food store in the New York area
> for $3.99
> although it is not carried year round. As a wild fish it is found in many
> streams throughout
> Japan north to south, including one subspecies as far south as Okinawa.
> In Japan some restaurants claim their "ayu" is from a so-and-so place and it
> wild/natural,
> but I doubt that occurs realistically in the US.
> The only "special" ayu I've had was in a Tempura Shop serving baby ayu from
> Lake Biwa - the largest lake in Japan and hardly at high altitudes.
> For that matter, Ayu is not a high altitude fish anyway.
>
> http://www.town.toei.aichi.jp/kanko/ayutsuri_e.html
>
> http://www.city.setagaya.tokyo.jp/to...a/fish/ayu.htm

sorry. wasn't ayu. but i don't remember the japanese name. i'll ask
the next time i see him.

> wrote in message
om...
> "Musashi" > wrote in message news:<9RbJc.1836>
om>...
> > That sounds like some BS to me.
> > Ayu, a small native Japanese trout is a popularsport fish in Japan.It is
> > also farm raised in
> > Japan, and can be purchased at any Japanese food store in the New York
area
> > for $3.99
> > although it is not carried year round. As a wild fish it is found in
many
> > streams throughout
> > Japan north to south, including one subspecies as far south as Okinawa.
> > In Japan some restaurants claim their "ayu" is from a so-and-so place
and it
> > wild/natural,
> > but I doubt that occurs realistically in the US.
> > The only "special" ayu I've had was in a Tempura Shop serving baby ayu
from
> > Lake Biwa - the largest lake in Japan and hardly at high altitudes.
> > For that matter, Ayu is not a high altitude fish anyway.
> >
> > http://www.town.toei.aichi.jp/kanko/ayutsuri_e.html
> >
> >
http://www.city.setagaya.tokyo.jp/to...a/fish/ayu.htm
>
> sorry. wasn't ayu. but i don't remember the japanese name. i'll ask
> the next time i see him.

Yamame or Iwana maybe. Both small trout.
Although both are found in far more than "one place" in Japan in the wild,
and they are farmed and stocked.

Me too - first trip to Japan (at age 12), two weeks with my folks, dad
stayed in Tokyo all week negotiating steel deals and coming out on the
weekend, mom and I stayed in an old ryokan near the lake. First exposure to
mixed bathing, etc.... Quite an interesting time - learning some of a new
language and customs, mosquito coils, morning tea/fish/rice... Really an
experience for a young American kid.

Ed


"Michael" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Musashi" > wrote in message news:9RbJc.1836$.
> > The only "special" ayu I've had was in a Tempura Shop serving baby ayu
> from
> > Lake Biwa - the largest lake in Japan and hardly at high altitudes.
>
> Brings back some memories. Riding the train to Otsu on Lake Biwa to visit
> Toray Engineering factory automation group. Ayu was good also.
>
>

Me too - first trip to Japan (at age 12), two weeks with my folks, dad
stayed in Tokyo all week negotiating steel deals and coming out on the
weekend, mom and I stayed in an old ryokan near the lake. First exposure to
mixed bathing, etc.... Quite an interesting time - learning some of a new
language and customs, mosquito coils, morning tea/fish/rice... Really an
experience for a young American kid.

Ed


"Michael" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Musashi" > wrote in message news:9RbJc.1836$.
> > The only "special" ayu I've had was in a Tempura Shop serving baby ayu
> from
> > Lake Biwa - the largest lake in Japan and hardly at high altitudes.
>
> Brings back some memories. Riding the train to Otsu on Lake Biwa to visit
> Toray Engineering factory automation group. Ayu was good also.
>
>

(MahnToh) wrote in message
> what does "omakase itashimasu" really mean and how is that more
> "honorable" than "omakase shimasu"?

The Japanese language is very hierarchy conscious. For example, to ask
someone to eat, it would be "kuu" for your child (lower in rank than
you), "taberu" for your friend (equal to you), or "meshiagaru" for
your boss (higher than you). Using a higher rank verb for a lower rank
person either means you're joking or you don't know the language, but
using a lower rank verb for a higher person is an insult.

Tippi wrote:

>
> The Japanese language is very hierarchy conscious. For example, to ask
> someone to eat, it would be "kuu" for your child (lower in rank than
> you), "taberu" for your friend (equal to you), or "meshiagaru" for
> your boss (higher than you). Using a higher rank verb for a lower rank
> person either means you're joking or you don't know the language, but
> using a lower rank verb for a higher person is an insult.

So then its always better to use a equal or "higher" tense, so that
you could at least be seen as not knowing as opposed to insulting.

I would think that a sushi chef would cut a non-Asian some slack on
the wrong honorific tense. And what level would a sushi chef be on?
Or if you hold him in the highest respect?

--
Dan

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Tippi wrote:
>
> >
> > The Japanese language is very hierarchy conscious. For example, to ask
> > someone to eat, it would be "kuu" for your child (lower in rank than
> > you), "taberu" for your friend (equal to you), or "meshiagaru" for
> > your boss (higher than you). Using a higher rank verb for a lower rank
> > person either means you're joking or you don't know the language, but
> > using a lower rank verb for a higher person is an insult.
>
> So then its always better to use a equal or "higher" tense, so that
> you could at least be seen as not knowing as opposed to insulting.
>
> I would think that a sushi chef would cut a non-Asian some slack on
> the wrong honorific tense.

Most likely. No one Japanese expects non-Japanese to be fully familiar
with such tenses unless that person is obviously fluent in Japanese.

> And what level would a sushi chef be on?
> Or if you hold him in the highest respect?
>

In Japan the customer is always the highest rank.
Above the owner of the restaurant/store and above the employees.
Therefore you are entitled to use the lowest tense in speaking to a Itamae,
but
realistically most people use the "equal" tense due to its neutrality. Also
your itamae might be obviously older than you, in which case using the
lowest tense might make you look overly arrogant.
I personally use the "equal" tense as it makes it easier to establish a
talking relationship, which in turn makes it easier to find out whats fresh
and what he recommends today.

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Tippi wrote:
>
> >
> > The Japanese language is very hierarchy conscious. For example, to ask
> > someone to eat, it would be "kuu" for your child (lower in rank than
> > you), "taberu" for your friend (equal to you), or "meshiagaru" for
> > your boss (higher than you). Using a higher rank verb for a lower rank
> > person either means you're joking or you don't know the language, but
> > using a lower rank verb for a higher person is an insult.
>
> So then its always better to use a equal or "higher" tense, so that
> you could at least be seen as not knowing as opposed to insulting.
>
> I would think that a sushi chef would cut a non-Asian some slack on
> the wrong honorific tense.

Most likely. No one Japanese expects non-Japanese to be fully familiar
with such tenses unless that person is obviously fluent in Japanese.

> And what level would a sushi chef be on?
> Or if you hold him in the highest respect?
>

In Japan the customer is always the highest rank.
Above the owner of the restaurant/store and above the employees.
Therefore you are entitled to use the lowest tense in speaking to a Itamae,
but
realistically most people use the "equal" tense due to its neutrality. Also
your itamae might be obviously older than you, in which case using the
lowest tense might make you look overly arrogant.
I personally use the "equal" tense as it makes it easier to establish a
talking relationship, which in turn makes it easier to find out whats fresh
and what he recommends today.

Musashi wrote:

>
> In Japan the customer is always the highest rank.
> Above the owner of the restaurant/store and above the employees.
> Therefore you are entitled to use the lowest tense in speaking to a Itamae,
> but realistically most people use the "equal" tense due to its neutrality.


The customer is the king, er shogun.

> Also your itamae might be obviously older than you, in which case using the
> lowest tense might make you look overly arrogant.


Most quality sushi chefs are older than me. Some of the lesser skilled chefs
are younger than me. A few are about the same age.


> I personally use the "equal" tense as it makes it easier to establish a
> talking relationship, which in turn makes it easier to find out whats fresh
> and what he recommends today.

Making friends with your chef is a good way to get better cuts and extras.
I enjoy a good chat with the chef, and I learn a lot from what they say.

--
Dan

Dan Logcher > wrote
> I would think that a sushi chef would cut a non-Asian some slack on
> the wrong honorific tense.

Dan, that borders on a racist remark. Are all Asians Japanese? I am
Chinese and would be offended if I am expected to speak Japanese
fluently.

Tippi wrote:

> Dan Logcher > wrote
>
>>I would think that a sushi chef would cut a non-Asian some slack on
>>the wrong honorific tense.
>>
>
> Dan, that borders on a racist remark. Are all Asians Japanese? I am
> Chinese and would be offended if I am expected to speak Japanese
> fluently.

I think you're being a bit to sensitive and making something out of nothing.
In the context of this discussion, I was referring to only Japanese sushi
chefs. I have only found one non-Japanese sushi chef that speaks Japanese,
and only because he grew up in Japan.

What would be the point in speaking Japanese to a non-Japanese sushi chef?

--
Dan

Tippi wrote:

> Dan Logcher > wrote
>
>>I would think that a sushi chef would cut a non-Asian some slack on
>>the wrong honorific tense.
>>
>
> Dan, that borders on a racist remark. Are all Asians Japanese? I am
> Chinese and would be offended if I am expected to speak Japanese
> fluently.

I think you're being a bit to sensitive and making something out of nothing.
In the context of this discussion, I was referring to only Japanese sushi
chefs. I have only found one non-Japanese sushi chef that speaks Japanese,
and only because he grew up in Japan.

What would be the point in speaking Japanese to a non-Japanese sushi chef?

--
Dan

"Tippi" > wrote in message
om...
> Dan Logcher > wrote
> > I would think that a sushi chef would cut a non-Asian some slack on
> > the wrong honorific tense.
>
> Dan, that borders on a racist remark. Are all Asians Japanese? I am
> Chinese and would be offended if I am expected to speak Japanese
> fluently.

Tippi is right. I noted that slip and attempted to "correct it" in my
response
without highlighting it. Because knowing a bit about Dan, I was certain that
it was a merely a slip.

Musashi

"Tippi" > wrote in message
om...
> Dan Logcher > wrote
> > I would think that a sushi chef would cut a non-Asian some slack on
> > the wrong honorific tense.
>
> Dan, that borders on a racist remark. Are all Asians Japanese? I am
> Chinese and would be offended if I am expected to speak Japanese
> fluently.

Tippi is right. I noted that slip and attempted to "correct it" in my
response
without highlighting it. Because knowing a bit about Dan, I was certain that
it was a merely a slip.

Musashi

Tippi wrote:

> Dan Logcher > wrote
>
>>I would think that a sushi chef would cut a non-Asian some slack on
>>the wrong honorific tense.
>>
>
> Dan, that borders on a racist remark. Are all Asians Japanese? I am
> Chinese and would be offended if I am expected to speak Japanese
> fluently.

Of course you're not expected to speak Japanese, I was referring to me
using the wrong honorific tense.

--
Dan

Tippi wrote:

> Dan Logcher > wrote
>
>>I would think that a sushi chef would cut a non-Asian some slack on
>>the wrong honorific tense.
>>
>
> Dan, that borders on a racist remark. Are all Asians Japanese? I am
> Chinese and would be offended if I am expected to speak Japanese
> fluently.

Of course you're not expected to speak Japanese, I was referring to me
using the wrong honorific tense.

--
Dan