I enjoyed the discussion of kudingcha and found this.
http://www.itmonline.org/arts/kudingcha.htm

As a member of the Ilex (holly) family, that would make it first cousin
to yerba mate, also strong and bitter, and also full of medicinal
properties. The kudingcha has a high number of saponins. Somehow, it
wouldn't surprise me at all to see even more "teas" that are old
traditianla herbal medicines being introduced just as rooibos has
gained in popularity recently. C.W. Walker
http://millenia3dotnet.blogspot.com

In article . com>,
creativeaccents > wrote:
>I enjoyed the discussion of kudingcha and found this.
>http://www.itmonline.org/arts/kudingcha.htm
>
>As a member of the Ilex (holly) family, that would make it first cousin
>to yerba mate, also strong and bitter, and also full of medicinal

No wonder. When I bought kuding at a shop in Hong Kong which otherwise
only sold C sinensis, apart from a bit of jasmine, chrysanthemum and
other minor adulterants, I assumed it was real tea. I spent a few evenings
with many steeps and many temperatures until I realized that it compared
in foulness to no tea I had ever had, and among beverages only to mate.

It is allegedly medicinal. I can't vouch for that, though it does have
the usual qualification of vile flavor. It would take more than a
spoonful of sugar to correct.

And it wasn't even called kuding - it was "Szechuan single twist".
Because the leaves were so tightly rolled, I thought it was some kind
of extra bold oolong. I got it at a perfectly cleaned shop with lots
of glass and marble and staffed by two pretty young things with immaculate
manners, decent English, and whose only reply to my questions was
"It is a kind of pretty good tea. You like it." From now on, I'll only
shop in dingy old basement shops with an old married couple who have to
have a five-minute argument in Chinese before they arrive at a detailed
answer to my questions.

Older and wiser,

Rick.

Richard Chappell wrote:
> In article . com>,
> creativeaccents > wrote:
> >I enjoyed the discussion of kudingcha and found this.
> >http://www.itmonline.org/arts/kudingcha.htm
> >
> >As a member of the Ilex (holly) family, that would make it first cousin
> >to yerba mate, also strong and bitter, and also full of medicinal
>
> No wonder. When I bought kuding at a shop in Hong Kong which otherwise
> only sold C sinensis, apart from a bit of jasmine, chrysanthemum and
> other minor adulterants, I assumed it was real tea. I spent a few evenings
> with many steeps and many temperatures until I realized that it compared
> in foulness to no tea I had ever had, and among beverages only to mate.
>
> It is allegedly medicinal. I can't vouch for that, though it does have
> the usual qualification of vile flavor. It would take more than a
> spoonful of sugar to correct.
>
> And it wasn't even called kuding - it was "Szechuan single twist".
> Because the leaves were so tightly rolled, I thought it was some kind
> of extra bold oolong. I got it at a perfectly cleaned shop with lots
> of glass and marble and staffed by two pretty young things with immaculate
> manners, decent English, and whose only reply to my questions was
> "It is a kind of pretty good tea. You like it." From now on, I'll only
> shop in dingy old basement shops with an old married couple who have to
> have a five-minute argument in Chinese before they arrive at a detailed
> answer to my questions.
>
> Older and wiser,
>
> Rick.

Rick, I was right there myself not 2 months ago. And while I enjoy
bitter, I couldn't choke down 4oz. of Kudingcha. I swore up and down
and an anything holy that I could never enjoy this stuff... then it
happened. I had tried all manner of water temp., brewing, and amount of
needles. What it took was a short steep at a pretty close to boiling
temp in a gaiwan with two smaller needles. The sweetness character was
more pronounced and the bitterness was barely noticeable, usually it
had been severely the other way around.

I'm not saying you will have one of these epiphanies, but who knows...
I knew I never thought I would.

- Dominic