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Tetsubin
A while ago I received an old tetsubin from a dear friend of mine. She
got that little pot from her mother, who got it from an uncle who picked it up somewhere in Japan in the late 19th century. There´s nothing too special about this little pot, no stampings, markings, inscriptions or anything of that kind, but at least it shows no signs of rust. Right now it´s placed on display among my collection of antique teawares but I´m wondering if anyone on this esteemed group is using an unglazed tetsubin on a regular basis ??? Karsten [2005 autumnal Castleton in der Tasse] |
Tetsubin
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Tetsubin
> A while ago I received an old tetsubin from a dear friend of mine. She
> got that little pot from her mother, who got it from an uncle who > picked it up somewhere in Japan in the late 19th century. There´s > nothing too special about this little pot, no stampings, markings, > inscriptions or anything of that kind, but at least it shows no signs > of rust. Right now it´s placed on display among my collection of antique > teawares but I´m wondering if anyone on this esteemed group is using > an unglazed tetsubin on a regular basis ??? > Karsten [2005 autumnal Castleton in der Tasse] A Japanese iron kettle is meant to boil water, is it not? The glazed interior, brew-tea-in-it sort is a rather new development. One or two of our local stores carry unglazed Japanese iron kettles, the assumption being that they are used to boil water, not to brew. But then, I could be wrong and often am.... Michael [Heavy Roasted Shui Xian Yummy Yum] |
Tetsubin
Michael Plant wrote: > A Japanese iron kettle is meant to boil water, is it not? > The glazed interior, brew-tea-in-it sort is a rather new > development. One or two of our local stores carry > unglazed Japanese iron kettles, the assumption being > that they are used to boil water, not to brew. But then, > I could be wrong and often am.... > Michael [Heavy Roasted Shui Xian Yummy Yum] Surprisingly no. They are in fact used to brew in. Many (unglazed even) testsubin come with a metal strainer for tea. Tetsubin should not be used on a stovetop really though. You have to remove the tea quickly once finished and always rinse it out well and dry it completely so it does not rust. They are a pain, and do not offer any benefits and if anything add to the stress of tea time for me. However, they are used for water only mainly in modern Japanese tea ceremony so that may be where you were coming from. But originally and still they were used for both purposes. Like I said almost more often they were used secondarily for tea because the water was already boiling for heat/humidity so either some leaves were thrown into the pot or the water was used for making tea. I know a few Japanese friends whose family members still use unglazed tetsubin with the strainers for their daily tea, and many vendors quite clearly will tell you the proper way to use your tetsubin is for brewing tea not for boiling water on the stovetop. Hell, I know one old Chinese man who boils water in his yixing on a gas stove directly and then adds in his tea... who am I to argue? The pot looks really cool from the fire/tea on the outside too, so nothing is stopping you from using a tetsubin on the stove... and it is much more sturdy than Yixing so go for it if you want. I'm not aware of any secret tetsubin police ;) - Dominic |
Tetsubin
Yeah, no surprises here. However pretty it looks, it seems soo darn
impractical, weighs half a ton and screams to be used on an open fire all day long, something I don´t have or in the case of rust want around here or god forbid - in my brew. So I guess I keep it among my antique cups and pots, until, maybe that one day when I move into my cabin somewhere above the arctic circle and once in a blue moon feel like having some Gyokuro in style. Thanks for your input and again "hail the gaiwan" ! Karsten |
Tetsubin
Shui Xian! My large cache that I bought in China 2 years ago is all gone and
I cannot find acceptable price for good stuff here... Were you lucky enough to fins a good vendor? Is it Yi Wu Shui Xian? ... Is it? Is It? Is it? Sasha. "Michael Plant" > wrote in message ... >> A while ago I received an old tetsubin from a dear friend of mine. She >> got that little pot from her mother, who got it from an uncle who >> picked it up somewhere in Japan in the late 19th century. There´s >> nothing too special about this little pot, no stampings, markings, >> inscriptions or anything of that kind, but at least it shows no signs >> of rust. Right now it´s placed on display among my collection of antique >> teawares but I´m wondering if anyone on this esteemed group is using >> an unglazed tetsubin on a regular basis ??? >> Karsten [2005 autumnal Castleton in der Tasse] > > A Japanese iron kettle is meant to boil water, is it not? > The glazed interior, brew-tea-in-it sort is a rather new > development. One or two of our local stores carry > unglazed Japanese iron kettles, the assumption being > that they are used to boil water, not to brew. But then, > I could be wrong and often am.... > Michael [Heavy Roasted Shui Xian Yummy Yum] > |
Tetsubin
Dominic T. wrote:
> ... All of mine are unglazed (glazed tend to crack internally no > matter how much care is taken). ... they build up deposits (which > many Japanese see as a good thing), they rust, ... I wouldn't use a glazed one; when the glaze chips off, it might wind up in my gullet. I do have a big one that sits on the wood stove in winter; I rarely pour from it, but it's nice to know that hot water's always to hand. On the latter point: I wonder if, with regular brewing use, a coherent organic film might form and passivate the iron surface? This certainly happens with other cast-iron cookware, and is why a seasoned pot or pan shouldn't be scrubbed down to clean metal. It would be more likely if the pot used for brewing is also used for boiling, hence exposed to direct heat that would enhance polymerization and bonding of the carbonaceous film to the cast iron. -DM |
Tetsubin
DogMa wrote: > Dominic T. wrote: > > ... All of mine are unglazed (glazed tend to crack internally no > > matter how much care is taken). ... they build up deposits (which > > many Japanese see as a good thing), they rust, ... > On the latter point: I wonder if, with regular brewing use, a coherent > organic film might form and passivate the iron surface? This certainly > happens with other cast-iron cookware, and is why a seasoned pot or pan > shouldn't be scrubbed down to clean metal. It would be more likely if > the pot used for brewing is also used for boiling, hence exposed to > direct heat that would enhance polymerization and bonding of the > carbonaceous film to the cast iron. > > -DM Exactly, that is why they highly prize the mineral/misc. deposits that build up. They believe that the minerals are good for you and that the buildup breaks down a bit and adds the minerals to the brew... me, I don't quite see it in the same positive light. Although just as you said with other cast iron cookware once "seasoned" it does most likely seal up for the most part. I've seen some rough looking tetsubin, and I just can't put that together in my mind or stomach with a beautiful and delicate fresh green no matter how I try. Decoration and above fires fit the bill for me. - Dominic |
Tetsubin
Dog Ma wrote:
> It would be more likely if > the pot used for brewing is also used for boiling, hence exposed to > direct heat that would enhance polymerization and bonding of the > carbonaceous film to the cast iron. I thought of that myself lately, something like keeping some strong brew in the tetsubin, day after day, all day long, allowing the water to evaporate over time. It also depends on the actual water quality, content and composition of minerals yadda yadda. Right now I´m still on the border of Ostfriesland/Germania, with pretty soft (charcoal filtered tap-) water (great for Assam based Ostfriesen Blends, baaaaad for DJs) and my teawares stay relatively clean, whereas for example the tapwater in Darjeeling is fairly rich in minerals and I see stains of any kind develop quite rapidly, while basically brewing the same amount of the same teas. Dog Ma, it´s been a while ago for me but adressing polymerisation, maybe you or someone else knows if the presence of iron ions helps in forming insoluble complexes with the goodies (polyphenols) present in tea ? That brings up another question to the group: what do your Yixing pots, especially yer older ones look like on the inside (Oolongs/Pu-Erhs/...) ? Karsten [time for the sack over here] DogMa wrote: > Dominic T. wrote: > > ... All of mine are unglazed (glazed tend to crack internally no > > matter how much care is taken). ... they build up deposits (which > > many Japanese see as a good thing), they rust, ... > > I wouldn't use a glazed one; when the glaze chips off, it might wind up > in my gullet. I do have a big one that sits on the wood stove in winter; > I rarely pour from it, but it's nice to know that hot water's always to > hand. > > On the latter point: I wonder if, with regular brewing use, a coherent > organic film might form and passivate the iron surface? This certainly > happens with other cast-iron cookware, and is why a seasoned pot or pan > shouldn't be scrubbed down to clean metal. It would be more likely if > the pot used for brewing is also used for boiling, hence exposed to > direct heat that would enhance polymerization and bonding of the > carbonaceous film to the cast iron. > > -DM |
Tetsubin
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Tetsubin
DogMa > writes:
> wrote: > > ... adressing polymerisation, > > maybe you or someone else knows if the presence of iron ions helps in > > forming insoluble complexes with the goodies (polyphenols) present in > > tea ? > > Don't know by reading or experiment, but it would almost have to: both > as a "core" for multidentate binding by several polyphenols or other > ligands, and as a redox catalyst to enhance the further polymerization > and cross-linking of the goo. Goo? That sounds like the scum I remember in the tea I brewed with the iron-rich on the southern fringes of Calcutta. It didn't just look bad, it *tasted* bad. /Lew --- Lew Perin / http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html |
Tetsubin
In the traditional Japanese tea ceremony an iron kettle is deployed over a charcoal fire. What is the Japanese word for this kettle? And what exactly is the English translation for the Japanese word, tetsubin? Water heating kettle came first, glaze lined tea brewing iron pot came second. No number of detailed facts are going to change my mind. I would never allow myself to be swayed by the facts. Michael |
Tetsubin
In Chinatown you can find boxes of Xiamen Wuyi Rock Tea Lao Tsung Shui
Hsien $4/30g. That is the high grade versus their Xiamen Sea Dyke Shu Xian $4/125g which is a little less rocky. I've never seen an YiWu narcissus. Jim PS I just saw that Snapple EGCG green tea commercial again. In the background are rock tea trees in the crevices of the cliffs. You'd need a monkey to get at those or an inverted cherry picker. I only buy Chinese teas from sites that can send me the characters. The last vendor sent them in an Excel spreadsheet which I don't have installed. I told him how to dump his spreadsheet in an HTM file and send me that which worked. I'm going to try their version of a wild bitter tea called TianShan LuShui. This is my first foray into a shopping cart versus Ebay auctions but they do take PayPal. Alex Chaihorsky wrote: > Shui Xian! My large cache that I bought in China 2 years ago is all gone and > I cannot find acceptable price for good stuff here... Were you lucky enough > to fins a good vendor? > Is it Yi Wu Shui Xian? ... Is it? Is It? Is it? > > Sasha. > > "Michael Plant" > wrote in message > ... ....fire in the hole... > > Michael [Heavy Roasted Shui Xian Yummy Yum] |
Tetsubin
On 25 Sep 2006 06:00:36 -0700, Space Cowboy wrote:
> The last vendor sent them in an Excel spreadsheet which I don't have > installed. If you don't want to give business to Microsoft (which I can understand), consider installing OpenOffice 2.0. This will give you Calc, their Excel replacement. Just to test, I threw some random Cyrillic characters into an Excel spreadsheet (I don't have Chinese installed), and then opened the file in Calc. It showed exactly what it was supposed to show. And, since it's free, you don't have to regret spending a lot of money on a piece of software you rarely use. Now, if it's a drive-space issue, i.e. you're running out of it, this won't help. -- Derek "Any event, once it has occurred, can be made to appear inevitable by a competent historian." -- Lee Simonson |
Tetsubin
Michael Plant wrote: > In the traditional Japanese tea ceremony an iron > kettle is deployed over a charcoal fire. What is the > Japanese word for this kettle? And what exactly is > the English translation for the Japanese word, > tetsubin? Water heating kettle came first, glaze > lined tea brewing iron pot came second. No > number of detailed facts are going to change my > mind. I would never allow myself to be swayed > by the facts. > Michael Note: Some modern tetsubin are made of alloys which claim to not rust, I forgot to mention that before. kama - kettle shinnari kama - "true shape" based on the pot belly of the Tanuki (a raccoon-dog) and the original kama, tea kettle, is seen to have this same shape. Tetsubin/kama can be made for use on one or both types of heat sources, generally ro can be used for both heat sources while many furo are furo-only. furo - portable hearth/heat source (summer) ro - hearth (winter) kama and tetsubin are not interchangable to me personally, but are to just about everyone else. I call the decorative non-used cast iron tea kettles tetsubin, while I refer to the real deal old kettles and those used in tea ceremony kama. - Dominic |
Tetsubin
Here are the characters:
http://i10.tinypic.com/3yf1mo3.jpg KWIC: kami shinnari ro furo tetsubin Jim Dominic T. wrote: > Michael Plant wrote: > > In the traditional Japanese tea ceremony an iron > > kettle is deployed over a charcoal fire. What is the > > Japanese word for this kettle? And what exactly is > > the English translation for the Japanese word, > > tetsubin? Water heating kettle came first, glaze > > lined tea brewing iron pot came second. No > > number of detailed facts are going to change my > > mind. I would never allow myself to be swayed > > by the facts. > > Michael > > Note: Some modern tetsubin are made of alloys which claim to not rust, > I forgot to mention that before. > > kama - kettle > > shinnari kama - "true shape" based on the pot belly of the Tanuki (a > raccoon-dog) and the original kama, tea kettle, is seen to have this > same shape. > > Tetsubin/kama can be made for use on one or both types of heat sources, > generally ro can be used for both heat sources while many furo are > furo-only. > > furo - portable hearth/heat source (summer) > > ro - hearth (winter) > > kama and tetsubin are not interchangable to me personally, but are to > just about everyone else. I call the decorative non-used cast iron tea > kettles tetsubin, while I refer to the real deal old kettles and those > used in tea ceremony kama. > > - Dominic |
Tetsubin
"Derek" > wrote...
> If you don't want to give business to Microsoft (which I can understand), > consider installing OpenOffice 2.0. This will give you Calc, their Excel > replacement. .... Here's the free OpenOffice website, for anyone who is interested: http://www.openoffice.org/index.html |
Tetsubin
Me culpa - not Yi Wu, but Wu Yi (Archer barbarian). I think my spell
checker decided to swap the syllables. Sorry. Sasha. "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message oups.com... > In Chinatown you can find boxes of Xiamen Wuyi Rock Tea Lao Tsung Shui > Hsien $4/30g. That is the high grade versus their Xiamen Sea Dyke Shu > Xian $4/125g which is a little less rocky. I've never seen an YiWu > narcissus. > > Jim > > PS I just saw that Snapple EGCG green tea commercial again. In the > background are rock tea trees in the crevices of the cliffs. You'd > need a monkey to get at those or an inverted cherry picker. I only buy > Chinese teas from sites that can send me the characters. The last > vendor sent them in an Excel spreadsheet which I don't have installed. > I told him how to dump his spreadsheet in an HTM file and send me that > which worked. I'm going to try their version of a wild bitter tea > called TianShan LuShui. This is my first foray into a shopping cart > versus Ebay auctions but they do take PayPal. > > Alex Chaihorsky wrote: >> Shui Xian! My large cache that I bought in China 2 years ago is all gone >> and >> I cannot find acceptable price for good stuff here... Were you lucky >> enough >> to fins a good vendor? >> Is it Yi Wu Shui Xian? ... Is it? Is It? Is it? >> >> Sasha. >> >> "Michael Plant" > wrote in message >> ... > ...fire in the hole... >> > Michael [Heavy Roasted Shui Xian Yummy Yum] > |
Tetsubin
Michael Plant wrote: > In the traditional Japanese tea ceremony an iron > kettle is deployed over a charcoal fire. What is the > Japanese word for this kettle? "The Japanese Tea Ceremony" is, in fact, a collection of many different versions of ritual. Most of the time, the water is heated in an iron kettle over a fire. The lid is removed, and a bamboo dipper is used to remove the hot water. This is called a kama. Some versions of powdered tea ritual call for the use of an iron kettle with a spout and a handle, thus eliminating the need for the dipper. The kettle can be heated over a charcoal fire or an electric heater. This is called a tetsubin, literally iron jug/bottle. There is a book, in English, called _Tetsubin: A Japanese Waterkettle_ by P.L.W. Arts, Groningen [The Netherlands]: Geldermalsen Publications, 1987. This is a detailed academic work. Maybe you can find this by inter-library loan. Paragon Book Gallery in Chicago might also have occasional copies for sale. |
Tetsubin
Dominic T. wrote:
> However, they are used for water only mainly in modern Japanese tea > ceremony so that may be where you were coming from. But originally and > still they were used for both purposes. Like I said almost more often > they were used secondarily for tea because the water was already > boiling for heat/humidity so either some leaves were thrown into the > pot or the water was used for making tea. I know a few Japanese friends > whose family members still use unglazed tetsubin with the strainers for > their daily tea, and many vendors quite clearly will tell you the > proper way to use your tetsubin is for brewing tea not for boiling > water on the stovetop. > Hell, I know one old Chinese man who boils water in his yixing on a gas > stove directly and then adds in his tea... who am I to argue? The pot > looks really cool from the fire/tea on the outside too, so nothing is > stopping you from using a tetsubin on the stove... and it is much more > sturdy than Yixing so go for it if you want. I'm not aware of any > secret tetsubin police ;) > > - Dominic To understand Japanese tetsubin's proper/traditional use, one has to take a look at the use of such iron pots in ancient China (from which the Japanese borrowed). The answer can then be divided in 2: - before and during Tang dynasty, tea was boiled together with the water, - after Tang, during the Sung, Yuan... dynasties, iron pots were only used to boil water. Since the main Japanese tea ceremony is using matcha (directly inspired from the Sung dynasty), we can conclude that the traditional use for a Japanese tetsubin is to boil water (not to make tea in it). For me, I find my tetsubin very convenient and stress free, because once the water has boiled it stays at a very high temperature and I can brew my tea several times without thinking about water temperature anymore. (I wrote an article about it in my blog this week, by the way). It's interesting that Dominic mentions the Yixing teapot used as a kettle. I hope it doesn't sound like I want to contradict him (I respect his tea passion very much), but it actually makes perfect sense. Teapots are the 'descendants' (a better word may be evolution) of ewers that were used to boil water in earlier dynasties. Stéphane |
Tetsubin
Tea Masters Blog wrote: > Since the main Japanese tea ceremony is using matcha (directly inspired > from the Sung dynasty), we can conclude that the traditional use for a > Japanese tetsubin is to boil water (not to make tea in it). Yes, if we are speaking solely about Japanese tea ceremony then this is correct. However, not many modern folks do in Japan or abroad but many still use the tetsubin in their homes and in almost every case I see them actually brewing tea in them not just heating water. These are the new tetsubin that are made of an alloy not supposed to rust and come with the strainer built in that you can buy in home stores and kitchen shops. This excerpt is taken directly from the Joyce Chen line of Tetsubin sold everywhe "While this traditional Asian teapot cries out for green tea, it's such a joy to use that it would be a shame not to put it to work every day. The well designed lid won't fall off even when you're pouring out the very last drops of tea. It comes with a stainless steel infuser so you can remove the leaves after steeping--especially important when you're preparing delicate green teas." > For me, I find my tetsubin very convenient and stress free, because > once the water has boiled it stays at a very high temperature and I can > brew my tea several times without thinking about water temperature > anymore. (I wrote an article about it in my blog this week, by the > way). I guess it depends on what kind of tea you drink and how you brew it, I still find completely drying the teapot inside each time to be a bit of a drag when so many other alternatives are out there that also retain heat well. I also have a personal dislike of metal in my tea brewing process, so I'm admittedly biased. > It's interesting that Dominic mentions the Yixing teapot used as a > kettle. I hope it doesn't sound like I want to contradict him (I > respect his tea passion very much), but it actually makes perfect > sense. Teapots are the 'descendants' (a better word may be evolution) > of ewers that were used to boil water in earlier dynasties. No contradiction at all! I think it's cool, and it is actually how they were used way back in the day over open fires. The patina it has is really amazing. I just cringe at this semi-delicate Yixing that is at least 60 years old (and nicer than even my best yixing that I care for with untold delicacy) being wailed on by high gas flames on a stove burner... it just *seems* wrong, not that it is. - Dominic Drinking: no tea yet... need to stop typing and go make some! |
Tetsubin
Dominic T. wrote:
> Yes, if we are speaking solely about Japanese tea ceremony then this is > correct. However, not many modern folks do in Japan or abroad but many > still use the tetsubin in their homes and in almost every case I see > them actually brewing tea in them not just heating water. These are the > new tetsubin that are made of an alloy not supposed to rust and come > with the strainer built in that you can buy in home stores and kitchen > shops(...) > I also have a personal dislike of metal in my tea brewing > process, so I'm admittedly biased. You aren't biased! Tea and iron (or steel) just don't mix well. (So, I don't use a filter.) I absolutely agree with you on this point and that's why I think we should give answers that are consistent with how tea 'ought' to be brewed according to tradition, rather than just observations of how modern people brew tea nowadays. However, high value metals like gold or silver are actually excellent to make tea in them (Lu Yu already said so long time ago). They are highly heat conductive and brew tea at higher temperatures than clay. > I guess it depends on what kind of tea you drink and how you brew it, I > still find completely drying the teapot inside each time to be a bit of > a drag when so many other alternatives are out there that also retain > heat well. What are you using then? Stéphane |
Tetsubin
Tea Masters Blog wrote: > > I guess it depends on what kind of tea you drink and how you brew it, I > > still find completely drying the teapot inside each time to be a bit of > > a drag when so many other alternatives are out there that also retain > > heat well. > > What are you using then? I use a mixture of things, but I boil my water either in an electric kettle I have that the element is encased, or my whistler glass stovetop tea kettle, a lined regular tea kettle, or sometimes a HotShot. I brew in either a gaiwan, my ceramic or glass mugs with a polymesh (nylon) People's Brew Basket, Yixing (I do brew a particular jasmine green in Yixing even though it is not "correct"), or in one of my porcelain/ceramic/yixing 3-piece mugs with mug, strainer, and lid. All of them make it very easy to cleanup with the Yixing and brew basket being a bit more of a chore. But with Yixing it is enjoyable to me. And, I'd love to find a gold/silver kettle I have nothing against those at all except cost. I also hope I don't give off a vibe that one need be wary of questioning me or my methods/thoughts... quite the contrary, I love a good discussion and I'm happy to be proven wrong and showed new things and ideas. I tend to ignore many "technical" tea things and prefer, time, experience, tradition, and common sense... that doesn't make me "right" and I don't care to be :) I just enjoy the simplicity of tea and how it was enjoyed originally, and I'd bet good money there were no scales, timers, thermometers, and 3-day-old picked tea airmailed next-day for more than my car cost me. - Dominic |
Tetsubin
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Tetsubin
Michael Plant wrote: > Thank you Thitherflit. It is just as I suspected. > The Tetsubin was/is a water heating vessel meant > to heat the tea water, not to brew. God, you, > and I triumph yet again. All else is trash. > > Cordially, > Michael Unfortunately kitchen stores, Joyce Chen, and boutiques everywhere see it differently such as http://www.kitchenemporium.com/info/...in_teapot.html who has 12 different ones all with stainless steel infusers for brewing and even http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=202285 who sells a ~$150 "traditional" tetsubin again with the stainless infuser. Both of these examples go to porcelain lined ones, and I don't have the time to find the others but I assure you that many, many places sell the non-lined tetsubin with the stainless infusers as well. I fully agree with you guys that if one was going to use it that it would be for water boiling, but even historically it could go either way with only the kama being a water-only vessel. - Dominic |
Tetsubin
Dominic T. wrote:
>I fully agree >with you guys that if one was going to use it that it would be for >water boiling, but even historically it could go either way with only >the kama being a water-only vessel. .... AFAIK Tetsubins have also been used/are still in use to warm up sake [to keep it warm], but sas a different story. Karsten [Downing: strong Ostfriesian blend w/ "Kluntje" & heavy cream, registering 10/10 on the kick-o-meter] |
Tetsubin
"Michael Plant" > wrote in message ... > 9/26/06 >> > Thank you Thitherflit. It is just as I suspected. > The Tetsubin was/is a water heating vessel meant > to heat the tea water, not to brew. God, you, > and I triumph yet again. All else is trash. > > Cordially, > Michael Actually I have been to couple of cafés in Russia where they serve "north african style" sweet teas with milk and spices from not too large (may be a 1 liter) but quite massive tetsubins with enamel lining and although it has nothing to do with any particular tea serving style its quite nice. The tetsubin keep hot for quite a while because of large metal mass, its well made and milk tea looks quite good in tetsubin styled glasses. Testubin also serve as a nice hand warmer (it was numbingly cold). Has nothing to do with the styles of drinking tea that we on this forum mostly do, but I have to admit that it was quite nice. I would absolutely love to have had one of these during my field geology days because that would allow me to brew black tea on campfire real easy and keep it hot for awhile. But the enamel might not be sturdy enough for campfire. I tried several times to brew black (shu, cooked) puerh in testubin for my friends who like shu puerh (I kinda don't anymore) and it also worked beautifully. I prefer the lentil-shaped ones with "porcupine" spikes or hobnails (hira arare) for smaller ones (and this one has that wobderful oxidized bronse color) http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-Tetsubi...QQcmdZViewItem and for larger ones this is my absolute favourite: http://www.cutleryandmore.com/detail...ucts&kw=70 91 Sasha. |
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