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What You've Been Waiting For
art of tea magazine wrote: > Look for the first issue of "The Art of Tea" Magazine in November > of 2006. > > Contact Us At: Some of you will remember Aromaserene.com from back in February of this year. http://tinyurl.com/j76m9 Beware as the same gentleman who started that fly by night site is now translating articles into English for Pu-erh Teapot magazine. He has gone by many names over the months including Aaron Fisher, Oahspe, and many pseudonyms. He is now translating articles to English for Pu-er Teapot magazine and I have personal experience and undeniable evidence that he lies frequently and without remorse. He has surfaced several times since the Aroma Serene days, including forums like the Pu-erh LJ community, and even on the streets of Kunming with his "Tea Master" from Taiwan. His information has always been tainted with mysticism that was just a little too hard to swallow, and on several occasions he has even admitted to flat out lying to me. I dont know if the OP is the same person or not but beware as Aaron is now affiliated with that organization. I am not sure what his motivation is but this Aaron Fisher person, or whatever he is calling himself today, is not to be trusted......... Mike http://www.pu-erh.net |
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What You've Been Waiting For
I received an email today with the same exact message as above from The
Art of Tea Magazine's Executive Editor (no name). It also advertised on LJ Pu-erh Community today, but the ad was taken down by the moderator (bearsbearsbears). I replied to the editor's apology for putting an ad there, and s/he emailed me back saying that s/he is very enthusiastic about the upcoming publication in English, and signed the email "Executive Editor". I thought this was funny...someone who claims to be an authority figure of a publication but who is reluctant to reveal his/her name. Then when I saw your (Mike Petro) comment above and I connected the dots. I know that an esteemed tea enthusiast who has my utmost trust (I don't want to incriminate this person in any way, so s/he shall remain nameless) is in contact with an "Aaron". They are working together on a tea-related article for the magazine. I have read from top to bottom the debacle that you, Mike, had with this Aaron Fisher a while ago (white lie to teach a young child analogy comes back to mind), and you presented a compelling argument to question the sincerity and honesty of this Aaron Fisher person. However, the association of the abovementioned tea enthusiast who I trust with an "Aaron" in working on an article together just makes it difficult for me to at least not give the benefit of the doubt. I'm not questioning your wisdom, Mike, I'm just saying it just doesn't jive yet in my head... Thanks for the insight, nevertheless. Your comment has at least put my defenses up. Phyll http://phyllsheng.blogspot.com www.winexiles.com Mike Petro wrote: > art of tea magazine wrote: > > > Look for the first issue of "The Art of Tea" Magazine in November > > of 2006. > > > > Contact Us At: > > Some of you will remember Aromaserene.com from back in February of this > year. http://tinyurl.com/j76m9 > > Beware as the same gentleman who started that fly by night site is now > translating articles into English for Pu-erh Teapot magazine. He has > gone by many names over the months including Aaron Fisher, Oahspe, and > many pseudonyms. He is now translating articles to English for Pu-er > Teapot magazine and I have personal experience and undeniable evidence > that he lies frequently and without remorse. > > He has surfaced several times since the Aroma Serene days, including > forums like the Pu-erh LJ community, and even on the streets of Kunming > with his "Tea Master" from Taiwan. His information has always been > tainted with mysticism that was just a little too hard to swallow, and > on several occasions he has even admitted to flat out lying to me. > > I dont know if the OP is the same person or not but beware as Aaron is > now affiliated with that organization. I am not sure what his > motivation is but this Aaron Fisher person, or whatever he is calling > himself today, is not to be trusted......... > > Mike > http://www.pu-erh.net |
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What You've Been Waiting For
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What You've Been Waiting For
>With all due respect, your additional information is wanting: You need to >tell us who exactly is the tea enthusiast working with the "Aaron" on an >article about tea. Perhaps I'll then change my mind. At this time however, >having examined several numbers of Teapot Magazine, I deem it a vendors' >and tea producers' propaganda organ. The magazine is weighted heavily to >advertising; and the articles, being written for the most part by and about >vendors, are suspect. The overarching theme of the magazine appears to be to >get me to buy more Pu'erh. I smell a rat. > >Michael > I know not who Phyll refers to but I do know that Guang is involved in some measure, he is positioning himself as the US distributor for the magazine, albeit I do not question Guangs honesty or integrity, it is unfortunate that he has associated himself with Aaron Fisher. Further evidence that points to Aaron and this "Executive Editor" being one and the same is the total lack of any attempt to contact me or my site. From a marketing prospective any puerh magazine would almost certainly send an announcement to "Pu-erh.Net" unless they knew they were not welcome. Actually I seriously considered creating an association with Pu'er Teapot magazine at one point, with Guang making the introductions, but when I found out Aaron was heavily involved I bowed out. -- Mike Petro http://www.pu-erh.net |
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What You've Been Waiting For
>On 5 Oct 2006 22:26:36 -0700, "Phyll" > wrote:
>I received an email today with the same exact message as above from The >Art of Tea Magazine's Executive Editor (no name). It also advertised >on LJ Pu-erh Community today, but the ad was taken down by the >moderator (bearsbearsbears). I replied to the editor's apology for >putting an ad there, and s/he emailed me back saying that s/he is very >enthusiastic about the upcoming publication in English, and signed the >email "Executive Editor". I thought this was funny...someone who >claims to be an authority figure of a publication but who is reluctant >to reveal his/her name. This is typical Aaron Fisher style. He has been known to frequently be cagey about revealing himself in the past. He loves to use a variety of names and email addresses. He also likes to swear people to secrecy when communicating with them. The shedding of light uncovers the truth..... >Then when I saw your (Mike Petro) comment above and I connected the >dots. I know that an esteemed tea enthusiast who has my utmost trust >(I don't want to incriminate this person in any way, so s/he shall >remain nameless) is in contact with an "Aaron". They are working >together on a tea-related article for the magazine. Your friend is not alone. Aaron Fisher has written several friends of mine addressing himself as "Executive Editor". While yet another penname was used, his writing style was unmistakable, this was confirmed by several English Professor friends (PhD types) who are experts at identifying such prose style. He has contacted many people attempting to get articles for his magazine. The fact that I was never approached is somewhat telling as well, and trust me I am not in the least bit jealous nor do I feel slighted, but many puerh related ventures contact me hoping to cash in on the credibility and popularity of Pu-erh.Net and the fact that this one hasn't is a bit revealing. Think about it, an English Language Puerh Mag that doesn't make an announcement to Pu-erh.Net? I suspect he knew what to expect! >I have read from top to bottom the debacle that you, Mike, had with >this Aaron Fisher a while ago (white lie to teach a young child analogy >comes back to mind), and you presented a compelling argument to >question the sincerity and honesty of this Aaron Fisher person. The stuff I posted on LJ is just the tip of the iceberg. I have tons of email from this guy, including many under various other names but using the same IP address and the same writing style. He posed as a "Shill" by posting a message to my website recommending Aroma Serene while "pretending" to be a satisfied customer, and the list goes on. He eventually admitted to many of these lies (including the Shill incident) using a variety of excuses. He has no credibility in my book. While he may be knowledgeable about tea and/or puerh, he is not to be trusted. I also tasted samples of each of his teas and the tea doesn't lie, it was NOT what he portrayed it to be. He sold several of $300 bricks of crap tea and I have yet to hear a single person speak favorably of the tea. >However, the association of the abovementioned tea enthusiast who I >trust with an "Aaron" in working on an article together just makes it >difficult for me to at least not give the benefit of the doubt. I'm >not questioning your wisdom, Mike, I'm just saying it just doesn't jive >yet in my head... I have nothing against your friend, nor anybody else for that matter. I also have nothing against Puer Teapot magazine, but their new employee has no credibility in my opinion. I do have a bit of history with Aaron Fisher and I feel obliged to make the tea community aware of his sleaziness. My reputation in the tea community stands up to scrutiny, does Aaron's? -- Mike Petro http://www.pu-erh.net |
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What You've Been Waiting For
> art of tea magazine wrote: > >> Look for the first issue of "The Art of Tea" Magazine in November >> of 2006. >> >> Contact Us At: > > Some of you will remember Aromaserene.com from back in February of this > year. http://tinyurl.com/j76m9 > > Beware as the same gentleman who started that fly by night site is now > translating articles into English for Pu-erh Teapot magazine. He has > gone by many names over the months including Aaron Fisher, Oahspe, and > many pseudonyms. He is now translating articles to English for Pu-er > Teapot magazine and I have personal experience and undeniable evidence > that he lies frequently and without remorse. > > He has surfaced several times since the Aroma Serene days, including > forums like the Pu-erh LJ community, and even on the streets of Kunming > with his "Tea Master" from Taiwan. His information has always been > tainted with mysticism that was just a little too hard to swallow, and > on several occasions he has even admitted to flat out lying to me. > > I dont know if the OP is the same person or not but beware as Aaron is > now affiliated with that organization. I am not sure what his > motivation is but this Aaron Fisher person, or whatever he is calling > himself today, is not to be trusted......... Mike, While I much appreciate your investigations on these creeps -- I say creeps based on having drunk Aroma Serene's supposedly most excellent Pu'erhs and having found them to be pure junk to the point where I threw the rest of my stashes away in the trash -- I think we should beware of throwing the baby away with the bath water. A bit of silent ritual enhances the tea experience. A bit of mysticism that brings us to a greater awareness of what the tea is doing in our mouths does not go amiss; and any method we bring to the table that tunes and enhances our concentration is a good thing. Fine trees deserve that. But, as somebody far greater than I suggested, when we make a big thing out of the mystery and the ritual, we are in danger of worshipping the pointing finger, rather than the sacred thing to which it points. Yadayadayada enough. (He reads his own insufferable prose, and goes to hide in a little dark windowless room for the rest of the day.) Michael |
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What You've Been Waiting For
On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 10:53:49 GMT, Michael Plant >
wrote: >Mike, > >While I much appreciate your investigations on these creeps -- I say creeps >based on having drunk Aroma Serene's supposedly most excellent Pu'erhs and >having found them to be pure junk to the point where I threw the rest of my >stashes away in the trash -- I think we should beware of throwing the baby >away with the bath water. > >A bit of silent ritual enhances the tea experience. A bit of mysticism that >brings us to a greater awareness of what the tea is doing in our mouths does >not go amiss; and any method we bring to the table that tunes and enhances >our concentration is a good thing. Fine trees deserve that. But, as somebody >far greater than I suggested, when we make a big thing out of the mystery >and the ritual, we are in danger of worshipping the pointing finger, rather >than the sacred thing to which it points. Yadayadayada enough. (He reads his >own insufferable prose, and goes to hide in a little dark windowless room >for the rest of the day.) > >Michael Point taken, and I do agree, but this character has taken the mysticism to a whole new degree. I suspect mysticism was a vehicle to enable him to cover the truth. Mike -- Mike Petro http://www.pu-erh.net |
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What You've Been Waiting For
>Mike, > >While I much appreciate your investigations on these creeps -- I say creeps >based on having drunk Aroma Serene's supposedly most excellent Pu'erhs and >having found them to be pure junk to the point where I threw the rest of my >stashes away in the trash -- I think we should beware of throwing the baby >away with the bath water. >A bit of silent ritual enhances the tea experience. A bit of mysticism that >brings us to a greater awareness of what the tea is doing in our mouths does >not go amiss; and any method we bring to the table that tunes and enhances >our concentration is a good thing. Fine trees deserve that. But, as somebody >far greater than I suggested, when we make a big thing out of the mystery >and the ritual, we are in danger of worshipping the pointing finger, rather >than the sacred thing to which it points. Yadayadayada enough. (He reads his >own insufferable prose, and goes to hide in a little dark windowless room >for the rest of the day.) > >Michael The more I think about this the less I agree. In this "business" it seems that mysticism is used predominantly for marketing and seldom for spirituality. Almost every time I see mysticism brought into play it is to create some "story" whose prime purpose is to inflate the price of the tea. I feel that tea should be sold for what it is, an agricultural crop. Like any other agricultural crop skilled processing and farming can greatly increase the quality. One can be extremely aware of most anything one consumes, this is a good thing. Spirituality, the awareness associated with consuming the tea, is valid and fantastic. However it should have absolutely nothing to do with sale price of the product. It is simply a matter of how one consumes the product. To each his/her own and all. When mysticism is used to "sell" a product it is the consumer who always loses....... Just MHO, -- Mike Petro http://www.pu-erh.net |
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What You've Been Waiting For
[the Michael part I]
>> While I much appreciate your investigations on these creeps -- I say creeps >> based on having drunk Aroma Serene's supposedly most excellent Pu'erhs and >> having found them to be pure junk to the point where I threw the rest of my >> stashes away in the trash -- I think we should beware of throwing the baby >> away with the bath water. >> A bit of silent ritual enhances the tea experience. A bit of mysticism that >> brings us to a greater awareness of what the tea is doing in our mouths does >> not go amiss; and any method we bring to the table that tunes and enhances >> our concentration is a good thing. Fine trees deserve that. But, as somebody >> far greater than I suggested, when we make a big thing out of the mystery >> and the ritual, we are in danger of worshipping the pointing finger, rather >> than the sacred thing to which it points. Yadayadayada enough. (He reads his >> own insufferable prose, and goes to hide in a little dark windowless room >> for the rest of the day.) [the Mike part with Michael interleaved] > The more I think about this the less I agree. In this "business" it > seems that mysticism is used predominantly for marketing and seldom > for spirituality. Almost every time I see mysticism brought into play > it is to create some "story" whose prime purpose is to inflate the > price of the tea. I feel that tea should be sold for what it is, an > agricultural crop. Like any other agricultural crop skilled processing > and farming can greatly increase the quality. Yes, of course. I was not referring to vendor hype; only saying that a sharing of tea in that way takes us into new dimensions. It's another discussion. How tea is sold is still another matter. > One can be extremely aware of most anything one consumes, this is a > good thing. Spirituality, the awareness associated with consuming the > tea, is valid and fantastic. However it should have absolutely nothing > to do with sale price of the product. It is simply a matter of how one > consumes the product. To each his/her own and all. To which I say, Amen. But, ahem: Let us not throw out this dimension because some damnable vendor abused it. > When mysticism is used to "sell" a product it is the consumer who > always loses....... Well, usually.... Michael |
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What You've Been Waiting For
Mike Petro wrote: > The more I think about this the less I agree. In this "business" it > seems that mysticism is used predominantly for marketing and seldom > for spirituality. Almost every time I see mysticism brought into play > it is to create some "story" whose prime purpose is to inflate the > price of the tea. I feel that tea should be sold for what it is, an > agricultural crop. Like any other agricultural crop skilled processing > and farming can greatly increase the quality. > > One can be extremely aware of most anything one consumes, this is a > good thing. Spirituality, the awareness associated with consuming the > tea, is valid and fantastic. However it should have absolutely nothing > to do with sale price of the product. It is simply a matter of how one > consumes the product. To each his/her own and all. > > When mysticism is used to "sell" a product it is the consumer who > always loses....... > > Just MHO, > -- > Mike Petro > http://www.pu-erh.net Word. I always hate to reply in one of these threads because while the conversation is excellent... the original post just keeps getting more airtime and never just goes away. With the amazing talent, knowledge, and genuine love for tea it would appear to me that there is enough skill here to produce a very good magazine. Rather than sit idle and constantly be annoyed by the false attempts to create an English language tea magazine by less than honorable individuals, I'm always one to put my time, effort, and money behind doing something about it and to correct a situation. Even though my prose here and on my new blog are fairly raw and un-edited I did work as a writer/reviewer and editor. I also was lukcy enough to receive the National English Merit Award in 1998. (I'm almost ashamed to say this now, since most of you have read the poor excuse for English I type here daily) And I know the diverse and educated backgrounds around here easily cover the spectrum and then some. It is a big undertaking and I'm not trying to rattle the troops into wasting time and effort on a pipe dream, but it could be done if there was interest. I don't like the mystical nature of a lot of what is said and sold with regards to tea, I'm also not a fan of those who make these over-reaching claims of health benefits either. When people are informed it always works in their favor. I have been disgusted with the total lack of culture and tea in my area (near Pittsburgh) and I have been steadily laying groundwork to do somethign about it and open my own shop that offers real tea, at normal prices, brewed properly, and in a nice atmosphere with a nod to local musicians/artists. I'd rather try and fail than do nothing and wish for better. My family is composed of artists, with my grandfather having been quite renowned, and there is very little outlet for that as well in my area and growing smaller daily. Reality shows, Paris Hilton, and gangsta rap are about as cultured as many young folks are in my neck of the woods... but I believe there is a desire for a little more, a little depth, in a large majority of the youth and it is going unfilled. Not just youth but young adults and the under-30 crowd as well. Starbucks is not the answer, and there are no alternatives for anything less commercial and more "real." Sorry to go on a tangent, but I am an individual who believes in taking action. That is the only true way to combat these issues. - Dominic |
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What You've Been Waiting For
>>>Michael Plant wrote:
> Phyll, > > With all due respect, your additional information is wanting: You need to > tell us who exactly is the tea enthusiast working with the "Aaron" on an > article about tea. Perhaps I'll then change my mind. At this time however, > having examined several numbers of Teapot Magazine, I deem it a vendors' > and tea producers' propaganda organ. The magazine is weighted heavily to > advertising; and the articles, being written for the most part by and about > vendors, are suspect. The overarching theme of the magazine appears to be to > get me to buy more Pu'erh. I smell a rat. > > Michael ----------------------------------------------------------- Michael, With respect, I don't think I should mention the person's name lest I undeliberately cause him/her to be viewed as guilty by association, since the main mood of this thread is such. This would be a breach of personal trust on my part to that person. I apologize. I don't mean to be secretive here, but it would just be irresponsible of me if I did. I hope you understand. I have not touched a single publication of the magazine, in Chinese, Urdu, nor in English. Ok, I don't think they publish in Urdu. Phyll |
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What You've Been Waiting For
It's a beautiful promise. Unfortunately, it is tainted by presence of
Mr. Fischer -- he shows up far too often in the English-speaking puer world. I don't trust him, and I think the financial backers of this endevor should be aware that he soils the reputation of the magazine prior to its publication. -David L. art of tea magazine wrote: > Wu Shing Publication has been the name in Tea throughout Asia for > decades. Our books and magazines line the shelves of most all tea shops > and collectors' homes. And our reputation for sharing the tea culture > and wisdom of countless authors and experts is impeccable. > > We are proud to announce our embarkation into the English speaking > market with our newest quarterly magazine: > > "The Art of Tea ©" > > |
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What You've Been Waiting For
On 10/06/2006 13:29:09 "Phyll" > wrote: > Phyll, >> With all due respect, your additional information is wanting: You need to >> tell us who exactly is the tea enthusiast working with the "Aaron" on an >> article about tea. Perhaps I'll then change my mind. At this time >> however, having examined several numbers of Teapot Magazine, I deem it a >> vendors' and tea producers' propaganda organ. The magazine is weighted >> heavily to advertising; and the articles, being written for the most part >> by and about vendors, are suspect. The overarching theme of the magazine >> appears to be to get me to buy more Pu'erh. I smell a rat. >> Michael > ----------------------------------------------------------- Michael, > With respect, I don't think I should mention the person's name lest I > undeliberately cause him/her to be viewed as guilty by association, since > the main mood of this thread is such. This would be a breach of personal > trust on my part to that person. I apologize. I don't mean to be > secretive here, but it would just be irresponsible of me if I did. I hope > you understand. > I have not touched a single publication of the magazine, in Chinese, Urdu, > nor in English. Ok, I don't think they publish in Urdu. > Phyll Phyll, I respect your judgement on the matter. Michael |
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What You've Been Waiting For
To offer another side to an otherwise one-sided scandal I will go
against my better intuitions and offer my voice here. Truly I feel that gossip and rumors say more about the one doing the gossiping than the one they discuss, but in this instance some of what is discussed is based on fact, though exaggerated, and my own faults should be made public. Yes I did start an online review and tea website called "Aroma Serene." In the beginning, I think my intentions were very good. I didn't really need the money, as I am already a successful school teacher. (*Gasp* a school teacher of little children, yes. And contrary to the rumors, I also don't have horns either) I sold tea to ONLY two individuals, Mike Petro and a man named Gerald. Both orders were just a few samples and totaled around 30$, including the 13 dollars or so for air-shipping from Taiwan. The teas were authentic and vintage 60's teas, though they had indeed spent time in wet storage. However, that kind of tea is misunderstood in the West, I have since learned, and not appreciated the way it is here. Anyway, neither of them liked the tea and they are definitely entitled to their personal opinions. I also don't wish to dispute the teas again, please. I then closed shop for two reasons: One reason was that I saw that they had not appreciated the tea I had access to. The second was that I noticed in myself that my good intentions to share tea culture had indeed been affected by Greed. I did begin thinking about selling the teas, and the cakes were approximately 300 dollars (though I never sold one) and I would have had about 50 dollars profit from each one. I planned to spend the money on more tea for myself. When I recognized that emotion in myself, I decided the endeavor wasn't healthy. It was wrong to let money pollute one of the great passions of my life. I had indeed asked a friend to send a "schill" to Mr. Mike Petro to come to the website and it was dishonest and wrong. I also did in fact publish a few of Gerald's emails to me on my site, but it was more out of ignorance to the mores of internet culture than a desire to deceive anyone. When he mentioned it, I immediately removed them. For both of these wrongs I here publicly apologize. I am sorry. And if you are thinking that this public apology is too little too late, I should like to tell you that some months ago I already apologized to both of these individuals privately. I sent both of them boxes containing a heartfelt apology, hand painted calligraphy I did myself, some nice porcelain cups and over 20 bags with 10-15 gram samples of some vintage Puerhs and aged oolongs each. It cost me quite a bit, but obviously wasn't enough? Then, some months later someone was posting information on a forum and Mike Petro accused me of doing this and of having lots of email addresses, etc. His evidence for accusing me was that his team of "PhD linguists" had analyzed the blog posts and discovered that it matched my prose. The other evidence was that some photos were used that had also been used on my website Aroma Serene. I am a part of a group of hundreds of tea-lovers that share tea and meditation together and the pictures came from that group. They are public property. Nevertheless, I understand that I will be faulted for this too and regardless of my involvement or not, will indeed be blamed. I can accept that. After all, I am here admitting to guilt that Mike Petro never has, and his word is of greater weight in this environment. It is foolish, immature and downright silly to speak on it anymore. None of these people that slander me have ever met me or even spoken to me. I exchanged a total of 2-3 emails with Gerald and about 5-10 with Mike. That's it. I have never had any contact with any others here (I think). If your world is so black and white that you think mistakes turn people into sleazy and dastardly devils whose only intention in life is to hurt others, you've been watching too many cartoons. I'll spare you the suspense and tell you now publicly and without shame that I am a sinner. I have done wrong in my life. Sometimes I am angry, sometimes naughty, I have lied; but I have also done good, sometimes I'm a good friend, husband and/or father, sometimes I do well by my students. If you wish to hate me, you may; but I don't hate any of you, even Mike or Gerald who are only expressing that they felt wronged. Finally, I would say at last that judging a magazine based on one of its editors is equally driven by a love for tabloidish scandal and immaturity. I am but one of a huge staff of people here, and also but one of hundreds of authors that will be represented. The first issue has 25 or so articles and only 1 was written by me. Feel free not to read it or to criticize it to shreds. When you buy a new computer you choose a brand based on what's in the computer and how it runs, not whether you like the CEO of HP or Apple better! Diversity makes any publication good, newspaper or magazine. I am not The Art of Tea Magazine and it is not me. The magazine will speak for itself, and it is. We already have had thousands of pre-orders in Asia and have had more than 200 positive emails about subscription and distribution from many Western countries, including two major bookstore chains that are considering it for retail on their shelves. Judging the magazine based on me personally or my past mistakes is silly, and only prevents you from sharing in on all the hundreds of Chinese authors that will now be translated for you, and who have never done anything to you. As for the financial backing, my bosses, knowing me: of course they do. Unlike Mike Petro or Gerald, they have spent considerable time working with me and enjoying tea in our free time. These guys have been in this business for twenty years. They are very smart and wouldn't hire someone that was lying to them, nor would they be fooled culturally as communication isn't a problem between us. And that is the sad thing about all this silliness, if Mike, Gerald and I met randomly and anonymously in person, I'm sure we'd get along great and be good friends. Whether you want to check the magazine out or not is up to. We will have avenues for you to criticize it and voice your opinions too. But I wish you well in tea and ask forgiveness for my part in any misunderstanding with any individuals anywhere. I honestly wish no hard feelings, even all business aside. If you cannot forgive me, there is nothing else I can offer beyond my apology and admittance of the guilty part I played in any of this. Aaron Fisher |
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What You've Been Waiting For
art of tea magazine wrote: > To offer another side to an otherwise one-sided scandal I will go > against my better intuitions and offer my voice here. Truly I feel that > gossip and rumors say more about the one doing the gossiping than the > one they discuss, but in this instance some of what is discussed is > based on fact, though exaggerated, and my own faults should be made > public. > > Yes I did start an online review and tea website called "Aroma > Serene." In the beginning, I think my intentions were very good. I > didn't really need the money, as I am already a successful school > teacher. (*Gasp* a school teacher of little children, yes. And contrary > to the rumors, I also don't have horns either) I sold tea to ONLY two > individuals, Mike Petro and a man named Gerald. Both orders were just a > few samples and totaled around 30$, including the 13 dollars or so for > air-shipping from Taiwan. The teas were authentic and vintage 60's > teas, though they had indeed spent time in wet storage. However, that > kind of tea is misunderstood in the West, I have since learned, and not > appreciated the way it is here. Anyway, neither of them liked the tea > and they are definitely entitled to their personal opinions. I also > don't wish to dispute the teas again, please. > > I then closed shop for two reasons: One reason was that I saw that they > had not appreciated the tea I had access to. The second was that I > noticed in myself that my good intentions to share tea culture had > indeed been affected by Greed. I did begin thinking about selling the > teas, and the cakes were approximately 300 dollars (though I never sold > one) and I would have had about 50 dollars profit from each one. I > planned to spend the money on more tea for myself. When I recognized > that emotion in myself, I decided the endeavor wasn't healthy. It was > wrong to let money pollute one of the great passions of my life. > > I had indeed asked a friend to send a "schill" to Mr. Mike Petro to > come to the website and it was dishonest and wrong. I also did in fact > publish a few of Gerald's emails to me on my site, but it was more > out of ignorance to the mores of internet culture than a desire to > deceive anyone. When he mentioned it, I immediately removed them. For > both of these wrongs I here publicly apologize. I am sorry. > > And if you are thinking that this public apology is too little too > late, I should like to tell you that some months ago I already > apologized to both of these individuals privately. I sent both of them > boxes containing a heartfelt apology, hand painted calligraphy I did > myself, some nice porcelain cups and over 20 bags with 10-15 gram > samples of some vintage Puerhs and aged oolongs each. It cost me quite > a bit, but obviously wasn't enough? > > Then, some months later someone was posting information on a forum and > Mike Petro accused me of doing this and of having lots of email > addresses, etc. His evidence for accusing me was that his team of > "PhD linguists" had analyzed the blog posts and discovered that it > matched my prose. The other evidence was that some photos were used > that had also been used on my website Aroma Serene. I am a part of a > group of hundreds of tea-lovers that share tea and meditation together > and the pictures came from that group. They are public property. > Nevertheless, I understand that I will be faulted for this too and > regardless of my involvement or not, will indeed be blamed. I can > accept that. After all, I am here admitting to guilt that Mike Petro > never has, and his word is of greater weight in this environment. It is > foolish, immature and downright silly to speak on it anymore. None of > these people that slander me have ever met me or even spoken to me. I > exchanged a total of 2-3 emails with Gerald and about 5-10 with Mike. > That's it. I have never had any contact with any others here (I > think). > > If your world is so black and white that you think mistakes turn > people into sleazy and dastardly devils whose only intention in life is > to hurt others, you've been watching too many cartoons. I'll spare > you the suspense and tell you now publicly and without shame that I am > a sinner. I have done wrong in my life. Sometimes I am angry, sometimes > naughty, I have lied; but I have also done good, sometimes I'm a good > friend, husband and/or father, sometimes I do well by my students. If > you wish to hate me, you may; but I don't hate any of you, even Mike > or Gerald who are only expressing that they felt wronged. > > Finally, I would say at last that judging a magazine based on one of > its editors is equally driven by a love for tabloidish scandal and > immaturity. I am but one of a huge staff of people here, and also but > one of hundreds of authors that will be represented. The first issue > has 25 or so articles and only 1 was written by me. Feel free not to > read it or to criticize it to shreds. When you buy a new computer you > choose a brand based on what's in the computer and how it runs, not > whether you like the CEO of HP or Apple better! Diversity makes any > publication good, newspaper or magazine. I am not The Art of Tea > Magazine and it is not me. The magazine will speak for itself, and it > is. We already have had thousands of pre-orders in Asia and have had > more than 200 positive emails about subscription and distribution from > many Western countries, including two major bookstore chains that are > considering it for retail on their shelves. Judging the magazine based > on me personally or my past mistakes is silly, and only prevents you > from sharing in on all the hundreds of Chinese authors that will now be > translated for you, and who have never done anything to you. > > As for the financial backing, my bosses, knowing me: of course they do. > Unlike Mike Petro or Gerald, they have spent considerable time working > with me and enjoying tea in our free time. These guys have been in this > business for twenty years. They are very smart and wouldn't hire > someone that was lying to them, nor would they be fooled culturally as > communication isn't a problem between us. And that is the sad thing > about all this silliness, if Mike, Gerald and I met randomly and > anonymously in person, I'm sure we'd get along great and be good > friends. > > Whether you want to check the magazine out or not is up to. We will > have avenues for you to criticize it and voice your opinions too. But I > wish you well in tea and ask forgiveness for my part in any > misunderstanding with any individuals anywhere. I honestly wish no hard > feelings, even all business aside. If you cannot forgive me, there is > nothing else I can offer beyond my apology and admittance of the guilty > part I played in any of this. > > Aaron Fisher Ah, so after all this, you finally stopped signing "Executive Editor" and using your real name? That's a start. After all, what's so secretive about a tea magazine? Your reputation preceeds you, Mr. Fisher, and for a good reason I believe. You have tried on the LJ Community to pose as somebody else (a Chinese gentlemen was your persona) and then trying to get people to hook up with your friend JFree to, probably, buy tea from you at some point. Such underhanded business tactics are ALWAYS frowned upon, no excuses necessary. |
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What You've Been Waiting For
[Aaron] > I sold tea to ONLY two >individuals, Mike Petro and a man named Gerald. Both orders were just a >few samples and totaled around 30$, Hmm I guess your email below was yet another lie then? Or is the above statement the lie? Heck, the first time you sent me an email you said you wouldn't sell any tea at all online, to anybody, under any circumstances. > -----Original Message----- > From: aaron fisher ] > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:49 AM > To: Mike Petro > Subject: thanks Mike > > Mike, [snip] > Meanwhile on a positive side. We had 4 people order > samples and we are positive we will win you 4 over. [Aaron] > I >exchanged a total of 2-3 emails with Gerald and about 5-10 with Mike. >That's it. I have never had any contact with any others here (I >think). Actually I have close to 50 emails from you in my archives, many are extremely prolific. Another small example of the typical - uh - "inaccuracy" in your statements. I can punch holes through many of your other claims as well, but why bother... Look Aaron, in this business we Westerners MUST trust our vendors as we are usually buying tea sight unseen, often at several dollars per gram . This means that "trust" in a relationship is valued more than anything else during the process. Without trust we Westerners cant effectively do business with Asia. You can deny all you want, but the things you yourself admitted to me in your emails are reason enough for me not to trust you. You have violated my trust by lying to me so many times that I have lost count, some by your own admission, and I have email trails to substantiate the rest of the "inaccuracies". If you are so honorable why do you always cloak your identity? Why have you used so many different names and email addresses? You hid your identity here too until I outed you, why didn't you use your real name when you spammed this group, the Puerh LJ Community, and several private enthusiasts two days ago? . What are you always trying to hide? It is REALLY hard to trust a man who hides his identity! With so many "inaccuracies" why should I expect your publication to be any different? And YES, the fact that you hold a title of such significant responsibility, "Executive Editor", does indeed link your personal reputation to that of your publication. JMHO, -- Mike Petro http://www.pu-erh.net |
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What You've Been Waiting For
Mr. Fisher, please allow me to remind of our encounter on-line. I
recieved several emals from you, first posing as a ficticious Mr. Wu, and later with your name on them. The following link should refresh your memory: http://community.livejournal.com/puerh_tea/30970.html While I am here, I should state that I have the utmost respect and trust for Guang as a person and business operator. He stands as a model for how someone can run a small business based on a love and passion for his product. I realize that his connection to Aaron F. and Puer-Teapot is entirely tangential, and does not reflect on him. I also hope that the Art of Tea turns out to be a wonderful and informative resource for English languange tea enthusiasts. [Aaron F wrote]Then, some months later someone was posting information on a forum and Mike Petro accused me of doing this and of having lots of email addresses, etc. His evidence for accusing me was that his team of "PhD linguists" had analyzed the blog posts and discovered that it matched my prose. The other evidence was that some photos were used that had also been used on my website Aroma Serene. I am a part of a group of hundreds of tea-lovers that share tea and meditation together and the pictures came from that group. They are public property. Nevertheless, I understand that I will be faulted for this too and regardless of my involvement or not, will indeed be blamed. I can accept that. After all, I am here admitting to guilt that Mike Petro never has, and his word is of greater weight in this environment. It is foolish, immature and downright silly to speak on it anymore. None of these people that slander me have ever met me or even spoken to me. I exchanged a total of 2-3 emails with Gerald and about 5-10 with Mike. That's it. I have never had any contact with any others here (I think). |
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What You've Been Waiting For (or not)
This thread now touches on a zone of compelling interest to me: the way
synthetic mysticism is used to support and inhibit direct personal experience. [Michael] >> A bit of silent ritual enhances the tea experience. A bit of mysticism that >> brings us to a greater awareness of what the tea is doing in our mouths does >> not go amiss; and any method we bring to the table that tunes and enhances >> our concentration is a good thing. ... (Zen references trimmed to avoid objectifying the absolute) [Mike] > ... In this "business" it > seems that mysticism is used predominantly for marketing and seldom > for spirituality. Almost every time I see mysticism brought into play > it is to create some "story" whose prime purpose is to inflate the > price of the tea. ... > When mysticism is used to "sell" a product it is the consumer who > always loses... Some make a distinction between two forms of hidden knowledge: mysteries and secrets. Secrets are information known and directly transmissible, whose concealment provides advantage to some. Releasing this information reduces or eliminates its special value to the holder. Mysteries include the kind of informedness that requires non-verbal transmission and direct experience. Concealment and "trading" transactions are irrelevant, because the content cannot be coded into words in a way that conveys the important meaning. Some mysteries are described as self-secret: they are available everywhere, all the time, but will not be perceived and understood until the vessel is properly cleaned and seasoned. Most true spiritual teachings are like this: well-publicized, impossible to understand beyond the level of slogan and cliche and truism until the moment of personal insight exists, and then blindingly obvious in a way that remains very difficult to communicate to a non-seer. One definition of a teacher is someone who can help the student to prepare his/her own vessel, then put forth a truth with such clarity and simplicity that it can easily be received. There is a third category of non-knowledge: ignorance. IMO, this society is crippled by a fear of ignorance, and a driving need to fill creative emptiness with any sort of chaff, no matter how much that may impede further development. Ignorance and confusion are honorable; without both, there would be no progress. In agreeing with Michael and Mike, I would further elaborate that many people in the tea world seem to experience a need for knowledge-as-control even where this does not enhance their direct relationship with their drink. So we find endless procreation of myth, misinformation and gratuitous dogma. Or, as indicted in this discussion, ignorance wrapped in a cloak of either secrecy or mystery. Threads here and elsewhere have questioned the righteousness of vendors who choose not to disclose production details of their offerings. That, to me, is a perfectly reasonable business decision for both parties: what to tell, whether or not to buy, and on what basis of information, reputation, relationship or other coin of credibility. I hold, though, that counterfeiting mystery where none exists is a direct assault on the real gold here, the simple enjoyment (alone or in company, with a tin cup or a vintage set of celadon, with tuppence worth of stale leaf or a couriered pick of mountain green, before a shrine or a television) of the brewed leaf. Many paths, perhaps even many ways. IMO, anything that diverts a seeker of truth or pleasure from the self-revealed personal path, whether through rigid rules, deliberate obfuscation or the mindless objectification of legend, is an exercise in service of ego and counter to the good of all. The priciest leaf in a good cigar is the wrapper, but the best tea comes in very plain packages. -DM |
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What You've Been Waiting For (or not)
"DogMa" wrote ...
> This thread now touches on a zone of compelling interest to me: the way ... > -DM Thank you! |
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What You've Been Waiting For
Oh boy, this is like watching Foley.
art of tea magazine wrote: > To offer another side to an otherwise one-sided scandal I will go > against my better intuitions and offer my voice here. Truly I feel that > gossip and rumors say more about the one doing the gossiping than the > one they discuss, but in this instance some of what is discussed is > based on fact, though exaggerated, and my own faults should be made > public. > > Yes I did start an online review and tea website called "Aroma > Serene." In the beginning, I think my intentions were very good. I > didn't really need the money, as I am already a successful school > teacher. (*Gasp* a school teacher of little children, yes. And contrary > to the rumors, I also don't have horns either) I sold tea to ONLY two > individuals, Mike Petro and a man named Gerald. Both orders were just a > few samples and totaled around 30$, including the 13 dollars or so for > air-shipping from Taiwan. The teas were authentic and vintage 60's > teas, though they had indeed spent time in wet storage. However, that > kind of tea is misunderstood in the West, I have since learned, and not > appreciated the way it is here. Anyway, neither of them liked the tea > and they are definitely entitled to their personal opinions. I also > don't wish to dispute the teas again, please. > > I then closed shop for two reasons: One reason was that I saw that they > had not appreciated the tea I had access to. The second was that I > noticed in myself that my good intentions to share tea culture had > indeed been affected by Greed. I did begin thinking about selling the > teas, and the cakes were approximately 300 dollars (though I never sold > one) and I would have had about 50 dollars profit from each one. I > planned to spend the money on more tea for myself. When I recognized > that emotion in myself, I decided the endeavor wasn't healthy. It was > wrong to let money pollute one of the great passions of my life. > > I had indeed asked a friend to send a "schill" to Mr. Mike Petro to > come to the website and it was dishonest and wrong. I also did in fact > publish a few of Gerald's emails to me on my site, but it was more > out of ignorance to the mores of internet culture than a desire to > deceive anyone. When he mentioned it, I immediately removed them. For > both of these wrongs I here publicly apologize. I am sorry. > > And if you are thinking that this public apology is too little too > late, I should like to tell you that some months ago I already > apologized to both of these individuals privately. I sent both of them > boxes containing a heartfelt apology, hand painted calligraphy I did > myself, some nice porcelain cups and over 20 bags with 10-15 gram > samples of some vintage Puerhs and aged oolongs each. It cost me quite > a bit, but obviously wasn't enough? > > Then, some months later someone was posting information on a forum and > Mike Petro accused me of doing this and of having lots of email > addresses, etc. His evidence for accusing me was that his team of > "PhD linguists" had analyzed the blog posts and discovered that it > matched my prose. The other evidence was that some photos were used > that had also been used on my website Aroma Serene. I am a part of a > group of hundreds of tea-lovers that share tea and meditation together > and the pictures came from that group. They are public property. > Nevertheless, I understand that I will be faulted for this too and > regardless of my involvement or not, will indeed be blamed. I can > accept that. After all, I am here admitting to guilt that Mike Petro > never has, and his word is of greater weight in this environment. It is > foolish, immature and downright silly to speak on it anymore. None of > these people that slander me have ever met me or even spoken to me. I > exchanged a total of 2-3 emails with Gerald and about 5-10 with Mike. > That's it. I have never had any contact with any others here (I > think). > > If your world is so black and white that you think mistakes turn > people into sleazy and dastardly devils whose only intention in life is > to hurt others, you've been watching too many cartoons. I'll spare > you the suspense and tell you now publicly and without shame that I am > a sinner. I have done wrong in my life. Sometimes I am angry, sometimes > naughty, I have lied; but I have also done good, sometimes I'm a good > friend, husband and/or father, sometimes I do well by my students. If > you wish to hate me, you may; but I don't hate any of you, even Mike > or Gerald who are only expressing that they felt wronged. > > Finally, I would say at last that judging a magazine based on one of > its editors is equally driven by a love for tabloidish scandal and > immaturity. I am but one of a huge staff of people here, and also but > one of hundreds of authors that will be represented. The first issue > has 25 or so articles and only 1 was written by me. Feel free not to > read it or to criticize it to shreds. When you buy a new computer you > choose a brand based on what's in the computer and how it runs, not > whether you like the CEO of HP or Apple better! Diversity makes any > publication good, newspaper or magazine. I am not The Art of Tea > Magazine and it is not me. The magazine will speak for itself, and it > is. We already have had thousands of pre-orders in Asia and have had > more than 200 positive emails about subscription and distribution from > many Western countries, including two major bookstore chains that are > considering it for retail on their shelves. Judging the magazine based > on me personally or my past mistakes is silly, and only prevents you > from sharing in on all the hundreds of Chinese authors that will now be > translated for you, and who have never done anything to you. > > As for the financial backing, my bosses, knowing me: of course they do. > Unlike Mike Petro or Gerald, they have spent considerable time working > with me and enjoying tea in our free time. These guys have been in this > business for twenty years. They are very smart and wouldn't hire > someone that was lying to them, nor would they be fooled culturally as > communication isn't a problem between us. And that is the sad thing > about all this silliness, if Mike, Gerald and I met randomly and > anonymously in person, I'm sure we'd get along great and be good > friends. > > Whether you want to check the magazine out or not is up to. We will > have avenues for you to criticize it and voice your opinions too. But I > wish you well in tea and ask forgiveness for my part in any > misunderstanding with any individuals anywhere. I honestly wish no hard > feelings, even all business aside. If you cannot forgive me, there is > nothing else I can offer beyond my apology and admittance of the guilty > part I played in any of this. > > Aaron Fisher |
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What You've Been Waiting For
On Oct 6, 6:03 am, Mike Petro > wrote: > On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 10:53:49 GMT, Michael Plant > > wrote: > > > > > > >Mike, > > >While I much appreciate your investigations on these creeps -- I say creeps > >based on having drunk Aroma Serene's supposedly most excellent Pu'erhs and > >having found them to be pure junk to the point where I threw the rest of my > >stashes away in the trash > > >MichaelPoint taken, and I do agree, but this character has taken the > mysticism to a whole new degree. I suspect mysticism was a vehicle to > enable him to cover the truth. > > Mike Hi Mike, hanks for the answer at the other place, I stated looking into this too.You dont sendn your riends to a place selling trash then lying that its Ethereal. Id like to take a look at this mag. How could Iget one? Oh where Oh where is a great ok excellent ok, real good TKY right now? Nudge me in the right direction, But not anywhere near AAron. Jenn - |
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What You've Been Waiting For
If I was knowingly and deliberately selling fake teas it would have
made more sense to send some great stuff as sample and then the fakes when real orders were placed, rather than making a whopping 3 dollars off of the "garbage" I sent Mr. Petro and Gerald. But beyond an apology I can offer nothing more to him or anyone else here. It's not as if we are selling a fake magazine with blank pages. Read a few issues, criticize the articles, the editing, the advertisings etc.- tear them to shreds if you like, but at least then your criticism will be reasonable and founded on more than absurd personal opinions about one of many of our employees. I have not dealt with anyone besides Mr. Petro and Gerald (and 1-2 emails from a guy in Singapore) despite whatever their Phd. research shows. However, you can blame me for all the wrongs that have ever occurred in the tea industry, global warming or worship me as Satan if it makes you feel better. Who or what I am is not at all the point. The point is that this immature slur attempt to drive my name through the mud has nothing to do with the magazine and no matter what you think of me, you should evaluate the product on its own merits. I am not the magazine and it isn't me. I am all for conscientious shopping but if your standard is that you won't purchase anything from any company that has an employee that has ever done anything morally questionable then you'd better give all your property to charity and move to a cave somewhere- being very careful which charity you choose. Surely, then you don't drive a car, motorcycle or ride on a bus or plane as that would support the oil industry. And maybe one of the clerks at your supermarket has a gambling problem, so you'd better stop going there. The janitor at the company that manufactured your computer is an excon too, on parole for assaulting an innocent police officer, and as Mr. Petro says "no legitimate company would associate with one of such a bad reputation." You can't get worse than a convicted felon for reputation, so no more computer. While you're at it, you'd better stop paying taxes lest you support some political corruption. Furthermore, I, Aaron Fisher, am not the Executive Editor for the magazine, I am just an editor. And I'm not here to judge anyone. Maybe Mike Petro is a much better person than me. I am happy to let him be that in reputation and in life, but even saints don't cast stones. |
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What You've Been Waiting For
On 9 Oct 2006 01:47:15 -0700, "art of tea magazine"
> wrote: [much snippage interspersed] Yawn..... >If I was knowingly and deliberately selling fake teas it would have >made more sense to send some great stuff as sample and then the fakes >when real orders were placed, rather than making a whopping 3 dollars >off of the "garbage" I sent Mr. Petro and Gerald. But beyond an >apology I never accused you of selling fake tea per se, all I said was that your tea was crap. I, Geraldo, and Michael Plant all drew the same conclusion and all three of us literally threw the remainder of the tea away rather than drink it. Maybe wet storage puerh is acceptable in your circles, it is not in ours, especially if the fact is not disclosed in advance. In any event when I was honest with you about it, and still quite diplomatic, all you did was ridicule me and my friends saying we didn't know what good puerh was nor how to brew it. > However, you can blame me for all the wrongs that have ever >occurred in the tea industry, global warming or worship me as Satan if >it makes you feel better. Who or what I am is not at all the point. Ahh but "who or what you are" is EXACTLY the point. You came into our midst, once again, advertising your latest venture. You clearly, by virtue of your signature and email address, portrayed that you hold a role of major significance in the publication. You also hid your true identity once again, which is a real big red flag! Hint: Don't advertise here if you don't want to be scrutinized! Editorial integrity is important to me in the publications I choose. Much like I would not buy the National Enquirer or Globe periodical, I would not buy a magazine managed by Editors whose integrity is so deeply in question. If I am paying for a magazine I want to be able to believe it's contents, and with you I never know what to believe. So "what and who you are" is indeed the point! >Furthermore, I, Aaron Fisher, am not the Executive Editor for the >magazine, I am just an editor. My apologies, but as reported by Phyll this was the way you signed your name. It is also the title you used when talking to people in Kunming. [Phyll] "I received an email today with the same exact message as above from The Art of Tea Magazine's Executive Editor (no name). .... and s/he emailed me back saying that s/he is very enthusiastic about the upcoming publication in English, and signed the email "Executive Editor". I thought this was funny...someone who claims to be an authority figure of a publication but who is reluctant to reveal his/her name. " I guess the title is no longer convenient.......... -- Mike Petro http://www.pu-erh.net |
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What You've Been Waiting For (or not)
/7/06
> This thread now touches on a zone of compelling interest to me: the way > synthetic mysticism is used to support and inhibit direct personal > experience. > > [Michael] >>> A bit of silent ritual enhances the tea experience. A bit of mysticism that >>> brings us to a greater awareness of what the tea is doing in our mouths does >>> not go amiss; and any method we bring to the table that tunes and enhances >>> our concentration is a good thing. ... > (Zen references trimmed to avoid objectifying the absolute) > > [Mike] >> ... In this "business" it >> seems that mysticism is used predominantly for marketing and seldom >> for spirituality. Almost every time I see mysticism brought into play >> it is to create some "story" whose prime purpose is to inflate the >> price of the tea. ... >> When mysticism is used to "sell" a product it is the consumer who >> always loses... > > Some make a distinction between two forms of hidden knowledge: mysteries > and secrets. Secrets are information known and directly transmissible, > whose concealment provides advantage to some. Releasing this information > reduces or eliminates its special value to the holder. > > Mysteries include the kind of informedness that requires non-verbal > transmission and direct experience. Concealment and "trading" > transactions are irrelevant, because the content cannot be coded into > words in a way that conveys the important meaning. Some mysteries are > described as self-secret: they are available everywhere, all the time, > but will not be perceived and understood until the vessel is properly > cleaned and seasoned. Most true spiritual teachings are like this: > well-publicized, impossible to understand beyond the level of slogan and > cliche and truism until the moment of personal insight exists, and then > blindingly obvious in a way that remains very difficult to communicate > to a non-seer. One definition of a teacher is someone who can help the > student to prepare his/her own vessel, then put forth a truth with such > clarity and simplicity that it can easily be received. > > There is a third category of non-knowledge: ignorance. IMO, this society > is crippled by a fear of ignorance, and a driving need to fill creative > emptiness with any sort of chaff, no matter how much that may impede > further development. Ignorance and confusion are honorable; without > both, there would be no progress. > > In agreeing with Michael and Mike, I would further elaborate that many > people in the tea world seem to experience a need for > knowledge-as-control even where this does not enhance their direct > relationship with their drink. So we find endless procreation of myth, > misinformation and gratuitous dogma. Or, as indicted in this discussion, > ignorance wrapped in a cloak of either secrecy or mystery. Threads > here and elsewhere have questioned the righteousness of vendors who > choose not to disclose production details of their offerings. That, to > me, is a perfectly reasonable business decision for both parties: what > to tell, whether or not to buy, and on what basis of information, > reputation, relationship or other coin of credibility. > > I hold, though, that counterfeiting mystery where none exists is a > direct assault on the real gold here, the simple enjoyment (alone or in > company, with a tin cup or a vintage set of celadon, with tuppence worth > of stale leaf or a couriered pick of mountain green, before a shrine or > a television) of the brewed leaf. Many paths, perhaps even many ways. > IMO, anything that diverts a seeker of truth or pleasure from the > self-revealed personal path, whether through rigid rules, deliberate > obfuscation or the mindless objectification of legend, is an exercise in > service of ego and counter to the good of all. The priciest leaf in a > good cigar is the wrapper, but the best tea comes in very plain packages. > > -DM Aha! All I meant to say was that paying close attention to the tea and its preparation makes the experience that much more interesting. Some ritual helps that awareness along. Discovering a new demension in a tea, a demension that you find you can't easily express (if at all) is what is technically known in the jargon as a "happy mystery." Yet the last thing in the world I'd want to do is mystify you. That's the last from me.That's it. There is no more. Dogma's point that the "I know something you don't know, and I'm not gonna tell you" syndrome is crap is very well taken indeed. Catching the mystery, as somebody in my past had said, is "as easy as falling off a log." Yadayadayada. Michael |
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What You've Been Waiting For
> > Mike,
> [snip] > > Meanwhile on a positive side. We had 4 people order > > samples and we are positive we will win you 4 over. Not exactly, if you ask your friend Gerald he will tell you that he ordered 3 sample bags that he told me were for himself and 2 of his friends, which including you equals 4. > Actually I have close to 50 emails from you in my archives, many are > extremely prolific. Another small example of the typical - uh - > "inaccuracy" in your statements. 50 seems high, but okay. And even if everyone of them was chalk full of lies, it still says nothing about the magazine, only about my character. And I would still say that you don't really know me, and I would further still argue that we would probably be great friends even this very day if we met somewhere anonymously. > I can punch holes through many of your other claims as well, but why > bother... Go ahead and shout till your hoarse about how dispicable I am. I know in my heart what I'm guilty of and what is just rumor. I will repent my own sins in my own way and it won't have anything to do with whatever judgement you or anyone else here casts upon me. It is between me and my own death. > Look Aaron, in this business we Westerners MUST trust our vendors as > we are usually buying tea sight unseen, often at several dollars per > gram . This means that "trust" in a relationship is valued more than > anything else during the process. Without trust we Westerners cant > effectively do business with Asia. I understand. However I did send you a rather expensive apology and there is no way that could have been misconstrued as some kind of gimmik, since it was way after I closed shop and I blatantly said it was purely by way of apology for any wrong I did and for writing you a negative email when you accused me of something I wasn't directly involved in. I couldn't have thoughtthat you would want to buy anything from me either. Again, here I am apologizing. That calligraphy, note, cups and tea took time, money and love to prepare and send you. I'm not here seeking credit for it or a thanks, that would negate the apology. I'm merely trying to point out that I offered my apologies to you and Gerald in a way that was more than just words and long before the current discussion. > If you are so honorable why do you always cloak your identity? I didn't here claim to be high and mighty. In fact, I admitted that I had wronged you. I said quite clearly above that I'm just a normal guy with a dirty backyard, a sinner. And if you were truly a saint, rather than a panty hose factory worker, you wouldn't be judging me personally. Read the magazine and criticize it. I still believe you are a good person and I think this grapevine talk isn't the best side of your character anymore than the lying was the best side of mine. It all sounds like the guys on the forums that discuss the online games my son plays, where they bash each other for a half an hour because one of them didn't deserve the +2 ring of ice knowledge. >Why have you used so many different names and email addresses? You hid > your identity here too until I outed you, why didn't you use your real > name when you spammed this group, the Puerh LJ Community, and several > private enthusiasts two days ago? . What are you always trying to > hide? It is REALLY hard to trust a man who hides his identity! > > With so many "inaccuracies" why should I expect your publication to be > any different? And YES, the fact that you hold a title of such > significant responsibility, "Executive Editor", does indeed link your > personal reputation to that of your publication. I am not the Executive Editor, he is a Chinese man as you will see when you open the cover of the magazine. I am just an editor. Though I was asked to submit the above add to some blogs, forums, etc. on behalf of the magazine, and I had some help with that so even the above spams, etc. weren't all placed by me as if it matters. They were just that, generic spam. As I said, Mike, this is all really beneath both of us. I really felt like ignoring it all, and not out of righteous indignation just because I don't want to participate in such gossip. But here I am, and I am here because some of the rumors and/or gossip is based in fact and therefore it would be irresponsible of me not to participate in the thread and admit my guilt for what it's worth. But too much of this is personal. It should have been handled personally. |
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What You've Been Waiting For
> I never accused you of selling fake tea per se, all I said was that > your tea was crap. "If that brick was a 1965 then my name is Hillary Clinton! {snip} Do you honestly believe that I don't know enough to know a 40+ cake when I taste it?" These are your quotes. See I can play this silly game too, and see you exaggerate and get involved emotionaly and contradict yourself just as every other human being on the planet does! |
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What You've Been Waiting For
art of tea magazine wrote: > > I never accused you of selling fake tea per se, all I said was that > > your tea was crap. > > > "If that brick was a 1965 then my name is Hillary Clinton! > {snip} > Do you honestly believe that I don't know enough to know a 40+ cake > when I taste it?" > > These are your quotes. See I can play this silly game too, and see you > exaggerate and get involved emotionaly and contradict yourself just as > every other human being on the planet does! Heheh, OK, now you want to play semantics. Look up the use of "per se". I never said your tea was "fake", I simply implied that it wasn't the age advertised, If you interpret that as meaning "fake" then accept my apologies and replace "fake" with "crap". Your alleged 1965 didn't taste like any 40 year old brick I, or any of my tea enthusiast friends, have ever tasted. Of course at $300 per brick I didn't really expect a 40 year old brick either; however I had hoped you would prove me wrong on that assumption! Nonetheless, the tea was crap by whatever semantics you wish to use. What really really got me was how much you so eloquently raved about the superior quality of the tea, and how utterly bad it was. Will you use this same ill-placed eloquence in your magazine? To me "fake" is when you put a false neifei and/or wrapper on a cake, or when you alter a cake through devious storage techniques to changes its appearance and smell so that you can intentionally sell a 5 year cake as a 40 year old, in other words a forgery. I couldn't say that any of your teas were "fake" as you never disclosed the pedigree of any of them. You made up some pretty names like "Rainbow" and "Joy" but neglected to tell me the factory, harvest region, or any other important specification. You only even gave me the vintage on 2 of them. To be "fake" they would have had to "imitate" something. If you don't portray them as being anything specific then how can they be fake? Mike http://www.pu-erh.net |
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What You've Been Waiting For
Aaron Fisher wrote:
[snip] > I understand. However I did send you a rather expensive apology and > there is no way that could have been misconstrued as some kind of > gimmik, since it was way after I closed shop and I blatantly said it > was purely by way of apology for any wrong I did and for writing you a > negative email when you accused me of something I wasn't directly > involved in. I couldn't have thoughtthat you would want to buy anything > from me either. Again, here I am apologizing. That calligraphy, note, > cups and tea took time, money and love to prepare and send you. I'm not > here seeking credit for it or a thanks, that would negate the apology. > I'm merely trying to point out that I offered my apologies to you and > Gerald in a way that was more than just words and long before the > current discussion. Giving credit where credit is due, you did send me a nice little care package, and some of the tea samples were actually pretty damn good. AromaSerene might have actually been successful if you would have sent Gerald and me teas of that quality the first time around. Your psuedo "apology note" was a bit confusing though since it included, amongst other things, that you never wanted to talk to me again and that you were going to set your email client up to filter out any email sent by me. > > If you are so honorable why do you always cloak your identity? > > I didn't here claim to be high and mighty. In fact, I admitted that I > had wronged you. I said quite clearly above that I'm just a normal guy > with a dirty backyard, a sinner. OK, all innuendo aside, you never did answer my question, WHY do you so frequently cloak your identity? > And if you were truly a saint, rather > than a panty hose factory worker, you wouldn't be judging me > personally. A "Saint" I am not nor have I ever claimed to be, but integrity involving my passion for tea, and those with whom I do tea business with, is of paramount importance to me. If you are trying to insult my profession, I am an IT Manager and Automation Engineer at a Nylon Extrusion factory. I am responsible for millions of dollars worth of Robotics, Computer Systems, and Factory Automation equipment. I am not ashamed of this. Yes, some of our product does wind up in Victoria Secret intimate apparel etc, I just wish I was also responsible for interviewing/selecting the models. > As I said, Mike, this is all really beneath both of us. I really felt > like ignoring it all, and not out of righteous indignation just because > I don't want to participate in such gossip. But here I am, and I am > here because some of the rumors and/or gossip is based in fact and > therefore it would be irresponsible of me not to participate in the > thread and admit my guilt for what it's worth. But too much of this is > personal. It should have been handled personally. How can I "handle it personally" if you are filtering all my emails? Note; not a single person has come to your defense so far, if anything it has been the opposite. You would have been better off letting someone else of better reputation, or even no reputation, promote the magazine. The whole idea of an English Puerh magazine is absolutely fantastic. I contributed questions to it the very first time the request was made on another forum, of course I didn't know of you involvement at that time either. You have lost your credibility in my book; you will have to "earn" that back again. Showing up here and not even having the nerve to admit your identity is not the way to earn my, nor anybody else's, trust back. It reeks of old habits...... Mike http://www.pu-erh.net |
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Saints forbid
Guys, guys, guys!
Saints are *not* by definition flawless beings; they are rather creatures of poor, and often nasty, mental habit, who overcame themselves in their quest for God. Let us not abuse the word so lightly. It's not perfection but the conquest of imperfection that makes us saints. (Some might say; that is, IMHO.) BTW, I have personally tasted the teas Aaron claims are so fine and Mike says are "crap". Based on this, I can only say that Aaron fits the first qualification for sainthood, if not the second, if you follow my meaning. Michael |
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What You've Been Waiting For
4 things:
1. Did Aaron remove/retract his apology above? It's gone. Oh well, I guess he didn't mean that. The funny thing is that what he wrote is still readable in subsequent responses under "show quoted text". This issue is becoming more of a turn off for me, despite the involvement of an esteemed tea friend. What an amateur! 2. Mike, granted the tea you received was crap, aren't there good wet storage and bad wet storage pu'er? Heard a bit about it, though I'm not sure...haven't experienced any or many wet storage (not that I know of, anyway). 3. The apology on LJ Puerh Community was signed as Executive Editor and the email I received was also signed by Executive Editor (no name on both). Well, unless it was Aaron's boss who posted on LJ Puerh and emailed me, which I doubt, then Aaron is telling the truth. Otherwise, he promoted himself to an Executive level nicely. << Aaron Fisher wrote: Furthermore, I, Aaron Fisher, am not the Executive Editor for the magazine, I am just an editor.>> 4. What is "Saints Forbid" in the new title? (Rhetorical question, mostly  Phyll Mike Petro wrote: > On 9 Oct 2006 01:47:15 -0700, "art of tea magazine" > > wrote: > > [much snippage interspersed] > > Yawn..... > > >If I was knowingly and deliberately selling fake teas it would have > >made more sense to send some great stuff as sample and then the fakes > >when real orders were placed, rather than making a whopping 3 dollars > >off of the "garbage" I sent Mr. Petro and Gerald. But beyond an > >apology > > I never accused you of selling fake tea per se, all I said was that > your tea was crap. I, Geraldo, and Michael Plant all drew the same > conclusion and all three of us literally threw the remainder of the > tea away rather than drink it. Maybe wet storage puerh is acceptable > in your circles, it is not in ours, especially if the fact is not > disclosed in advance. In any event when I was honest with you about > it, and still quite diplomatic, all you did was ridicule me and my > friends saying we didn't know what good puerh was nor how to brew it. > > > > However, you can blame me for all the wrongs that have ever > >occurred in the tea industry, global warming or worship me as Satan if > >it makes you feel better. Who or what I am is not at all the point. > > Ahh but "who or what you are" is EXACTLY the point. You came into our > midst, once again, advertising your latest venture. You clearly, by > virtue of your signature and email address, portrayed that you hold a > role of major significance in the publication. You also hid your true > identity once again, which is a real big red flag! > > Hint: Don't advertise here if you don't want to be scrutinized! > > Editorial integrity is important to me in the publications I choose. > Much like I would not buy the National Enquirer or Globe periodical, I > would not buy a magazine managed by Editors whose integrity is so > deeply in question. If I am paying for a magazine I want to be able to > believe it's contents, and with you I never know what to believe. So > "what and who you are" is indeed the point! > > >Furthermore, I, Aaron Fisher, am not the Executive Editor for the > >magazine, I am just an editor. > > My apologies, but as reported by Phyll this was the way you signed > your name. It is also the title you used when talking to people in > Kunming. > > [Phyll] > "I received an email today with the same exact message as above from > The Art of Tea Magazine's Executive Editor (no name). .... and s/he > emailed me back saying that s/he is very enthusiastic about the > upcoming publication in English, and signed the email "Executive > Editor". I thought this was funny...someone who claims to be an > authority figure of a publication but who is reluctant > to reveal his/her name. " > > I guess the title is no longer convenient.......... > > > -- > Mike Petro > http://www.pu-erh.net |
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What You've Been Waiting For
5th thing:
This thread is like very much like a personal vendetta by Mike Petro against Aaron Fisher. Perhaps the points have been clearly made by all parties. My 2 cents is to urge everyone to sit back, relax, wait and BORROW the 1st English publication of the magazine, read it in the toilet, and judge the magazine's content. See if it's good or if it's like a wet storage magazine. Aaron's reputation maybe suspect. But to pre-judge a magazine -- not even by its cover -- is just very premature. All I'm saying is give the magazine a chance. My 2 cents and imho. Phyll Phyll wrote: > 4 things: > > 1. Did Aaron remove/retract his apology above? It's gone. Oh well, I > guess he didn't mean that. The funny thing is that what he wrote is > still readable in subsequent responses under "show quoted text". This > issue is becoming more of a turn off for me, despite the involvement of > an esteemed tea friend. What an amateur! > > 2. Mike, granted the tea you received was crap, aren't there good wet > storage and bad wet storage pu'er? Heard a bit about it, though I'm > not sure...haven't experienced any or many wet storage (not that I know > of, anyway). > > 3. The apology on LJ Puerh Community was signed as Executive Editor and > the email I received was also signed by Executive Editor (no name on > both). Well, unless it was Aaron's boss who posted on LJ Puerh and > emailed me, which I doubt, then Aaron is telling the truth. Otherwise, > he promoted himself to an Executive level nicely. << Aaron Fisher > wrote: Furthermore, I, Aaron Fisher, am not the Executive Editor for > the magazine, I am just an editor.>> > > 4. What is "Saints Forbid" in the new title? (Rhetorical question, > mostly > > Phyll > > > Mike Petro wrote: > > On 9 Oct 2006 01:47:15 -0700, "art of tea magazine" > > > wrote: > > > > [much snippage interspersed] > > > > Yawn..... > > > > >If I was knowingly and deliberately selling fake teas it would have > > >made more sense to send some great stuff as sample and then the fakes > > >when real orders were placed, rather than making a whopping 3 dollars > > >off of the "garbage" I sent Mr. Petro and Gerald. But beyond an > > >apology > > > > I never accused you of selling fake tea per se, all I said was that > > your tea was crap. I, Geraldo, and Michael Plant all drew the same > > conclusion and all three of us literally threw the remainder of the > > tea away rather than drink it. Maybe wet storage puerh is acceptable > > in your circles, it is not in ours, especially if the fact is not > > disclosed in advance. In any event when I was honest with you about > > it, and still quite diplomatic, all you did was ridicule me and my > > friends saying we didn't know what good puerh was nor how to brew it. > > > > > > > However, you can blame me for all the wrongs that have ever > > >occurred in the tea industry, global warming or worship me as Satan if > > >it makes you feel better. Who or what I am is not at all the point. > > > > Ahh but "who or what you are" is EXACTLY the point. You came into our > > midst, once again, advertising your latest venture. You clearly, by > > virtue of your signature and email address, portrayed that you hold a > > role of major significance in the publication. You also hid your true > > identity once again, which is a real big red flag! > > > > Hint: Don't advertise here if you don't want to be scrutinized! > > > > Editorial integrity is important to me in the publications I choose. > > Much like I would not buy the National Enquirer or Globe periodical, I > > would not buy a magazine managed by Editors whose integrity is so > > deeply in question. If I am paying for a magazine I want to be able to > > believe it's contents, and with you I never know what to believe. So > > "what and who you are" is indeed the point! > > > > >Furthermore, I, Aaron Fisher, am not the Executive Editor for the > > >magazine, I am just an editor. > > > > My apologies, but as reported by Phyll this was the way you signed > > your name. It is also the title you used when talking to people in > > Kunming. > > > > [Phyll] > > "I received an email today with the same exact message as above from > > The Art of Tea Magazine's Executive Editor (no name). .... and s/he > > emailed me back saying that s/he is very enthusiastic about the > > upcoming publication in English, and signed the email "Executive > > Editor". I thought this was funny...someone who claims to be an > > authority figure of a publication but who is reluctant > > to reveal his/her name. " > > > > I guess the title is no longer convenient.......... > > > > > > -- > > Mike Petro > > http://www.pu-erh.net |
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What You've Been Waiting For
Phyll wrote: > 5th thing: > > This thread is like very much like a personal vendetta by Mike Petro > against Aaron Fisher. Perhaps the points have been clearly made by all > parties. My 2 cents is to urge everyone to sit back, relax, wait and > BORROW the 1st English publication of the magazine, read it in the > toilet, and judge the magazine's content. See if it's good or if it's > like a wet storage magazine. > > Aaron's reputation maybe suspect. But to pre-judge a magazine -- not > even by its cover -- is just very premature. All I'm saying is give > the magazine a chance. Hi Phyll, You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Yes, I do have strong opinions about this man. If you had the dealings with him that I did I suspect you would have strong feelings as well. No, I am not judging the magazine. I am judging the (executive?)Editor who in turn has considerable influence over the magazine. I said my piece early on, Aaron Fisher is not to be trusted. Sharing our bad experiences with Vendors is in keeping with what this group does. I would have left it at that, everything else has been fueled by rebuttals on one side or another, both in this forum and on Tea-Disc. Mike http://www.pu-erh.net BTW, while wet storage puerh is fairly popular in Hong Kong, most other puerh aficionados shun it though. It has an overwhelming note of mold or mildew to it that most find undesirable. Think sour wet laundry and you get the idea! |
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What You've Been Waiting For
On Oct 9, 5:54 am, "art of tea magazine" > wrote: > > > Mike, > >> > Look Aaron, in this business we Westerners MUST trust our vendors as > > we are usually buying tea sight unseen, often at several dollars per > > gram . This means that "trust" in a relationship is valued more than > > anything else during the process. Without trust we Westerners cant > > effectively do business with Asia.I understand. However I did send you a rather expensive apology and > there is no way that could have been misconstrued as some kind of > gimmik, since it was way after I closed shop and I blatantly said it > was purely by way of apology for any wrong I To the guy who may be Aaron, If I say some stuff about you and you me will you send me a nice cup with calligraphy and a really good Ti Kuan Yin? I was innocent before but now I am not (because I have read much about you) So does this qualify me for the care package? Jenn |
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Saints forbid
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:24:07 GMT, Michael Plant wrote:
> Saints are *not* by definition flawless beings; Of course they're not. They've never even made it to the Super Bowl, much less gone undefeated. -- Derek "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." -- Douglas Adams |
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Ping Phyll, Derek [Saints forbid]
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Ping Phyll, Derek [Saints forbid]
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:59:55 GMT, Michael Plant wrote:
> Cute, Derek! Here I am trying to contribute a little serious discussion > about sainthood, and you come in with Super Bowl. Jeez! (Don't get mad, > I mean that in a good way.) Personally, I place more stock in Supper Bowl. Oops. Sorry 'bout that. I've been out-of-the-loop for a few days since a computer crash last Friday. Must have missed the "serious discussion" thread. I'll pay more attention in the future.... or not. (heh.) -- Derek "A good listener is usually thinking about something else." -- Kin Hubbard |
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What You've Been Waiting For
> BTW, while wet storage puerh is fairly popular in Hong Kong, most other > puerh aficionados shun it though. It has an overwhelming note of mold > or mildew to it that most find undesirable. Think sour wet laundry and > you get the idea! That's actually an unfair characterization of wet storage puerh. Properly done wet storage, if nothing else, tastes better than cooked puerh, and there are PLENTY of people who like cooked puerh. I've had wet storage that, while not as impressive as nicely done, dry stroage puerh of good raw materials, are nothing to scoff at. The poorly done or mismanged wet storage are the ones that turn out nasty. The good ones you don't even know you're drinking wet storage unless you know exactly what to look for. Chances are you'll just think something is well aged. A multitude of cakes that were made prior to the late 80s have probably been through wet storage at some point in Hong Kong, and if you've, say, bought a sample of a cake from the 70s, you're probably drinking some wet storage pu. |
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Wet, Dry, Cooked [was: What You've Been Waiting For]
>> BTW, while wet storage puerh is fairly popular in Hong Kong, most other
>> puerh aficionados shun it though. It has an overwhelming note of mold >> or mildew to it that most find undesirable. Think sour wet laundry and >> you get the idea! > > That's actually an unfair characterization of wet storage puerh. > Properly done wet storage, if nothing else, tastes better than cooked > puerh, and there are PLENTY of people who like cooked puerh. I've had > wet storage that, while not as impressive as nicely done, dry stroage > puerh of good raw materials, are nothing to scoff at. > > The poorly done or mismanged wet storage are the ones that turn out > nasty. The good ones you don't even know you're drinking wet storage > unless you know exactly what to look for. Chances are you'll just > think something is well aged. A multitude of cakes that were made > prior to the late 80s have probably been through wet storage at some > point in Hong Kong, and if you've, say, bought a sample of a cake from > the 70s, you're probably drinking some wet storage pu. "Wet Storage" is a funny phrase. On the one hand we have the get-it-going-fast wet blanket treatment of the pre-cake leaf, and on the other we have storage environments that alternate more and less humidity in some configuration or other. Sun Sing, a reputable Hong Kong tea company, advocates at least some high humidity storage along the cake's path to greatness. They have been almost apologetic about this, but their teas are among the best I've tasted. They are not free. BTW MarshalN, please don't forget to cite your quotes. I don't know who the OP above is. Michael |
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Wet, Dry, Cooked [was: What You've Been Waiting For]
Michael Plant wrote: > >> BTW, while wet storage puerh is fairly popular in Hong Kong, most other > >> puerh aficionados shun it though. It has an overwhelming note of mold > >> or mildew to it that most find undesirable. Think sour wet laundry and > >> you get the idea! > > > > That's actually an unfair characterization of wet storage puerh. > > Properly done wet storage, if nothing else, tastes better than cooked > > puerh, and there are PLENTY of people who like cooked puerh. I've had > > wet storage that, while not as impressive as nicely done, dry stroage > > puerh of good raw materials, are nothing to scoff at. > > > > The poorly done or mismanged wet storage are the ones that turn out > > nasty. The good ones you don't even know you're drinking wet storage > > unless you know exactly what to look for. Chances are you'll just > > think something is well aged. A multitude of cakes that were made > > prior to the late 80s have probably been through wet storage at some > > point in Hong Kong, and if you've, say, bought a sample of a cake from > > the 70s, you're probably drinking some wet storage pu. > > "Wet Storage" is a funny phrase. On the one hand we have the > get-it-going-fast wet blanket treatment of the pre-cake leaf, and on the > other we have storage environments that alternate more and less humidity in > some configuration or other. Sun Sing, a reputable Hong Kong tea company, > advocates at least some high humidity storage along the cake's path to > greatness. They have been almost apologetic about this, but their teas are > among the best I've tasted. They are not free. > > BTW MarshalN, please don't forget to cite your quotes. I don't know who the > OP above is. > > Michael Since the quoted text appeared right above my post (in Mike Petro's reply to Phyll) I thought it was obvious enough... Most wet storage just invovles sticking the tea in storage that is high in humidity. It does not mean sprikling the tea liberally with water. In fact, that will almost guarantee mould, and that's bad because most people don't like mouldy taste, even the ones who prefer the "Hong Kong storage" taste. |
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