Does anyone have experience buying teapots from the ebay store
http://stores.ebay.com/5000friend ?
They have a large selection of yixing listed as pre-1960 at what look
like reasonable prices, even allowing for ~$30 shipping. They also
seem to have decent feedback and several repeat customers. Everything
I read about buying Yixing--old or new--screams caveat emptor, but some
of those pots look pretty neat to me.

Bill Wolfe wrote:
> Does anyone have experience buying teapots from the ebay store
> http://stores.ebay.com/5000friend ?
> They have a large selection of yixing listed as pre-1960 at what look
> like reasonable prices, even allowing for ~$30 shipping. They also
> seem to have decent feedback and several repeat customers. Everything
> I read about buying Yixing--old or new--screams caveat emptor, but some
> of those pots look pretty neat to me.

I was looking at his history to figure out if he partook of the common
Chinese practice of setting up fake ebay accounts to give himself high
ratings, and it's not totally clear. He's either doing that or
constantly selling pots to the same people. I would be careful, this
could be a scam.

Bill Wolfe wrote:
> Does anyone have experience buying teapots from the ebay store
> http://stores.ebay.com/5000friend ?
> They have a large selection of yixing listed as pre-1960 at what look
> like reasonable prices, even allowing for ~$30 shipping. They also
> seem to have decent feedback and several repeat customers. Everything
> I read about buying Yixing--old or new--screams caveat emptor, but some
> of those pots look pretty neat to me.

I personally won't buy any pot sight unseen, unless it's a vendor who
will definitely take it back with no questions asked. Given the high
costs, shipping and otherwise.... don't do it, especially if the pot is
expensive. If it's cheap and you don't mind if it turns out to be
crap, then it's not that big a deal, but given the age range you're
quoting... that doesn't seem likely.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

If you look at one pot after another you quickly notice that the
griminess (which is despicably bad) is very uniform and black. I
suspect that these are (badly) antiqued. Even if they were real, I
can't think of any way they'd get that black without totally neglecting
hygiene. Would you really want to brew tea in those? Nasty.

Cameron


Bill Wolfe wrote:
> Does anyone have experience buying teapots from the ebay store
> http://stores.ebay.com/5000friend ?
> They have a large selection of yixing listed as pre-1960 at what look
> like reasonable prices, even allowing for ~$30 shipping. They also
> seem to have decent feedback and several repeat customers. Everything
> I read about buying Yixing--old or new--screams caveat emptor, but some
> of those pots look pretty neat to me.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the pu'erh he's got listed is fake. I don't
think Menghai was using the dayi wrapper in '99 and the cake itself
looks no older than an '04.

Cameron



Bill Wolfe wrote:
> Does anyone have experience buying teapots from the ebay store
> http://stores.ebay.com/5000friend ?
> They have a large selection of yixing listed as pre-1960 at what look
> like reasonable prices, even allowing for ~$30 shipping. They also
> seem to have decent feedback and several repeat customers. Everything
> I read about buying Yixing--old or new--screams caveat emptor, but some
> of those pots look pretty neat to me.

Cameron Lewis wrote:
> Also, I'm pretty sure that the pu'erh he's got listed is fake. I don't
> think Menghai was using the dayi wrapper in '99 and the cake itself
> looks no older than an '04.
>
> Cameron
>
>
>
> Bill Wolfe wrote:
> > Does anyone have experience buying teapots from the ebay store
> > http://stores.ebay.com/5000friend ?
> > They have a large selection of yixing listed as pre-1960 at what look
> > like reasonable prices, even allowing for ~$30 shipping. They also
> > seem to have decent feedback and several repeat customers. Everything
> > I read about buying Yixing--old or new--screams caveat emptor, but some
> > of those pots look pretty neat to me.

Is there a way to report such things on eBay without already having
been ripped off?

Cameron Lewis wrote:
> Also, I'm pretty sure that the pu'erh he's got listed is fake. I don't
> think Menghai was using the dayi wrapper in '99 and the cake itself
> looks no older than an '04.
>
> Cameron
>
Menghai was definitely starting to use the Dayi wrapper by 99. Now,
whether it's real or not is another question, and I'm not an expert
wrapperologist.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

Just as Marshal said, buying yixing over the Internet is like gambling:
you should only pay what you can comfortably afford to lose. I would
advise that you keep your expectations low and be pleasantly surprised
if the item turns out to be good.

I've ordered from maybe four or five Mainland eBay vendors now, and the
majority of them provide substandard goods (note, Scott @ Yunnan
Sourcing is, as most people on here already know, very decent).

About your vendor in particular: I've had a quick look at some of the
"1900-1960s" pots and I'm not convinced. A forty year old pot is going
to cost you much more than that, and, well, they just don't look forty
years old.


Toodlepip,

Hobbes

"HobbesOxon" > writes:

> Just as Marshal said, buying yixing over the Internet is like gambling:
> you should only pay what you can comfortably afford to lose. I would
> advise that you keep your expectations low and be pleasantly surprised
> if the item turns out to be good.
>
> I've ordered from maybe four or five Mainland eBay vendors now, and the
> majority of them provide substandard goods (note, Scott @ Yunnan
> Sourcing is, as most people on here already know, very decent).
>
> About your vendor in particular: I've had a quick look at some of the
> "1900-1960s" pots and I'm not convinced. A forty year old pot is going
> to cost you much more than that, and, well, they just don't look forty
> years old.

Sooner or later, we're going to see an eBay vendor flogging thick,
40-year-old Pu'er bricks, each with a fine contemporaneous Yixing pot
inside it.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

HobbesOxon wrote:
> Just as Marshal said, buying yixing over the Internet is like gambling:
> you should only pay what you can comfortably afford to lose. I would
> advise that you keep your expectations low and be pleasantly surprised
> if the item turns out to be good.
>
> I've ordered from maybe four or five Mainland eBay vendors now, and the
> majority of them provide substandard goods (note, Scott @ Yunnan
> Sourcing is, as most people on here already know, very decent).
>
> About your vendor in particular: I've had a quick look at some of the
> "1900-1960s" pots and I'm not convinced. A forty year old pot is going
> to cost you much more than that, and, well, they just don't look forty
> years old.
>
>
> Toodlepip,
>
> Hobbes

It's striking that no contributor to this lest can vouch for this guy.
I've bought a few pots on eBay over the years. A couple turned out to
be decent brewing vessels and wound up as gifts, Others dripped or had
other functional problems and wound up in the trash. None were great
bargains, though all were cheap. The idea of picking up a decent
40-year-old pot for $60 is very appealing, but I guess I'll stick with
vendors like Brian Wright, who I know through experience or reputation.
Thanks to all who weighed in!
BW

There is also the fact that he's selling Meng Ku, Fu Hai, and Lang He
products as "Menghai Tea Factory" stuff. While I think that Fu Hai and
Lang He are in Menghai county, Meng Ku definitely isn't.

The reason I think that the vintage (at least) of the Dayi wrapped cake
is fake is that the buds are too brightly silvery and the cake is just
too green to be 7 years old. Since my '99 7542s are zhong cha label
wrapped, I just assumed that they hadn't started with the dayi label
yet.

Cheers,

Cameron

MarshalN wrote:
> Cameron Lewis wrote:
> > Also, I'm pretty sure that the pu'erh he's got listed is fake. I don't
> > think Menghai was using the dayi wrapper in '99 and the cake itself
> > looks no older than an '04.
> >
> > Cameron
> >
> Menghai was definitely starting to use the Dayi wrapper by 99. Now,
> whether it's real or not is another question, and I'm not an expert
> wrapperologist.
>
> MarshalN
> http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

Cameron Lewis wrote:
> There is also the fact that he's selling Meng Ku, Fu Hai, and Lang He
> products as "Menghai Tea Factory" stuff. While I think that Fu Hai and
> Lang He are in Menghai county, Meng Ku definitely isn't.
>
> The reason I think that the vintage (at least) of the Dayi wrapped cake
> is fake is that the buds are too brightly silvery and the cake is just
> too green to be 7 years old. Since my '99 7542s are zhong cha label
> wrapped, I just assumed that they hadn't started with the dayi label
> yet.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cameron
>From what I understand anyway, Dayi was first used in the late 80s for
export products, and by the mid 90s there were already wrappers that
look similar to the Dayi wrappers we see today. I know for a fact that
1999 has lots of Dayi cakes, although I can't say if this one is or is
not a fake.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

Bill Wolfe wrote:

> It's striking that no contributor to this lest can vouch for this guy.
> I've bought a few pots on eBay over the years. A couple turned out to
> be decent brewing vessels and wound up as gifts, Others dripped or had
> other functional problems and wound up in the trash. None were great
> bargains, though all were cheap. The idea of picking up a decent
> 40-year-old pot for $60 is very appealing, but I guess I'll stick with
> vendors like Brian Wright, who I know through experience or reputation.
> Thanks to all who weighed in!
> BW

Oftentimes scammers succeed because the price is too good to be true.
If it's too good to be true, it often is. And I think a $60 40 years
old pot falls into that category.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

more than less likely this is a scam i love the feedback on this guy

I have bought 9 pots from Anling and found them to be excellent,
although I couldn't verify their authenticity. He will sell you a
certificate of authentification if you ask for it. At least three seem
to be of pure zhuni clay, and a few other a quality clay mix. They
were all very grimy but treatment with denture cleaner, toothbrush and
q-tips cured them all. One is my best sheng puer pot, another brews
delicious da hong pao, and a third is ok, really high-pitched ring with
handmade indicators but I haven't figured out what tea works best in
it. It has a flat shape. A fourth, thicker-walled is the one I use
for high-mountain taiwanese oolongs and it really brings out their
aroma. I have gifted 2 of the pots, and three are too big for daily
use so they are sitting around my house.

What you can't tell from the pictures, but what Anling will answer to
you if you ask, is how thick the walls are of the pot.

I had a great experience with him. But get ready to spend time
cleaning.

Bill Wolfe wrote:
> Does anyone have experience buying teapots from the ebay store
> http://stores.ebay.com/5000friend ?
> They have a large selection of yixing listed as pre-1960 at what look
> like reasonable prices, even allowing for ~$30 shipping. They also
> seem to have decent feedback and several repeat customers. Everything
> I read about buying Yixing--old or new--screams caveat emptor, but some
> of those pots look pretty neat to me.

wrote:
> I have bought 9 pots from Anling and found them to be excellent,
> although I couldn't verify their authenticity. He will sell you a
> certificate of authentification if you ask for it. At least three seem
> to be of pure zhuni clay, and a few other a quality clay mix. They
> were all very grimy but treatment with denture cleaner, toothbrush and
> q-tips cured them all. One is my best sheng puer pot, another brews
> delicious da hong pao, and a third is ok, really high-pitched ring with
> handmade indicators but I haven't figured out what tea works best in
> it. It has a flat shape. A fourth, thicker-walled is the one I use
> for high-mountain taiwanese oolongs and it really brings out their
> aroma. I have gifted 2 of the pots, and three are too big for daily
> use so they are sitting around my house.
>
> What you can't tell from the pictures, but what Anling will answer to
> you if you ask, is how thick the walls are of the pot.
>
> I had a great experience with him. But get ready to spend time
> cleaning.
>
The question is whether or not the grime is real grime from 40 years of
use, or is it more like the slightly black wax they use to make the pot
look old?

Does the pot feel "waxy" when you pick it up when it first arrives?

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

I will try and order one teapot - the I will let you know, what do I
think.

I have about 10 yixing teapots, artisan and better quality, bought
directly in china by a vendor I believe, so I think, I can see the
quality of the pot.

I went ahead and took the plunge on two old "zhuni" pots that will run
a bit less than $60 each with combined shipping. I'll report the
results. I've seen references to using denture cleaner and dilute
chlorine bleach for sanitizing and "resetting" old Yixing teapots.
Awhile back, there was discussion in this group of using white vinegar
for the purpose, with at least one contributor reported a residual
vinegar smell. Anyone have experience with more than one of these
methods?
BW
wrote:
> I have bought 9 pots from Anling and found them to be excellent,
> although I couldn't verify their authenticity. He will sell you a
> certificate of authentification if you ask for it. At least three seem
> to be of pure zhuni clay, and a few other a quality clay mix. They
> were all very grimy but treatment with denture cleaner, toothbrush and
> q-tips cured them all. One is my best sheng puer pot, another brews
> delicious da hong pao, and a third is ok, really high-pitched ring with
> handmade indicators but I haven't figured out what tea works best in
> it. It has a flat shape. A fourth, thicker-walled is the one I use
> for high-mountain taiwanese oolongs and it really brings out their
> aroma. I have gifted 2 of the pots, and three are too big for daily
> use so they are sitting around my house.
>
> What you can't tell from the pictures, but what Anling will answer to
> you if you ask, is how thick the walls are of the pot.
>
> I had a great experience with him. But get ready to spend time
> cleaning.
>
> Bill Wolfe wrote:
> > Does anyone have experience buying teapots from the ebay store
> > http://stores.ebay.com/5000friend ?
> > They have a large selection of yixing listed as pre-1960 at what look
> > like reasonable prices, even allowing for ~$30 shipping. They also
> > seem to have decent feedback and several repeat customers. Everything
> > I read about buying Yixing--old or new--screams caveat emptor, but some
> > of those pots look pretty neat to me.

My method for cleaning very dirty yixing pots is to scrub with baking
soda and a soft cloth to remove the grime and boil like crazy in
distilled water (better solvent action but not critical) through about
3 changes of water. This has worked on a number or old/forgotten pots
I've had to clean.

The denture cleaner sounds interesting as long as it's not the minty
kind :-)

Cameron

Bill Wolfe wrote:
> I went ahead and took the plunge on two old "zhuni" pots that will run
> a bit less than $60 each with combined shipping. I'll report the
> results. I've seen references to using denture cleaner and dilute
> chlorine bleach for sanitizing and "resetting" old Yixing teapots.
> Awhile back, there was discussion in this group of using white vinegar
> for the purpose, with at least one contributor reported a residual
> vinegar smell. Anyone have experience with more than one of these
> methods?
> BW
> wrote:
> > I have bought 9 pots from Anling and found them to be excellent,
> > although I couldn't verify their authenticity. He will sell you a
> > certificate of authentification if you ask for it. At least three seem
> > to be of pure zhuni clay, and a few other a quality clay mix. They
> > were all very grimy but treatment with denture cleaner, toothbrush and
> > q-tips cured them all. One is my best sheng puer pot, another brews
> > delicious da hong pao, and a third is ok, really high-pitched ring with
> > handmade indicators but I haven't figured out what tea works best in
> > it. It has a flat shape. A fourth, thicker-walled is the one I use
> > for high-mountain taiwanese oolongs and it really brings out their
> > aroma. I have gifted 2 of the pots, and three are too big for daily
> > use so they are sitting around my house.
> >
> > What you can't tell from the pictures, but what Anling will answer to
> > you if you ask, is how thick the walls are of the pot.
> >
> > I had a great experience with him. But get ready to spend time
> > cleaning.
> >
> > Bill Wolfe wrote:
> > > Does anyone have experience buying teapots from the ebay store
> > > http://stores.ebay.com/5000friend ?
> > > They have a large selection of yixing listed as pre-1960 at what look
> > > like reasonable prices, even allowing for ~$30 shipping. They also
> > > seem to have decent feedback and several repeat customers. Everything
> > > I read about buying Yixing--old or new--screams caveat emptor, but some
> > > of those pots look pretty neat to me.

The pots were not waxy, they were filthy dirty! The kind of grime that
seems burnt on and drip-shaped. Some were downright scary! Which to my
mind explained why they were so cheap. But lo and behold this denture
product (non minty) called Sparkle that I bought on the internet did
the trick. You have to use boiling water and put cleaner inside and
outside the pot overnight. Then do a rinse soak in hot water for 8
hours. I didn't, which meant repeated brushings, and on some pots I
even had to introduce whitening toothpaste to really get the grime out.
Baking soda would have been much better! But they all got clean, I
shined a flashlight inside and they were restored. I think that wax
wouldn't have responded to denture cleaner the way that this stuff did.
It also didn't leave any residue on my brush bristles, which is
another reason I don't think it's wax.

Once I cleaned the pots they were really nice. Not all of them were
equally good quality but I felt pleased that at least 3 were winners
for my own personal daily use, so at less than $350 for 3 or more good
pots (counting the other six as possible gifts for others) I felt
alright. I also bought a zhuni from Stephane Erler and got similar
results from my teapots. And lastly, none were as bad as the worst
yixing pots that I've bought from vendors.

MarshalN wrote:
> wrote:
> > I have bought 9 pots from Anling and found them to be excellent,
> > although I couldn't verify their authenticity. He will sell you a
> > certificate of authentification if you ask for it. At least three seem
> > to be of pure zhuni clay, and a few other a quality clay mix. They
> > were all very grimy but treatment with denture cleaner, toothbrush and
> > q-tips cured them all. One is my best sheng puer pot, another brews
> > delicious da hong pao, and a third is ok, really high-pitched ring with
> > handmade indicators but I haven't figured out what tea works best in
> > it. It has a flat shape. A fourth, thicker-walled is the one I use
> > for high-mountain taiwanese oolongs and it really brings out their
> > aroma. I have gifted 2 of the pots, and three are too big for daily
> > use so they are sitting around my house.
> >
> > What you can't tell from the pictures, but what Anling will answer to
> > you if you ask, is how thick the walls are of the pot.
> >
> > I had a great experience with him. But get ready to spend time
> > cleaning.
> >
> The question is whether or not the grime is real grime from 40 years of
> use, or is it more like the slightly black wax they use to make the pot
> look old?
>
> Does the pot feel "waxy" when you pick it up when it first arrives?
>
> MarshalN
> http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

Great stuff, thanks for sharing your results.

For the other posters that are taking the plunge with this vendor, I
very much look forward to hearing of your experience afterwards; please
do update us with your findings.


Toodlepip,

Hobbes

Bill Wolfe wrote:
> I went ahead and took the plunge on two old "zhuni" pots that will run
> a bit less than $60 each with combined shipping. I'll report the
> results. I've seen references to using denture cleaner and dilute
> chlorine bleach for sanitizing and "resetting" old Yixing teapots.
> Awhile back, there was discussion in this group of using white vinegar
> for the purpose, with at least one contributor reported a residual
> vinegar smell. Anyone have experience with more than one of these
> methods?
> BW

I think i'd avoid the vinegar. Since I don't buy old pots that smell
funny, I have no real experience cleaning old dirty pots, but I'd think
vinegar is not what you want to use.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

In article . com>,
Alex > wrote:
>
>Is there a way to report such things on eBay without already having
>been ripped off?

In the case of Yixing pots, I think that since the vast majority of
ones sold today are fake, that a great deal of responsibility for
verifying anything you buy should just be considered normal.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Me too--please let me know how you like your teapots!

Danica

HobbesOxon wrote:
> Great stuff, thanks for sharing your results.
>
> For the other posters that are taking the plunge with this vendor, I
> very much look forward to hearing of your experience afterwards; please
> do update us with your findings.
>
>
> Toodlepip,
>
> Hobbes

Danica wrote:
> Me too--please let me know how you like your teapots!
>
> Danica
>
Well, my two pots arrived pretty quickly and in great shape. Both are
clearly the pots shown in the auction photos, and both seem to have
some real age, but I'm brought up pretty sharply against my utter
ignorance of Chinese script and Yixing marks and against my profound
lack of experience in really evaluating Yixing clays. All I can go by
at this stage is how the pots look, feel, smell, and function.

The first pot
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250037481133
holds 150 ml and is made of red clay with an "orange peel" outer
texture. It has simple rounded lines and a single-hole spout (no
built-in strainer). The finish and workmanship seem comparable to a
couple of Yixing Factory No. 1 pots from the 1990s bought for around
the same price from Hou De. An hour's soak in hot filtered water
followed by a good dose of peroxide bleach and repeated rinsing with
hot filtered water removed all the old tea stains and any noticeable
odor but left a clean "oily" patina. The pot has good vacuum--filled
2/3 with water and the spout stopped, the lid stays on when the pot is
inverted--and pours smoothly without dribbling. Brewings of various
lightly fermented Oolongs--including 2006 Snow Pear from Silk Road and
the Premium Spring 2006 Alishan Jinxuan from Shan Shui--yielded
multiple clean, fragrant infusions. Verdict: certainly a decent
working pot for the money. At some point I'll try to find someone who
really knows their pots to weigh in, but I'm quite pleased and look
forward to many infusions!

Teapot # 2
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250043812111
is purportedly older--pre-1908 (!)--and made of "rough zhuni clay."
Rough is the operable word here. The clay is not only rougher than pot
#1 but also feels denser and harder. Again, it would be great to know
what I'm holding and looking at! It has a single-hole spout and good
vacuum, and it pours well. The finish and workmanship seem generally
rougher than pot #1 and the two pots from Hou De. That's not
necessarily a bad thing; the pot does have a fair bit of rustic
character. This pot was more stained than the first one, and a strong
dose of peroxide bleach created quite a fizz as the stains were lifted
and disolved. After rinsing the pot retained a noticeable earthy
odor--not really disagreeable but persistent in the face of successive
doses of chlorine bleach, baking soda, and prolonged simmering in clean
water. After all that, I had no concern about any microbial life, so I
decided to brew some puerh in it. I started with the 1990 raw Menghai
district Fang Cha Zhuan from Stephane Erler (Teamasters). Tasted side
by side with the same tea brewed in a gaiwan, the teapot produced
several infusions that felt a tasted rounder and better balanced. The
nose from the teapot brew seemed a little spicier than from the gaiwan.
The same test with the 1992 Meng Hai Loose Cooked puerh from Jing
produced similar results. Verdict: I like the rustic character of this
pot, but the jury's still out as to whether it becomes a daily brewing
vessel. I am contacting a respected U.S. dealer to see if he'll look
at it and give an opinion on the age and clay (and smell!).

Overall opinion: I was well enough pleased with my experience with
Anling that I bought four more of his teapots! His inventory contains
many pots that seem to have better workmanship individuality, and
character than those from standard mass-produced commercial sources.
Of course, he knows teapots and the market far better than most
prospective customers, so don't expect to walk away with some rare
treasure for a song!
BW

Hi Bill,

Thanks for this--I should really write down my experiments with my
teapots, but I don't have a digital camera to show you the pot I am
talking about. I have a 175 ml zhuni teapot from Anling that brews
high mountain oolongs quite well, very round body and round top, rough
texture, nice teapot. And I have a 125 ml modified drum shape zhuni
that somehow makes all sheng puer taste better. It's a really great
brew pot, has become a daily pot. The third that I like is a 200 ml
that makes great wuyi teas but I don't use it often because I can't
drink that much tea.

I did get two from Anling that were poorly constructed, i.e. when I
closed the hole in the lid the tea kep pouring. Somewhat my fault for
not choosing well-designed teapots, instead going for the 'clever'
look. Question for you (all you teapot users)--do you get good use
from those types of teapots, or do you relegate them to the display
case?

By the way I like your taste in teapots. You just bought two from
Silkroadtrade that I had my eye on for the last six months! Let me
know how you like that round little Lu Ya Jun. And I love the design
of the square zini.

Best,

Danica

Bill Wolfe wrote:
> Danica wrote:
> > Me too--please let me know how you like your teapots!
> >
> > Danica
> >
> Well, my two pots arrived pretty quickly and in great shape. Both are
> clearly the pots shown in the auction photos, and both seem to have
> some real age, but I'm brought up pretty sharply against my utter
> ignorance of Chinese script and Yixing marks and against my profound
> lack of experience in really evaluating Yixing clays. All I can go by
> at this stage is how the pots look, feel, smell, and function.
>
> The first pot
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250037481133
> holds 150 ml and is made of red clay with an "orange peel" outer
> texture. It has simple rounded lines and a single-hole spout (no
> built-in strainer). The finish and workmanship seem comparable to a
> couple of Yixing Factory No. 1 pots from the 1990s bought for around
> the same price from Hou De. An hour's soak in hot filtered water
> followed by a good dose of peroxide bleach and repeated rinsing with
> hot filtered water removed all the old tea stains and any noticeable
> odor but left a clean "oily" patina. The pot has good vacuum--filled
> 2/3 with water and the spout stopped, the lid stays on when the pot is
> inverted--and pours smoothly without dribbling. Brewings of various
> lightly fermented Oolongs--including 2006 Snow Pear from Silk Road and
> the Premium Spring 2006 Alishan Jinxuan from Shan Shui--yielded
> multiple clean, fragrant infusions. Verdict: certainly a decent
> working pot for the money. At some point I'll try to find someone who
> really knows their pots to weigh in, but I'm quite pleased and look
> forward to many infusions!
>
> Teapot # 2
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250043812111
> is purportedly older--pre-1908 (!)--and made of "rough zhuni clay."
> Rough is the operable word here. The clay is not only rougher than pot
> #1 but also feels denser and harder. Again, it would be great to know
> what I'm holding and looking at! It has a single-hole spout and good
> vacuum, and it pours well. The finish and workmanship seem generally
> rougher than pot #1 and the two pots from Hou De. That's not
> necessarily a bad thing; the pot does have a fair bit of rustic
> character. This pot was more stained than the first one, and a strong
> dose of peroxide bleach created quite a fizz as the stains were lifted
> and disolved. After rinsing the pot retained a noticeable earthy
> odor--not really disagreeable but persistent in the face of successive
> doses of chlorine bleach, baking soda, and prolonged simmering in clean
> water. After all that, I had no concern about any microbial life, so I
> decided to brew some puerh in it. I started with the 1990 raw Menghai
> district Fang Cha Zhuan from Stephane Erler (Teamasters). Tasted side
> by side with the same tea brewed in a gaiwan, the teapot produced
> several infusions that felt a tasted rounder and better balanced. The
> nose from the teapot brew seemed a little spicier than from the gaiwan.
> The same test with the 1992 Meng Hai Loose Cooked puerh from Jing
> produced similar results. Verdict: I like the rustic character of this
> pot, but the jury's still out as to whether it becomes a daily brewing
> vessel. I am contacting a respected U.S. dealer to see if he'll look
> at it and give an opinion on the age and clay (and smell!).
>
> Overall opinion: I was well enough pleased with my experience with
> Anling that I bought four more of his teapots! His inventory contains
> many pots that seem to have better workmanship individuality, and
> character than those from standard mass-produced commercial sources.
> Of course, he knows teapots and the market far better than most
> prospective customers, so don't expect to walk away with some rare
> treasure for a song!
> BW

One more thing I forgot to mention, try the second pot with Taiwanese
high mountain oolongs; it's the right dimension and weight to get good
heat to extract flavor, plus it looks like it has a fast pour. If you
take a look at Stephane's teapot for sale for high mountain oolongs, it
has quite a few similarities. And if you don't like it, let me know I
may be interested...

D

ps I really like the 1990 menghai district puer, I think it's a great
value for the money (you have good taste in teas, too...)

Bill Wolfe wrote:
> Danica wrote:
> > Me too--please let me know how you like your teapots!
> >
> > Danica
> >
> Well, my two pots arrived pretty quickly and in great shape. Both are
> clearly the pots shown in the auction photos, and both seem to have
> some real age, but I'm brought up pretty sharply against my utter
> ignorance of Chinese script and Yixing marks and against my profound
> lack of experience in really evaluating Yixing clays. All I can go by
> at this stage is how the pots look, feel, smell, and function.
>
> The first pot
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250037481133
> holds 150 ml and is made of red clay with an "orange peel" outer
> texture. It has simple rounded lines and a single-hole spout (no
> built-in strainer). The finish and workmanship seem comparable to a
> couple of Yixing Factory No. 1 pots from the 1990s bought for around
> the same price from Hou De. An hour's soak in hot filtered water
> followed by a good dose of peroxide bleach and repeated rinsing with
> hot filtered water removed all the old tea stains and any noticeable
> odor but left a clean "oily" patina. The pot has good vacuum--filled
> 2/3 with water and the spout stopped, the lid stays on when the pot is
> inverted--and pours smoothly without dribbling. Brewings of various
> lightly fermented Oolongs--including 2006 Snow Pear from Silk Road and
> the Premium Spring 2006 Alishan Jinxuan from Shan Shui--yielded
> multiple clean, fragrant infusions. Verdict: certainly a decent
> working pot for the money. At some point I'll try to find someone who
> really knows their pots to weigh in, but I'm quite pleased and look
> forward to many infusions!
>
> Teapot # 2
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250043812111
> is purportedly older--pre-1908 (!)--and made of "rough zhuni clay."
> Rough is the operable word here. The clay is not only rougher than pot
> #1 but also feels denser and harder. Again, it would be great to know
> what I'm holding and looking at! It has a single-hole spout and good
> vacuum, and it pours well. The finish and workmanship seem generally
> rougher than pot #1 and the two pots from Hou De. That's not
> necessarily a bad thing; the pot does have a fair bit of rustic
> character. This pot was more stained than the first one, and a strong
> dose of peroxide bleach created quite a fizz as the stains were lifted
> and disolved. After rinsing the pot retained a noticeable earthy
> odor--not really disagreeable but persistent in the face of successive
> doses of chlorine bleach, baking soda, and prolonged simmering in clean
> water. After all that, I had no concern about any microbial life, so I
> decided to brew some puerh in it. I started with the 1990 raw Menghai
> district Fang Cha Zhuan from Stephane Erler (Teamasters). Tasted side
> by side with the same tea brewed in a gaiwan, the teapot produced
> several infusions that felt a tasted rounder and better balanced. The
> nose from the teapot brew seemed a little spicier than from the gaiwan.
> The same test with the 1992 Meng Hai Loose Cooked puerh from Jing
> produced similar results. Verdict: I like the rustic character of this
> pot, but the jury's still out as to whether it becomes a daily brewing
> vessel. I am contacting a respected U.S. dealer to see if he'll look
> at it and give an opinion on the age and clay (and smell!).
>
> Overall opinion: I was well enough pleased with my experience with
> Anling that I bought four more of his teapots! His inventory contains
> many pots that seem to have better workmanship individuality, and
> character than those from standard mass-produced commercial sources.
> Of course, he knows teapots and the market far better than most
> prospective customers, so don't expect to walk away with some rare
> treasure for a song!
> BW

Bill,

Thanks for sharing. Those are classic looking teapots, and from the
pictures they are the types that I would get myself. Glad to hear it
turns out well! I'll be looking into their selections. Is Anling the
name of the proprietor?

Danica,

200ml pot for a Wuyi...that's a bit too big for me as well. Not
because 200ml of tea is too much for me to drink, but because I put in
about 1/2 to 3/4 full of Wuyi leaves into the teapot. That means I
have to use a lot of leaves with a 200ml pot.



Danica wrote:
> One more thing I forgot to mention, try the second pot with Taiwanese
> high mountain oolongs; it's the right dimension and weight to get good
> heat to extract flavor, plus it looks like it has a fast pour. If you
> take a look at Stephane's teapot for sale for high mountain oolongs, it
> has quite a few similarities. And if you don't like it, let me know I
> may be interested...
>
> D
>
> ps I really like the 1990 menghai district puer, I think it's a great
> value for the money (you have good taste in teas, too...)
>
> Bill Wolfe wrote:
> > Danica wrote:
> > > Me too--please let me know how you like your teapots!
> > >
> > > Danica
> > >
> > Well, my two pots arrived pretty quickly and in great shape. Both are
> > clearly the pots shown in the auction photos, and both seem to have
> > some real age, but I'm brought up pretty sharply against my utter
> > ignorance of Chinese script and Yixing marks and against my profound
> > lack of experience in really evaluating Yixing clays. All I can go by
> > at this stage is how the pots look, feel, smell, and function.
> >
> > The first pot
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250037481133
> > holds 150 ml and is made of red clay with an "orange peel" outer
> > texture. It has simple rounded lines and a single-hole spout (no
> > built-in strainer). The finish and workmanship seem comparable to a
> > couple of Yixing Factory No. 1 pots from the 1990s bought for around
> > the same price from Hou De. An hour's soak in hot filtered water
> > followed by a good dose of peroxide bleach and repeated rinsing with
> > hot filtered water removed all the old tea stains and any noticeable
> > odor but left a clean "oily" patina. The pot has good vacuum--filled
> > 2/3 with water and the spout stopped, the lid stays on when the pot is
> > inverted--and pours smoothly without dribbling. Brewings of various
> > lightly fermented Oolongs--including 2006 Snow Pear from Silk Road and
> > the Premium Spring 2006 Alishan Jinxuan from Shan Shui--yielded
> > multiple clean, fragrant infusions. Verdict: certainly a decent
> > working pot for the money. At some point I'll try to find someone who
> > really knows their pots to weigh in, but I'm quite pleased and look
> > forward to many infusions!
> >
> > Teapot # 2
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250043812111
> > is purportedly older--pre-1908 (!)--and made of "rough zhuni clay."
> > Rough is the operable word here. The clay is not only rougher than pot
> > #1 but also feels denser and harder. Again, it would be great to know
> > what I'm holding and looking at! It has a single-hole spout and good
> > vacuum, and it pours well. The finish and workmanship seem generally
> > rougher than pot #1 and the two pots from Hou De. That's not
> > necessarily a bad thing; the pot does have a fair bit of rustic
> > character. This pot was more stained than the first one, and a strong
> > dose of peroxide bleach created quite a fizz as the stains were lifted
> > and disolved. After rinsing the pot retained a noticeable earthy
> > odor--not really disagreeable but persistent in the face of successive
> > doses of chlorine bleach, baking soda, and prolonged simmering in clean
> > water. After all that, I had no concern about any microbial life, so I
> > decided to brew some puerh in it. I started with the 1990 raw Menghai
> > district Fang Cha Zhuan from Stephane Erler (Teamasters). Tasted side
> > by side with the same tea brewed in a gaiwan, the teapot produced
> > several infusions that felt a tasted rounder and better balanced. The
> > nose from the teapot brew seemed a little spicier than from the gaiwan.
> > The same test with the 1992 Meng Hai Loose Cooked puerh from Jing
> > produced similar results. Verdict: I like the rustic character of this
> > pot, but the jury's still out as to whether it becomes a daily brewing
> > vessel. I am contacting a respected U.S. dealer to see if he'll look
> > at it and give an opinion on the age and clay (and smell!).
> >
> > Overall opinion: I was well enough pleased with my experience with
> > Anling that I bought four more of his teapots! His inventory contains
> > many pots that seem to have better workmanship individuality, and
> > character than those from standard mass-produced commercial sources.
> > Of course, he knows teapots and the market far better than most
> > prospective customers, so don't expect to walk away with some rare
> > treasure for a song!
> > BW

Hi Phyll,
Yes Anling is his name. Re the Wuyi teas I would think 200ml is too
big as well but I don't drink it as strong in such a big pot. It's not
big and round it's kind of pear shaped and I fill the round part
1/4-1/3 full and let it brew for at least a minute each time, then
longer. The pot gives the tea round oolong flavors with a hint of
roasting. It's the Seven Cups Imperial Rou Gui that I am using, which
has very large leaves and a lot of flavor, so perhaps I don't need as
much. But I also have a 4 oz zini pot that I sometimes use, which I
fill 1/2 full, and it gives a much more roasted and concentrated
flavor. Different experience.
Danica


> Danica,
>
> 200ml pot for a Wuyi...that's a bit too big for me as well. Not
> because 200ml of tea is too much for me to drink, but because I put in
> about 1/2 to 3/4 full of Wuyi leaves into the teapot. That means I
> have to use a lot of leaves with a 200ml pot.
>
>

kyleshen > wrote:
>All the "vintage" Yixings from 5000friend are modern fakes. I have been
>an active Yixing collector for 20 years.

Are they fakes (made of earthenware) or just modern Yixing pots?

I am pretty sure the the vast majority of "vintage" Yixing pots sold are
in fact modern. That's fine as long as you don't expect you're getting
something old and rare and are buying it as a thing to drink tea from.

However, if it's a fake that isn't made from zishou (and there are a lot
of those out there), it won't be the same for drinking tea from.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

(Scott Dorsey) writes:

>kyleshen > wrote:
>>All the "vintage" Yixings from 5000friend are modern fakes. I have been
>>an active Yixing collector for 20 years.
>
>Are they fakes (made of earthenware) or just modern Yixing pots?
>
>I am pretty sure the the vast majority of "vintage" Yixing pots sold are
>in fact modern. That's fine as long as you don't expect you're getting
>something old and rare and are buying it as a thing to drink tea from.
>
>However, if it's a fake that isn't made from zishou (and there are a lot
>of those out there), it won't be the same for drinking tea from.

Uh, I think you mean *zisha*.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

My wifes sister-in-law brother who lives in Taiwan sent me some
nitrogen packed tea with the label Bao-Chung. Talk about mixing
PinYin and Wade-Giles. The biggest craze is aged Bao-Zhong. He sent
some from 1968 which was found stored in a shed which a local farmer
forgot. This is happening all over Taiwan. My first impression it is
very woodsy. The leaves are hard and black. There is a slight
fermentation taste. Leaves this old especially in a pile may have
composted. If you suck on the leaves there is a hay taste. There is
no charcoal or burnt taste which would indicate tampering. The leaves
are much bigger than any BaoZhong of late. In the second infusion
there is a pronounced vegetal taste which isnt present in newer
BaoZhong. The taste is as much psychological as physical. I can
remember 1968 when I was in college. You couldnt forget it. If this
tea is as old as claimed then some of the taste I believe is preserved
and shows the difference in what you taste today.

Jim

On Sep 24, 3:29 pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> (Scott Dorsey) writes:
> >kyleshen > wrote:
> >>All the "vintage" Yixings from 5000friend are modern fakes. I have been
> >>an active Yixing collector for 20 years.
>
> >Are they fakes (made of earthenware) or just modern Yixing pots?
>
> >I am pretty sure the the vast majority of "vintage" Yixing pots sold are
> >in fact modern. That's fine as long as you don't expect you're getting
> >something old and rare and are buying it as a thing to drink tea from.
>
> >However, if it's a fake that isn't made from zishou (and there are a lot
> >of those out there), it won't be the same for drinking tea from.
>
> Uh, I think you mean *zisha*.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /