I'm curious about people's experience with less-than-perfect teapots.
The rule is balance of spout-mouth-handle and perfect occlusion of the
vent/ spout. If you block the vent-hole and the spout keeps pouring,
what kind of an effect does this have on the tea? What about an
imbalanced spout-mouth-handle? If you've got one of these imperfect
teapots, what do you do with it--do you keep it? Get rid of it? I'd
love to know other people's thoughts/ experiences.

Danica wrote:
> I'm curious about people's experience with less-than-perfect teapots.
> The rule is balance of spout-mouth-handle and perfect occlusion of the
> vent/ spout. If you block the vent-hole and the spout keeps pouring,
> what kind of an effect does this have on the tea? What about an
> imbalanced spout-mouth-handle? If you've got one of these imperfect
> teapots, what do you do with it--do you keep it? Get rid of it? I'd
> love to know other people's thoughts/ experiences.

Well.... I tend not to buy such things in the first place. I suppose
this is not possible if you mail order pots (which is why I don't do
it). I think the less-than-perfect-fit is not a big problem. A bigger
problem is if it drips or pours poorly, or if the spout is easily and
often blocked, or some such.

If you have one of these.... are there teas that you don't normally
drink but wouldn't mind using a pot for that once-in-a-while brew?
Or.... give it away as gifts to people who can't care less (and will
most likely end up as a wall ornament)?

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

> Well.... I tend not to buy such things in the first place. I suppose
> this is not possible if you mail order pots (which is why I don't do
> it).

It's really hard to find a good yixing pot in Los Angeles, outside of
Chinatown, but even there they don't have the really good stuff half
the time. Mostly cheap commercial-made pots, etc. So I am relegated
to vendors I trust on the Internet. I made a lot of mistakes before I
found good people.

I think the less-than-perfect-fit is not a big problem. A bigger
> problem is if it drips or pours poorly, or if the spout is easily and
> often blocked, or some such.

My first biggest pot problem is ones where you block the vent and the
spout continues to pour. I guess that means it's not air-tight. Then
drips, then bad clay. I don't buy bad clay anymore but I recently
bought a studio copy of a Jiang Rong peach and it pours continually
even when I block the vent. And the pot wasn't cheap!

> If you have one of these.... are there teas that you don't normally
> drink but wouldn't mind using a pot for that once-in-a-while brew?
> Or.... give it away as gifts to people who can't care less (and will
> most likely end up as a wall ornament)?

Funny you say that, the other bad-vent pot is a lovely dense zisha clay
that makes really good puer tea. It holds the aromas well. The third
is made of a zhuni type clay (it has a high pitched ring) and makes
good oolongs and green tea.

But I wonder if they had better air-tight quality if the tea would be
better? Any thoughts?


> MarshalN
> http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

> It's really hard to find a good yixing pot in Los Angeles, outside of
> Chinatown, but even there they don't have the really good stuff half
> the time.

Danica, you seem to imply that there are good Yixing pots to be found
in Los Angeles in the Chinatown. If so, please whisper the places to
me. Thanks.

Phyll


Danica wrote:
> > Well.... I tend not to buy such things in the first place. I suppose
> > this is not possible if you mail order pots (which is why I don't do
> > it).
>
> It's really hard to find a good yixing pot in Los Angeles, outside of
> Chinatown, but even there they don't have the really good stuff half
> the time. Mostly cheap commercial-made pots, etc. So I am relegated
> to vendors I trust on the Internet. I made a lot of mistakes before I
> found good people.
>
> I think the less-than-perfect-fit is not a big problem. A bigger
> > problem is if it drips or pours poorly, or if the spout is easily and
> > often blocked, or some such.
>
> My first biggest pot problem is ones where you block the vent and the
> spout continues to pour. I guess that means it's not air-tight. Then
> drips, then bad clay. I don't buy bad clay anymore but I recently
> bought a studio copy of a Jiang Rong peach and it pours continually
> even when I block the vent. And the pot wasn't cheap!
>
> > If you have one of these.... are there teas that you don't normally
> > drink but wouldn't mind using a pot for that once-in-a-while brew?
> > Or.... give it away as gifts to people who can't care less (and will
> > most likely end up as a wall ornament)?
>
> Funny you say that, the other bad-vent pot is a lovely dense zisha clay
> that makes really good puer tea. It holds the aromas well. The third
> is made of a zhuni type clay (it has a high pitched ring) and makes
> good oolongs and green tea.
>
> But I wonder if they had better air-tight quality if the tea would be
> better? Any thoughts?
>
>
> > MarshalN
> > http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

Blocking the venting hole may be the most popular method of testing a
zisha teapot, however, the airtightness of a teapot may not be the most
important factor in selecting our teapot.

In the art of preparing Chinese tea, we do not purposefully block the
flow of water by covering the air vent. The blocking of the vent and
the halt of the flow would create a sudden and disruptive impact to the
whole process. The entire process of preparing tea should be smooth
and display a feeling of serenity. Timing should not be controlled
this way.

Then why do we use this test? It tries to measure the level of
craftsmanship--particularily the tightness and tolerance of the teapot.
However, in todays production environment where machinery can be used
to aid in manufacture of teapots, the tolerances can easily be very
high, but without much craftsmanship at all. The most important impact
is that the clay used in wholly machine-manufactured teapots are
inferior.

So what should we look for in a teapot? Well, as long as our tea does
not pour out from under the lid before it even comes out of the spout,
we should consider a few other things.

As many people have mentioned, ergonomics are definitely at the top of
the list. Balance in an instrument creates comfort and useability.
Front, or spout heavy teapots cause strain on the wrist. Other issues
of alignment and basic design help with ergonomics and are generally
common sense, so I won't drag on here.

The most important factor is the quality of the clay. The pureness of
the zisha clay and the proper firing of the clay at adequate
temperatures is what directly affects the flavor of your infusion. The
airtightness and ergonomics can affect your brewing technique, and
subsequently affect your tea. The clay's direct contact with tea,
directly affects the outcome of your brew.

How do you look for good clay? That's another article. Let me know if
you want to read more.

Bill
www.chinaflairtea.com

11/
22/06

> Blocking the venting hole may be the most popular method of testing a
> zisha teapot, however, the airtightness of a teapot may not be the most
> important factor in selecting our teapot.
>
> In the art of preparing Chinese tea, we do not purposefully block the
> flow of water by covering the air vent. The blocking of the vent and
> the halt of the flow would create a sudden and disruptive impact to the
> whole process. The entire process of preparing tea should be smooth
> and display a feeling of serenity. Timing should not be controlled
> this way.
>
> Then why do we use this test? It tries to measure the level of
> craftsmanship--particularily the tightness and tolerance of the teapot.
> However, in todays production environment where machinery can be used
> to aid in manufacture of teapots, the tolerances can easily be very
> high, but without much craftsmanship at all. The most important impact
> is that the clay used in wholly machine-manufactured teapots are
> inferior.
>
> So what should we look for in a teapot? Well, as long as our tea does
> not pour out from under the lid before it even comes out of the spout,
> we should consider a few other things.
>
> As many people have mentioned, ergonomics are definitely at the top of
> the list. Balance in an instrument creates comfort and useability.
> Front, or spout heavy teapots cause strain on the wrist. Other issues
> of alignment and basic design help with ergonomics and are generally
> common sense, so I won't drag on here.
>
> The most important factor is the quality of the clay. The pureness of
> the zisha clay and the proper firing of the clay at adequate
> temperatures is what directly affects the flavor of your infusion. The
> airtightness and ergonomics can affect your brewing technique, and
> subsequently affect your tea. The clay's direct contact with tea,
> directly affects the outcome of your brew.
>
> How do you look for good clay? That's another article. Let me know if
> you want to read more.
>
> Bill
> www.chinaflairtea.com

Hi Bill,

Based on your cogent, intelligent, and thoughtful
prose above, I look forward to more about clay.
Be as specific as you feel you can be without
causing our eyes to lose focus. Thanks.

Michael

> Hi Bill,
>
> Based on your cogent, intelligent, and thoughtful
> prose above, I look forward to more about clay.
> Be as specific as you feel you can be without
> causing our eyes to lose focus. Thanks.
>
> Michael

Thanks for your encouragement Michael. Here we go...

How To Select Quality Zisha Teapots continued:

After a teapot meets ergonomic needs, and our aesthetic standards, the
most important factor is the quality of the clay.

I will assume readers know what is zisha (purple clay). Basic
information on zisha teapots can be read at this article: "Introduction
to Zisha Teapots" at http://www.chinaflairtea.com/introteapots.html.

The best teapots are made from pure zisha clays, that are highly
porous, and fired at approximate temperatures of 1,200°C.

How do we look for such teapots?
Many people like to test the tone/ring that is made from tapping the
teapot. A popular method is to use the lid to gently tap the side of
the teapot. (I will mention more about tapping a teapot later). The
conventional idea is that the high-pitched rings are produced from
clays that are dense. Since high porosity is desired in zisha clay, we
may frown on high-pitched rings, which mimic the sound of striking hard
metal.

The most common types of zisha clay that produce these sounds are
vibrant red. These clays have very high iron content that produce red
colored teapots which are popular in the Chinese market. When extra
iron is added to the clay, the teapot will not only become very red, it
will also become very dense and produce the metallic ringing.

On the other hand, a low dull pitch does not indicate highly porous
clay. If the sound is a low, dull thud, it often indicates a teapot
that was made at temperatures too low. When teapots are fired at low
temperatures, they will emit the odor and taste of clay. Just rinsing
the teapot with boiling water will release the pungent odor of dirt.
Using such teapots to make tea will produce bitter, clay-tasting brews
with scattered and course textures.

There are no styles of tea that can benefit or endure the effects of
low temperature clays. Ugly black spots and stains will also develop
throughout the teapot after some use. The more you try to nurture and
develop the teapot's patina, the worse it gets.

Clays suffering from insufficient temperatures are worse than dense
clays. The high-pitched teapots mentioned earlier may not be ideal,
but they do maximize aroma. For example, Taiwanese teapots, which are
not made of zisha clay, are not porous. They are very dense and make
very high-pitched rings. There is absolutely no problem using these
teapots to make high mountain Taiwanese oolongs to enjoy their light,
fresh character. High-pitched and dense zisha teapots are the same.
They work well with light Taiwan and Tiegaunyin oolongs. However,
avoid heavy roasted oolong teas or traditional Chao Zhou gungfu brewing
techniques with dense teapots. The density of the clay will overly
concentrate the astringency and bitterness of even the most well
roasted oolongs.

So far:
Tap a teapot with the lid and listen to the sound.
Low dull pitch = bad
Very high pitch = good for light oolongs only (no medium/heavy roasted
oolongs)
Simple right? Well...not really.

We still haven't considered the thickness of a teapot or its shape.
Square shaped, hexagonal shaped, rosettes, etc., do not ring when they
are struck. Thick-walled teapots don't ring the same as thin-walled
teapots. Cylindrical shapes don't sound the same as round teapots.
This means really good zisha clays can ring low and dull if they are
made very thick, or if they have shapes with many corners and
edges-good zisha teapots can be mistaken for bad clay.

OK, so we can't trust the sound test. Now what? Well, now I gotta
go take a break.

Before I go I would like to mention the etiquette of sound testing
teapots. Please ask the owner if you may tap the teapot before doing
so. The owner may prefer to demonstrate the sound for you. Never use
the thin flange under the lid to strike the teapot, because it is the
most fragile section of the entire teapot. Rather, use the knob on top
of the lid to gently tap the side of the teapot. Better yet, only drag
the knob along the side of the teapot and listen to the vibration.
Please avoid partially lifting and dropping the lid back onto the body
to test the vibration, as the lid can be damaged, and the sound will
not be accurate anyway.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Tapping is a very common test
and every week people tap my teapots in ways that make my heart jump to
my throat. Even tea aficionados frequently commit the acts above. A
teapot collector struck my antique teapot that is over 100 years old
with the thin flange of the lid. I had a heart attack.

I haven't fully explained how to look for quality, but I hope that I
have so far provided some interesting and helpful information. I can
share more about clay if anyone is interested in reading such long
explanations. This is really a very advanced topic and there's just
so much to the art of tea.

Bill Lee
www.chinaflairtea.com

11/16/06


> I'm curious about people's experience with less-than-perfect teapots.
> The rule is balance of spout-mouth-handle and perfect occlusion of the
> vent/ spout. If you block the vent-hole and the spout keeps pouring,
> what kind of an effect does this have on the tea? What about an
> imbalanced spout-mouth-handle? If you've got one of these imperfect
> teapots, what do you do with it--do you keep it? Get rid of it? I'd
> love to know other people's thoughts/ experiences.
>

It's a great question, and my answer is this: You
develop a relationship with a teapot, most of
which are imperfect in some way, as you would
develop a relationship with other bits of this
imperfect world. The specific answer to the
spout question: You need to decide if you
like the pot, and if you do, what tea this pot
would like to make. The flaw is not serious
with all teas. A painfully slow pour is a far
more serious flaw since it ruins the steep
time, but you can compensate even for that
by shortening the steep time. In other words,
the flaws and you work together to produce
the brew. Anyway, that's my personal
opinion on the matter. Cut the pot some
slack. That's the spirit. Most likely you can
learn more about brewing tea from a flawed
than from a perfect pot, if such a thing ever
should be.

Michael

Michael Plant wrote:
> It's a great question, and my answer is this: You
> develop a relationship with a teapot, most of
> which are imperfect in some way, as you would
> develop a relationship with other bits of this
> imperfect world. The specific answer to the
> spout question: You need to decide if you
> like the pot, and if you do, what tea this pot
> would like to make. The flaw is not serious
> with all teas. A painfully slow pour is a far
> more serious flaw since it ruins the steep
> time, but you can compensate even for that
> by shortening the steep time. In other words,
> the flaws and you work together to produce
> the brew. Anyway, that's my personal
> opinion on the matter. Cut the pot some
> slack. That's the spirit. Most likely you can
> learn more about brewing tea from a flawed
> than from a perfect pot, if such a thing ever
> should be.
>
> Michael

Couldn't possibly agree more. The reality is that the majority of
teapots are "imperfect" in some way, and that is the character of a
hand made product. To only use and buy "perfect" teapots is a bit
pretentious and against the true nature of tea in my opinion. Good tea
is not made from only the best equipment and the best leaf, good tea is
much more than that.

Sure some basic, time-tested, design standards make sense and help, but
beyond that it just doesn't matter.

- Dominic

>
> It's a great question, and my answer is this: You
> develop a relationship with a teapot, most of
> which are imperfect in some way, as you would
> develop a relationship with other bits of this
> imperfect world. The specific answer to the
> spout question: You need to decide if you
> like the pot, and if you do, what tea this pot
> would like to make.

I like your way of thinking. Thank you.

The hole in the lid helps with smoother pours. You block it and you
get gushing. You want a teapot that 'disappears' in daily use. You
put up with the quirks in the beginning but that is the bottom line. I
think in general commercial pots have the ergonometrics worked out
versus the holiday one of a kind gift. I have a mexican lidded clay
pitcher I use as a pot once in a while. It's festive. When the tea
goes over that edge get out the mop. I've never thrown away a pot I
didn't like. When people complain of messy pours it is most like they
are overfilling the pot which should be 3/4 at max and I prefer 2/3
with English style pots.

Jim

Danica wrote:
> I'm curious about people's experience with less-than-perfect teapots.
> The rule is balance of spout-mouth-handle and perfect occlusion of the
> vent/ spout. If you block the vent-hole and the spout keeps pouring,
> what kind of an effect does this have on the tea? What about an
> imbalanced spout-mouth-handle? If you've got one of these imperfect
> teapots, what do you do with it--do you keep it? Get rid of it? I'd
> love to know other people's thoughts/ experiences.

Danica wrote:
> I'm curious about people's experience with less-than-perfect teapots.

Mostly I drink tea from them.

"Andy Dingley >" > writes:

> Danica wrote:
> > I'm curious about people's experience with less-than-perfect teapots.
>
> Mostly I drink tea from them.

Drinking straight from the spout, you probably prefer what most people
around here would consider an imperfect teapot: one that pours slowly.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
recently updated: Ying Pan Shan

Lewis Perin > wrote:
>"Andy Dingley >" > writes:
>> Danica wrote:
>> > I'm curious about people's experience with less-than-perfect teapots.
>>
>> Mostly I drink tea from them.
>
>Drinking straight from the spout, you probably prefer what most people
>around here would consider an imperfect teapot: one that pours slowly.

No, no, you need it as fast as possible, so you can get the maximum health
benefits from your green tea. Just pour it down and don't try to taste it...

Hey... we could market this. The teabong.... I see a great need...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Just thinking of the function of the vessel for a moment (i.e., a
container for brewing tea!), what difference does it make if the pot
pours or not when one stops the air-hole?

I can understand that it would be a general indicator of quality, but,
in and of itself, it surely can't be seen as a major defect. At worst,
there is a small place between lid and pot where air can pass, in
addition to the air-hole. I cannot imagine that such a "defect" would
ever change the characteristic of the tea, nor can I imagine how a tiny
additional air-hole would alter the pour of the pot. Do please
enlighten!

It has never happened to me, but if I received a pot that "dribbled"
when I blocked up the air-hole, I can't imagine myself discarding it.
Just as a poster above mentioned, it is a little "character" for the
pot, more than anything else.


Toodlepip,

Hobbes

HobbesOxon wrote:
> Just thinking of the function of the vessel for a moment (i.e., a
> container for brewing tea!), what difference does it make if the pot
> pours or not when one stops the air-hole?
>
> I can understand that it would be a general indicator of quality, but,
> in and of itself, it surely can't be seen as a major defect. At worst,
> there is a small place between lid and pot where air can pass, in
> addition to the air-hole. I cannot imagine that such a "defect" would
> ever change the characteristic of the tea, nor can I imagine how a tiny
> additional air-hole would alter the pour of the pot. Do please
> enlighten!
>
> It has never happened to me, but if I received a pot that "dribbled"
> when I blocked up the air-hole, I can't imagine myself discarding it.
> Just as a poster above mentioned, it is a little "character" for the
> pot, more than anything else.
>
>
> Toodlepip,
>
> Hobbes

I agree, in so far as the original seller not making any promise as to
the worksmanship of the pot, and also the price paid for said pot.

In and of itself, the pot pouring while pressing on the hole is not a
huge issue, IMO. If the pot leaks from the lid while pouring, even
carefully, then we've got a problem. Or if the spout pours poorly and
water dribbles, or some such.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

So why all the hoop-la then regarding the vent hole in the lids? Does
anyone know?

> I can understand that it would be a general indicator of quality, but,
> in and of itself, it surely can't be seen as a major defect. At worst,
> there is a small place between lid and pot where air can pass, in
> addition to the air-hole. I cannot imagine that such a "defect" would
> ever change the characteristic of the tea, nor can I imagine how a tiny
> additional air-hole would alter the pour of the pot. Do please
> enlighten!

Danica > wrote:
>So why all the hoop-la then regarding the vent hole in the lids? Does
>anyone know?

In part because it's handy to be able to block the vent hole in order to
control the flow of tea.

And in part because folks do actually care about craftsmanship that goes
beyond the minimum required to produce a workable product.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"HobbesOxon" > writes:

> Just thinking of the function of the vessel for a moment (i.e., a
> container for brewing tea!), what difference does it make if the pot
> pours or not when one stops the air-hole?
> [...]

No teapot expert I, so please take this as a guess: If stopping the
air-hole halts the pour completely, then you're *completely* sure
there's no leak from around the lid. Overkill, maybe, but certainty.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
recent addition: Hong Shui

Perfection seems like a lot to ask of a teapot. Functionality seems
more realistic. I test the vacuum of Yixing teapots and if the vent
hole is accessible, I check whether blocking it stops the flow, I
don't regard either of those tests as crucial though. The main thing
is how the pot handles and pours. I have tossed pots in the trash or
deposited them at Goddwill for irremediable dribbling down the front or
one burnt finger too many.

There are teapots with historical, scholarly, or sentimental value
quite separate from their ability to hold a proper amount of heat for
their respective types of tea and deliver that tea reliably to cup or
serving vessel. I don't own any of those. Having said that, I try to
give any teapot a fair chance. I just bought a rather pricy (for me)
new Yixing teapot--black zini clay and a cool square shape--intending
to use it for puerh. The built in strainer tends to clog up with the
fine broken bits that flake off cakes or bricks. I'm going to try a
piece of stainless mesh in front of the strainer, and if that doesn't
work, I'll give it a shot with darker oolongs.
BW

Danica wrote:
> I'm curious about people's experience with less-than-perfect teapots.
> The rule is balance of spout-mouth-handle and perfect occlusion of the
> vent/ spout. If you block the vent-hole and the spout keeps pouring,
> what kind of an effect does this have on the tea? What about an
> imbalanced spout-mouth-handle? If you've got one of these imperfect
> teapots, what do you do with it--do you keep it? Get rid of it? I'd
> love to know other people's thoughts/ experiences.