I really hope I didn't offend anyone by describing a tea as being colored
like urine.
That was the only thing I could think of with the same pale yellow
transparency.
Something sure cut of the discussion when so many people who responded
wanted
clarification as to how the tea was brewed and was the yellow bright or
dark.
I have some Wuyi coming from Imperial Tea Court and a few more Oolongs that
I haven't
tried. Over the last thirty years I have done everything I can think of
short of going to China to find this tea! The way things are going I might
find myself over there on business in the next few years.

WEL

"lubarsky" > writes:

> I really hope I didn't offend anyone by describing a tea as being
> colored like urine.

Don't worry about it. I certainly wasn't offended. I might add that
if you think this might offend those who read this newsgroup, you
probably haven't been reading it very long!

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I was offended and nearly upchucked. Now I can't drink tea without thinking
of drinking pee.

lubarsky wrote:
> I really hope I didn't offend anyone by describing a tea as being colored
> like urine.
> That was the only thing I could think of with the same pale yellow
> transparency.
> Something sure cut of the discussion when so many people who responded
> wanted
> clarification as to how the tea was brewed and was the yellow bright or
> dark.
> I have some Wuyi coming from Imperial Tea Court and a few more Oolongs that
> I haven't
> tried. Over the last thirty years I have done everything I can think of
> short of going to China to find this tea! The way things are going I might
> find myself over there on business in the next few years.
>
> WEL


I am not in the least offended by your analogy, but as
any urologist of yesteryear can tell you, urine varies
greatly in color and taste. To make your analogy
meaningful, you need to go much further. The straw
color of a snow patched meadow is one of my
favorites, but of course it's equally unhelpful.
Anyway, the pee analogy is as good as any.
Hope you're not offended by my criticism.

Michael

I thought you meant you drink a lot of pee. To each their own.

Jim

lubarsky wrote:
> I really hope I didn't offend anyone by describing a tea as being colored
> like urine.

lubarsky wrote:
> I really hope I didn't offend anyone by describing a tea as being colored
> like urine.
> That was the only thing I could think of with the same pale yellow
> transparency.
> Something sure cut of the discussion when so many people who responded
> wanted
> clarification as to how the tea was brewed and was the yellow bright or
> dark.
> I have some Wuyi coming from Imperial Tea Court and a few more Oolongs that
> I haven't
> tried. Over the last thirty years I have done everything I can think of
> short of going to China to find this tea! The way things are going I might
> find myself over there on business in the next few years.
>
> WEL

Well, no, I don't think we're offended, just that.... something else
came up and we really have nothing else to offer you, in terms of which
tea it might've been anyway.

I still think it could be a lighter fired Wuyi...

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

lubarsky > wrote:
>I really hope I didn't offend anyone by describing a tea as being colored
>like urine.

That's not offensive. Now, if you had said it TASTED like urine, that
would be offensive. For one thing, people would want to know how you knew.

>That was the only thing I could think of with the same pale yellow
>transparency.

Apple juice, maybe? Part of the problem with your analogy, though, is that
urine has a very wide range of colors, so it won't really help people get
an idea of what it's like.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Zarky Zork > wrote:
>I was offended and nearly upchucked. Now I can't drink tea without thinking
>of drinking pee.

You should try kombucha, then.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Apple juice, maybe? Part of the problem with your analogy, though, is that
> urine has a very wide range of colors, so it won't really help people get
> an idea of what it's like.
> --scott
My guess is apple juice is too dark.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

I think what you all should do is to use a color key to identify color.
The printing and graphics design industry has been using it to identify
color for a long time, why not us?

Just do a google search on color key. This is one of the websites
offering color key:

http://www.cranesoftwrights.com/reso...r/colorkey.htm

Alternatively, people can buy color key from a print shop. It looks
like a fan when you open it up. (Think 'Jotun' paint machine at Ace
Hardware.) It has all the number codings and fancy names on it.

In case some of you don't know, this handy color key is used to
standardize color perception in printing. For example, we are staring
at a color and we found out what color it is on the color key. We take
a picture of that object and try to put it in our magazine. If the
correctness of color is that important to us, we need to make sure what
we have on screen is what we have on the color key by using software
such as Photoshop (picture color is always off.) Lastly, the printer
technician will need to do visual comparison with a color key as well
so that the final printout looks exactly like the original.


Hee


MarshalN wrote:
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> > Apple juice, maybe? Part of the problem with your analogy, though, is that
> > urine has a very wide range of colors, so it won't really help people get
> > an idea of what it's like.
> > --scott
> My guess is apple juice is too dark.
>
> MarshalN
> http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

[Hee on color keys and pee]
> In case some of you don't know, this handy color key is used to
> standardize color perception in printing. For example, we are staring
> at a color and we found out what color it is on the color key. We take
> a picture of that object and try to put it in our magazine. If the
> correctness of color is that important to us, we need to make sure what
> we have on screen is what we have on the color key by using software
> such as Photoshop (picture color is always off.) Lastly, the printer
> technician will need to do visual comparison with a color key as well
> so that the final printout looks exactly like the original.

Hi Hee,
Yes, a color key makes good sense, but there goes
poetry down the old drain, if you follow my meaning.
Michael

[Hee on color keys and pee]
> In case some of you don't know, this handy color key is used to
> standardize color perception in printing. For example, we are staring
> at a color and we found out what color it is on the color key. We take
> a picture of that object and try to put it in our magazine. If the
> correctness of color is that important to us, we need to make sure what
> we have on screen is what we have on the color key by using software
> such as Photoshop (picture color is always off.) Lastly, the printer
> technician will need to do visual comparison with a color key as well
> so that the final printout looks exactly like the original.

Hi Hee,
Yes, a color key makes good sense, but there goes
poetry down the old drain, if you follow my meaning.
Michael

In article .com>,
> wrote:

>I am not in the least offended by your analogy, but as
>any urologist of yesteryear can tell you, urine varies
>greatly in color and taste.

Where is Sasha when we need him?

(Referring to an [in]famous post of a few years back which I wish I had
saved.)

Rick.

Plus ever try to match a fleck of paint to a color key?

Jim

wrote:
> [Hee on color keys and pee]
> > In case some of you don't know, this handy color key is used to
> > standardize color perception in printing. For example, we are staring
> > at a color and we found out what color it is on the color key. We take
> > a picture of that object and try to put it in our magazine. If the
> > correctness of color is that important to us, we need to make sure what
> > we have on screen is what we have on the color key by using software
> > such as Photoshop (picture color is always off.) Lastly, the printer
> > technician will need to do visual comparison with a color key as well
> > so that the final printout looks exactly like the original.
>
> Hi Hee,
> Yes, a color key makes good sense, but there goes
> poetry down the old drain, if you follow my meaning.
> Michael

Hee wrote:
> I think what you all should do is to use a color key to identify color.
> The printing and graphics design industry has been using it to identify
> color for a long time, why not us?
> Just do a google search on color key. This is one of the websites
> offering color key:
> http://www.cranesoftwrights.com/reso...r/colorkey.htm

It's a good idea, for people who want to be able to specify color more
objectively. If I may, a few suggestions and warnings:

1. The web site mentioned lists screen colors for emissive displays
(like a computer monitor). For a number of physical and cognitive
reasons, such cannot readily be mapped onto the color of a
light-absorbing physical object like tea. One key is the notation RGB,
which applies to additive colors (mixed lights). You need subtractive
colors (often listed as CMY, CMYK) for this. Google it if interested.

2. There are several standard sets of these, available at little or no
cost. Probably the two most common in the US are Pantone and Munsell.
Pantone is a standardized way of mixing standard printing inks to match
a wide range of colors, though tending more to strong tones
(technically, high saturation) than appropriate for tea. The Munsell
"chips" are likewise available in fan-out strips, have a very simple and
intuitive color-naming system, and usefully divide the needed color
range. I was surprised to find a septic engineer using Munsell chips to
describe the subtle colors of different layers of sand in my
percolation-test pits. Free color chips at paint stores aren't very
useful, since they have arbitrary, proprietary names.

3. In comparing tea with color chips, the illuminant is important. Color
can change dramatically under different lights, an extreme example being
the gem alexandrite going from red to green. (Google "metamerism" for
more.) For reasons having to do with the shape of absorption curves,
this is less of a problem with tea than with synthetically dyed clothes,
e.g., but it would still be best to match only under clear northern
light or some other smooth-spectrum standard.

4. Brewed-tea color terminology is often pretty sloppy. In describing
Pu-erhs, for example, people often confuse "depth of color" with
transparency - they are linked, but a nearly colorless brew can be
nearly opaque if it scatters a lot, and a perfectly "clear" solution can
appear quite opaque due to pure absorption. Similarly, the apparent
color of dry leaf can depend a lot of how sharp ("specular") or broad
("diffuse") the light source is, especially for shiny (waxy or wet) leaves.

More if anyone wants it, perhaps off-group. (I used to work in a color
lab and give talks on color theory to artists and engineers.)
Personally, I'm with Michael - for those not in the business, how much
precision is needed?

-DM

Richard 12/18/06


> In article .com>,
> > wrote:
>
>> I am not in the least offended by your analogy, but as
>> any urologist of yesteryear can tell you, urine varies
>> greatly in color and taste.
>
> Where is Sasha when we need him?
>
> (Referring to an [in]famous post of a few years back which I wish I had
> saved.)

This is where Google comes in handy.
Let us search the meadows and sniff
the air for wild stallions.
Michael

Excuse me?

I am always here, just silent (I know, I know, it seem unnatural )))))))
But I am going through the hardest time in my life (too much excitement of
anticipation and promise and high-profile allies but almost nothing in terms
of action for too long) and that descends on me in a form of mild stupor.

Sasha.


"Richard Chappell" > wrote in message
...
> In article .com>,
> > wrote:
>
>>I am not in the least offended by your analogy, but as
>>any urologist of yesteryear can tell you, urine varies
>>greatly in color and taste.
>
> Where is Sasha when we need him?
>
> (Referring to an [in]famous post of a few years back which I wish I had
> saved.)
>
> Rick.

Also, when it comes to the shades of yellow there is a wonderful language to
describe them that was developed at the biggest amber deposit in the world
in former Eastern Prussia not far away from Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad after
it was annexed in 1945) - a small town of "Yantarnoe".
Unfortunately its in Russian and therefore of very little use on this forum.
But I remember vividly descriptions like "beer ****", "dull bloody ****" and
"cream in **** not stirred" Also there was a "tea amber" that would be used
only for very dull watery reddish yellow variety that was of the lowest
quality and they developed a technology that would produce small leaf-like
internal cracks with high reflectivity (naturally) by very carefully heating
the amber in special conditions that at the time was a secret (although
everything was a secret in Russia at that time).
The funniest was the way they called very rare (I have never seen it outside
Yantarnoe) blue amber - "*** ****" - because "blue" in Russian is a "***
color" and used to describe things and people ***.

Sasha.


"Richard Chappell" > wrote in message
...
> In article .com>,
> > wrote:
>
>>I am not in the least offended by your analogy, but as
>>any urologist of yesteryear can tell you, urine varies
>>greatly in color and taste.
>
> Where is Sasha when we need him?
>
> (Referring to an [in]famous post of a few years back which I wish I had
> saved.)
>
> Rick.

"Alex Chaihorsky" > writes:

> [...lexicography of amber/urine color...]
>
> The funniest was the way they called very rare (I have never seen it
> outside Yantarnoe) blue amber - "*** ****" - because "blue" in
> Russian is a "*** color" and used to describe things and people ***.

That's fascinating, Lao Tongzhi!

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I have to admit, that despite my despise of all things commie, Lao TongZhi
in both English and Russian equivalents still sound surprisingly good, at
least from a friend. Although you should know that "TongZhi" now used in
China outside of official CPC talk as a derogatory word for homosexual.
"Lao" will only add more insult to the injury!

I also thing that may be it would be better to translate "blue ****" as a
"blue pee".

Sasha.

"Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
news
> "Alex Chaihorsky" > writes:
>
>> [...lexicography of amber/urine color...]
>>
>> The funniest was the way they called very rare (I have never seen it
>> outside Yantarnoe) blue amber - "*** ****" - because "blue" in
>> Russian is a "*** color" and used to describe things and people ***.
>
> That's fascinating, Lao Tongzhi!
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

"Alex Chaihorsky" > writes:
>
> "Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
> news
> > "Alex Chaihorsky" > writes:
> >
> >> [...lexicography of amber/urine color...]
> >>
> >> The funniest was the way they called very rare (I have never seen it
> >> outside Yantarnoe) blue amber - "*** ****" - because "blue" in
> >> Russian is a "*** color" and used to describe things and people ***.
> >
> > That's fascinating, Lao Tongzhi!
> >
> I have to admit, that despite my despise of all things commie, Lao
> TongZhi in both English and Russian equivalents still sound
> surprisingly good, at least from a friend. Although you should know
> that "TongZhi" now used in China outside of official CPC talk as a
> derogatory word for homosexual.

Uh, yes, I'm aware. I wouldn't have used that expression if you
weren't a friend of mine, and a friend with an absurdist sense of humor.

>"Lao" will only add more insult to the injury!

With regard to Lao, I guess it takes one to know one.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

> Also, when it comes to the shades of yellow there is a wonderful language to
> describe them that was developed at the biggest amber deposit in the world
> in former Eastern Prussia not far away from Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad after
> it was annexed in 1945) - a small town of "Yantarnoe".
> Unfortunately its in Russian and therefore of very little use on this forum.
> But I remember vividly descriptions like "beer ****", "dull bloody ****" and
> "cream in **** not stirred" Also there was a "tea amber" that would be used
> only for very dull watery reddish yellow variety that was of the lowest
> quality and they developed a technology that would produce small leaf-like
> internal cracks with high reflectivity (naturally) by very carefully heating
> the amber in special conditions that at the time was a secret (although
> everything was a secret in Russia at that time).
> The funniest was the way they called very rare (I have never seen it outside
> Yantarnoe) blue amber - "*** ****" - because "blue" in Russian is a "***
> color" and used to describe things and people ***.

Sasha, thanks for expanding and elucidating the **** analogies.
So much to learn, and so little time.
Michael