I've recently been drinking a tea that's very unusual, at least in my
experience.

It's a Taiwan oolong brought back by a kind colleague of mine. The
label on the vacuum-packed bag says, in Chinese, only that it's Jin
Xuan and gives an expiration date. The dry leaf is very green and
rather loosely rolled. The infused leaf is green, too, with no red or
brown anywhere. The leaves are surprisingly small for an oolong.

This tea isn't floral at all. The main flavor/aroma notes, to my
palate, are nutty, maize-kernel, and maybe a bit of cucumber. There's
a pleasing hint of bitterness but no astringency.

OK, that brings us to what's unusual about this tea. So far is it
from being astringent, it's actually buttery. I'm being completely
literal here; I have tasted Tibetan butter tea without the barley, and
its texture is just like that of this Taiwan oolong. The buttery
texture lasts through many steeps, by the way, so I rather doubt this
is something sprayed on.

Does anyone have an idea what I'm drinking and why it behaves this way?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lewis 12/18/06

> I've recently been drinking a tea that's very unusual, at least in my
> experience.
>
> It's a Taiwan oolong brought back by a kind colleague of mine. The
> label on the vacuum-packed bag says, in Chinese, only that it's Jin
> Xuan and gives an expiration date. The dry leaf is very green and
> rather loosely rolled. The infused leaf is green, too, with no red or
> brown anywhere. The leaves are surprisingly small for an oolong.
>
> This tea isn't floral at all. The main flavor/aroma notes, to my
> palate, are nutty, maize-kernel, and maybe a bit of cucumber. There's
> a pleasing hint of bitterness but no astringency.
>
> OK, that brings us to what's unusual about this tea. So far is it
> from being astringent, it's actually buttery. I'm being completely
> literal here; I have tasted Tibetan butter tea without the barley, and
> its texture is just like that of this Taiwan oolong. The buttery
> texture lasts through many steeps, by the way, so I rather doubt this
> is something sprayed on.
>
> Does anyone have an idea what I'm drinking and why it behaves this way?

Nope. no idea. The cucumber thing brings good Bao Zhong
to mind, and the butter thing, Gyokuro. Am I moving
closer or further out?
Michael

I know there has been some discussion of this tea in the past. There
is information on the Internet. I've been waiting for an independent
verification of the buttery taste. It's been on my radar for awhile
and I think the perfect Christmas gift to myself. I think this is also
known as Taiwan milk tea not to be confused with Boba.

Jim

Lewis Perin wrote:
> I've recently been drinking a tea that's very unusual, at least in my
> experience.
>
> It's a Taiwan oolong brought back by a kind colleague of mine. The
> label on the vacuum-packed bag says, in Chinese, only that it's Jin
> Xuan and gives an expiration date. The dry leaf is very green and
> rather loosely rolled. The infused leaf is green, too, with no red or
> brown anywhere. The leaves are surprisingly small for an oolong.
>
> This tea isn't floral at all. The main flavor/aroma notes, to my
> palate, are nutty, maize-kernel, and maybe a bit of cucumber. There's
> a pleasing hint of bitterness but no astringency.
>
> OK, that brings us to what's unusual about this tea. So far is it
> from being astringent, it's actually buttery. I'm being completely
> literal here; I have tasted Tibetan butter tea without the barley, and
> its texture is just like that of this Taiwan oolong. The buttery
> texture lasts through many steeps, by the way, so I rather doubt this
> is something sprayed on.
>
> Does anyone have an idea what I'm drinking and why it behaves this way?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Michael Plant > writes:

> Lewis 12/18/06
>
> > I've recently been drinking a tea that's very unusual, at least in my
> > experience.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Does anyone have an idea what I'm drinking and why it behaves this way?
>
> Nope. no idea. The cucumber thing brings good Bao Zhong to mind, and
> the butter thing, Gyokuro. Am I moving closer or further out?

I'm afraid it isn't like either of those.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

"Space Cowboy" > writes:

> I know there has been some discussion of this tea in the past. There
> is information on the Internet. I've been waiting for an independent
> verification of the buttery taste. It's been on my radar for awhile
> and I think the perfect Christmas gift to myself. I think this is also
> known as Taiwan milk tea not to be confused with Boba.

Right, you mean Nai Xiang, which I think is made with the Jin Xuan
cultivar identified on the bag this tea came in. That possibility had
occurred to me, but I didn't want to prejudge this.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lewis Perin wrote:
> "Space Cowboy" > writes:
>
> > I know there has been some discussion of this tea in the past. There
> > is information on the Internet. I've been waiting for an independent
> > verification of the buttery taste. It's been on my radar for awhile
> > and I think the perfect Christmas gift to myself. I think this is also
> > known as Taiwan milk tea not to be confused with Boba.
>
> Right, you mean Nai Xiang, which I think is made with the Jin Xuan
> cultivar identified on the bag this tea came in. That possibility had
> occurred to me, but I didn't want to prejudge this.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I'd think it's the "milk" tea as well. I've had it before, and while
interesting, I thought it got boring quickly.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

> OK, that brings us to what's unusual about this tea. So far is it
> from being astringent, it's actually buttery. I'm being completely
> literal here; I have tasted Tibetan butter tea without the barley, and
> its texture is just like that of this Taiwan oolong. The buttery
> texture lasts through many steeps, by the way, so I rather doubt this
> is something sprayed on.
>
> Does anyone have an idea what I'm drinking and why it behaves this way?


Sounds to me like you managed to buy yourself a nice grade of some "nai
xiang" (milk flavored; as you describe) wulong. It is just another
type of Taiwan wulong and come to mention it, I have also seen some
mainland Tie Guan Yin that was nai xiang. As for how natural it is, I
have heard various sources say both sides; natural/unnatural.

I tried a tea with distinctive if noit strong buttery taste (almost texture)
once in China, the "buttery" was very distinctive. I would not compare it
with Nai Xiang, which I like very much but IMHO is not buttery at all. I
understand that the comparison of Lew's tea with Nai Xiang is coming from
milk-cream-butter logic, but once you try that buttery taste in tea you will
probably agree that its not nai-xiangy at all. And the aroma is not milky at
all.
That is - in the tea I tried. Lew can tell us if this is the same case with
this tea.

Sasha.


"Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
news
> I've recently been drinking a tea that's very unusual, at least in my
> experience.
>
> It's a Taiwan oolong brought back by a kind colleague of mine. The
> label on the vacuum-packed bag says, in Chinese, only that it's Jin
> Xuan and gives an expiration date. The dry leaf is very green and
> rather loosely rolled. The infused leaf is green, too, with no red or
> brown anywhere. The leaves are surprisingly small for an oolong.
>
> This tea isn't floral at all. The main flavor/aroma notes, to my
> palate, are nutty, maize-kernel, and maybe a bit of cucumber. There's
> a pleasing hint of bitterness but no astringency.
>
> OK, that brings us to what's unusual about this tea. So far is it
> from being astringent, it's actually buttery. I'm being completely
> literal here; I have tasted Tibetan butter tea without the barley, and
> its texture is just like that of this Taiwan oolong. The buttery
> texture lasts through many steeps, by the way, so I rather doubt this
> is something sprayed on.
>
> Does anyone have an idea what I'm drinking and why it behaves this way?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

It's nice to hear your voice again, Sasha!

"Alex Chaihorsky" > writes:
>
> "Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
> news
> > I've recently been drinking a tea that's very unusual, at least in my
> > experience.
> > [...very like Tibetan butter tea...]
>
> I tried a tea with distinctive if noit strong buttery taste (almost
> texture) once in China, the "buttery" was very distinctive. I would
> not compare it with Nai Xiang, which I like very much but IMHO is
> not buttery at all. I understand that the comparison of Lew's tea
> with Nai Xiang is coming from milk-cream-butter logic, but once you
> try that buttery taste in tea you will probably agree that its not
> nai-xiangy at all. And the aroma is not milky at all.
> That is - in the tea I tried. Lew can tell us if this is the same
> case with this tea.

Yes, exactly. It's really a texture rather than a taste. I can't
comment on Nai Xiang, since I've only read about it; it just seemed
plausible because of the name.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I'm sure Lew has done this. If you plug the characters for JinXuan and
NaiXiang into Google you see them almost being used in the same
sentence.

http://tinyurl.com/y5jedg

However I suspect that 'buttery taste' is sufficiently different than
'milk fragrance' as you both suggest. If anyone knows of the Chinese
characters for 'buttery taste' I'd like to know what they are. I'm
going to order some JinXuan NaiXiang after the New Year. I hope it
taste more like butter and smells less like milk.

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
> I tried a tea with distinctive if noit strong buttery taste (almost texture)
> once in China, the "buttery" was very distinctive. I would not compare it
> with Nai Xiang, which I like very much but IMHO is not buttery at all. I
> understand that the comparison of Lew's tea with Nai Xiang is coming from
> milk-cream-butter logic, but once you try that buttery taste in tea you will
> probably agree that its not nai-xiangy at all. And the aroma is not milky at
> all.
> That is - in the tea I tried. Lew can tell us if this is the same case with
> this tea.
>
> Sasha.
>
>
> "Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
> news
> > I've recently been drinking a tea that's very unusual, at least in my
> > experience.
> >
> > It's a Taiwan oolong brought back by a kind colleague of mine. The
> > label on the vacuum-packed bag says, in Chinese, only that it's Jin
> > Xuan and gives an expiration date. The dry leaf is very green and
> > rather loosely rolled. The infused leaf is green, too, with no red or
> > brown anywhere. The leaves are surprisingly small for an oolong.
> >
> > This tea isn't floral at all. The main flavor/aroma notes, to my
> > palate, are nutty, maize-kernel, and maybe a bit of cucumber. There's
> > a pleasing hint of bitterness but no astringency.
> >
> > OK, that brings us to what's unusual about this tea. So far is it
> > from being astringent, it's actually buttery. I'm being completely
> > literal here; I have tasted Tibetan butter tea without the barley, and
> > its texture is just like that of this Taiwan oolong. The buttery
> > texture lasts through many steeps, by the way, so I rather doubt this
> > is something sprayed on.
> >
> > Does anyone have an idea what I'm drinking and why it behaves this way?
> >
> > /Lew
> > ---
> > Lew Perin /
> > http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
> I tried a tea with distinctive if noit strong buttery taste (almost texture)
> once in China, the "buttery" was very distinctive. I would not compare it
> with Nai Xiang, which I like very much but IMHO is not buttery at all. I
> understand that the comparison of Lew's tea with Nai Xiang is coming from
> milk-cream-butter logic, but once you try that buttery taste in tea you will
> probably agree that its not nai-xiangy at all. And the aroma is not milky at
> all.
> That is - in the tea I tried. Lew can tell us if this is the same case with
> this tea.

I've had both of these styles of tea before, I think. There was a
specific pick of Tie Guan Yin in the 2005 batch from Xi Ping that my
friend let me try that reminds me of what you have said above. I just
figured since Lew said his tea was from Taiwain, it was more than
likely Nai Xiang because some of the high mountain stuff can come
across having that texture.

Space Cowboy wrote:
> I'm sure Lew has done this. If you plug the characters for JinXuan and
> NaiXiang into Google you see them almost being used in the same
> sentence.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y5jedg
>
> However I suspect that 'buttery taste' is sufficiently different than
> 'milk fragrance' as you both suggest. If anyone knows of the Chinese
> characters for 'buttery taste' I'd like to know what they are. I'm
> going to order some JinXuan NaiXiang after the New Year. I hope it
> taste more like butter and smells less like milk.

I might be wrong here, but I believe that jinxuan is the cultivar, and
naixiang is a descriptive term for that cultivar meaning that it smells
like milk.

Butteryness (if I am following) is something different entirely, like
(back to wine) Chardonnay can be sometimes. I would say that a wine,
or a tea, was buttery when the mouthfeel is very filling and almost
oily. I've drank a lot of Taiwanese oolongs, and noted a wide range of
milk-like tastes from the milkshake smell of jinxuan to the occaisional
cream smell of luanze. I've never noticed myself thinking that one of
them was "buttery", but they do vary widely in the heaviness/smoothness
of the texture.

It would also be interesting to know how you (Lew) steeped it to get
the butter out.

Correct. I was just wondering if there is a term for 'buttery taste'
that would compliment the fragrance of milk. If anyone would know I
would expect it to be you. I notice in the links you want the JinXuan
NaiXiang that comes from the Taiwan Tea Research Institute. The
buttery taste might be the really good stuff.

Jim

Alex wrote:
> Space Cowboy wrote:
> > I'm sure Lew has done this. If you plug the characters for JinXuan and
> > NaiXiang into Google you see them almost being used in the same
> > sentence.
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/y5jedg
> >
> > However I suspect that 'buttery taste' is sufficiently different than
> > 'milk fragrance' as you both suggest. If anyone knows of the Chinese
> > characters for 'buttery taste' I'd like to know what they are. I'm
> > going to order some JinXuan NaiXiang after the New Year. I hope it
> > taste more like butter and smells less like milk.
>
> I might be wrong here, but I believe that jinxuan is the cultivar, and
> naixiang is a descriptive term for that cultivar meaning that it smells
> like milk.
....blizzard...

"Alex" > writes:

> [...]
> I might be wrong here, but I believe that jinxuan is the cultivar,

I'm sure you're right about that.

> and naixiang is a descriptive term for that cultivar meaning that it
> smells like milk.
>
> Butteryness (if I am following) is something different entirely, like
> (back to wine) Chardonnay can be sometimes. I would say that a wine,
> or a tea, was buttery when the mouthfeel is very filling and almost
> oily. I've drank a lot of Taiwanese oolongs, and noted a wide range of
> milk-like tastes from the milkshake smell of jinxuan to the occaisional
> cream smell of luanze. I've never noticed myself thinking that one of
> them was "buttery", but they do vary widely in the heaviness/smoothness
> of the texture.
>
> It would also be interesting to know how you (Lew) steeped it to get
> the butter out.

No churning was needed. I used water a bit less than boiling, 5g of
leaf, and 4 fluid ounces of water. Fairly short steeps for the first
four, then a minute or longer with boiling water.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I posted this discussion on my favorite Russian tea forum http://teatips.ru
(one of the best in the world I think) and here is what its owner Denis
Shumakov dug up from their database (since its a translation from English I
post the original source)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ubmed_ DocSum

Please, notice that this is not just some "Japanese studies" but an NIH
Entrez database, which has quite high standards.

Thank you Denis.

Sasha.


"Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
news
> I've recently been drinking a tea that's very unusual, at least in my
> experience.
>
> It's a Taiwan oolong brought back by a kind colleague of mine. The
> label on the vacuum-packed bag says, in Chinese, only that it's Jin
> Xuan and gives an expiration date. The dry leaf is very green and
> rather loosely rolled. The infused leaf is green, too, with no red or
> brown anywhere. The leaves are surprisingly small for an oolong.
>
> This tea isn't floral at all. The main flavor/aroma notes, to my
> palate, are nutty, maize-kernel, and maybe a bit of cucumber. There's
> a pleasing hint of bitterness but no astringency.
>
> OK, that brings us to what's unusual about this tea. So far is it
> from being astringent, it's actually buttery. I'm being completely
> literal here; I have tasted Tibetan butter tea without the barley, and
> its texture is just like that of this Taiwan oolong. The buttery
> texture lasts through many steeps, by the way, so I rather doubt this
> is something sprayed on.
>
> Does anyone have an idea what I'm drinking and why it behaves this way?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

"Alex Chaihorsky" > writes:

> "Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
> news
> > [...Why a buttery texture in this oolong?...]
>
> I posted this discussion on my favorite Russian tea forum http://teatips.ru
> (one of the best in the world I think) and here is what its owner Denis
> Shumakov dug up from their database (since its a translation from English I
> post the original source)
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ubmed_ DocSum
>
> Please, notice that this is not just some "Japanese studies" but an NIH
> Entrez database, which has quite high standards.
>
> Thank you Denis.

That's a suggestive abstract, all right. When they say "compound 5
exhibits an interesting sweet, buttery flavor", it seems a plausible
attribution, for:

- while my tea isn't sweet, the sweet/bitter balance is of course
influenced by countless components of the liquor; and

- while my tea is notable for a buttery *texture*, not *flavor*, well,
these guys are scientists, and we shouldn't expect precise language
from them when they're trying to describe sensory experience.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

> - while my tea is notable for a buttery *texture*, not *flavor*, well,
> these guys are scientists, and we shouldn't expect precise language
> from them when they're trying to describe sensory experience.
>
> /Lew

Precisely.
But also the word texture has so many meanings in different contexts (for
instance - rock texture is a pure geometric feature, while textile texture
has a "feeling" component).
You also use the word texture with a feeling component, and thus being
blissfully unscientific.
But if these guys found teh way to attribute statistically meaningful
relation between certain compounds of tea and the way our palate reacts to
them - this good IMHO.
Can I be so rude as to ask you to save some for us to try during our next
meeting?

Sasha.

"Alex Chaihorsky" > writes:

> > - while my tea is notable for a buttery *texture*, not *flavor*, well,
> > these guys are scientists, and we shouldn't expect precise language
> > from them when they're trying to describe sensory experience.
> >
> > /Lew
>
> Precisely.
> But also the word texture has so many meanings in different contexts (for
> instance - rock texture is a pure geometric feature, while textile texture
> has a "feeling" component).
> You also use the word texture with a feeling component, and thus being
> blissfully unscientific.

Well, ignorance *is* bliss.

> But if these guys found teh way to attribute statistically meaningful
> relation between certain compounds of tea and the way our palate reacts to
> them - this good IMHO.

Agreed.

> Can I be so rude as to ask you to save some for us to try during our next
> meeting?

If you're trying to be rude, you'll have to try harder. Of course you
can have some! And please convey my thanks to Denis.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html