How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
Asian in a "non-racial" way?

"tea-obsession" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
> Asian in a "non-racial" way?
>

1. You don't.
2. Asian.
3. What is wrong with "oriental"?

Sasha.

I was once told (in a public setting) that Oriential is a word
describing rugs...That was 15 years ago and since then I have tried to
limit my use of the word oriental to only reference rugs...It was only
slightly painful and it got the point across..ocp

..
>> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
>> Asian in a "non-racial" way?

> 1. You don't.
> 2. Asian.
> 3. What is wrong with "oriental"?
> Sasha.

Just don't start calling me occidental,
and you're OK in my book.

In answer to the OP's Q, perhaps you might
say, "Regardless of your race, which I of
course respect, stop calling everything Asian
"oriental" because I DON'T LIKE IT!" or
something like that.

Michael
(Just don't call me late for dinner!)

> I was once told (in a public setting) that Oriential is a word
> describing rugs...That was 15 years ago and since then I have tried to
> limit my use of the word oriental to only reference rugs...It was only
> slightly painful and it got the point across..ocp

Wow, thanks. I thought it was only to be used
to contain a bunch of languages. Of course, the
fact that you were schooled in a public setting
means that I too will be using that word to reference
nothing but rugs from now on.

May I ask what point exactly it got across?

Michael

So you would say Is that an Oriental on your head?

Jim

Michael Plant wrote:
> > I was once told (in a public setting) that Oriential is a word
> > describing rugs...That was 15 years ago and since then I have tried to
> > limit my use of the word oriental to only reference rugs...It was only
> > slightly painful and it got the point across..ocp
>
> Wow, thanks. I thought it was only to be used
> to contain a bunch of languages. Of course, the
> fact that you were schooled in a public setting
> means that I too will be using that word to reference
> nothing but rugs from now on.
>
> May I ask what point exactly it got across?
>
> Michael

If somebody is using Oriental in a derogatory manner it doesn't do any
good to teach them another word. Maybe they're a fan of Charlie Chan
movies who was the Sherlock Holmes of Chinatown.

Jim

tea-obsession wrote:
> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
> Asian in a "non-racial" way?

Sometimes I think that us, foreigners, just enjoy torturing poor American
autochthones with their own political correctness!
If the word "oriental" would be so bad why so many companies all over Asia -
hotels, ship lines, banks, etc. include the word into their name? I doubt
that an American bank on its own soil would call itself "Gringo Bank" or an
Israeli one - a Zhid Bank. The latter BTW is also a very interesting word -
in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Western Ukraine a Jew will call himself a Zhid
and never a "Evrei" (derivative from "Hebre"), while in Russia "Zhid" is an
insult and "Evrei" - is a proper word for saying "Jew, Jewish". In the US
the word Hebrew and especially its derivative "Heeb" if applied not to the
language but to a Jewish person is frowned upon, while in most of the other
countries it is considered to be neutral.
And finally the word "Kike" was never an insult that Gentiles would use
toward a Jew, but rather an American Jew of German descent who came to this
shores earlier will use to insult his Polish "Johnnski-come-lateski" cousin
for his Slavic "-ki" surname ending..

I was told a while ago by my Chinese friends in Vancouver that some
second-rate politician in Washington (state, not DC) convinced local Asian
community that Americans use that word (oriental) as a slur and built his
political career on deleting it from the Washingtonian political language to
a belly-laughter of all the rich Hongkongians across the border.
If they were not pulling my leg, it was (and may be still is) illegal to use
this word in any governmental a paper in the State of Washington! In the
rest of 49 states including CA and NY its actually used all over on the
state and federal level.

Mike, what is wrong with occidental? I guess you would not be so picky if
someone would tell you that you are one of the heirs of Occidental Petroleum
inheritance? )))))))))

How is being called "oikumenal" sounds to you?

Sasha.


"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
> .
>>> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
>>> Asian in a "non-racial" way?
>
>> 1. You don't.
>> 2. Asian.
>> 3. What is wrong with "oriental"?
>> Sasha.
>
> Just don't start calling me occidental,
> and you're OK in my book.
>
> In answer to the OP's Q, perhaps you might
> say, "Regardless of your race, which I of
> course respect, stop calling everything Asian
> "oriental" because I DON'T LIKE IT!" or
> something like that.
>
> Michael
> (Just don't call me late for dinner!)
>

Dear Michael-I try to use the word with care in it's proper setting. I
think we all can tell if it is being used as a slur or not. Our best
judgement should prevail...That goes for all racist terms and pc
correctness...(my pc in my nickname is not on pc of politics, but
rather obsessive complusive pu erh) which I am try to treat every
day...I am using Pu-erh tea as the treatment..ocp

tea-obsession wrote:
> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
> Asian in a "non-racial" way?

You don't. It is perfectly correct to use the word "Oriental" when
describing a thing, "Asian" is preferred for describing people. That is
why airlines, vases, teapots, rugs, etc. are Oriental. It means
"of/from the orient" so it really can be used to describe people as
well, and is not derrogatory just not the most accepted term anymore.
Very few people actually care beyond young politically correct caring
individuals.

Political correctness is all about politics, always need a way to
divide masses of people into manageable chunks so you can appeal to one
or the other. God forbid if everyone were truly just allowed to be
considered equal like they would prefer and not get any special
"status" or pandering from politicians to help keep them divided just
to further their particular agenda. black/white, oriental/asian,
etc./etc. it all would be moot and long since forgotten if it wasn't
constantly pushed in peoples faces to keep the divisions alive.

- Dominic

Sasha, while I immensely enjoyed your informative post,
and while I personally dispize the whole concept of political
correctness as being the point at which the fascist right and
left comingle, dare I say that you are joking when you ask
me what I might have against the word "occidental' when
when used to refer to my humble self?

The African American community -- is that OK to say? --
went through quite a series of designations, watching each
fall out of favor by turns. This linguistic history need not
be explicated here.

Michael


> Sometimes I think that us, foreigners, just enjoy torturing poor American
> autochthones with their own political correctness!
> If the word "oriental" would be so bad why so many companies all over Asia -
> hotels, ship lines, banks, etc. include the word into their name? I doubt
> that an American bank on its own soil would call itself "Gringo Bank" or an
> Israeli one - a Zhid Bank. The latter BTW is also a very interesting word -
> in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Western Ukraine a Jew will call himself a Zhid
> and never a "Evrei" (derivative from "Hebre"), while in Russia "Zhid" is an
> insult and "Evrei" - is a proper word for saying "Jew, Jewish". In the US
> the word Hebrew and especially its derivative "Heeb" if applied not to the
> language but to a Jewish person is frowned upon, while in most of the other
> countries it is considered to be neutral.
> And finally the word "Kike" was never an insult that Gentiles would use
> toward a Jew, but rather an American Jew of German descent who came to this
> shores earlier will use to insult his Polish "Johnnski-come-lateski" cousin
> for his Slavic "-ki" surname ending..
>
> I was told a while ago by my Chinese friends in Vancouver that some
> second-rate politician in Washington (state, not DC) convinced local Asian
> community that Americans use that word (oriental) as a slur and built his
> political career on deleting it from the Washingtonian political language to
> a belly-laughter of all the rich Hongkongians across the border.
> If they were not pulling my leg, it was (and may be still is) illegal to use
> this word in any governmental a paper in the State of Washington! In the
> rest of 49 states including CA and NY its actually used all over on the
> state and federal level.
>
> Mike, what is wrong with occidental? I guess you would not be so picky if
> someone would tell you that you are one of the heirs of Occidental Petroleum
> inheritance? )))))))))
>
> How is being called "oikumenal" sounds to you?
>
> Sasha.
>
>
> "Michael Plant" > wrote in message
> ...
>> .
>>>> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
>>>> Asian in a "non-racial" way?
>>
>>> 1. You don't.
>>> 2. Asian.
>>> 3. What is wrong with "oriental"?
>>> Sasha.
>>
>> Just don't start calling me occidental,
>> and you're OK in my book.
>>
>> In answer to the OP's Q, perhaps you might
>> say, "Regardless of your race, which I of
>> course respect, stop calling everything Asian
>> "oriental" because I DON'T LIKE IT!" or
>> something like that.
>>
>> Michael
>> (Just don't call me late for dinner!)
>>
>
>

1/4/07


>
> Dear Michael-I try to use the word with care in it's proper setting. I
> think we all can tell if it is being used as a slur or not. Our best
> judgement should prevail...That goes for all racist terms and pc
> correctness...(my pc in my nickname is not on pc of politics, but
> rather obsessive complusive pu erh) which I am try to treat every
> day...I am using Pu-erh tea as the treatment..ocp

I'm proud of you. You have added to the many
uses of our tea. Don't forget to cite the post you
refer to, which you didn't above. Also, and this
is my important point, at least to me, we *cannot*
all tell anything. Culture and its baggage get in
the way. Nothing is as obvious to the listener as
the speaker thinks it is.

Talk about pontificating, would somebody revoke
my usenet license before I post again!

Thanks.

Michael

tea-obsession wrote:
> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
> Asian in a "non-racial" way?

If they are Chinese, call them Chinese. If they are Japanese, call
them Japanese. You can never go wrong this way.

wrote:
> On 3 Jan 2007 18:06:08 -0800, "tea-obsession" >
> wrote:
>
> >How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
> >Asian in a "non-racial" way?
>
> Orient means east. To be oriented means to know where the east is.
> Someone from the east is an oriental. So what's the issue?
>
> Bubba

Definition by Merriam Webster:
Main Entry: ori·en·tal
Pronunciation: "or-E-'en-t&l
Function: adjective
1 often capitalized : of, relating to, or situated in Asia
2 a : of superior grade, luster, or value b : being corundum or
sapphire but simulating another gem in color
3 often capitalized, sometimes offensive : ASIAN
4 capitalized : of, relating to, or constituting the biogeographic
region that includes Asia south and southeast of the Himalayas and the
Malay Archipelago west of Wallace's line

wrote:
> On 3 Jan 2007 18:06:08 -0800, "tea-obsession" >
> wrote:
>
> >How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
> >Asian in a "non-racial" way?
>
> Orient means east. To be oriented means to know where the east is.
> Someone from the east is an oriental. So what's the issue?
>
> Bubba

Definition by Merriam Webster:
Main Entry: ori·en·tal
Pronunciation: "or-E-'en-t&l
Function: adjective
1 often capitalized : of, relating to, or situated in Asia
2 a : of superior grade, luster, or value b : being corundum or
sapphire but simulating another gem in color
3 often capitalized, sometimes offensive : ASIAN
4 capitalized : of, relating to, or constituting the biogeographic
region that includes Asia south and southeast of the Himalayas and the
Malay Archipelago west of Wallace's line

"Dominic T." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
snip

God forbid if everyone were truly just allowed to be
> considered equal like they would prefer

snip
> - Dominic
>

Ah but that's the problem Dominic. People don't prefer to be equal. They
prefer to have someone or something to point to to say "I'm better than that
[race, nationality, religion, color, person who prefers coffee to
tea-gasp!]. In other words, while I think politicians use a lot of
underhanded things including divisive measures to attain or keep power, I
believe that even were we all leaderless, there would rise up a group that
would discriminate against another group. If everyone got along...well,
everyone would get along. How's that for profound, I think I need a cuppa
something......


Melinda

"Mydnight" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> tea-obsession wrote:
>> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
>> Asian in a "non-racial" way?
>
> If they are Chinese, call them Chinese. If they are Japanese, call
> them Japanese. You can never go wrong this way.
>

I agree with this, I do a lot of cooking of various cuisines from southeast
Asia and east Asia, and I (think I) know the difference between (some) sweet
and sour Vietnamese and sweet and sour Thai. It is obvious when I go into,
say, a store that's Korean and ask for something that apparently isn't a
Korean ingredient (I got a talking to once when I did this, yes it was
embarrassing and I thought it was a little heavy-handed but it got the point
across). But since I do wish to study these cuisines in detail and
"authentically" than I know I have to find x ingredient to be correct in my
making of a dish. There's a big difference between Japanese picked radish
and Chinese pickled radish, you know? . There are a lot of supposedly
pan-asian stores out there but when I go in I can generally tell what
direction a store leans to more, and usually it's more focused on whoever
the main community in the area of the store is. Unless it's directed at
non-asian americans, who may just be looking for ingredients that are not
extremely specialized (to them) like sushi rice or something.

It takes a lot of learning though...how does one say "do you have gai lan"
in four different languages...or more importantly, how does one say Thank
You.


Melinda

tea-obsession wrote:
> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
> Asian in a "non-racial" way?

My understanding is that the problem with the word "oriental" is that
it reeks of a period of colonial imperialism... Academics avoid the
word to show they do not look back fondly on that enterprise.

The problem, it seems, is that even in a group like rec.food.drink.tea,
nobody is aware of this nuance

Melinda wrote:
> Ah but that's the problem Dominic. People don't prefer to be equal. They
> prefer to have someone or something to point to to say "I'm better than that
> [race, nationality, religion, color, person who prefers coffee to
> tea-gasp!]. In other words, while I think politicians use a lot of
> underhanded things including divisive measures to attain or keep power, I
> believe that even were we all leaderless, there would rise up a group that
> would discriminate against another group. If everyone got along...well,
> everyone would get along. How's that for profound, I think I need a cuppa
> something......
>
>
> Melinda

Oh, I agree, that's human nature to make order out of chaos, status and
to conquer... but that type of division is much different, like
Ireland. It doesn't fall into nice cookie cutter molds of black/white
or ***/straight it is based on much more deeper and complex systems and
hierarchies.

But with a government in place, there is order, and there is actually
no reason to divide along imaginary boundaries of distinction except to
further an agenda. There have been much worse atrocities than slavery,
say Nazi Germany/Jews. But because there is no government supporting or
benefitting from a continued rift Jews and Germans live happily in
coexistence. But slavery gets so overly used and abused by politicians
and keeps the fires raging still to this day, if it weren't for that
the issue would be long over or at least so minimized it would not be
the hot button all these years later. Black "leaders" are just as much
to blame, people like Jessie Jackson and the rest who have no actual
authority but stir the pot and keep it going to keep lining their own
pockets and claim they are "helping."

This plus political correctness has made this nation soft and turn on
itself weakening a once strong nation. We have Repub/Dem battles,
black/white, ***/straight, etc. etc. to the point that we are crumbling
upon ourselves with no one to blame but ourselves. The only "winners"
are the media and politicians and they perpetuate these issues to keep
their coffers full at any expense. It will catch up with us in America,
and the seeds are sown for this next generation to have the fun
experience of "reaping" the rewards or lack thereof.

Sorry to go off on a tangent (I always do, no need to disappoint It
is a sore spot with me, and I have many "Asian" friends Chinese,
Japanese, and Korean and never would any of them young or old care if
you said Oriental or Asian. Because they are down-to-earth people not
caught up in PC bullshit.

- Dominic

"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
> Sasha, while I immensely enjoyed your informative post,
> and while I personally dispize the whole concept of political
> correctness as being the point at which the fascist right and
> left comingle, dare I say that you are joking when you ask
> me what I might have against the word "occidental' when
> when used to refer to my humble self?
>
> The African American community -- is that OK to say? --
> went through quite a series of designations, watching each
> fall out of favor by turns. This linguistic history need not
> be explicated here.
>
> Michael
>


Michael -

I think my "deep" understanding of English is not deep enough in this case.
I still honestly do not understand what you find wrong with "occidental".
Let us decide it between ourselves that since you live in NY, i.e.to the
east of me and I - to the west of you, I will be your occidental friend and
you - my oriental?

Me - when I hear an intentional slur, I pity the sayer more than I pity the
sayee. Being half-Jewish, half - Moslem from former Russian nobility in
communist USSR and then being "Russian" here in America there is not a
country above 60 deg. North lattitude to which I was not emphatically sent
"back" verbally at one time in my life or another.
The funniest one was several years ago when I went outside of my office
building to have a smoke and was confromted by a surprisingly nervous
gentlemen who did not like the smell of my pipe tobacco. In a few seconds
the smell of my tobacco was connected to the place of my origin and I was
recommended to return there ASAP with quite elaborate linguistic
arrangements.
Later I learned the reason for his nervousness - when he knocked on my door
half an hour later to be interviewed for a job in my company. I wished he
was as aggressive intellectually as he was racially. I would have hired him.
I enjoy heat and sparkles at work - makes the atmosphere sharper. And I have
nothing against a racist with good ideas in math and genetics who would make
me rich - I would actually greatly enjoy the irony ))

Sasha.

"Mydnight" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> tea-obsession wrote:
>> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
>> Asian in a "non-racial" way?
>
> If they are Chinese, call them Chinese. If they are Japanese, call
> them Japanese. You can never go wrong this way.
>

You cannot be serious! This involves occasional mixing up and that I will
recommend not!
Sometimes I think the word "oriental" main usefulness is to avoid the exact
determination if the person is Chinese or Japanese or Korean.
And although most of them claim that they can easily distinguish between
oriental race groups, I have seen many a mistakes made by them among
themselves, let alone us, poor occidentals!! ))))))))))))))

Sasha.

"Thitherflit" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> tea-obsession wrote:
>> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
>> Asian in a "non-racial" way?
>
> My understanding is that the problem with the word "oriental" is that
> it reeks of a period of colonial imperialism... Academics avoid the
> word to show they do not look back fondly on that enterprise.
>
> The problem, it seems, is that even in a group like rec.food.drink.tea,
> nobody is aware of this nuance
>

Being "aware" of every PC game our esteemed
"peer-review-me -and-I -will-peer-review-U" wizards wish to call "nuance"
and actually taking this childish game seriously are two different things.
The word "oriental" could be accused of eurocentrism (you live east of ME,
so you are an "easterner"), if the word "west, western" would not be used as
often. The concept of East-West without some "Center" seem quite just for
both sides and I have never heard much of complains about it. Even the
Chinese Emperors would not object judging from their place in the center of
the "Central Empire".

Certainly that shell not prevent someone in the field of the political
science to invent this dissatisfaction and make it his/her dissertation
thesis, since this is so much easier than say, learn Arabic or Pushtu and
actually stand up to neocons and neofascists that found such an easy way in
the absence of the honest academic discussion into the decision making
corridors of Washington..
THAT, accidentally, would be a very occidental thing to do!

Sasha.

tea-obsession wrote:
> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
> Asian in a "non-racial" way?
>

There's a story about a Japanese scientist at an American chemistry
conference walking around looking confused. Someone helpfully asked if
he'd like to be taken to the orientation desk. His reply: "I didn't come
here to get oriented; I came to be occidized."

"DogMa" > wrote in message
...
> tea-obsession wrote:
>> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
>> Asian in a "non-racial" way?
>>
>
> There's a story about a Japanese scientist at an American chemistry
> conference walking around looking confused. Someone helpfully asked if
> he'd like to be taken to the orientation desk. His reply: "I didn't come
> here to get oriented; I came to be occidized."


LMAO!!! That's so chem nerdy...that's great!!!


Melinda

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
> "Mydnight" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > tea-obsession wrote:
> >> How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
> >> Asian in a "non-racial" way?
> >
> > If they are Chinese, call them Chinese. If they are Japanese, call
> > them Japanese. You can never go wrong this way.
> >
>
> You cannot be serious! This involves occasional mixing up and that I will
> recommend not!
> Sometimes I think the word "oriental" main usefulness is to avoid the exact
> determination if the person is Chinese or Japanese or Korean.
> And although most of them claim that they can easily distinguish between
> oriental race groups, I have seen many a mistakes made by them among
> themselves, let alone us, poor occidentals!! ))))))))))))))

Well, if I am meeting with someone face-to-face, I will usually ask
them where they are from. Then, if I have to refer to them by
nationality, which is something that seldom happens unless I am telling
others, I will call them by their nationality. I assume nothing.

Oriental always sounded like something used to describe a thing and not
a person, so I usually stick with just "Asian".

Melinda:

Talking about dishes. It can get really specific in China. For
instance, they eat pickled turnips in Sichuan that taste different from
say Hunan or other places where they may not eat that at all. How do
you make such distinction? Ask.

>
> Michael -
>
> I think my "deep" understanding of English is not deep enough in this case.
> I still honestly do not understand what you find wrong with "occidental".
> Let us decide it between ourselves that since you live in NY, i.e.to the
> east of me and I - to the west of you, I will be your occidental friend and
> you - my oriental.

OK Sasha, in truth it was a joke! Since nobody around
here uses the phrase "occidental" other than to juxtapose
it to "oriental" it was meant to say I don't give a rat's ass,
(a tinker's dam, a wit, a bit, at all) about whether you call
me occidental. The main point I wanted to raise was in the
phrase, "Just don't call me late for dinner," which means
that I don't care what you call me. Your discussion of
derrogatory terms in terms of the intent of the sender and
the reception of the receiver put it well.

In the context of the paragrah above, when you questioned
my use of the term occidental and asked what problem I had
with it, I didn't know whether you were continuing the joke.
Thus the confused set of responses. Language is nothing if
not entertaining.

> Me - when I hear an intentional slur, I pity the sayer more than I pity the
> sayee. Being half-Jewish, half - Moslem from former Russian nobility in
> communist USSR and then being "Russian" here in America there is not a
> country above 60 deg. North lattitude to which I was not emphatically sent
> "back" verbally at one time in my life or another.
> The funniest one was several years ago when I went outside of my office
> building to have a smoke and was confromted by a surprisingly nervous
> gentlemen who did not like the smell of my pipe tobacco. In a few seconds
> the smell of my tobacco was connected to the place of my origin and I was
> recommended to return there ASAP with quite elaborate linguistic
> arrangements.
> Later I learned the reason for his nervousness - when he knocked on my door
> half an hour later to be interviewed for a job in my company. I wished he
> was as aggressive intellectually as he was racially. I would have hired him.
> I enjoy heat and sparkles at work - makes the atmosphere sharper. And I have
> nothing against a racist with good ideas in math and genetics who would make
> me rich - I would actually greatly enjoy the irony ))

Half Moslem, eh? Tell us more.

Michael, The Oriental, albeit slightly disoriented
(Don't say disorientated, it hurts my ears.)

[Thitherflit wrote:]

> My understanding is that the problem with the word "oriental" is that
> it reeks of a period of colonial imperialism... Academics avoid the
> word to show they do not look back fondly on that enterprise.

We have a whole "Oriental Studies" department here, as I'm sure is
common in many universities. Predictably enough, it's jam-packed with
academics, most of whom have the word "oriental" on their business
cards. No avoidance.


Toodlepip,

Hobbes

On Jan 4, 7:05 pm, "Alex Chaihorsky" > wrote:
> "Michael Plant" > wrote in ...
>
> > Sasha, while I immensely enjoyed your informative post,
> > and while I personally dispize the whole concept of political
> > correctness as being the point at which the fascist right and
> > left comingle, dare I say that you are joking when you ask
> > me what I might have against the word "occidental' when
> > when used to refer to my humble self?
>
> > The African American community -- is that OK to say? --
> > went through quite a series of designations, watching each
> > fall out of favor by turns. This linguistic history need not
> > be explicated here.
>
> > MichaelMichael -
>
> I think my "deep" understanding of English is not deep enough in this case.
> I still honestly do not understand what you find wrong with "occidental".
> Let us decide it between ourselves that since you live in NY, i.e.to the
> east of me and I - to the west of you, I will be your occidental friend and
> you - my oriental?
>
> Me - when I hear an intentional slur, I pity the sayer more than I pity the
> sayee. Being half-Jewish, half - Moslem from former Russian nobility in
> communist USSR and then being "Russian" here in America there is not a
> country above 60 deg. North lattitude to which I was not emphatically sent
> "back" verbally at one time in my life or another.
> The funniest one was several years ago when I went outside of my office
> building to have a smoke and was confromted by a surprisingly nervous
> gentlemen who did not like the smell of my pipe tobacco. In a few seconds
> the smell of my tobacco was connected to the place of my origin and I was
> recommended to return there ASAP with quite elaborate linguistic
> arrangements.
> Later I learned the reason for his nervousness - when he knocked on my door
> half an hour later to be interviewed for a job in my company. I wished he
> was as aggressive intellectually as he was racially. I would have hired him.
> I enjoy heat and sparkles at work - makes the atmosphere sharper. And I have
> nothing against a racist with good ideas in math and genetics who would make
> me rich - I would actually greatly enjoy the irony ))
>
> Sasha.

Sasha, this is totally off-topic, but I'd love to know what kind of
pipe tobacco you smoke and what nationality it's associated with in
Russia. I've observed a similar effect (minus the acrimony) in China
when I smoked Zhongnanhai brand cigarettes in the southwest. Everyone
instantly knew that I was a cosmopolitan Beijinger, rather than a
Baisha-smoking local dirt dumpling.

Alex
drinking XZH LBZ that I cold-water steeped overnight

Michael,

I got the witticism. Those predisposed to Dialectics probably
wouldn't. Just don't call me late for tea.

JIm

Michael Plant wrote:
> OK Sasha, in truth it was a joke! Since nobody around
> here uses the phrase "occidental" other than to juxtapose
> it to "oriental" it was meant to say I don't give a rat's ass,
> (a tinker's dam, a wit, a bit, at all) about whether you call
> me occidental. The main point I wanted to raise was in the
> phrase, "Just don't call me late for dinner," which means
> that I don't care what you call me. Your discussion of
> derrogatory terms in terms of the intent of the sender and
> the reception of the receiver put it well.

I know some Bostonians who might be surprised. Toci
wrote:
> On 3 Jan 2007 18:06:08 -0800, "tea-obsession" >
> wrote:
>
> >How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
> >Asian in a "non-racial" way?
>
> Orient means east. To be oriented means to know where the east is.
> Someone from the east is an oriental. So what's the issue?
>
> Bubba

East of me, West of you...this is irrefutable evidence that we live on
a flat earth with the sun circling around us.

Phyll

toci wrote:
> I know some Bostonians who might be surprised. Toci
> wrote:
> > On 3 Jan 2007 18:06:08 -0800, "tea-obsession" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
> > >Asian in a "non-racial" way?
> >
> > Orient means east. To be oriented means to know where the east is.
> > Someone from the east is an oriental. So what's the issue?
> >
> > Bubba

>>Half Moslem, eh? Tell us more.

>>Michael, The Oriental, albeit slightly disoriented


> Sasha, this is totally off-topic, but I'd love to know what kind of
> pipe tobacco you smoke and what nationality it's associated with in
> Russia. I've observed a similar effect (minus the acrimony) in China
> when I smoked Zhongnanhai brand cigarettes in the southwest. Everyone
> instantly knew that I was a cosmopolitan Beijinger, rather than a
> Baisha-smoking local dirt dumpling.
>
> Alex
> drinking XZH LBZ that I cold-water steeped overnight
>

My ancestors from my Dad side were big Moslem landlords living in South
Caucasus with land ownership in Shusha, lake Sevan (Nur-Bayazet, now the
town of Kamo), Shemakha and other regions, including some oil properties in
and around Baku.
Some of their lands are now in Azerbaijan, some in Armenia, that was all
just provinces of Russian Empire before 1917. Caucasian Turkic Moslems never
really called themselves Azeris. Before Stalin, Azerbaijan was mostly just a
geographical name, but I guess now most of my relatives that still live
there call themselves Azeris.
My last name is of Turkic origin - Chaihor - is a someone who is crazy about
tea (so we are not entirely off-topic ))))))
The ending -sky was added after my ggg-dad was exiled by tsar Alexander the
II to Poland for liberalism.
There was a whole bunch of Caucasian noblemen who were exiled and they all
came back with Polish ending to their last names as a sign of libertarian
dissent, I guess. Thus how Khans of Baku, Shemakha, etc. became "Bakinsky,
Shemakhinsky..."

Believe it or not - I smoke Black Russian from Tinderbox.
http://www.tinderboxinternational.com/p7.htm
I am really not a type of guy who wraps himself in an old country flag at
all, but the owner of the shop not even knowing who I was told me that this
was his favorite and I liked it very much. It has a very strong aroma (some
people use the word stench) but I hardly smoke a pipe a week now, so its OK.

Sasha.

wrote:
> On 4 Jan 2007 13:32:14 -0800, "tea-obsession" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> wrote:
> >> On 3 Jan 2007 18:06:08 -0800, "tea-obsession" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >How do you correct someone using the term oriental to describe anything
> >> >Asian in a "non-racial" way?
> >>
> >> Orient means east. To be oriented means to know where the east is.
> >> Someone from the east is an oriental. So what's the issue?
> >>
> >> Bubba
> >
> >Definition by Merriam Webster:
> >
> Wow, you can use an on-line dictionary, include copywrited material in
> your article and then post the same message twice. Accidents happen.
> Orient still means east and occident means west. For example Venezuela
> has both an oriental and occidental coast. If you are going to be a
> philologist you need to be oriented.
>
> Bubba

Orient and Oriental are 2 different words and have more than 2
different meanings. Black and black mean 2 different things when used
in different context. Your assumptions are not so oriented.