Been drinking Chinese tea, particularly Pu-erh and Fijian Oolong for just
over 12 months now (and loving it!). I am now beginning to notice that I
need to put more leaf into my pot or gaiwan than I did when I started to
obtain the flavour I desire.

Is this the natural development of one's palate or is my tea degrading due
to storage ? My tea is stored in double-lidded stainless steel canisters
in what is a relatively stable (temp and humidity wise) environment. Our
consumption rate for our loose leaf Pu-erh, for example, is approx 750grams
over the last 12 months. I buy my loose leaf Pu-erh in 500gram lots. My
brewing times have stayed relatively consistent.

Right now I am drinking a Royal Grade B loose leaf Pu-erh I got from James
Banna and I am finding that I need to almost double the amount of leaf in my
200ml pot than I originally used to satisfy myself.

If ones palate does acclimatise to frequent tea drinking then this would
explain my experiences in Hong Kong recently. On our excursion around many
tea shops we found almost always that the amount of leaf the hosts used seem
overly excessive to us to the point where the teas (particularly Oolongs)
had a nasty bitter taste to my wife and I. Once at home we brewed the same
tea with what we felt was 'normal' amounts of leaf and found the teas to be
very good indeed.

Now I am beginning to wonder.

Any thoughts ?

Cheers
Mal
Oz

please read Fujian Oolong, not Fijian - silly spell checker !!


"Draconus" > wrote in message
...
>
> Been drinking Chinese tea, particularly Pu-erh and Fijian Oolong for just
> over 12 months now (and loving it!). I am now beginning to notice that I
> need to put more leaf into my pot or gaiwan than I did when I started to
> obtain the flavour I desire.
>
> Is this the natural development of one's palate or is my tea degrading due
> to storage ? My tea is stored in double-lidded stainless steel canisters
> in what is a relatively stable (temp and humidity wise) environment. Our
> consumption rate for our loose leaf Pu-erh, for example, is approx
> 750grams over the last 12 months. I buy my loose leaf Pu-erh in 500gram
> lots. My brewing times have stayed relatively consistent.
>
> Right now I am drinking a Royal Grade B loose leaf Pu-erh I got from James
> Banna and I am finding that I need to almost double the amount of leaf in
> my 200ml pot than I originally used to satisfy myself.
>
> If ones palate does acclimatise to frequent tea drinking then this would
> explain my experiences in Hong Kong recently. On our excursion around
> many tea shops we found almost always that the amount of leaf the hosts
> used seem overly excessive to us to the point where the teas (particularly
> Oolongs) had a nasty bitter taste to my wife and I. Once at home we
> brewed the same tea with what we felt was 'normal' amounts of leaf and
> found the teas to be very good indeed.
>
> Now I am beginning to wonder.
>
> Any thoughts ?
>
> Cheers
> Mal
> Oz
>
>
>
>

just wait until you start snorting fannings.

oo-er, is that legal ? ;-))


"Zarky Zork" > wrote in message
et...
> just wait until you start snorting fannings.
>
>
>

"Draconus" > wrote in newsg3qh.462$u8.285@news-
server.bigpond.net.au:

Only in the Netherlands and in the US state of West Virginia (I think the
state legistlators must have gotten confused on this one).

Ozzy

> oo-er, is that legal ? ;-))
>
>
> "Zarky Zork" > wrote in message
> et...
>> just wait until you start snorting fannings.
>>

I've been making my teas stronger these days to coat the throat and
warm the stomach. I use to think that taste was limited to the nose
and mouth.

Jim

Draconus wrote:
> Been drinking Chinese tea, particularly Pu-erh and Fijian Oolong for just
> over 12 months now (and loving it!). I am now beginning to notice that I
> need to put more leaf into my pot or gaiwan than I did when I started to
> obtain the flavour I desire.
>
> Is this the natural development of one's palate or is my tea degrading due
> to storage ? My tea is stored in double-lidded stainless steel canisters
> in what is a relatively stable (temp and humidity wise) environment. Our
> consumption rate for our loose leaf Pu-erh, for example, is approx 750grams
> over the last 12 months. I buy my loose leaf Pu-erh in 500gram lots. My
> brewing times have stayed relatively consistent.
>
> Right now I am drinking a Royal Grade B loose leaf Pu-erh I got from James
> Banna and I am finding that I need to almost double the amount of leaf in my
> 200ml pot than I originally used to satisfy myself.
>
> If ones palate does acclimatise to frequent tea drinking then this would
> explain my experiences in Hong Kong recently. On our excursion around many
> tea shops we found almost always that the amount of leaf the hosts used seem
> overly excessive to us to the point where the teas (particularly Oolongs)
> had a nasty bitter taste to my wife and I. Once at home we brewed the same
> tea with what we felt was 'normal' amounts of leaf and found the teas to be
> very good indeed.
>
> Now I am beginning to wonder.
>
> Any thoughts ?
>
> Cheers
> Mal
> Oz

Draconus wrote:
> Been drinking Chinese tea, particularly Pu-erh and Fijian Oolong for just
> over 12 months now (and loving it!). I am now beginning to notice that I
> need to put more leaf into my pot or gaiwan than I did when I started to
> obtain the flavour I desire.
>
> Is this the natural development of one's palate or is my tea degrading due
> to storage ?

Could be both. Although the Puerh generally wont degrade with age
unless it is over 30 years old or so. Now greens, whites, and even reds
to a lesser degree will all loose their essence over time, sometimes
very quickly. It is mainly blacks (the Chinese definition of black)
that actually improve over time rather than degrade.

On the hand your palate will also develop with time. Teas that I used
to consider too bitter to enjoy are now quite enjoyable, greens that I
used to think were bland are now quite flavorful.


> My tea is stored in double-lidded stainless steel canisters
> in what is a relatively stable (temp and humidity wise) environment. Our
> consumption rate for our loose leaf Pu-erh, for example, is approx 750grams
> over the last 12 months. I buy my loose leaf Pu-erh in 500gram lots. My
> brewing times have stayed relatively consistent.

Again, loose puerh doesnt even need the precautions you are taking.
Most puerhs benefit from being stored in breathable containers rather
than airtight etc.

> Right now I am drinking a Royal Grade B loose leaf Pu-erh I got from James
> Banna and I am finding that I need to almost double the amount of leaf in my
> 200ml pot than I originally used to satisfy myself.

This sounds like a palate evolution to me. My taste in black puerh
changed very similarly. I now drink my cooked puerhs very styrong in
comparison to what I started out with. Assuming of course that we are
talking about the exact same shipment. If it was two different
shipments there is a high likliehood that the two teas came from
different batches which could easily have differed in perceived flavor.


Sounds rather normal to me.....
Might be time to start experimenting with raw puerhs, again, a normal
evolution.....

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net

Mike 1/16/07


>
> Draconus wrote:
>> Been drinking Chinese tea, particularly Pu-erh and Fijian Oolong for just
>> over 12 months now (and loving it!). I am now beginning to notice that I
>> need to put more leaf into my pot or gaiwan than I did when I started to
>> obtain the flavour I desire.
>>
>> Is this the natural development of one's palate or is my tea degrading due
>> to storage ?
>
> Could be both. Although the Puerh generally wont degrade with age
> unless it is over 30 years old or so.

Bite your tongue, boy!

> Now greens, whites, and even reds
> to a lesser degree will all loose their essence over time, sometimes
> very quickly. It is mainly blacks (the Chinese definition of black)
> that actually improve over time rather than degrade.

To which we ought to add a properly roasted
Oolong from WuYi which will improve with
some age on it as witnessed by Jenn who
found a 2006 Bai Ji Guan wanting compared
to a 2005, a sentiment with which I totally
agree having tried both teas. If Jenn refers
to The Tea Gallery (NYC) BJG's, the 2006
is nice enough, but the 2005 is richer and
more nuanced, perhaps for the additonal
year, and perhaps 2005 was just a better
year, an idea that has wide circulation.Some
say that a well roasted Phoenix Mt. Oolong
will also enjoy some months stashed away.
In any event, a well roasted tea of most any
sort shouldn't be drunk immediately because
the roast quality will overpower and needs
resting time.

> On the hand your palate will also develop with time. Teas that I used
> to consider too bitter to enjoy are now quite enjoyable, greens that I
> used to think were bland are now quite flavorful.

No, not necessarily. I have proof. I am proof.

>> My tea is stored in double-lidded stainless steel canisters
>> in what is a relatively stable (temp and humidity wise) environment. Our
>> consumption rate for our loose leaf Pu-erh, for example, is approx 750grams
>> over the last 12 months. I buy my loose leaf Pu-erh in 500gram lots. My
>> brewing times have stayed relatively consistent.
>
> Again, loose puerh doesn't even need the precautions you are taking.
> Most puerhs benefit from being stored in breathable containers rather
> than airtight etc.
>
>> Right now I am drinking a Royal Grade B loose leaf Pu-erh I got from James
>> Banna and I am finding that I need to almost double the amount of leaf in my
>> 200ml pot than I originally used to satisfy myself.
>
> This sounds like a palate evolution to me. My taste in black puerh
> changed very similarly. I now drink my cooked puerhs very styrong in
> comparison to what I started out with. Assuming of course that we are
> talking about the exact same shipment. If it was two different
> shipments there is a high likliehood that the two teas came from
> different batches which could easily have differed in perceived flavor.

There are all kinds of balances to be struck.
Perhaps Oz is heading swiftly toward a
full Gung Fu frenzy. Personally, I don't see
demand for more Pu-erh leaf as a palate
development unless he were using too little
leaf to begin with.

> Sounds rather normal to me.....
> Might be time to start experimenting with raw puerhs, again, a normal
> evolution.....

Aha, your tastes ripen as you move to the raw.
But, as your tastes develop toward richer and
richer Pu'erhs, you will have to swim with the
sharks, of which there is no scarcity. You'll
see them swimming around Taiwan, Hong Kong,
and of late New York City. Tulip bulbs, anyone?

Michael

"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
> Mike 1/16/07
>

<Snip>
> There are all kinds of balances to be struck.
> Perhaps Oz is heading swiftly toward a
> full Gung Fu frenzy. Personally, I don't see
> demand for more Pu-erh leaf as a palate
> development unless he were using too little
> leaf to begin with.
<snip>

.... was quite possibly using less leaf than I ought to when we first
started - the concept of 'keep trying the tea till I got it right' was still
a little hard to swallow (no pun intended) when we looked at the money we
had initially spent on the stuff. Now of course with our slightly more
mature palates, this is no longer an issue.

I do prefer using my pots rather than the Gaiwan - I seem to be able to get
a better balance compared with my Gaiwan. The wife is the totally opposite.
She can brew a mean 30 year pu-erh in her gaiwan ! I use a Gaiwan at work
and even now struggle to get the same taste from a tea two days in a row - I
think I'm rushing the process while working.

Did any of you use scales to initially determine the correct amount of
leaf - or did you just wing it ? I don't think I want to start using a
scale all the time, but am wondering if I used one for a short period to
show me what 5g of leaf (for example) looks like, I might be a little more
consistent. Brewing time is consistent as I used a simple timer.

Cheers
Mal
Oz (sunny Perth actually)
1993 Menghai 7542 tonight after tea....

snipped much good stuff

> I use a Gaiwan at work
> and even now struggle to get the same taste from a tea two days in a row - I
> think I'm rushing the process while working.

Well, you can't really get the same result each time
because you're different, the environment is also
different, even the tea is different. You bring a
different self to the table each time, in a manner
of speaking, right? So, of course the tea will
surprise you every time. This is not to say that
we don't have good days and bad days. Just my
opinons.

> Did any of you use scales to initially determine the correct amount of
> leaf - or did you just wing it ? I don't think I want to start using a
> scale all the time, but am wondering if I used one for a short period to
> show me what 5g of leaf (for example) looks like, I might be a little more
> consistent. Brewing time is consistent as I used a simple timer.

I use a scale often enough, especially when the tea
is valuable and I have very little of it. At the least,
you might consider getting the feel of what 5g of
any given tea looks like by using a scale initially.
With Pu'erhs, you are steeping the same leaf many
times, so you vary the lengths of the steep in
accordance with the results you got and the results
you want. I scarcely think a timer will help, but
that's just another opinion of mine. I vote for the
occasional use of a scale, and lose the timer. By
the way, we're talking about time from instant,
five, ten, fifteen seconds, etc. So, a timer isn't
really practical.

Michael

"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
> snipped much good stuff
>
>> I use a Gaiwan at work
>> and even now struggle to get the same taste from a tea two days in a
>> row - I
>> think I'm rushing the process while working.
>
> Well, you can't really get the same result each time
> because you're different, the environment is also
> different, even the tea is different. You bring a
> different self to the table each time, in a manner
> of speaking, right? So, of course the tea will
> surprise you every time. This is not to say that
> we don't have good days and bad days. Just my
> opinons.
>
Your opinion is always respected Michael. Yes I suppose you are right about
bringing a different self - I also suppose determined somewhat by the day
you have had, your mood, whether you are focused on the tea or that
colleague banging on the door !

>> Did any of you use scales to initially determine the correct amount of
>> leaf - or did you just wing it ? I don't think I want to start using a
>> scale all the time, but am wondering if I used one for a short period to
>> show me what 5g of leaf (for example) looks like, I might be a little
>> more
>> consistent. Brewing time is consistent as I used a simple timer.
>
> I use a scale often enough, especially when the tea
> is valuable and I have very little of it. At the least,
> you might consider getting the feel of what 5g of
> any given tea looks like by using a scale initially.
> With Pu'erhs, you are steeping the same leaf many
> times, so you vary the lengths of the steep in
> accordance with the results you got and the results
> you want. I scarcely think a timer will help, but
> that's just another opinion of mine. I vote for the
> occasional use of a scale, and lose the timer. By
> the way, we're talking about time from instant,
> five, ten, fifteen seconds, etc. So, a timer isn't
> really practical.
>
I find I loose focus on the brew time at work if I don't use a timer. I
pre-determine the brew time (in seconds) then set the count-down timer
accordingly - when it beeps it reminds me to pour the tea. Too many 8
minute brews under the bridge to not use the timer I'm afraid!
Incidentally, my wife uses the timer on the microwave oven when she uses the
Gaiwan; presets it, pours water over the leaves then whacks the start
button - seems to work for her. But I do take your point, would rather do
all this using instinct and ones own senses - I am hoping this will come
with time.

I'm warming towards the scale idea then at least until my instincts are more
well honed.

Must go for now, my turn for tea, then bed !

Cheers
Mal
Oz

> Michael
>
>