Whenever I give my 1st flush DJ's like Makaibari's to my family or
guests (who are expecting something really really out of this world,
given the cost and trouble I go through to get these.. vs buying Green
Label at the local Indian store).. they remark that the tea feels "weak"
and has no "liquor" (or color), even though they like the flavor.

So, given that the teas that produce stronger color have finer leaf
(like CTC), what if I crush (but not powder) my DJ's? Will that produce
a better blend of falvor AND color? Probably, as I notice that the more
fine leaves at the bottom of the packets if the 1st flush DJ's also
produces a few brews of more color and body.

[Yeah, I can hear people say .. Why don't you try and find out? But I
wanted to see why others haven't though of doing this before].

Actually, some people brewing the Chinese gongfu method do crush some
of their leaves.

Try this: crush some only, and not all. Let most of what you use be
whole leaves and crush the smaller ones with your hand (or collect the
bottom-of-the-packet leaves). Place the crushed leaves on the bottom
of your teapot and then place the whole leaves on top. Then pour your
hot water very gently so as not to disturb and stir the leaves too
much when pouring.

my 2 rupee

On Mar 30, 6:53 pm, Aloke Prasad >
wrote:
> Whenever I give my 1st flush DJ's like Makaibari's to my family or
> guests (who are expecting something really really out of this world,
> given the cost and trouble I go through to get these.. vs buying Green
> Label at the local Indian store).. they remark that the tea feels "weak"
> and has no "liquor" (or color), even though they like the flavor.
>
> So, given that the teas that produce stronger color have finer leaf
> (like CTC), what if I crush (but not powder) my DJ's? Will that produce
> a better blend of falvor AND color? Probably, as I notice that the more
> fine leaves at the bottom of the packets if the 1st flush DJ's also
> produces a few brews of more color and body.
>
> [Yeah, I can hear people say .. Why don't you try and find out? But I
> wanted to see why others haven't though of doing this before].

Commercial Darjeelings are much stronger and more robust than estate
Darjeeling flushes. The CTC grade are lumps of coal. They meet the
definition of fully oxidized black Darjeeling. Estate flushes are
oolong in oxidation making them more mild. If you want a stronger
estate Darjeeling you add more tea. Crushing won't help. My
suggestion brew the flush longer.

Jim

On Mar 30, 6:53 pm, Aloke Prasad >
wrote:
> Whenever I give my 1st flush DJ's like Makaibari's to my family or
> guests (who are expecting something really really out of this world,
> given the cost and trouble I go through to get these.. vs buying Green
> Label at the local Indian store).. they remark that the tea feels "weak"
> and has no "liquor" (or color), even though they like the flavor.
>
> So, given that the teas that produce stronger color have finer leaf
> (like CTC), what if I crush (but not powder) my DJ's? Will that produce
> a better blend of falvor AND color? Probably, as I notice that the more
> fine leaves at the bottom of the packets if the 1st flush DJ's also
> produces a few brews of more color and body.
>
> [Yeah, I can hear people say .. Why don't you try and find out? But I
> wanted to see why others haven't though of doing this before].

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Commercial Darjeelings are much stronger and more robust than estate
> Darjeeling flushes. The CTC grade are lumps of coal. They meet the
> definition of fully oxidized black Darjeeling. Estate flushes are
> oolong in oxidation making them more mild. If you want a stronger
> estate Darjeeling you add more tea. Crushing won't help. My
> suggestion brew the flush longer.
>
> Jim
>


I thought CTC only existed in Assam and some Kenyan teas?

Melinda

I think Lipton's Green Label is CTC. I drink their Connoisseur
version which is BOP. Assam is often CTC because it is the base tea
for Chai. I don't remember any Kenya tea being CTC. Ceylon
commercial teas are often CTC. I see someone else shouting Darjeeling
is Orthodox. Okay it doesn't do any good to crush fines.

Jim

On Mar 31, 2:29 pm, "Melinda" > wrote:
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > Commercial Darjeelings are much stronger and more robust than estate
> > Darjeeling flushes. The CTC grade are lumps of coal. They meet the
> > definition of fully oxidized black Darjeeling. Estate flushes are
> > oolong in oxidation making them more mild. If you want a stronger
> > estate Darjeeling you add more tea. Crushing won't help. My
> > suggestion brew the flush longer.
>
> > Jim
>
> I thought CTC only existed in Assam and some Kenyan teas?
>
> Melinda

Few green teas are CTC - the process produces a very harsh liquor on
green teas.

Assams (North Indian teas) are in fact 91% made by CTC. Kenyans are
98.5% CTC (just Mimima and Kangaita have orthodox lines). Sri Lanka
is only 6% CTC. As a percentage of global black tea production (ITC
data 2003) CTC manufacture is 60.2%. This proportion climbed from 40%
in early 80's but has been stable for the last decade.

Crushing made tea is generally a bad thing to do - matcha excepted
(which nowadays is crygenically ground on the mass scale, or granite
stone ground under controlled temperature conditions for artisanal
matcha). But, for white tea at least, crushing will darken the liquor
color. I have not investigated why and as it coarsens the liquor and
imparts bitterness too I doubt its a good route to go.

Nigel at Teacraft

On Apr 2, 2:45 pm, "Space Cowboy" > wrote:
> I think Lipton's Green Label is CTC. I drink their Connoisseur
> version which is BOP. Assam is often CTC because it is the base tea
> for Chai. I don't remember any Kenya tea being CTC. Ceylon
> commercial teas are often CTC. I see someone else shouting Darjeeling
> is Orthodox. Okay it doesn't do any good to crush fines.
>
> Jim
>
> On Mar 31, 2:29 pm, "Melinda" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>
> roups.com...
>
> > > Commercial Darjeelings are much stronger and more robust than estate
> > > Darjeeling flushes. The CTC grade are lumps of coal. They meet the
> > > definition of fully oxidized black Darjeeling. Estate flushes are
> > > oolong in oxidation making them more mild. If you want a stronger
> > > estate Darjeeling you add more tea. Crushing won't help. My
> > > suggestion brew the flush longer.
>
> > > Jim
>
> > I thought CTC only existed in Assam and some Kenyan teas?
>
> > Melinda- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Lipton Green label is definitely not CTC. It is leaf and very
consistently blended for those who want decent DJ without too much
effort. It is close to 2nd and 3rd flush DJ's. Connoisseur is good to
(they are almost the same to me).

Isn't Connoisseur made by Brooke Bond? It has been a while since I used
these products..

Space Cowboy wrote:
> I think Lipton's Green Label is CTC. I drink their Connoisseur
> version which is BOP. Assam is often CTC because it is the base tea
> for Chai. I don't remember any Kenya tea being CTC. Ceylon
> commercial teas are often CTC. I see someone else shouting Darjeeling
> is Orthodox. Okay it doesn't do any good to crush fines.
>
> Jim
>
> On Mar 31, 2:29 pm, "Melinda" > wrote:
>> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...
>>
>>> Commercial Darjeelings are much stronger and more robust than estate
>>> Darjeeling flushes. The CTC grade are lumps of coal. They meet the
>>> definition of fully oxidized black Darjeeling. Estate flushes are
>>> oolong in oxidation making them more mild. If you want a stronger
>>> estate Darjeeling you add more tea. Crushing won't help. My
>>> suggestion brew the flush longer.
>>> Jim
>> I thought CTC only existed in Assam and some Kenyan teas?
>>
>> Melinda
>
>

In the future I'll make a note of which commercial DJ are CTC and stop
guessing. Lipton makes Connoisseur which is my favorite commercial
DJ. BB has a good version but hard to find. My local tea shoppe
carries the major estates which my wife likes. My local tea shoppe
opened in it's new digs. The cafe is more prominent with expanded
menu. I bought some Snow Buds from Zheijiang. It's the first green I
thought had a creamy finish. Also recently I bought some White Monkey
King Green. The owner is starting to sell the less known Chinese teas
that are available through retail.

Jim

On Apr 3, 5:15 pm, Aloke Prasad >
wrote:
> Lipton Green label is definitely not CTC. It is leaf and very
> consistently blended for those who want decent DJ without too much
> effort. It is close to 2nd and 3rd flush DJ's. Connoisseur is good to
> (they are almost the same to me).
>
> Isn't Connoisseur made by Brooke Bond? It has been a while since I used
> these products..
>
>
>
> Space Cowboy wrote:
> > I think Lipton's Green Label is CTC. I drink their Connoisseur
> > version which is BOP. Assam is often CTC because it is the base tea
> > for Chai. I don't remember any Kenya tea being CTC. Ceylon
> > commercial teas are often CTC. I see someone else shouting Darjeeling
> > is Orthodox. Okay it doesn't do any good to crush fines.
>
> > Jim

Darjeeling produces 11.5 million kilos of tea - Approx. - 1.2% of the
total tea production of India.

89 gardens in total produce darjeeling tea.

Darjeeling " DOES NOT PRODUCE ANY CTC TEAS"

If you want a stronger darjeeling instead of crushing the nice Whole
Leaf grade buy the broken or fanings grade - these are available at
1/3 the price of the whole leaf tea and will give you a nice strong
cup.

Do not crush your fine tea - its utter wastage of fine tea through
incompetent manipulation!

If you really wanna get the best darjeeling from any vendor ask him if
he is selling a certified darjeeling.

The tea board of India issue a licence alongwith a number and inspects
all teas that the vendor buys from the country. These Darjeelings are
orignal - of the best quality called Certified Darjeelings.

www.lotusteahouse.com ----- is one of the vendors who has this
license in the USA.

Have a nice day!

Ankit Lochan
www.lochantea.com
www.doketea.com

On Apr 1, 10:35 pm, "Ankit Lochan" > wrote:
> Do not crush your fine tea - its utter wastage of fine tea through
> incompetent manipulation!

Matcha producers must be nuts! :-D

Phyll

On Apr 1, 10:35 pm, "Ankit Lochan" > wrote:
> Darjeeling produces 11.5 million kilos of tea - Approx. - 1.2% of the
> total tea production of India.
>
> 89 gardens in total produce darjeeling tea.
>
> Darjeeling " DOES NOT PRODUCE ANY CTC TEAS"
>
> If you want a stronger darjeeling instead of crushing the nice Whole
> Leaf grade buy the broken or fanings grade - these are available at
> 1/3 the price of the whole leaf tea and will give you a nice strong
> cup.
>
> Do not crush your fine tea - its utter wastage of fine tea through
> incompetent manipulation!
>
> If you really wanna get the best darjeeling from any vendor ask him if
> he is selling a certified darjeeling.
>
> The tea board of India issue a licence alongwith a number and inspects
> all teas that the vendor buys from the country. These Darjeelings are
> orignal - of the best quality called Certified Darjeelings.
>
> www.lotusteahouse.com----- is one of the vendors who has this
> license in the USA.
>
> Have a nice day!
>
> Ankit Lochanwww.lochantea.comwww.doketea.com

On Apr 2, 11:21 pm, "Phyll" > wrote:
> On Apr 1, 10:35 pm, "Ankit Lochan" > wrote:
>
> > Do not crush your fine tea - its utter wastage of fine tea through
> > incompetent manipulation!
>
> Matcha producers must be nuts! :-D
>
> Phyll
>
> On Apr 1, 10:35 pm, "Ankit Lochan" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Darjeeling produces 11.5 million kilos of tea - Approx. - 1.2% of the
> > total tea production of India.
>
> > 89 gardens in total produce darjeeling tea.
>
> > Darjeeling " DOES NOT PRODUCE ANY CTC TEAS"
>
> > If you want a stronger darjeeling instead of crushing the nice Whole
> > Leaf grade buy the broken or fanings grade - these are available at
> > 1/3 the price of the whole leaf tea and will give you a nice strong
> > cup.
>
> > Do not crush your fine tea - its utter wastage of fine tea through
> > incompetent manipulation!
>
> > If you really wanna get the best darjeeling from any vendor ask him if
> > he is selling a certified darjeeling.
>
> > The tea board of India issue a licence alongwith a number and inspects
> > all teas that the vendor buys from the country. These Darjeelings are
> > orignal - of the best quality called Certified Darjeelings.
>
> >www.lotusteahouse.com----- is one of the vendors who has this
> > license in the USA.
>
> > Have a nice day!
>
> > Ankit Lochanwww.lochantea.comwww.doketea.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

dear phyll,

i thought we were talking about 1st flush darjeelings and i had
replied in that context.

ankit lochan

Hi Ankit,

I know. I was merely joking with my matcha comment (sorry, maybe not
funny). I personally agree and prefer letting whole leaves stay
whole, but also encourage experimentation to suit one's likings. I
was merely pointing out to the original poster that there are very
experienced tea connoisseurs who crush some of their tea leaves
(specific tea ony) to achieve a certain taste effect.

With tea (and wine), it's always exciting to learn other people's way
of brewing and drinking (pairing Champagne with potato chips,
anyone?)...and who's to say what's right and wrong.

I guess I always challenge anybody who says "don't do that," and more
accepting to comments like "try it and see if you like it." After
all, we are only talking about a beverage we call tea.

Phyll



On Apr 4, 12:49 am, "Ankit Lochan" > wrote:
> On Apr 2, 11:21 pm, "Phyll" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 1, 10:35 pm, "Ankit Lochan" > wrote:
>
> > > Do not crush your fine tea - its utter wastage of fine tea through
> > > incompetent manipulation!
>
> > Matcha producers must be nuts! :-D
>
> > Phyll
>
> > On Apr 1, 10:35 pm, "Ankit Lochan" > wrote:
>
> > > Darjeeling produces 11.5 million kilos of tea - Approx. - 1.2% of the
> > > total tea production of India.
>
> > > 89 gardens in total produce darjeeling tea.
>
> > > Darjeeling " DOES NOT PRODUCE ANY CTC TEAS"
>
> > > If you want a stronger darjeeling instead of crushing the nice Whole
> > > Leaf grade buy the broken or fanings grade - these are available at
> > > 1/3 the price of the whole leaf tea and will give you a nice strong
> > > cup.
>
> > > Do not crush your fine tea - its utter wastage of fine tea through
> > > incompetent manipulation!
>
> > > If you really wanna get the best darjeeling from any vendor ask him if
> > > he is selling a certified darjeeling.
>
> > > The tea board of India issue a licence alongwith a number and inspects
> > > all teas that the vendor buys from the country. These Darjeelings are
> > > orignal - of the best quality called Certified Darjeelings.
>
> > >www.lotusteahouse.com-----is one of the vendors who has this
> > > license in the USA.
>
> > > Have a nice day!
>
> > > Ankit Lochanwww.lochantea.comwww.doketea.com-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> dear phyll,
>
> i thought we were talking about 1st flush darjeelings and i had
> replied in that context.
>
> ankit lochan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Aloke Prasad > writes:

> Whenever I give my 1st flush DJ's like Makaibari's to my family or
> guests (who are expecting something really really out of this world,
> given the cost and trouble I go through to get these.. vs buying Green
> Label at the local Indian store).. they remark that the tea feels
> "weak" and has no "liquor" (or color), even though they like the
> flavor.
>
> So, given that the teas that produce stronger color have finer leaf
> (like CTC), what if I crush (but not powder) my DJ's? Will that
> produce a better blend of falvor AND color? Probably, as I notice
> that the more fine leaves at the bottom of the packets if the 1st
> flush DJ's also produces a few brews of more color and body.

I doubt you'll get an "adequate" color boost, even if you chop the
leaves fine and overbrew them. But really, isn't this beside the
point? Have you tried to get your doubters to ignore the color and
concentrate on the taste and aroma? How hard can it be to convince
them that color is unimportant?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Mar 31, 7:03 pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> Aloke Prasad > writes:
> > Whenever I give my 1st flush DJ's like Makaibari's to my family or
> > guests (who are expecting something really really out of this world,
> > given the cost and trouble I go through to get these.. vs buying Green
> > Label at the local Indian store).. they remark that the tea feels
> > "weak" and has no "liquor" (or color), even though they like the
> > flavor.
>
> > So, given that the teas that produce stronger color have finer leaf
> > (like CTC), what if I crush (but not powder) my DJ's? Will that
> > produce a better blend of falvor AND color? Probably, as I notice
> > that the more fine leaves at the bottom of the packets if the 1st
> > flush DJ's also produces a few brews of more color and body.
>
> I doubt you'll get an "adequate" color boost, even if you chop the
> leaves fine and overbrew them. But really, isn't this beside the
> point? Have you tried to get your doubters to ignore the color and
> concentrate on the taste and aroma? How hard can it be to convince
> them that color is unimportant?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /

To get them to ignore the colour, you can always blind them

This whole colour thing actually reminded me of something that happen
to a family friend. When this family friend went to Taiwan a few years
ago, she bought her in-laws a quarter kilo of some award winning
$0.90/1g light roasted oolong as a gift for Christmas. In visiting the
in-laws a few months later, she asked whether they enjoyed the tea, to
which they replied bluntly that it was a really bad tea.

On further questioning, it turned out her in-laws had used the full
250g of tea leaves in one session to get the "right" colour brew, but
by then the tea was so astringent and bitter that they couldn't drink
it and so they had to throw all of it out.

On Apr 1, 3:25 pm, "sjschen" > wrote:
> On Mar 31, 7:03 pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Aloke Prasad > writes:
> > > Whenever I give my 1st flush DJ's like Makaibari's to my family or
> > > guests (who are expecting something really really out of this world,
> > > given the cost and trouble I go through to get these.. vs buying Green
> > > Label at the local Indian store).. they remark that the tea feels
> > > "weak" and has no "liquor" (or color), even though they like the
> > > flavor.
>
> > > So, given that the teas that produce stronger color have finer leaf
> > > (like CTC), what if I crush (but not powder) my DJ's? Will that
> > > produce a better blend of falvor AND color? Probably, as I notice
> > > that the more fine leaves at the bottom of the packets if the 1st
> > > flush DJ's also produces a few brews of more color and body.
>
> > I doubt you'll get an "adequate" color boost, even if you chop the
> > leaves fine and overbrew them. But really, isn't this beside the
> > point? Have you tried to get your doubters to ignore the color and
> > concentrate on the taste and aroma? How hard can it be to convince
> > them that color is unimportant?
>
> > /Lew
> > ---
> > Lew Perin /
>
> To get them to ignore the colour, you can always blind them
>
> This whole colour thing actually reminded me of something that happen
> to a family friend. When this family friend went to Taiwan a few years
> ago, she bought her in-laws a quarter kilo of some award winning
> $0.90/1g light roasted oolong as a gift for Christmas. In visiting the
> in-laws a few months later, she asked whether they enjoyed the tea, to
> which they replied bluntly that it was a really bad tea.
>
> On further questioning, it turned out her in-laws had used the full
> 250g of tea leaves in one session to get the "right" colour brew, but
> by then the tea was so astringent and bitter that they couldn't drink
> it and so they had to throw all of it out.

Um, no offense..... but..... did somebody knock them over the head or
do they just have issues?

Any sort of common sense would tell these people that, maybe, just
maybe, the tea is light in colour anyway? In this day and age, a
phone call to check how to brew a tea really isn't that hard to do...

Besides.... you need a pretty big pot just to fill it with 250g of
tea. I mean... c'mon

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

>
> Um, no offense..... but..... did somebody knock them over the head or
> do they just have issues?
>
> Any sort of common sense would tell these people that, maybe, just
> maybe, the tea is light in colour anyway? In this day and age, a
> phone call to check how to brew a tea really isn't that hard to do...
>
> Besides.... you need a pretty big pot just to fill it with 250g of
> tea. I mean... c'mon
>
> MarshalN
> http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN
>


Any more I ask people what they like before I go out of my way to get them
really good teas....most of the time I think my mother-in-law likes flavored
teas and herbals so....that's what she gets. Or a gift certificate, that's
best.

Seriously, if someone is going to spend that much money on a gift for
someone it is best if they ASK first if the recipient even wants it or knows
what to do with it, especially food items. Otherwise it's a good bet they'll
be disappointed with how the gift is received.

Melinda

On Apr 1, 11:56 pm, "Melinda" > wrote:
> > Um, no offense..... but..... did somebody knock them over the head or
> > do they just have issues?
>
> > Any sort of common sense would tell these people that, maybe, just
> > maybe, the tea is light in colour anyway? In this day and age, a
> > phone call to check how to brew a tea really isn't that hard to do...
>
> > Besides.... you need a pretty big pot just to fill it with 250g of
> > tea. I mean... c'mon
>
> > MarshalN
> >http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN
>
> Any more I ask people what they like before I go out of my way to get them
> really good teas....most of the time I think my mother-in-law likes flavored
> teas and herbals so....that's what she gets. Or a gift certificate, that's
> best.
>
> Seriously, if someone is going to spend that much money on a gift for
> someone it is best if they ASK first if the recipient even wants it or knows
> what to do with it, especially food items. Otherwise it's a good bet they'll
> be disappointed with how the gift is received.
>
> Melinda

Evidently the in-laws wanted "chinese tea" and the family friend
decided to get best for them (filial piety?). Maybe it's a lack of
understanding on what tea they wanted or perhaps it it's her
assumption that these in-laws had some common sense in tea making.
Either way, the brew turned out horrid and family relations were
strained. The part that really got me was that before conceeding in
defeat, the in-laws also tried to redeem the brewed liquid with
Coffeemate and sugar.

Perhaps the in-laws, being 70 year old small town folks had something
to do with their tea making ignorance? Who knows? I just find it to be
an amusing story, and judging by the way things are in this world, I
don't doubt one bit that this story is true.

Aloke Prasad > wrote:
>Whenever I give my 1st flush DJ's like Makaibari's to my family or
>guests (who are expecting something really really out of this world,
>given the cost and trouble I go through to get these.. vs buying Green
>Label at the local Indian store).. they remark that the tea feels "weak"
>and has no "liquor" (or color), even though they like the flavor.

That's true.

>So, given that the teas that produce stronger color have finer leaf
>(like CTC), what if I crush (but not powder) my DJ's? Will that produce
>a better blend of falvor AND color? Probably, as I notice that the more
>fine leaves at the bottom of the packets if the 1st flush DJ's also
>produces a few brews of more color and body.

CTC does some interesting stuff in that it removes much of the flavourful
liquid from inside the leaf and gets it onto the outside of the leaf, where
it's dried out. This results in tea that steeps much much faster.

All grinding it up after the fact will do is increase the surface area.
This will get you more flavour, both good and bad, and it will reduce the
steeping time a bit. But I don't think it'll be the night and day difference
that you want.

>[Yeah, I can hear people say .. Why don't you try and find out? But I
>wanted to see why others haven't though of doing this before].

I'd bet if you call Makaibari and ask for fannings they might even have
some. There's not much of a demand.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Fannings are a natural grade that occurs even in the best regulated
orthodox production - the skill with this process is to reduce these
secondary grades and to maximize the leaf grades. Makaibari will make
some - around 5-8% perhaps but will rather sell them at auction where
they will bought for blending and packing into tea bags than supply
them to specialty tea customers.

Nigel at Teacraft


On Apr 2, 4:03 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> I'd bet if you call Makaibari and ask for fannings they might even have
> some. There's not much of a demand.
> --scott