I'm thinking of purchasing one specifically for tea since sometimes I
don't like to heat water on my stove in a tea kettle. I hear that
electric kettles heat water very quickly.

A few questions.

Do they really heat water faster?

How would you regulate how hot the water gets, either boiling or on
the brink of boiling? (usually I let the water rest for a few minutes
before steeping senchas, whites, and other delicate teas)

As a side question, do you measure how hot the water gets before
steeping your high quality loose leaf teas.

Thanks for your expertise.

Tea Sunrise wrote:
> Do they really heat water faster?

Than what, precisely? No household electric kettle is likely to heat
faster than a good metal one on a gas stove, which can deliver of the
order of 10 kW. Normal home wiring limits electric kettles to 1-2 kW.
If the comparison is an electric stove, a high-power electric kettle
will be faster. The power is almost as high as a range element, and
thermal contact is better.

> How would you regulate how hot the water gets, either boiling or on
> the brink of boiling? (usually I let the water rest for a few minutes
> before steeping senchas, whites, and other delicate teas)

The first part gets complicated. Some of us stop heating when the kettle
makes a certain noise, when the bubbles are a particular size, when we
feel like it... A few even use thermometers. Others just buy
thermostatted kettles, which vary widely in temperature accuracy and
stability.

On the latter point: water cools very slowly when enclosed to prevent
evaporation. People often confuse the step-change from heating the walls
of a pot or cup with progressive cooling. It's unlikely that a rest as
you describe will drop the temperature by more than a few degrees,
certainly not enough to drop from boiling to sencha temperature. A more
effective method is to dilute boiling water with a known quantity of
room-temperature water. (The sharing pitcher/ fair pot is a handy vessel
for this.) Personally, I almost always have a creamer of tap water ready
for tempering kettle water before adding to the teapot or gaiwan.

> As a side question, do you measure how hot the water gets before
> steeping your high quality loose leaf teas.


Some do. Some of us find it more enjoyable to stay with intuition and
experience. As the saying goes, it is only through wisdom that we avoid
error - but it is only through error that we acquire wisdom.

-DM

On 2007-09-08, DogMa > wrote:
> Tea Sunrise wrote:
>> Do they really heat water faster?
>
> Than what, precisely? No household electric kettle is likely to heat
> faster than a good metal one on a gas stove, which can deliver of the
> order of 10 kW.

(This is not a timely response but this week's Curious Cook column in
the NY times made me think of the thread.)

2 kW, you mean? Or maybe 10kW for the whole stove?

When I was shopping for stoves, the gas stoves in my price range
(<$1000) tend to max out around 15000 Btu/hr for the big burners.
Assuming 40% efficiency (high end of the US DoE figure, according to
McGee's article), that would deliver about 1.8kW to the water. The
pricier stoves with 18000 Btu burners would deliver around 2.1kW.

Electric coil heating elements are typically 1500W and 2600W, but get
closer to 70% efficiency, so a big one can deliver around 1800W to the
water. Both power and efficiency are higher for ceramic cooktops.
(E.g., mine has 1500W, 2000W and 3000W elements, and is around 80%
efficiency.)

So I concur that a stove would heat water faster than an electric
kettle, assuming the kettle fits on the biggest burner, etc. (But
stoves don't turn themselves off when the water's ready, keep the
kettle safely cool to the touch, etc., which are really easy features
to get used to.)

[Temperature control]

I'd meant to post about this separately, but it fits he when I am
rich and powerful or something, I want to buy one of these for my
kettle (or build something like it):
http://auberins.com/index.php?main_p...products_id=48

For me, that beats a thermometer any day, in pure gadget appeal!


N.

I'd say in general yes because an electric stove most likely has to
heat an oversize inefficient element first depending on age. Buy one
with at least a 1500W rating. I'd recommend the SS over the Plastic.
Some come with thermostats which are accurate enough. You'll never
have to worry about boil down. My electric kettle is closer to the
faucet than the stove. I fill mine through the spout. I like the 1L
size. Be sure you can devote a plug and space to it. The electric
kettle will be a tad heavier because of the heating element. I marred
a new ceramic stovepot with a stove kettle after a couple of uses
which had a steel plate and stainless steel casting because of the
dielectric. I did a remodel and I like the electric kettle on granite
countertop. I'd never got back to the stove.

Jim

Tea Sunrise wrote:
> I'm thinking of purchasing one specifically for tea since sometimes I
> don't like to heat water on my stove in a tea kettle. I hear that
> electric kettles heat water very quickly.
>
> A few questions.
>
> Do they really heat water faster?
>
> How would you regulate how hot the water gets, either boiling or on
> the brink of boiling? (usually I let the water rest for a few minutes
> before steeping senchas, whites, and other delicate teas)
>
> As a side question, do you measure how hot the water gets before
> steeping your high quality loose leaf teas.
>
> Thanks for your expertise.

One advantage of electric kettles over stove top is that they can be
easily brought elsewhere to heat water out of your kitchen. This may
be good for gongfu brewing, where you use small amounts of water
frequently but don't want to stand at your kitchen counter. I also
use one I bought from adagio in my office at work and it functions
very well. It has an adjustable thermostat and I can set it up so that
it either shuts off right after boiling or something relatively far
below that. I have one at home that boils for ten or so seconds before
shutting off. That one is harder to cool down, but you can always stop
the process before the boiling occurs if you are paying attetion. The
other good thing about electic kettles is that they generally
automatically turn off, so if you put the water on and forget about it
for some reason, you don't have to worry about burning your house (or
office) down. I remember a time when I put a stovetop kettle on and
then forgot about it and left my home. Luckily, it was a high end
calphalon pot that was sturdy enough to withstand (somewhat) being
heated empty on the stove for several hours. Otherwise, I could have
easily burned my house down. Regarding speed of heating, mine are
faster than my electric stove, but I'm not sure how they would compare
to a gas stove. But I'd say there are many other reasons to buy such a
kettle other than speed.

On Sep 8, 1:47 am, Tea Sunrise > wrote:
> I'm thinking of purchasing one specifically for tea since sometimes I
> don't like to heat water on my stove in a tea kettle. I hear that
> electric kettles heat water very quickly.
>
> A few questions.
>
> Do they really heat water faster?
>
> How would you regulate how hot the water gets, either boiling or on
> the brink of boiling? (usually I let the water rest for a few minutes
> before steeping senchas, whites, and other delicate teas)
>
> As a side question, do you measure how hot the water gets before
> steeping your high quality loose leaf teas.
>
> Thanks for your expertise.


A solid investment, and well worth it. I started with a 2L cheap one
from Proctor/Silex that only cost about $15 and it still gets used to
this day. I also bought a much nicer stainless steel/black one (can't
remember the brand) from an Asian market that has a temp. setting.
Honestly, I can always stop the cheap one at the right time and be
~5-10 degrees of my target just from sound/time, but the thermostat
eliminates the need to have that proficiency. I like the challenge.

Someone else mentioned it already but the number of thermal transfers
involved is less with an electric kettle, and outside of a gas stove
probably the best bet for efficient, quick water.

- Dominic

Tea Sunrise > wrote:
>I'm thinking of purchasing one specifically for tea since sometimes I
>don't like to heat water on my stove in a tea kettle. I hear that
>electric kettles heat water very quickly.

Why don't you like the stove?

>A few questions.
>
>Do they really heat water faster?

Faster than what?

I find them slower than my gas stove, for the most part. But if I had an
electric stove, I might find them faster.

In general, the power input rating will tell you. If you have a unit rated
for 1500 watts, it will generally heat water faster than a 1500 watt electric
range top, because there is less heat lost around the sides and more going
directly into the water. But if you have a unit rated for 500 watts, it isn't
going to heat as quickly as a 1500 watt electric range.

>How would you regulate how hot the water gets, either boiling or on
>the brink of boiling? (usually I let the water rest for a few minutes
>before steeping senchas, whites, and other delicate teas)

Most of them boil the water, then cut off. Some fancier ones can be
set to shut off at a preset temperature lower than boiling as they are
designed for just that application.

>As a side question, do you measure how hot the water gets before
>steeping your high quality loose leaf teas.

I don't. I tend to estimate it by ear. But then, I mostly drink black
teas.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

> Do they really heat water faster?

Yes

> How would you regulate how hot the water gets, either boiling or on
> the brink of boiling? (usually I let the water rest for a few minutes
> before steeping senchas, whites, and other delicate teas)

I listen to the sound.


> As a side question, do you measure how hot the water gets before
> steeping your high quality loose leaf teas.

Infrequently

> As a side question, do you measure how hot the water gets before
> steeping your high quality loose leaf teas.
>
> Thanks for your expertise.

I got a Kamjove that I brought home from China last Christmas.
Unfortunately, they lied that it could convert the voltage. I had to
get a step-down transformer, a huge thing of about 20 pounds, just to
drink tea.

But, yes, it does make things convenient; especially if you are doing
Gongfu Cha and you need water with a constant rolling boil.

Mydnight wrote:
> I got a Kamjove that I brought home from China last Christmas.
> Unfortunately, they lied that it could convert the voltage. I had to
> get a step-down transformer, a huge thing of about 20 pounds, just to
> drink tea.

Going the other way will usually lead to smoke and perhaps fire. But
running a 220V passive heater (no control electronics) on 110V should be
fine. It would nominally deliver 1/4 of the rated power. Since heating
elements run so far above 100C, the water would still boil; it would
just take about four times as long. Actually, the situation is better
than that: the resistance of heating elements goes up at operating
temperature. So at half-voltage, resistance is lower, current higher,
and power not as much diminished.

I wouldn't bother with a transformer; just change the plug if needed.

-D<

DogMa > wrote:
>Mydnight wrote:
>> I got a Kamjove that I brought home from China last Christmas.
>> Unfortunately, they lied that it could convert the voltage. I had to
>> get a step-down transformer, a huge thing of about 20 pounds, just to
>> drink tea.
>
>Going the other way will usually lead to smoke and perhaps fire. But
>running a 220V passive heater (no control electronics) on 110V should be
>fine. It would nominally deliver 1/4 of the rated power. Since heating
>elements run so far above 100C, the water would still boil; it would
>just take about four times as long. Actually, the situation is better
>than that: the resistance of heating elements goes up at operating
>temperature. So at half-voltage, resistance is lower, current higher,
>and power not as much diminished.

Yes, but if it takes four times as long (and it actually is about that
because the increased heat loss during the longer warming time more than
makes up for the added heat due to the lower element resistance), that
sort of defeats the whole POINT of having an electric kettle, doesn't it?

>I wouldn't bother with a transformer; just change the plug if needed.

Problem is that a 1500W transformer is _big_ and _expensive_. It would be
easier and cheaper just to extend a 15A 220V line to your kitchen and
install a Europlug.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Sep 7, 10:47 pm, Tea Sunrise > wrote:
> I'm thinking of purchasing one specifically for tea since sometimes I
> don't like to heat water on my stove in a tea kettle. I hear that
> electric kettles heat water very quickly.
>
> A few questions.
>
> Do they really heat water faster?
>
> How would you regulate how hot the water gets, either boiling or on
> the brink of boiling? (usually I let the water rest for a few minutes
> before steeping senchas, whites, and other delicate teas)
>
> As a side question, do you measure how hot the water gets before
> steeping your high quality loose leaf teas.
>
> Thanks for your expertise.

I have a Kamjove from China that I use daily. It has an automatic
switch that reheats the water periodically which I appreciate.
I use the "cloud" signals to let me know when the temperature is
appropriate for whatever I am brewing:
leaving the lid open - soft, lazy low steamy clouds for greens and
yellows,
higher steadier vertical steamy clouds for oolongs; and straight up
steamy steams of smoke for pu-erhs and blacks.
I also use room temperature water for most of my better greens.
I love this Kamjove and the convenience of reheated water at my
command.
Shen

i love m electric kettle, i put in one piece of bamboo charcoal in
them to remove metal taste and make my water sweeter. i just use my
own judgement on the water temperature. Once you are used to the
kettle you kinda know it by hearing the sound and duration