The reality of my age and heritage has come to the forefront and I've
developed a bit of hypertension and insomnia - not too high - high
enough, though, that I must forsake caffeinated tea from late
afternoon onward.
So - here's the rub: I really LOVE a decent pot of tea and the
decaffeinated I've had have lost flavour, as well as the buzz. Can't
stomach fruity or scented stuff and really adore a good, stiff Yunnan
Gold or a lingering Oolong and Shu and Sheng are my breakfast buddies.
Anyone out there with a suggestion???
Personally, I am seriously doubtful that there even be a palatable
decaf availabale (tea snob, that I am); but, I am willing to give it a
go.
Thanks, all.
Shen

On Jan 29, 11:04*pm, Shen > wrote:
> The reality of my age and heritage has come to the forefront and I've
> developed a bit of hypertension and insomnia - not too high - high
> enough, though, that I must forsake caffeinated tea from late
> afternoon onward.
> So - here's the rub: I really LOVE a decent pot of tea and the
> decaffeinated I've had have lost flavour, as well as the buzz. Can't
> stomach fruity or scented stuff and really adore a good, stiff Yunnan
> Gold or a lingering Oolong and Shu and Sheng are my breakfast buddies.
> Anyone out there with a suggestion???
> Personally, I am seriously doubtful that there even be a palatable
> decaf availabale (tea snob, that I am); but, I am willing to give it a
> go.
> Thanks, all.
> Shen

A good pai mutan or silver needles.. Does not feel to have any
caffeine
at all, although strictly speaking they have as much caffeine. But
I can drink 2 pots before sleep and it doesn't make any difference at
all. I think this is due to high content of theanine? I wouldn't be
able
to drink decaf teas at all, I'd rather drink water - it tastes better
to me.
-ak

On Jan 30, 12:43*am, wrote:
> On Jan 29, 11:04*pm, Shen > wrote:
>
> > The reality of my age and heritage has come to the forefront and I've
> > developed a bit of hypertension and insomnia - not too high - high
> > enough, though, that I must forsake caffeinated tea from late
> > afternoon onward.
> > So - here's the rub: I really LOVE a decent pot of tea and the
> > decaffeinated I've had have lost flavour, as well as the buzz. Can't
> > stomach fruity or scented stuff and really adore a good, stiff Yunnan
> > Gold or a lingering Oolong and Shu and Sheng are my breakfast buddies.
> > Anyone out there with a suggestion???
> > Personally, I am seriously doubtful that there even be a palatable
> > decaf availabale (tea snob, that I am); but, I am willing to give it a
> > go.
> > Thanks, all.
> > Shen
>
> A good pai mutan or silver needles.. Does not feel to have any
> caffeine
> at all, although strictly speaking they have as much caffeine. But
> I can drink 2 pots before sleep and it doesn't make any difference at
> all. I think this is due to high content of theanine? I wouldn't be
> able
> to drink decaf teas at all, I'd rather drink water - it tastes better
> to me.
> -ak

Yes, I agree about the water thing; however, drinking Pai Mutan or
even a good Silver Needle is pretty much in thesame league as water
imho.
I'm looking for something with a little more gusto.
Shen

Hello! I hope that this (my very first post) can be helpful to you. I sometimes drink hojicha when I dont want to get too much caffeine (for example, before going to sleep). As far as I know, the caffeine content in hojicha is very low due to its charcoal roasting process. It is also quite delicious. I can also think of kukicha as a low caff alternative since a lot of it is made up of twigs rather than tea leaves. Flavor is also good. Both alternatives are definitively more tasty and enteresting than water!

--
Send from http://www.nonsolonews.net

On Jan 30, 6:34*pm, > wrote:
> Hello! I hope that this (my very first post) can be helpful to you. *I sometimes drink hojicha when I dont want to get too much caffeine (for example, before going to sleep). *As far as I know, the caffeine content in hojicha is very low due to its charcoal roasting process. *It is also quite delicious. *I can also think of kukicha as a low caff alternative since a lot of it is made up of twigs rather than tea leaves. *Flavor is also good. *Both alternatives are definitively more tasty and enteresting than water!
>
> --
> Send fromhttp://www.nonsolonews.net

Excellent! Domo arrigato, Sencha. I really like the toasty flavour of
Hojicha. I'll give it a go!
Shen

> The reality of my age and heritage has come to the forefront and I've
> developed a bit of hypertension and insomnia - not too high - high enough,
> though, that I must forsake caffeinated tea from late afternoon onward. So
> - here's the rub: I really LOVE a decent pot of tea and the decaffeinated
> I've had have lost flavour, as well as the buzz. Can't stomach fruity or
> scented stuff and really adore a good, stiff Yunnan Gold or a lingering
> Oolong and Shu and Sheng are my breakfast buddies. Anyone out there with a
> suggestion??? Personally, I am seriously doubtful that there even be a
> palatable decaf availabale (tea snob, that I am); but, I am willing to
> give it a go. Thanks, all. Shen


Hi Shen,
Members of the science squad mentioned often enough that the 30 second first steep poured off does *not* render the next steep decafinated. But -- at the risk of rousing the science fascistas -- we can, I think, safely say that steeping does remove progressively more caffeine (whatever) as we progress from steep to steep. So...perhaps you might consider taking one of your shu or sheng breakfast buddies through multiple steeps, but leaving some for your afternoon and evening tea. At that stage the leaves ought to produce far less caffeine (whatever) than they had in the morning. Just a thought.
--
Michael

On Feb 2, 3:35*pm, Michael Plant > wrote:
> > The reality of my age and heritage has come to the forefront and I've
> > developed a bit of hypertension and insomnia - not too high - high enough,
> > though, that I must forsake caffeinated tea from late afternoon onward. So
> > - here's the rub: I really LOVE a decent pot of tea and the decaffeinated
> > I've had have lost flavour, as well as the buzz. *Can't stomach fruity or
> > scented stuff and really adore a good, stiff Yunnan Gold or a lingering
> > Oolong and Shu and Sheng are my breakfast buddies. Anyone out there with a
> > suggestion??? Personally, I am seriously doubtful that there even be a
> > palatable decaf availabale (tea snob, that I am); but, I am willing to
> > give it a go. Thanks, all. Shen
>
> Hi Shen,
> Members of the science squad mentioned often enough that the 30 second first steep poured off does *not* render the next steep decafinated. But -- at the risk of rousing the science fascistas -- we can, I think, safely say that steeping does remove progressively more caffeine (whatever) as we progress from steep to steep. So...perhaps you might consider taking one of your shu or sheng breakfast buddies through multiple steeps, but leaving some for your afternoon and evening tea. At that stage the leaves ought to produce far less caffeine (whatever) than they had in the morning. Just a thought.
> --
> Michael

Yuh-oh!
Michael,
I hope you haven't opened up that "30-second" can of worms!
That sounds like a more palatable idea to me.
I can't foresake the delicious intrigue of a decent shu or ole sheng -
think I've rather stay awake!
I'll give it a try and see if the sandman shows.............
Thanks!
Shen

i wonder if steeping tea in cold water could still remove caffeine
without pulling much of the flavor out of a tea?
Nigel?

On Feb 3, 12:45*am, SN > wrote:
> i wonder if steeping tea in cold water could still remove caffeine
> without pulling much of the flavor out of a tea?
> Nigel?

Sorry no, it don't work. Consider this - if Lipton et al could find a
cheap, fast (dare I say 30 second) method to decaffeinate their tea do
you think they would keep on using a solvent method that takes 4 to 6
hours and roughly doubles their cost of production? No, neither do I.

Nigel at Teacraft

Michael, even I, ever watchful for decaffeination transgression, can
endorse this! About the most sensible and useful advice I have heard
on this subject.

Nigel at Teacraft


On Feb 2, 3:35*pm, Michael Plant > wrote:
> But -- at the risk of rousing the science fascistas -- we can, I think, safely
> say that steeping does remove progressively more caffeine (whatever) as
> we progress from steep to steep. So...perhaps you might consider taking
> one of your shu or sheng breakfast buddies through multiple steeps, but
> leaving some for your afternoon and evening tea. At that stage the leaves
> ought to produce far less caffeine (whatever) than they had in the morning..

Nigel, you have proved once again the wisdom of scientific method which, for many, means little more than agreeing with me, whoever "me" may be. Seriously, myths die hard, especially those that fulfill our wishes. I'm supposed to limit my caffeine intake, and I do that by brewing more steeps from the same leaf and enjoying a lighter later brew. Nonetheless, for those who need to eliminate caffeine intake completely, these partial methods are ill advised.

BTW, I tried to order tea from your company, Nothing But Tea, but my computer would not allow the use of your payment method. I can do PayPal. Perhaps you might advise me on how to do that. Otherwise, we'll find another payment method.
Michael


> Michael, even I, ever watchful for decaffeination transgression, can
> endorse this! About the most sensible and useful advice I have heard on
> this subject.

> Nigel at Teacraft

> On Feb 2, 3:35*pm, Michael Plant > wrote:

>> But -- at the risk of rousing the science fascistas -- we can, I think,
>> safely say that steeping does remove progressively more caffeine
>> (whatever) as we progress from steep to steep. So...perhaps you might
>> consider taking one of your shu or sheng breakfast buddies through
>> multiple steeps, but leaving some for your afternoon and evening tea. At
>> that stage the leaves ought to produce far less caffeine (whatever) than
>> they had in the morning.

Nigel > wrote:
>On Feb 3, 12:45=A0am, SN > wrote:
>> i wonder if steeping tea in cold water could still remove caffeine
>> without pulling much of the flavor out of a tea?
>> Nigel?
>
>Sorry no, it don't work. Consider this - if Lipton et al could find a
>cheap, fast (dare I say 30 second) method to decaffeinate their tea do
>you think they would keep on using a solvent method that takes 4 to 6
>hours and roughly doubles their cost of production? No, neither do I.

What solvent ARE they using?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Feb 8, 7:55*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Nigel > wrote:
> >On Feb 3, 12:45=A0am, SN > wrote:
> >> i wonder if steeping tea in cold water could still remove caffeine
> >> without pulling much of the flavor out of a tea?
> >> Nigel?
>
> >Sorry no, it don't work. *Consider this - if Lipton et al could find a
> >cheap, fast (dare I say 30 second) method to decaffeinate their tea do
> >you think they would keep on using a solvent method that takes 4 to 6
> >hours and roughly doubles their cost of production? *No, neither do I.
>
> What solvent ARE they using?
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. *C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I think it's ethyl acetate.
Shen

On Feb 8, 3:55*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Nigel > wrote:
> >Consider this - if Lipton et al could find a
> >cheap, fast (dare I say 30 second) method to decaffeinate their tea do
> >you think they would keep on using a solvent method that takes 4 to 6
> >hours and roughly doubles their cost of production? *No, neither do I.
>
> What solvent ARE they using?

I believe Lipton are using the supercritical CO2 method. Three
organic solvents conmmonly used for decaffeinatiing tea a

1. ethyl acetate - inflammable and leaves a fruity taste. Removes up
to 80% of AOX along with the caffeine
2. supercritical CO2 - typically at temperatures between 32 degrees C
and 49 degrees C and pressure up to 3,500 psi. Expensive but does a
clean job stripping caffeine at the expense of only 15% AOXs
3. methylene chloride - nasty to handle (also used to clean paint
brushes). Not allowed in tea decaff in USA though OK for coffee
decaff and for tea in rest of world. Strips about 20% AOX when used on
made tea but gives a good quality decaff product when used during the
primary tea manufacture (after fermenting and before firing).

See http://chadao.blogspot.com/ for more tea caffeine information


Nigel at Teacraft

On Feb 11, 8:21*am, Nigel > wrote:
> On Feb 8, 3:55*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> > Nigel > wrote:
> > >Consider this - if Lipton et al could find a
> > >cheap, fast (dare I say 30 second) method to decaffeinate their tea do
> > >you think they would keep on using a solvent method that takes 4 to 6
> > >hours and roughly doubles their cost of production? *No, neither do I..
>
> > What solvent ARE they using?
>
> I believe Lipton are using the supercritical CO2 method. *Three
> organic solvents conmmonly used for decaffeinatiing tea a
>
> 1. ethyl acetate - inflammable and leaves a fruity taste. *Removes up
> to 80% of AOX along with the caffeine
> 2. supercritical CO2 - typically at temperatures between 32 degrees C
> and 49 degrees C and pressure up to 3,500 psi. Expensive but does a
> clean job stripping caffeine at the expense of only 15% AOXs
> 3. methylene chloride - nasty to handle (also used to clean paint
> brushes). *Not allowed in tea decaff in USA though OK for coffee
> decaff and for tea in rest of world. Strips about 20% AOX when used on
> made tea but gives a good quality decaff product when used during the
> primary tea manufacture (after fermenting and before firing).
>
> Seehttp://chadao.blogspot.com/for more tea caffeine information
>
> Nigel at Teacraft

Thanks, Nigel............I've adhered to Michael's advice here and
been drinking later infusions. That way, I still get to enjoy rather
good teas and I've been sleeping well.
Shen

> See http://chadao.blogspot.com/for more tea caffeine information
>
> Nigel at Teacraft

hi everybody,

i should have written before now to mention that nigel has done a
gorgeous job of gathering all the basic information about caffeine and
tea into a clear and informative essay for us at CHA DAO. the topic
seems to rear its head periodically, on RFDT and on other lists, and
to require explanation and disambiguation [and the dispelling of
myths] each time. it occurred to me that it would be much more
convenient, rather than having to reiterate the science over and over,
to have the data collected in one easily-accessible spot. so naturally
i thought to ask the expert who has done the most to educate us on the
topic: nigel melican.

nigel's essay is currently the top post at CHA DAO. in the normal
progress of things, as newer posts are added to the blog, it will of
course move down; but no matter when you need it, you will always be
able to access this essay by nigel by using this permanent link:

http://tinyurl.com/2kgwy4

in other words, this URL will always take you, not only to CHA DAO,
but directly to nigel's essay on caffeine in tea.

thanks once again to nigel for a job done at his customary level of
performance, which is to say: superb.

best to all,
corax

On Jan 29, 11:04*pm, Shen > wrote:
> The reality of my age and heritage has come to the forefront and I've
> developed a bit of hypertension and insomnia - not too high - high
> enough, though, that I must forsake caffeinated tea from late
> afternoon onward.
> So - here's the rub: I really LOVE a decent pot of tea and the
> decaffeinated I've had have lost flavour, as well as the buzz. Can't
> stomach fruity or scented stuff and really adore a good, stiff Yunnan
> Gold or a lingering Oolong and Shu and Sheng are my breakfast buddies.
> Anyone out there with a suggestion???
> Personally, I am seriously doubtful that there even be a palatable
> decaf availabale (tea snob, that I am); but, I am willing to give it a
> go.
> Thanks, all.
> Shen

I think i'd echo Michael, but suggest maybe an aged oolong instead of
doing it with puerh. They're cheaper than old sheng and last just as
long.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN