Hey Everybody, sorry I don't post more often. The Paris
recommendations were very helpful.

I have a few questions about white pu-er. I've had two: the Rishi
Green Tuo Cha (good, expensive) and the 2007 Silver Thread Cake from
the puerh shop (better, cheaper). Anyway, I'm kind of excited about
the possibility of more.

Four questions:

1. Any other white pu-er recommendations?
2. What's your brewing technique? I had better luck with cooler water.
3. What, exactly, distinguishes a white pu-er from a normal young
green cake.
4. Does it have the same low caffeine content of other whites?


Thanks!

Dave

Sorry to spoil an oft quoted myth but white teas are NOT low caffeine.

White teas are generally made from the bud and first leaf of the
tenderest tip and the most natural processing - effectively just
withered for 48 to 72 hours until they are dry.

See Caffeine data for tips of various sizes:

Bud and one leaf 3.1%
Bud and two leaves 3.0%
Bud and three leaves 2.6%
Bud and four leaves 2.8%

Looks to me that White teas come out HIGH caffeine

See withering data for duration effect on caffeine increase in leaf

10 hours: = 3.22%
14 hours: = 3.40%
18 hours: = 3.43%
22 hours: = 3.51%
30 hours: = 3.56%

Looks to me again that White teas come out HIGH caffeine

See also CHA DAO http://tinyurl.com/2kgwy4

Nigel at Teacraft - note this caffeine data is copyright Teacraft not
to be used commercially without written permission


On Feb 14, 2:04*pm, Dave L > wrote:
> I have a few questions about white pu-er.
> Does it have the same low caffeine content of other whites?

Dave L > writes:

> [...]
>
> Four questions:
>
> [...]
> 2. What's your brewing technique? I had better luck with cooler water.
> 3. What, exactly, distinguishes a white pu-er from a normal young
> green cake.

Strictly speaking, there's no such thing as white Pu'er. I say this
not to pick nits but to try to clarify things so you can find what you
want. I think you're referring to a subcategory of green (or raw or
sheng) Pu'er made from buds only. These Pu'ers generally have names
with the word Silver in them, but there's no standard name.

As for brewing technique, I don't find these teas require cool water
as long as steep times are short. With a lot of leaf in the brewing
vessel, you might start brewing for 15 seconds or less and gradually
increase the steep time.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Feb 14, 11:19 am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> Dave L > writes:
> > [...]
>
> > Four questions:
>
> > [...]
> > 2. What's your brewing technique? I had better luck with cooler water.
> > 3. What, exactly, distinguishes a white pu-er from a normal young
> > green cake.
>
> Strictly speaking, there's no such thing as white Pu'er. I say this
> not to pick nits but to try to clarify things so you can find what you
> want. I think you're referring to a subcategory of green (or raw or
> sheng) Pu'er made from buds only. These Pu'ers generally have names
> with the word Silver in them, but there's no standard name.
>
> As for brewing technique, I don't find these teas require cool water
> as long as steep times are short. With a lot of leaf in the brewing
> vessel, you might start brewing for 15 seconds or less and gradually
> increase the steep time.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /

Thanks Nigel and Lew!

Lew, you're right: I was talking about buds only sheng. I had seen it
referred to as white, so I followed suit. No need to apologize at all,
I always appreciate getting things right.

Do you have any recommendations?

Dave L > writes:

> [...bud-only Pu'er...]
> Do you have any recommendations?

The cake The Tea Gallery lists as Silver Tip Puerh at

http://www.theteagallery.com/tealist.html

is my favorite. (Disclosu Over the years, the owners of The Tea
Gallery have become friends of mine; no business relationship,
though.)

I should mention that, if you're thinking of bud-only sheng as a
candidate for aging, you're in uncharted waters. This kind of Pu'er
has been manufactured for so short a time that nobody knows if it will
improve with age.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Feb 15, 10:00 am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> Dave L > writes:
> > [...bud-only Pu'er...]
> > Do you have any recommendations?
>
> The cake The Tea Gallery lists as Silver Tip Puerh at
>
> http://www.theteagallery.com/tealist.html
>
> is my favorite. (Disclosu Over the years, the owners of The Tea
> Gallery have become friends of mine; no business relationship,
> though.)
>
> I should mention that, if you're thinking of bud-only sheng as a
> candidate for aging, you're in uncharted waters. This kind of Pu'er
> has been manufactured for so short a time that nobody knows if it will
> improve with age.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /

Thanks! It is probably a little out of my price range, but I'll keep
it in mind.

>
> The cake The Tea Gallery lists as Silver Tip Puerh at
>
> http://www.theteagallery.com/tealist.html
>
> is my favorite. (Disclosu Over the years, the owners of The Tea
> Gallery have become friends of mine; no business relationship,
> though.)

Lew, their prices seem really high. Is the quality worth it? Are the
Chinese teas certified organic or checked for pesticide/heavy metal
residues?

Thanks,
Dean

"DPM" > writes:

> > The cake The Tea Gallery lists as Silver Tip Puerh at
> >
> > http://www.theteagallery.com/tealist.html
> >
> > is my favorite. (Disclosu Over the years, the owners of The Tea
> > Gallery have become friends of mine; no business relationship,
> > though.)
>
> Lew, their prices seem really high. Is the quality worth it?

I can't answer that question for you. Living within walking distance
of their shop, I generally buy teas from them that I've been able to
taste there. I don't buy everything I taste.

> Are the Chinese teas certified organic or checked for
> pesticide/heavy metal residues?

Not many of them, I think.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Feb 15, 5:31 pm, "DPM" > wrote:
> > The cake The Tea Gallery lists as Silver Tip Puerh at
>
> > http://www.theteagallery.com/tealist.html
>
> > is my favorite. (Disclosu Over the years, the owners of The Tea
> > Gallery have become friends of mine; no business relationship,
> > though.)
>
> Lew, their prices seem really high. Is the quality worth it? Are the
> Chinese teas certified organic or checked for pesticide/heavy metal
> residues?
>
> Thanks,
> Dean

From what I've seen and heard The Tea Gallery is certainly worth
patronizing. Had it not been for technical difficulties on my last
trip to NYC it was as much of a destination for me as the Statue of
Liberty. I don't even think Lew needed the full disclosure for such a
loved vendor. In fact it would be nice to have names dropped of these
most trusted and favorite vendors more often.

I hate to say it (and it's been hashed and rehashed) but terms and
seals claiming organic tea aren't really worth much more than they
weigh. Pesticides and heavy metals are always a potential worry, in
any tea from Lipton to imperial grades. The only way to be sure is to
have it analyzed personally and even that is overkill.

I have sampled a few teas from TTG and it will be my first stop next
time I'm in NYC for what it's worth.

- Dominic

"Dominic T." > wrote in message
...
>> Lew, their prices seem really high. Is the quality worth it? Are the
>> Chinese teas certified organic or checked for pesticide/heavy metal
>> residues?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dean
>
> From what I've seen and heard The Tea Gallery is certainly worth
> patronizing. Had it not been for technical difficulties on my last
> trip to NYC it was as much of a destination for me as the Statue of
> Liberty. I don't even think Lew needed the full disclosure for such a
> loved vendor. In fact it would be nice to have names dropped of these
> most trusted and favorite vendors more often.
>
> I hate to say it (and it's been hashed and rehashed) but terms and
> seals claiming organic tea aren't really worth much more than they
> weigh. Pesticides and heavy metals are always a potential worry, in
> any tea from Lipton to imperial grades. The only way to be sure is to
> have it analyzed personally and even that is overkill.
>
> I have sampled a few teas from TTG and it will be my first stop next
> time I'm in NYC for what it's worth.
>
> - Dominic

Well, I respect both of your opinions, so I'll have to schedule a trip up
there. At these prices I definitely have to try before I buy.

"The only way to be sure is to have it analyzed personally and even that is
overkill."
Some vendors actually do their own testing, but only the larger ones (like
Upton) and only a few random teas. When I asked Upton, they said:

"Although nothing is 100%, we do our very best to ensure that our tea is
safe. We work very closely only with vendors who we trust and with whom
we've had longstanding business relations. They provide us with detailed
pesticide reports and organic certificates. We also buy from several brokers
in Europe who have very stringent requirements for importing tea.
Additionally, we do test our teas at random to ensure that they are safe for
consumption and so far, all the teas we've analyzed have not had any
detectable pesticide residues."

Considering the state of the world we live in, I don't think I can expect
much more than that.

Dean

On Feb 19, 8:43 pm, "DPM" > wrote:
> Well, I respect both of your opinions, so I'll have to schedule a trip up
> there. At these prices I definitely have to try before I buy.
>
> "The only way to be sure is to have it analyzed personally and even that is
> overkill."
> Some vendors actually do their own testing, but only the larger ones (like
> Upton) and only a few random teas. When I asked Upton, they said:
>
> "Although nothing is 100%, we do our very best to ensure that our tea is
> safe. We work very closely only with vendors who we trust and with whom
> we've had longstanding business relations. They provide us with detailed
> pesticide reports and organic certificates. We also buy from several brokers
> in Europe who have very stringent requirements for importing tea.
> Additionally, we do test our teas at random to ensure that they are safe for
> consumption and so far, all the teas we've analyzed have not had any
> detectable pesticide residues."
>
> Considering the state of the world we live in, I don't think I can expect
> much more than that.
>
> Dean

I can respect the efforts of vendors like Upton, but the reality still
is that most likely very little is actually tested. Good faith and
good business relationships take you so far, but not much further. I
support Upton and patronize them when they fit the bill... it's just
that tea is such an ever changing thing with hundreds of variables in
play at every stage of it's life. The bottom line for me is to be
aware of the potential hazards, buy high quality tea from respected
sources, and enjoy my time with it worry free because there are never
any guarantees. I'm certain I've ingested numerous pesticides,
radioactive bits, metals, and who knows what other kinds of toxins
from the Earth we do our best to pillage and defile in my love for
tea, but it is what it is and no sticker or seal really changes that.
I'm sure the "fresh" air in Pittsburgh doesn't do me much in the way
of favors either, but I keep breathing.

- Dominic

DPM wrote:
>> [Lew Perin] The cake The Tea Gallery lists as Silver Tip Puerh at
>> http://www.theteagallery.com/tealist.html
>> is my favorite.
>
> Lew, their prices seem really high. Is the quality worth it?

Dean, I've only tried about 15-20 "silver tips" Pu-erhs, and only have
about a dozen in "inventory" for re-tasting. These include bingcha,
tuocha and loose-leaf. The little TTG cake is significantly superior to
all the others at every tasting so far.

I even picked up another recently, just in case they never produce
another like that. Like Lew, I have no idea how the stuff will age. In
fact, I might foil-wrap the spare, since it's plenty good right now and
has none of the off-notes or harshness that one usually hopes to lose on
storage.

-DM