There are teas that reward many steeps. And, for me, there are teas
that only get interesting *after* many steeps. Chief among these, I
find, are many - most! - cooked Pu'ers and border teas (Lubiancha.) I
usually find them kind of muddy and afflicted by off notes, for seven,
eight, or nine steeps. Then, around the time when the liquor loses
its opacity, a corresponding transparency comes over the taste, often
with a delightful sweetness reminiscent of dried fruit.

I often wonder how it might be possible to change my brewing protocol
to reach the taste I prefer more quickly. Obviously, I could just
discard the early steeps, but that seems wasteful, and besides, I like
caffeine as much as the next guy. I suppose I could also lengthen the
early steeps, but I think that would make them worse than they already
are. (I use a lot of leaf, and quite short steeps early on.)

Any ideas?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
World's first ISO 9003 sig!

On Feb 14, 4:34 pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> There are teas that reward many steeps. And, for me, there are teas
> that only get interesting *after* many steeps. Chief among these, I
> find, are many - most! - cooked Pu'ers and border teas (Lubiancha.) I
> usually find them kind of muddy and afflicted by off notes, for seven,
> eight, or nine steeps. Then, around the time when the liquor loses
> its opacity, a corresponding transparency comes over the taste, often
> with a delightful sweetness reminiscent of dried fruit.
>
> I often wonder how it might be possible to change my brewing protocol
> to reach the taste I prefer more quickly. Obviously, I could just
> discard the early steeps, but that seems wasteful, and besides, I like
> caffeine as much as the next guy. I suppose I could also lengthen the
> early steeps, but I think that would make them worse than they already
> are. (I use a lot of leaf, and quite short steeps early on.)
>
> Any ideas?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> World's first ISO 9003 sig!

I've wondered the exact same thing about a bunch of teas. The best I
have found to approximate it is to actually use less tea to the same
amount of water and the weaker brew tend to taste like the later
steeps sooner. Outside of that I never find rushing brewings helpful
to reach the end product. One it "feels" wrong, and two I think it is
because my heart isn't into the discard brews they are either rushed
or not properly completed which actually doesn't result in the same
end product for me many times.

I guess this is just one of those pain/pleasure things that you just
have to endure to get to the good stuff. However, I too am all for a
more pleasure less pain system

- Dominic

Sounds like you just need to use less leaves Lew!

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

Lewis Perin wrote:
> There are teas that reward many steeps. And, for me, there are teas
> that only get interesting *after* many steeps. Chief among these, I
> find, are many - most! - cooked Pu'ers and border teas (Lubiancha.) I
> usually find them kind of muddy and afflicted by off notes, for seven,
> eight, or nine steeps. Then, around the time when the liquor loses
> its opacity, a corresponding transparency comes over the taste, often
> with a delightful sweetness reminiscent of dried fruit.
>
> I often wonder how it might be possible to change my brewing protocol
> to reach the taste I prefer more quickly. Obviously, I could just
> discard the early steeps, but that seems wasteful, and besides, I like
> caffeine as much as the next guy. I suppose I could also lengthen the
> early steeps, but I think that would make them worse than they already
> are. (I use a lot of leaf, and quite short steeps early on.)
>
> Any ideas?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> World's first ISO 9003 sig!

MarshalN > writes:
>
> Lewis Perin wrote:
> > There are teas that reward many steeps. And, for me, there are teas
> > that only get interesting *after* many steeps. Chief among these, I
> > find, are many - most! - cooked Pu'ers and border teas (Lubiancha.) I
> > usually find them kind of muddy and afflicted by off notes, for seven,
> > eight, or nine steeps. Then, around the time when the liquor loses
> > its opacity, a corresponding transparency comes over the taste, often
> > with a delightful sweetness reminiscent of dried fruit.
> >
> > I often wonder how it might be possible to change my brewing protocol
> > to reach the taste I prefer more quickly. Obviously, I could just
> > discard the early steeps, but that seems wasteful, and besides, I like
> > caffeine as much as the next guy. I suppose I could also lengthen the
> > early steeps, but I think that would make them worse than they already
> > are. (I use a lot of leaf, and quite short steeps early on.)
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> Sounds like you just need to use less leaves Lew!

Wow, coming from you a recommendation to use less leaf has to be taken
seriously. I can't remember you ever saying that before in any
context. I'll try that and report back.

But in the meantime, since posting my original query, I've tried
lengthening the early steeps with cooked Pu'er. To my surprise, it
hasn't worsened the taste, because shu basically doesn't get harsh no
matter how hard you push it. And it does seem to get me to the
qualities I like in fewer steeps.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Feb 15, 2:34*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> There are teas that reward many steeps. *And, for me, there are teas
> that only get interesting *after* many steeps. *Chief among these, I
> find, are many - most! - cooked Pu'ers and border teas (Lubiancha.) *I
> usually find them kind of muddy and afflicted by off notes, for seven,
> eight, or nine steeps. *Then, around the time when the liquor loses
> its opacity, a corresponding transparency comes over the taste, often
> with a delightful sweetness reminiscent of dried fruit.
>
> I often wonder how it might be possible to change my brewing protocol
> to reach the taste I prefer more quickly. *Obviously, I could just
> discard the early steeps, but that seems wasteful, and besides, I like
> caffeine as much as the next guy. *I suppose I could also lengthen the
> early steeps, but I think that would make them worse than they already
> are. *(I use a lot of leaf, and quite short steeps early on.)
>
> Any ideas?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> World's first ISO 9003 sig!

Try with lesser quantity say half the quantity of tea that you were
using and increase the steeping time, if required. How much increase
in steeping time you are the best judge. And please let us know the
results in details/ or simple confirmation that with this little
change in your brewing protocol,you reached the taste you prefer
more quickly.
S. M.Changoiwala
Gopaldhara tea Company Pvt Ltd
India

MarshalN > writes:

> Sounds like you just need to use less leaves Lew!

OK, here are some notes from tastings I did recently using a sample
kindly sent me by someone who's been known to lurk here. (Thanks!)

I should say a few things first. Steep times are in seconds. BLA =
brewed leaf aroma. SBF = similar but fainter. All steeps were in a
4-oz. gaiwan. "Preheated" means that as soon as the previous steep
was poured off, the new steep began with boiling water, i.e. the
gaiwan was preheated.

What isn't obvious is that my normal brewing parameters, the ones I
was trying to improve upon, are not represented here. I've been in
the habit of using 7g of leaf (like the first setup below) with a lot
of very quick steeps at first (like the last one below.)

OK, here are the notes:

* 2007 Boyou Xian Ting Zhi Xing shu from '05 leaves

** boiling/7g/4 oz/double rinse,5,30,30,60,preheated 90,120,180,300,450,600,900,1200

BLA burnt caramel and mulch. Cup aroma similar but more integrated.
Taste very nice, burnt caramel with matching bitterness and good
houyun from the first steep, which is unusual. 2: Aroma more twiggy
now but still has burnt caramel; taste blunter now, with sweetness
mainly in the houyun. 3: Same. 4: Now woody, more interesting again,
but hardly sweet at all. 5: A little sweetness creeping back into the
main taste, having never left the houyun, plus a little herbality. 6:
Aroma, too, is better now. 7: Maybe houyun has perked up after
declining for a couple of steeps? Main taste still woody, herbal,
fairly sweet, but still no late-steep fruit. 8: Just a hint of dried
fruit now. 9: Arrival of dried fruit; quite nice now, but less
intense than corresponding times with some other shus. 10: Same. 11:
Plummy tianshui is somehow more focused now; possibly the best steep
though the thinnest. 12: Thinner but preserving its character.

** boiling/9g/4 oz/double rinse,5,30,30,60,90,preheated 120,180,300,450,600,900,1200

Pretty much like 7g in first steep, though bitterness is stronger. 2:
Same as 1. 3: Balance shifts toward more sweetness; best so far. 4:
Wood comes in, sweetness recedes. 5: Same as 4. 6: Some sweetness
back now. 7: Still has sweetness, plus herbality now; houyun is back
strong after having receded. 8-9: Same as 7. 10: Some dried fruit
now. 11: Now the dried fruit dominates. 12: Actually somewhat weaker
in the fruit department.

** boiling/4g/4 oz/double rinse,5,5,5,5,5,60,preheated boil:120,180,300,450,600,900

BLA caramely, clean, mulchy. Cup aroma SBF. Taste sweet, clean,
immediate houyun. 2: A cereal note along with the caramel. 3: About
the same, but cereal's gone, houyun's faded somewhat. 4: Same. 5:
Liquor's lost most of its opacity; taste weaker now; houyun gone. 6:
Taste brighter again with more steep time, pretty much the same in
character though; no revival of houyun. 7: Similar but actually a
little weaker. 8: Now just starting to get the dried fruit, plus a
little cereal. 9: Just a bit more fruit now. 10: Actually losing
fruit now, getting blander. 11: Pretty nice tianshui but kind of
bland. 12: Same.

I think I got the best results with 7g and relatively long steeps (the
first trial.) It had the best combination of houyun, late sweetness,
and interesting variations from steep to steep. The 9g/long steep
setup was blunter on the whole. The 4g setup was blander.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Feb 27, 3:16 pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> MarshalN > writes:
> > Sounds like you just need to use less leaves Lew!
>
> OK, here are some notes from tastings I did recently using a sample
> kindly sent me by someone who's been known to lurk here. (Thanks!)
>
> I should say a few things first. Steep times are in seconds. BLA =
> brewed leaf aroma. SBF = similar but fainter. All steeps were in a
> 4-oz. gaiwan. "Preheated" means that as soon as the previous steep
> was poured off, the new steep began with boiling water, i.e. the
> gaiwan was preheated.
>
> What isn't obvious is that my normal brewing parameters, the ones I
> was trying to improve upon, are not represented here. I've been in
> the habit of using 7g of leaf (like the first setup below) with a lot
> of very quick steeps at first (like the last one below.)
>
> OK, here are the notes:
>
> * 2007 Boyou Xian Ting Zhi Xing shu from '05 leaves
>
> ** boiling/7g/4 oz/double rinse,5,30,30,60,preheated 90,120,180,300,450,600,900,1200
>
> BLA burnt caramel and mulch. Cup aroma similar but more integrated.
> Taste very nice, burnt caramel with matching bitterness and good
> houyun from the first steep, which is unusual. 2: Aroma more twiggy
> now but still has burnt caramel; taste blunter now, with sweetness
> mainly in the houyun. 3: Same. 4: Now woody, more interesting again,
> but hardly sweet at all. 5: A little sweetness creeping back into the
> main taste, having never left the houyun, plus a little herbality. 6:
> Aroma, too, is better now. 7: Maybe houyun has perked up after
> declining for a couple of steeps? Main taste still woody, herbal,
> fairly sweet, but still no late-steep fruit. 8: Just a hint of dried
> fruit now. 9: Arrival of dried fruit; quite nice now, but less
> intense than corresponding times with some other shus. 10: Same. 11:
> Plummy tianshui is somehow more focused now; possibly the best steep
> though the thinnest. 12: Thinner but preserving its character.
>
> ** boiling/9g/4 oz/double rinse,5,30,30,60,90,preheated 120,180,300,450,600,900,1200
>
> Pretty much like 7g in first steep, though bitterness is stronger. 2:
> Same as 1. 3: Balance shifts toward more sweetness; best so far. 4:
> Wood comes in, sweetness recedes. 5: Same as 4. 6: Some sweetness
> back now. 7: Still has sweetness, plus herbality now; houyun is back
> strong after having receded. 8-9: Same as 7. 10: Some dried fruit
> now. 11: Now the dried fruit dominates. 12: Actually somewhat weaker
> in the fruit department.
>
> ** boiling/4g/4 oz/double rinse,5,5,5,5,5,60,preheated boil:120,180,300,450,600,900
>
> BLA caramely, clean, mulchy. Cup aroma SBF. Taste sweet, clean,
> immediate houyun. 2: A cereal note along with the caramel. 3: About
> the same, but cereal's gone, houyun's faded somewhat. 4: Same. 5:
> Liquor's lost most of its opacity; taste weaker now; houyun gone. 6:
> Taste brighter again with more steep time, pretty much the same in
> character though; no revival of houyun. 7: Similar but actually a
> little weaker. 8: Now just starting to get the dried fruit, plus a
> little cereal. 9: Just a bit more fruit now. 10: Actually losing
> fruit now, getting blander. 11: Pretty nice tianshui but kind of
> bland. 12: Same.
>
> I think I got the best results with 7g and relatively long steeps (the
> first trial.) It had the best combination of houyun, late sweetness,
> and interesting variations from steep to steep. The 9g/long steep
> setup was blunter on the whole. The 4g setup was blander.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /

Hey Lew,

Thanks for sharing and conducting the 'speriment... and I agree with
your findings as that pretty much sums up my experience, however, I do
tend to find I hit the flavors I'm looking for about 1 to 2 steeps
sooner with less leaf even though your notes differ. Maybe it is just
the less intense flavor that I equate with the later steeps coming
sooner with less leaf, I'll have to perform a similar test and see
what I find.

I think on the whole I am frugal with my leaf as I came from a fairly
poor background and have a built in instinct to stretch it as far as
possible, so maybe I am just more tolerant of the "blander" taste. I
do know that sometimes when I have someone prepare me gong fu tea I
find it a bit too strong and different than what I would have
prepared. Again not that they are "wrong" or I am "right" just my
personal (conditioned?) taste and preference I guess.

- Dominic